User talk:BrownHairedGirl/Archive/Archive 032

DYK for Lord Edward Thynne
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:59, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Songs About categories.
Now that songs about rain category has been closed I am just about to start on a mass nomination of all the "songs about" categories. I am not sure (at the moment) whether songs about a place should be included. As you offered to help, here I am asking for help and guidance. Should there should be a preliminary public discussion elsewhere first. Some of my notes are updated at User:Richhoncho/Songs by theme --Richhoncho (talk) 09:45, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Richhoncho
 * Thanks for the message.
 * As you may be aware, this is part of a huge category tree under Category:Works by discipline. It includes books, songs, films etc ... and it is an ugly hybrid of academic disciplines, themes, settings and more.
 * I suggest starting with an RFC to try to get an outline agreement on some principles. Maybe at WT:CAT? -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:09, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I am not sure I would know how to start that discussion and way beyond my knowledge scope. "Works About" is far too large to deal with in one swoop, done that way either the baby gets thrown out with the bathwater, or a load of rubbish is kept because some categories are valid.  I note Category:Films about Disney contains 5 members who should be there (whether the cat name is good is another question). Other than songs, I cannot I can't think of any other cultural field where a word is used solely as simile, metaphor or other and still gets categorized because of that word. --Richhoncho (talk) 10:32, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
 * You make a good case for restricting the discussion to songs, and that would be a much simpler discussion. I guess that's the way to go. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:46, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

May 2014
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 * Edward Boyle]] | after=William George Boyle | years=1854&amp;ndash; Frome by-election, 1856|1856}}
 * Thanks. Now fixed. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:26, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

"This triggered another by-election, at which Nicoll was an successful candidate. by 58 votes to Nicoll's 157."

Please could you clarify what that means. Ehrenkater (talk) 15:42, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for spotting that: a copy-editing and proof-reading failure. Now fixed: at the Frome by-election, 1856 (which I am writing now), Nicoll won 157 votes to the winner's 158. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:49, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

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 * Thanks. Now fixed. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:35, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

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 * Vanity Fair 23 October 1880.jpg|thumb|right| "The O'Donoghue" as caricatured by Spy Leslie Ward in Vanity Fair, October 1880 ]]

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 * s-aft| after = William Caulfeild | after2=[[John Bagwell (1715–

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 * politician)]] (1833–1912), MP for [South Longford (UK Parliament constituency)|South Longford] 1892–1907

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 * | years = 1810 &amp;ndash; 1812
 * Thanks. Now fixed. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:19, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

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 * {Ireland-peer-stub}

Category:Irish Sinn Féin politicians
Category:Irish Sinn Féin politicians, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:48, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Request for comment
Hello there, a proposal regarding pre-adminship review has been raised at Village pump by. Your comments here is very much appreciated. Many thanks. Jim Carter through MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:46, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

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Example of problematic moves by nom-admins
Category:Irish republicans imprisoned on charges of alleged terrorism by the United Kingdom. The bot will likely come along shortly and move the rest. You may want to bring this to Jacks attention as exactly the sort of thing we want to avoid, yet having the ability with one click to do so makes users think its ok. Perhaps to gain quick consensus we could formulate an entry to the categorization guidelines that says 'only admins can move categories'? (Although i bet it already exists?)-Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 21:40, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Obi-Wan Kenobi
 * Thanks for pointing that out. Exactly the sort of contentious move which should be discussed first.
 * I have reverted the move move, with a "take it to CFD" note.
 * I would suggest that the guidelines simply say that categories should be moved only after reaching a consensus at WP:CFD or WP:CFD/S. Howe does that sound? -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:35, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
 * perfect. Can you make that change? It certainly represents longstanding consensus.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 22:43, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Which guideline? -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:45, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
 * WP:CAT.

John Douglas of Broughton
The article dates are century out. He was MP for Peebleshire, but 1722 - 1732, when he died. Shipsview (talk) 18:23, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Ok, good catch. That checks out at both Rayment and HistOfParl. I have updated the categories etc. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:50, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Karrine Steffans

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Karrine_Steffans&diff=prev&oldid=611059275

hello there, I had to take down two of your stories from 10 December 2013 - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Karrine_Steffans&diff=585481289&oldid=585411129 - I was speculating as to why you wrote them, did you have wp:rs writing that she was African American? if so please link a dink me to them, ta Mosfetfaser (talk) 14:49, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
 * How about checking the edit which I did. She was already categorised as African American. I just replaced Category:African-American actors→Category:African-American actresses. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:20, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
 * it does not matter now I have taken it down Mosfetfaser (talk) 15:24, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, it would be nice to check who had done something before you ask them why they did it. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:55, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
 * looked like you - you did not remove the violating identification - in fact - you confirmed it - forget about it - I have sorted it now - Mosfetfaser (talk) 17:00, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Stop being an idiot. Nothing was "violated".
 * Discussion closed. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:09, 1 June 2014 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Category:California geography-related lists
Category:California geography-related lists, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Ibadibam (talk) 00:37, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Michael McIntyre (politician)
Please see my comment. Bearian (talk) 22:41, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Two unsuccessful candidacies, 8 years apart, doesn't look to me like a perennial candidate. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:04, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Ok, that's a fair look. Bearian (talk) 15:41, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Birth-death parentheticals
According to MOS:YEAR, birth-death parentheticals are given in full not abbreviated to two numerals. See WP:DATERANGE. DrKiernan (talk) 10:03, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks! You are right, so I will start reverting myself. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:06, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Herveys
Seen your fine work on the Herveys and I was proposing to DYK Fenton Hervey under joint names. OK? Would you help? Victuallers (talk) 16:01, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Victuallers
 * Did you mean Felton Hervey? You have done great work expanding that article from my rather poor start.
 * Feel free to DYK it, tho I'm not really sure that I deserve any credit. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:05, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Oops, (cant type) yes ... and "of course"... you created the article.... and there is still stuff to say I think. Victuallers (talk) 16:12, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

CFD review
FYI, Deletion review/Log/2014 June 2. Liz Read! Talk! 16:07, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Liz. I will add my tuppenceworth there. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:31, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Irish peers
Hi BHG. I noticed your edit to the sequence boxes of Lawrence Parsons, 2nd Earl of Rosse and as I had created Postmasters General of Ireland wondered if those appointees should have a box too. I have very slowly been working on a draft of Charles Coote, 1st Earl of Bellomont and perhaps he needs some boxes too. Any help appreciated in that way, either directly or guideance or other material I could use. Thanks ww2censor (talk) 22:40, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi ww2censor
 * Long time no talk. Hope you well.
 * I think that for a small and discrete such as that, a WP:NAVBOX would work rather well. I will doodle one now.
 * And I will have a go at the Charles Coote, 1st Earl of Bellomont. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:52, 22 May 2014 (UTC)


 * That was quick. Hello again our paths are not crossing too often these days! Trying to finish work, especially to get a functioning pool for the summer, on our 300 year old farmhouse in SW France. I presume this book is by his son as he died in 1800 and this is 1801. ww2censor (talk) 22:56, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually just to be picky it is Postmasters General of Ireland, so I would not be in favour of the move you made, because there were always two Irish PMGs simultaneously, never just one as in Postmaster General of the United Kingdom for most of the time. I think that justifies the plural version like this source. ww2censor (talk) 23:06, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry! Will move it back again. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:09, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

OK, I have added a few categories and a succession box to your draft of Charles Coote, 1st Earl of Bellomont ... an also added Postmasters General of Ireland. Hope that helps. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:39, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. If you know of any sources that would be useful let me know. Thanks. ww2censor (talk) 11:16, 23 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I've been searching for reliable sources for Charles Coote's verious nobility titles with dates but don't seem to find anything good. Debrette's seem to have quite a bit on his grandfather (?) of the same name. Any ideas, as you seem to have knowledge of this type of topic. ww2censor (talk) 09:12, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm very sorry to take so long to get back to you.
 * My interest is in elected politicians rather than peers, but as you know there is huge overlap until the early 20th century, so I have had to familiarise myself a bit.  My main source has been Leigh Rayment, whose work on the Irish, English, British and UKanian Houses of Commons is of extraordinarily high quality, and his work on peers seems pretty good too.  I lack the resources to cross-check a lot of the peerage stuff, but when I can do checks, the errors are v v v rare.
 * In this case, I couldn't reconcile what you had written so far with what I found elsewhere ... but nor did I find any clear answers elsewhere. So I'm afraid that the best I can do is to point you towards WT:PEER, where there are some folks with great expertise and with access to good sources.
 * Sorry I couldn't do better. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:00, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
 * There was no problem timewise but thanks. In some instances I see Leigh Rayment's source tagged as "self published" and "better source needed", such as Lawrence Parsons, 2nd Earl of Rosse and Lord Henry FitzGerald. What's your opinion on that? I'll try to get some answers at WT:PEER. Thanks. ww2censor (talk) 21:41, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Rayment and its sublings Rayment-hc and Rayment-bt have all been tagged that way. It's one of those unfortunate consequences of a rules-based approach :(
 * Leigh Rayment's work is indeed self-published, so it fails WP:SELFPUB. Techncially correct.
 * In practice, Rayment's standards of scholarship are very high, and his level of accuracy is brilliant; I have actually confirmed more errors in the Oxford DNB than in Rayment's work. Meanwhile, Burke's Peerage and Burke's Landed Gentry, long-standing publication which changed hands several times, have had long-standing quality problems. Oscar Wilde once described Burke's Peerage as "the best thing the English have done in fiction", and there are periodic spats on Wikipedia where an enthusiastic editor sets to work with Burke's to create a slew of well-intentioned nonsense.  Nonetheless, Burke's has the formal shape of a reliable source; it just happens to be crap.
 * It pains me to see Rayment's work mischaracterised in this way. Some day I should try to get those labels removed, but for now that's how it is :(
 * Good luck at WT:PEER. There used to be some very good editors there, but I am not sure if they  are still active. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:54, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 5
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 * Thank you, DPL bot. All now fixed. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:15, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Being pedantic
In an effort to prove myself pedantic I have to mention that you supply some evidence on yourself being inclined to be pedantic with the first red-linked category of your user page. And then you seem to not be "doing the right thing" with the second red-linked and with an absurdly long name category. Nxavar (talk) 10:28, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Nxavar, it is known as irony. I have found over many decades that irony is perplexing to those unfortunate people isolated on the western side of the Atlantic, so if there was a way of labelling those non-categories as ironic (as with Humorous essay), I would do so. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:33, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Or, self-sarcasm. The message had a humourous intent. It was not intended to be critical. However, I admit that I didn't get the irony. Nxavar (talk) 11:40, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Template:Country data South Korea Request
Hi, you made some changes in  Template:Country data South Korea  per my request few month ago. now another user moved South Korea national field hockey team to South Korea men's national field hockey team and now it goes to disambiguation page of South Korea national field hockey team. for avoiding this you just have to remove those lines from KOR template. thanks in advance. Mohsen1248 (talk) 00:55, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Mohsen1248
 * I think that this has done it. Please can you confirm that everything now works as you intend?  -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 08:11, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, it works now, one more thing, I have problem with this, it goes to Malaysia national field hockey team, I don't know how we can fix it, but one solution is removing the same line from Malaya template Template:Country data Malaya and then I can redirect Malaya men's national field hockey team to Malaysia men's national field hockey team. Mohsen1248 (talk) 14:39, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Reference Errors on 9 June
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I really need to figure out a way to deal with people who any me
PBP has really annoyed me. He has made three attempts to ban me in one form or other. He has made lots of attempts to delete articles I started. Maybe I should not care so much, but I put a lot of work in to creating those articles, and it bothers me. What bothers me more is he tried to redirect out of existence with no discussion one article I created, and tried to Prod Delete as having no sources an aritcle I created that at the time had 4 sources. I have found his choice of words to be insulting, bigotted and inflamatory. I am not sure he means them to come off the way they do, but when he says on a article "delete because there are no none LDS sources", it comes off as an attempt to say that Latter-day Saints are not acceptable creators of sources, and by definition should be defined as unreliable sources. The fact that he has claimed that all LDS sources are "dubious" now makes me think that this was actually his intention all along. I really have tried to avoid conflict with him. That is why I brought up what I felt was an unjustified attempt to delete by a less than full discussion method an article that I had created not to him but to another editor. I knew I was too frustrated to talk with him directly, and I knew he was too unwilling to listen to make any headway. However his response has been to redouble his deletion efforts, and to leave them specifically focused on LDS articles. I really find his wording to be higly insulting, and his tendency to try to counter and undermine any vote that is against his view frustrating. I probably have let this exscalte too much, but his refusal to let me make comments on my own talk page in peace is at times very frustrating.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:07, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Links, diffs?
 * Or am I supposed to trawl through your contribs to trace what has been happening? -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:09, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * The George B. Handley page is probably ground zero. I am not very good at providing diffs. Part of the debate has been going on on my page. Let me see what I can find.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:39, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * additionally much of the most heated discussion has occured on my page and Obi-wan Kenobi's talk page. The article that went through an attempted redirect deltion, which to was an extremely back-handed method, was Larry Y. Wilson. However, to me the most objectionable statements were what bordered on attack language in the deltion attempt on the article on Patricia T. Holland.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:51, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * That insulting screed was this "Doesn't appear to be anything non-LDS about her; and her only claim to notability is that she was married to the head honcho at BYU. PROD declined by creator, claiming that "Being a member of the Young Women General Presidency makes her notable". Sorry, it doesn't, there is no notability guideline that says that; there isn't even an article on the Young Women General Presidency. Having references that aren't LDS-related make something notable." Let's see, the opening phrase can easily be read "People who are only LDS should not be included in Wikipedia". Alternately "Sources must not be all written by Latter-day Saints." PBP has never been 100% clear what he means by LDS sources, and his claim that they are "dubious" makes me think he wants to be unclear to make it easier to attack them. The "head honcho" phrasing was just plain rude, and in the case of Mrs. Holland, ignored the fact that she was a very present and proactive first lady to BYU. She would give speeches to the whole campus assembled on a regualr basis, which made her more involved in the functional life of the students than many faculty were. Since we did prove that Holland is a notable author, I think this whole thing may point why there are exemption to the GNG. Lastly, but hardly leastly, PBP's combative and antagonistic attitude has made it so we have avoided the real questions. The wife of the president of the US is notable for being such. What other positions are of such importance that the spouse of the holder of that position is notable? This is a question that should be asked, but it is avoided by the blanket shouts of "notability is not inherited", which ignores the fact that in many cases spouses of famous people are notable for being such. The fact of the matter is I have created articles on presidents of I beleive it was the University of Kansas with only U of Kansas sources, and no one has ever questioned that, so I think PBP's interpetation of what is an "independent" source is flawed, and I find his combative and disrespectful attitude to be off putting. The fact that he does not get that Jeffrey R. Holland is way more notable as an LDS apostle than as president of BYU suggests to me he does not understand the territory. This is at heart why people ever complain about the demographics of wikipedia editors, because you want editors who understand the territory. I would not even go as far as to say that editors need to be part of a given demographic to understand it and the issues involved, but when people try to edit while clearly not understanding the reality of the demographics involved, it is very off putting. OK, maybe I am complaining way too much, but after PBP has tried on at least three occasions to impose very broad bans on me, including one to stop all "editing related to women", which evidently would have if imposed at the right time stopped me from removing his PROD delete on Mrs. Holland, I find his whole methods and appraoch off putting. I know he does not mean to sound as offensive as he does, but he does come off as very, very offensive in the way he attacks LDS sources, and I wish people would point this out to him, and try to get him to tone down the attack nature of his language.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:04, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Talk page stalker note: Articles for deletion/Patricia T. Holland was back in late 2012. I just commented with Keep vote at Articles for deletion/Larry Y. Wilson which is currently active. -- do  ncr  am  02:18, 10 June 2014 (UTC)


 * (Stalking) It is probably better to take this to the appropriate Admin board. Dispute resolution may be appropriate, but take a look and decide which is the most apposite. I personally don't think posting highly detailed complaints on individual ed's talk pages is the most efficient way to get these things resolved. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 02:21, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

JPL. having read all the above ... I really think that the most important thing to be done here is for you to read up in the whole concept of WP:Notability, esp the WP:GNG. Seriously, you seem to have a very poor understanding of it.

If you choose to get upset because an editor refers to the husband of a biographical subject with as mild a comment as "head honcho", then you are going to get upset a lot. I don't see anything derogatory about that; it's just a bit of flippancy. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:37, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

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Long time no communicate!
On my talk page:

Irish Rivers

Hello Sarah777. Thanks for taking an interest in my edits on the assessments of Irish Rivers. In the summaries you mentionagreed Wikiproject standards for Start articles. In the past I have looked in vain for any definitive rules about when an article becomes a Start, I use the Did You Know length rule which is 1500 chars or about 10 sentences. The River Goulpage only has five sentences, which is why I marked it as a stub. If you have any specific rule that you can direct me too, that would be useful. (I will watch here for any reply).--Jokulhlaup (talk) 17:11, 12 June 2014 (UTC)


 * If an article has a valid infobox, appropriate photo and a basic introduction than we regard it as a "start". I changed only the IrlProgect tags, I did not interfere with the "rivers" assessment. For further information on the Stub v Start criteria for IrlProject articles I'd refer you to User:BrownHairedGirl whose whose guidance I have been following.Sarah777 (talk) 22:22, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

May need your input here.....

Regards Sarah777 (talk) 22:29, 13 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi Sarah777
 * Long time indeed, and nice to hear from you. I will reply on your talk page. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:26, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Felton Hervey
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 16:02, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Default sort
I overlooked it, so did Waacstats, but Bgwhite pointed it, you had added a wrong default sort.  Occult Zone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 10:16, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi OccultZone
 * Thanks for fixing that. I had used another stub as the basis for that one, and got distracted before finishing it. The default sort was indeed wrong, and when I looked again I see that so were the birth and death categories.
 * All fixed now, and thanks again. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:36, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Edward Wells (MP)
Materialscientist (talk) 05:59, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Reference Errors on 17 June
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Query re Seanad membership
A chara I'm interested to know about the Seanad in early days ... Particularly the women. It uses the words 'elected ' and 'appointed/reappointed' in Wiki. Do you know if there were actual elections from the start and also who would have appointed the women from the beginning. Particularly Eileen Costello Looking forward to your reply Áine — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.76.29.237 (talk) 12:09, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Aine
 * There have been two bodies called the Seanad:


 * 1) The Seanad Éireann (Irish Free State) (1922–36). Its members were initially appointed, and then directly elected
 * 2) Seanad Éireann, established in 1926. Eleven senators appointed by the Taoiseach, the rest elected by a variety of means.

The articles explain more. Hope this helps! -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:16, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

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 * All now fixed. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 08:57, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Incomplete DYK nomination
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June 2014
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 * * Sir Richard Newdigate, 1st Baronet 1602–1678, MP for Tamworth 1660

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 * * Bussy Mansel, 4th Baron Mansel died 1750, Welsh peer, MP for Cardiff 1727–34, for Glamorganshire 1737–45

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 * married an Irish lady of fortune, Judith Tichborne (d. 1749), daughter of Sir Benjamin Tichborne younger brother of Sir Henry Tichborne, 1st Baron Ferrard, (Irish cr. 1715) and Elizabeth Gibbs.
 * s-bef | before = Thomas Bere

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 * Baronet|Sir James Johnstone, 4th Baronet]] (1726–1794), the wealthy lawyer and politician William later Sir William Pulteney, 5th Baronet (1729–1805), and the politician and Royal Navy

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 * Burghs]]||u||William Dalrymple||John Dalrymple||Chose to sit for Wigtownshire

John Baring (1730-1816)
Late yesterday, I made two changes to the John Baring (1730-1816) article. The first was to link "Larkbeare" to an article in nl:Wikipedia on that small Devon village. The second was to remove the "II" from the article title.

Looking at the article history today, I see that in my first edit I apparently made very extensive changes, mostly deletions. I can believe that I may have made deletions through incompetence; but I am also credited with adding material, e.g. "son of clothier", which I am sure I could not have added.

As you also worked on the article yesterday, and are an admin, I am hoping you may be able to understand, and if appropriate reverse, the changes which have been credited to me. Maproom (talk) 07:45, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Maproom
 * Mistakes happen!
 * The simplest way out is to revert your edit, which I have done. That restores all the deleted material. Feel free to edit the article again to add other the other material.
 * Note that I have moved the page to John Baring (1730–1816), using an endash for the date range.


 * Good luck. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 07:59, 25 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you for repairing the damage. Thank you also for your non-judgmental "Mistakes happen!" Maproom (talk) 10:22, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

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 * All now fixed. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:00, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

DYK nomination of James Balfour (died 1845)
Hello! Your submission of James Balfour (died 1845) at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! I am One of Many (talk) 21:55, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

DYK nomination of James Blair (MP)
Hello! Your submission of James Blair (MP) at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! czar ♔   03:25, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Let It Go (Disney song)
A person called chasewc91 claimed there had been a consensus before I joined the discussion "Idina Menzel's single. However  there is no one there who agrees with him. Still he abruptly edits the infobox to the form he likes. Could you please tell me if his claim is valid? (P.S. Quenhitran, one of the users who discussed with him prior to me, agrees with him that the claim is false.) Thanks.Forbidden User (talk) 08:54, 28 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi Forbidden User
 * First point is that it seems that an edit war may be developing between you and chasewc91. If that continues, then both of you risk being blocked. Either of you can stop it, and I suggest you do so.
 * The dispute appears to be about whether to use infobox single or infobox song. There has been at least one case recently at WP:ARBCOM about infoboxes, and you may find that special sanctions apply to them.  So best to act very cautiously, and remember that there is no deadline: it needs to be right, but it dosen't need to be right right now :)
 * I suggest an WP:RFC to resolve this. Ideally, you and chase should work together to develop a neutral summary of the dispute. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:36, 28 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks. By the way, there is an inactive discussion about whether to retain Polling is not a substitute for discussion as a guideline at its talk page. When will it be closed?Forbidden User (talk) 13:45, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
 * If you think it needs to be closed, you can list it at WP:AN/RFC. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:47, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Hey there
In case you are interested in this CFD (Massacres of men). I voted to delete and cited your long experience with the use of subjective terminology in categories dating back years now, which, btw, we have usually won the debates. So, take a look, if you like. Yours, Quis separabit?  00:14, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi RMS, thanks for the notification.
 * I don't have time to weigh on that topic at the length it deserves, so I will probably give it a miss.
 * FWIW, my initial reaction is there a bundle of inter-related complexities in that discussion, and that good points are being made on both sides. You make a good point about the subjectivity of the term "massacre", which is a highly-loaded word.  (Is it in WP:WTA? If not, it should be.) However, I think that an even more critical point is whether it is viable to try to enforce a distinction between massacres of men and massacres targetted at men because of their gender.  Without that distinction, the category is useless; but unless a boundary can be reliably and objectively determined, then we are back in the old problem of subjective categorisation.  As you and I have repeatedly argued, that's a place to be avoided.
 * However, I do think it is important that new angles of scholarship, such as research into gendered violence, are included in Wikipedia. Doing so is difficult, because definitions remain fluid and contested (and often highly politicised), and in those situations lists are a much better device, because they facilitate better referencing and explanation of any inclusion. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:13, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * OK, Thanks for the insight. I always like learning new things, or at least new ways of looking at things, from you. Quis separabit?  01:17, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Rms, and thanks for participating, and thanks BHG for your thoughts above. Just a few thoughts - 1) We have a whole tree, and a Massacre article, I don't think ultimately that massacre is that subjective, or at least it hasn't prevented us from having oodles of massacre categories, so using that word as a reason to delete this one category isn't quite fair, IMHO. 2) As to BHG's point, I agree, it is important to not just have massacres where men were killed. Instead, as the inclusion criteria states, this is for massacres where men and boys are explicitly separated from the women prior to being killed - thus their gender is the main determining factor, and the literature calls this gender-based violence. The literature also calls these incidents sex-selective massacres or gendercides, and if you search for that term you will find a number of sources that discuss this and the particular risk men are exposed to in conflict zones (plenty of sources on the talk page of the category). There is even a book published on this subject specifically. It's actually rather rare to have a sex-selective massacre of women, on the other hand, and amongst all massacres that I've looked through in the wiki, most of them aren't sex-selective, so at least in our coverage it's a tiny minority that fit in this category. I only found around 20 instances that fit the category for now, and that have the distinctive trait of men and boys being separated from the women and then massacred, many of them are well-known instances, and defined as such in the lede (e.g. The massacre of X was the killing of the entire male population of village Y). It was a common technique in the Kosovo mess, and we're now seeing it used by Boko Haram (although, sometimes they just kill everyone). Anyway, if you do choose to weigh in would love your thoughts BHG, as you know I always like your input, even when we disagree :)--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 01:44, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Obi, and thanks for your kind words. You give good debate, and I too enjoy those debates, whether or not we are on the same side.
 * Problem is, I am up to my neck in content. I hadn't been doing enough content creation recently, so I have been busy trying to create stubs on British MPs again.  Unfortunately, too many of what I think are gonna be obscure lobby-fodder turn out to be rather more complex characters, with a lot more to say than born elected, died.
 * For example, one turned out to be an unscrupulously successful nabob who bribed his way into Parliament.  Another turned to be a nabob who founded a minor dynasty, and had a brother who was an mildly interesting B-grade architect.  Another one loomed up into prominence as a record-holding state-subsidised slave-owner, and the latest turns out to be a noted Edwardian imperialist with some unstereotypical ideas.
 * Damn these people for having such interesting lives ;)
 * Gotta wrap that latest one up before my browser explodes again from too many open tabs, and then maybe I'll weigh in at CFD :) -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:24, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

DYK for James Blair (MP)
Gatoclass (talk) 08:02, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Eustace Balfour
Hello! Your submission of Eustace Balfour at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yakikaki (talk) 09:42, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

400,000 edits!
I know editcountitis is so 2005, but still, this is your 400,000th edit. Which either means a lack of life or commitment to the project. :P Sceptre (talk) 05:04, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Sceptre!
 * I think I will pass on which of the 2 options this is :)
 * But look at which page was changed in that 400,000th edit. Eek! -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:04, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * A large star-shaped barn to you. Victuallers (talk) 16:19, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Victuallers. That's very kind.
 * My existing barn has an infirm roof, so I can make good use of the new one :) -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:23, 29 June 2014 (UTC)


 * 400K?! Wow, I was excited that I was closing in on 50k. Chillum (Need help? Ask me) 16:23, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

DYK for James Balfour (died 1845)
Gatoclass (talk) 19:28, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

I love you!
I am not sure what prompted that (and it did make me think a little of this) ... but thank you, LZNQBD. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:48, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Youtube is filtered in my country. I can't see this video.LZNQBD (talk) 06:45, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

I love u too cheater Sablondee (talk) 20:28, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Alexander Mackay (British Army officer)
— Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:12, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

RPP - Urgent Request
Battleground (2014) is being heavily vandalized. There's an WP:RPP already, but we can barely keep up with the vandalism. Thought I'd ask an admin who's currently online to step in. Thank you. EvergreenFir (talk) 06:01, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Fully protected for 1 week. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 06:09, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

A brownie for you!

 * Thanks, EvergreenFir! It will make a tasty addition to my breakfast :) -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 06:10, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * If you have a chance, WWE Battleground could use a PP was well. EvergreenFir (talk) 06:31, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Done, in these 2 edits. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 06:35, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks again! EvergreenFir (talk) 06:44, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Hello! Do you think you could also give these 3 pages permanent semi-protection? :) They are always getting vandalized and it really irritates me. List of current champions in WWE, WWE World Heavyweight Championship, and List of WWE World Heavyweight Champions These pages have needed protection for a long time. FlawlessViper (talk) 10:24, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi FlawlessViper
 * I am happy to respond quickly to a request here if the situation is urgent, as it was with Battleground (2014).
 * However, in other cases I prefer that pages get listed at WP:RFPP, where the request can be more widely scrutinised.
 * The problem you cite here is non-urgent, so WP:RFPP is the place to go. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:28, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Talkback
I don't know if you are watching my talk page. ww2censor (talk) 14:57, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the talkback, ww2c. These days I tend to rely on WP:PINGs to notify me of conversations, rather than the watchlist, so I hadn't spotted your reply on your talk.
 * I have replied there. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:06, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I'll have to start pinningggggg! ww2censor (talk) 15:19, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Please help
Please have a look at this and help if possible, I have no idea who to turn to with this so I'm trying to contact more experienced Wikipedians.

--Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 22:51, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your message, Samotny Wędrowiec.
 * I read it, but read no further. I am sure than you mean well, and what you have written may be a great summary of the situation; I will reserve judgement on that.  But unless you provide more specific examples of what you think is going wrong, and who exactly you think are this "Polish Wiki mafia" are, then it's really just a rant.  That is  very strong language to use about other editors, and I hope that you have evidence to justify it.
 * May I suggest that you take the time to write an explanation of what has been happening, with less rhetoric and name-calling and more specific examples? -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:08, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for replying and sorry for being so vague. I have previously put all of my effort into pushing for positive change, but my edits just kept getting reverted and everyone else seemed to ignore it so I am very tired of it all. The vast majority of those reverts were carried out on the basis of someone's point of view rather than actual guidelines (most of the time those who kept reverting my edits refused to take part in discussion and often left no reason for reverting either).


 * If you look at Talk:Poland, you will see that at first there is clear consensus in the discussion and only one person disagrees, providing almost no arguments in comparison to my input. The discussion carries on for longer than a month, it mostly consists of my points for making the changes. At some point this part of the talk page was vandalized, twice I believe. Whenever I tried to edit the actual page for Poland, even with the consensus at the talk page, the same individuals as before kept reverting it. After this continued harassment and the seemingly blind eye of the admins to these events, I lost patience and for the first time used offensive language on Wikipedia and insulted others. It was a conscious yet impulsive decision on my part as I wanted to be banned at that time, having had enough of it all. Seeing that my post at the discussion was not enough, I vandalized several pages and acted in a similar manner at the Polish Wikipedia. This is why I was banned. After some time away from editing, I appealed and was unbanned as the admins/moderators seemed to understand.


 * More recently I put my effort into this: Geography_of_Poland and then changed the article of Poland to say that it is in Eastern or Central Europe, linking this to the subsection of the geography article that I wrote. I didn't post about this change at the talk page, since at this point I have enough experience to know that it makes no difference whatsoever - even when others agree with you. My edits have already been reverted, but thankfully they have not yet removed Geography_of_Poland. Once again, sorry for being so vague, but the evidence is all there in the edit history for the Poland article and its talk page. All it takes is for someone to read it. This is why I went straight for the admins this time. The only way to really understand my frustration with this would be by reading Talk:Poland, but I know that no one has the time or will to do this. This is why everyone I've tried to contact about this just treats me like some kind of eccentric. As for those who keep edit warring, I remember only Powertranz and Xx236, but there were more. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a history of warnings/bans too. Anyway, I believe the reaction to my recent edit to link the new subsection at Geography of Poland to the Poland article is at least enough to prove there must be some truth to what I recently posted at Talk:Poland, even if it won't help you understand my behaviour.


 * --Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 00:02, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

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Malicious Activity
I see that you have edited my page before, Thank You! I also see that you have the option to ban IP Address's. There seems to be someone who over the years has continued to maliciously edited my page. Their IP Address has been banned before. Whenever they do get a new address they start again. Will you please block their new IP 74.70.123.60 Thank You in advance. Michael — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krellman (talk • contribs) 17:15, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Krellman, when you write "my page" I read that as meaning either User:Krellman or User talk:Krellman. However, User:Krellman does not exist, and the most recent edit to User talk:Krellman was by you, in January 2010.
 * I see that has performed only 2 edits, both in March 2013 to the page Michael Zarnock, both of which were promptly promptly reverted. Warnings were left at User talk:74.70.123.60.
 * There is no reason to block an IP in this situation. And why do you claim that Michael Zarnock is your page? -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:26, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. I reference "Michael Zarnock" as "My Page" because the Krellman Group is owned by Michael Zarnock and we here at Krellman do the editing. Krellman is our log-in name and is how we go about editing that page and other social media. If we see any other name or bot, then we know to look into it. This person (we do have their name and physical address) has indeed edited the page before. We have their past IP address's that have also been banned. We just corrected what he changed today and then updated small things on the page. He edited the page (03:06, 9 June 2014‎ 74.70.101.117) You may contact us at KrellmanGroup@aol.com if you have any further questions. Thank you again! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krellman (talk • contribs) 20:56, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Hmm.
 * Krellman, there are a bundle of problems here. They seem to arise from your misunderstanding of what Wikipedia is. It is not a social media platform, it is an encyclopedia.  That means that our rules are very different to those of Facebook, Twitter, etc.
 * Firstly, role accounts, or accounts shared by multiple people, are forbidden. Since you have confirmed that this is a role account, I will block it.
 * Secondly, you should not edit Wikipedia in your own interests or in the interests of your external relationships. You have been doing just that.
 * And thirdly, your comments here make it very plan that you think you WP:OWN the article Michael Zarnock. Wrong you don't.
 * For advice of how you should approach any concerns you may have about Wikiedia' coverage of topics in which you have a stake, see WP:COIADVICE. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 21:18, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Edwin Andrews Air Base
Seeking some expert advice. This may be considered a copyvio of FN #1, from globalsecurity.org. Would you please take a quick look? Hope UK summer is treating you well ;) Buckshot06 (talk) 05:41, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Buckshot06
 * I wouldn't consider myself an expert on this, but I had a look anyway.
 * Yes, whole sentences are lifted directly from the globalsecurity.org page. The Duplication detector report confirms this.
 * I have tagged the article as a copyvvio, and listed it at WP:CP, with a notification to the editor who added the copied material.
 * I see that the bot had already identified the problem, but that the bot's warning notice was removed in an edit which included a partial rewrite. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:48, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thank you, OccultZone.
 * That's very kind of you, and delightfully colourful. My favourite barnstar so far :) -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:39, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
 * 400K, that's...awesome.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  14:22, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Or crazy :) -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:28, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

British Newspapers Archive
Hey BrownHairedGirl: I saw some recent edits like this one on recent changes, and thought that you would be a really good candidate for access to the British Newspaper Archive via the WP:The Wikipedia Library. I think it would be great for fleshing out a number of those 18th and 19th century bio articles. If you would like access, go ahead and sign up at WP:BNA, Sadads (talk) 16:21, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Sadads
 * Thank you very much for the kind offer.
 * As it happens, I already have access to the British Newspaper Archive through a library. I haven't made much use of it, because when I tried it on a long shot I found the interface a bit messy, and didn't put in the time to learning it.
 * Your offer prompts me to have another go one of these days. If perchance you feel like using it yourself, assuming you have access, may I make a cheeky suggestion? My current work in progress is Admiral Theobald Jones, yet another page which I though I would make a stub of to fill a hole in a list of MPs.
 * As has happened several times recently, he turns out to be much more interesting character, so my 10-minute stub creation has turned into a 2-day job of creating a full biography. The page is already full of DYK hooks, and that's before I flesh out his political career.
 * I already have enough sources to make a start on his political career, but if you can find anything on any aspect of his to add then please come and share the DYK credit! -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:38, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * All of the users that have gotten access through the Wikipedia Library have found it to be really useful (take for example 1908 FA Charity Shield and James Farmer (knight)). The interface seems pretty straightforward the couple of times I have interacted with it. Unfortunately, I don't have the time right now to contribute to the article: I am working on a couple articles I had before I started TWL and the have several Wadewitz related things hanging over me. But I wish you the best working on the bios! You can post a help request on the WT:BNA, there seem to be a number of users walking the talk page and responding, Sadads (talk) 17:17, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Eustace Balfour
Gatoclass (talk) 11:33, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Henry Wilson-Fox
Gatoclass (talk) 02:58, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Cudgel War
Done.Knowledge is power. (talk) 08:59, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Theophilus Jones (Royal Navy officer)
Hello! Your submission of Theophilus Jones (Royal Navy officer) at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Edwardx (talk) 10:26, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Theobald Jones
Hello! Your submission of Theobald Jones at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Rosiestep (talk) 02:41, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Reference Errors on 9 July
Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that some edits performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. as follows: Please check these pages and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/RBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/RBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=ReferenceBot%20–%20&section=new report it to my operator]. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:37, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * On the Charles Seager page, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=616220864 your edit] caused a missing references list (help | help with group references) . ([ Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:ReferenceBot/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F616220864%7CCharles Seager%5D%5D Ask for help])
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 * On the John Daly (bishop) page, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=616217848 your edit] caused a missing references list (help | help with group references) . ([ Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:ReferenceBot/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F616217848%7CJohn Daly (bishop)%5D%5D Ask for help])
 * All fixed. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)

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 * All fixed. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:08, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Theophilus Jones (Royal Navy officer)
— Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:46, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

For the record....

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

You closed my ANI report about EllenCT following me around falsely accusing me of paid editing....

" isn't it true that you've repeatedly attempted to insert statements paid for by the Peter G. Peterson Foundation claiming that US taxes are progressive, because they assume that corporate income taxes are not passed on to customers?"

"...User:VictorD7 so incessantly attempts to portray otherwise, and he knows it. This repeated insertion of paid advocacy must end."

"I strongly disagree with VIctorD7 and have no confidence in his ability to accurately identify or summarize the reliable sources. He has repeatedly attempted to insert the same paid and inaccurate advocacy which leads to the state of affairs described in the study's findings."

...concluding that she was only talking about a source and not me.

After our exchange on your page here, I made a [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:EllenCT&oldid=608590543#You.27ve_been_reported_on_the_admin_incident_notice_board. good faith effort] on EllenCT's talk page to get her to clarify her remarks. She just gave me the runaround, obstinately refusing to do so.

Later, in an arbcom case, she finally denied having accused me of paid editing for the first time, but then later admitted it...

"You took two weeks to deny that you were a paid editor after I asked you directly with a Ping on WP:ANI, which you cited in your evidence, and you made many intervening edits in the middle of April. Why did you wait so long to deny the accusation?"

Perhaps realizing she had slipped up, she deleted the segment, but her edit summary only mentioned a desire to double check "dates" before answering the question, not the content, possibly in an attempt to hide it. After being caught, she ultimately doubled down on her accusation of paid editing.

"Which do you think is the more serious accusation, that you willingly and repeatedly have been trying to insert a graph which portrays the tax incidence of the top 1% as progressive...or the question as to whether you have personally been paid to do so? Because I will happily withdraw the latter question if you can provide any evidence contrary to the former."

Of course offering to withdraw an accusation if certain conditions are met means the accusation has been made to begin with.

"However, I admit that upon several days reflection I am unable to assume the good faith necessary to believe that VictorD7's year-long effort to champion a manufactured graph in high profile articles to make it seem like taxes have been progressive for the top 1%...is as innocent as he says. He has shown willingness to compromise on other matters but abject refusal to budge from his position on any matters concerning the PGPF graph. So I admit I am unconvinced by his denials, because actions (behavior) speak louder than words (content.)"

Between the ANI report and that arbcom I had also dug up comments by EllenCT made just last fall that show precisely what she had in mind when she first started accusing me of "paid advocacy". The following posts were in policy discussions specifically about paid editing (also referred to as "paid advocacy" by Jimbo Wales and others), and demonstrate where EllenCT's mind set has been focused recently.

* Support paid advocacy is a conflict of interest with summarizing truthfully.

"So if you have the cash, you think the right to respond includes raising an army of mercenary meatpuppets to oppose volunteers, but those volunteers must not expose the meatpuppets or their paymasters? Of course you do, because it means money in your pocket. Shame!"

"I have seen too many attempts at whitewashing to ever feel comfortable consulting or participating in the creation of an encyclopedia which tolerates paid advocacy editing. There is no way to insure that anonymous editors will summarize truthfully when they are being compensated by the subjects of their topics. I believe WP:BRIGHTLINE should be elevated to policy."

Given the controversy over paid advocacy at Wikipedia in recent years, such charges, when leveled baselessly for cynical tactical advantage in content disputes, are insidious and shouldn't be tolerated by admin. I'm not planning on filing a new ANI right now (though a warning for her to desist would be nice), but since I assume your closure was made in good faith, I think you'd want to know if you turned out to be mistaken. I would. In the future I'd suggest contacting the editor and asking her what she meant if you believe her words could be interpreted differently from how the complaint filers see it, before making an assumption and closing it. Even then the poster wouldn't necessarily tell the truth, but her comments might still aid in discerning the truth. Thank you for your time. VictorD7 (talk) 18:00, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Victor, I closed that ANI on the basis of the evidence presented at the time.
 * If this has already been to arbcom, then I presume that you have already presented the evidence you want. I am not a one-woman arbcom appeals committee, so I am not going to put in the huge amount of time needed to assess what you have posted above by examining the context of the posts.
 * Feel free to go ANI or arbcom or RFC/U or wherever, but I am not going to take this on single-handedly. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:50, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * No need to get defensive, I just thought you might want to know that you had misinterpreted the evidence. Your own page says "If you think that I have screwed up, please do tell me." Having mistakes pointed out is an important part of long term improvement. The arbcom didn't address EllenCT's conduct, and, like I said, I don't intend to file a new ANI report right now (maybe later), but before I go I'd ask that if nothing else you at least take the time to read the one quoted sentence I bolded where EllenCT explicitly admits she was accusing me of paid editing. Her "ping" sentence refers to the very first quote at top that was included in the original ANI. VictorD7 (talk) 19:00, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Victor, I didn't "misinterpret the evidence". I interpreted the evidence which was actually presented at the time.
 * And I didn't "get defensive". I just said that I am not going to take some sort of ongoing role in this. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:04, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Discussion closed. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:32, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The first sentence EllenCT later described in the bolded quote as having been a "direct" accusation of "paid editing" was part of the evidence at the time (the first quote above and the first link in the ANI report). If you don't think you misinterpreted it, are you saying that you're standing by your initial conclusion, and disagreeing with EllenCT's interpretation of her own comment? VictorD7 (talk) 19:12, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Victor, with that attempt to put words in my mouth, you have reached the limit of my tolerance. The validity of the decision I made at the time depended on the evidence at the time, not on whatever evidence you have now.
 * As I wrote before, if this is still a live issue, raise it through one of the dispute resolution channels. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:32, 10 July 2014 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

Woll Smoth
It looks like you closed Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 February 5 as delete, but never actually deleted it. Can you do that? Thanks, Jackmcbarn (talk) 00:34, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Jackmcbarn, sorry for missing that, and thanks for pointing it out to me.
 * I have just deleted it. Sorry it's 5 months late. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:42, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Theobald Jones
— Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:47, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

AFC: Harlon Carter
Hi,

Could you please take a look at my response at Template:Did you know nominations/Harlon Carter. Thanks, GabrielF (talk) 03:29, 11 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I have replied there. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:08, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

What do you think about this guy?
Hi, it's me again. Someone seems to be pretty angry at me (here), describing my normal message as "crap" and threatening to "get me slapped"(here). Do you have any suggestions to deal with the hostility?Forbidden User (talk) 14:51, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Another idea: He is reverting my edits on Kristoff (Disney), and I feel like it is going to be an edit-warring.Forbidden User (talk) 14:54, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Forbidden User, and thanks for your message.
 * Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. This is not good.
 * Both of you are behaving very badly, and if this sort of thing ends up in dispute resolution, both of you are likely to be sent to the naughty corner. But you will get there first.
 * Here's some of what I see:
 * Forbidden User uses an edit summary to describe a good faith editor as "vandal". Bad idea: see WP:NOTVANDAL
 * Kintetsubuffalo responds with inappropriate aggression to the insult, threatening a slapping
 * Forbidden User posts to Kinetsbuffalo's talk page with the heading "Wow, that's a great piss-off". Un-necessary provocation
 * Kinetsbuffalo responds "I don't have to leave your crap on my talk page". True, but does nothing to calm the situation.
 * Look, Forbidden User, this is not complicated. If you behave rudely, some people will be rude back to you. They shouldn't, but some will.


 * The solution is in your hands. Play nice, and you will probably get treated nice.
 * That may not be the answer you wanted to hear from me, but it's how it is. Try being nice to others, and you will find that they are usually nice to you.
 * OTOH, if you decide to falsely accuse another editor of vandalism, be aware that they may respond unpleasantly. Having already insulted them, if you then insult them again, expect that you may provoke a harsher response. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:26, 11 July 2014 (UTC)


 * The both message is what I wish to hear, and wish him to hear. I've apologised, and of course I can do it again. However, he seems to be not letting it go at all, like what he says in Talk:Kristoff (Disney). The problem is that I don't feel a sign of ceasefire from him. Perhaps you can tell both of us something to help ceasing the tension? I'm completely calm here - with a clear and open mind.Forbidden User (talk) 15:43, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The answer is to WP:DISENGAGE. Make an unequivocal apology for your repeated rudeness, and expect nothing in return.
 * Then go edit something else, and do so more politely. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:48, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Good suggestion, and it has been done (at least I think so). Well, I hope no one would be nominating Kristoff (Disney) for deletion again before he can get the article off his sight. Thank you, you deserve a cookie!Forbidden User (talk) 16:07, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Howdy
Hey BrownHairedGirl, you're smart and powerful, I hear. Do you know anything about WikiBlame? I'm looking at a possible case of copyvio in Doc Hollywood (and my hunch is that IMDB copied it from us), and I'm trying to figure out when the phrase "quickly makes friends" was introduced. I thought that WikiBlame could do that for me, but I can't seem to get the right answer out of it. Your help is appreciated. Thanks, The Bald-Headed Drmies (talk) 15:58, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Drmies, thanks for the flattery -- although my four-legged friends would disagree on both counts.
 * I am not expert on Wikiblame, and only got into fairly recently. I use it by following the "revision history search" link at the top the page's history, and I set the revision count high to make sure I don't miss anything.
 * So in this case, I did this search, and found that the phrase was inserted in this edit on 15 July 2011.
 * Hope that helps! -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:08, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much--I see that (I think) I didn't raise "Versions to check", and I suppose "Start date" means "Start at this date and look back". I probably set that date early, reading it as "Start on this date and work up to today". Thanks again! Drmies (talk) 16:20, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I think the instructions are poor. I also did the same thing with the start date, and it was only after a lot of trial and error that I began to get useful results. But despite the unhelpful interface, it's worth persevering with Wikiblame, by experimenting until you get it tamed. It's a very useful tool.
 * Good luck! -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:29, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Fool's Garden
Please delete/merge the majority of Fools Garden songs.The band produced a one hit wonder the rest of it's work is of low notability.Knowledge is power. (talk) 15:48, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Knowledge is power, and you obviously know a lot more about this than I do. So why don't you WP:PROD them? -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:52, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Walter Jones (Irish politician)
— Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:49, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Help
Hi, I asked you few weeks ago to fix  Template:Country data South Korea . can you do the same for  Template:Country data Malaya  ? now goes to, which is a disambiguation page. thanks in advance. Mohsen1248 (talk) 12:05, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Baron Michael Winstanley decd 1993
Hi. My understanding is he was a descendant of Winstanleys who had been MPs representing the Wirral in past centuries. His grandson Julian has recently got a first at Manchester in politics. The family name Winstanley is one I recall from History at school. Michael's son is still alive I believe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.29.165.173 (talk) 05:46, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info, but Wikipedia only uses information which can be verified in reliable sources. If you have any sources for this information, I would be happy to help you to work with them. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 05:51, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

ANI re OccultZone
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Bgwhite (talk) 07:21, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
 * thanks for the notification, and thanks for taking the time to open the ANI discussion.
 * It is clear that User:OccultZone has a bundle of severe competency problems (poor English, abysmal communication, failure to build consensus, inability to understand simple requests) and should not be allowed anywhere near a high-speed editing tool. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:47, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

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Victor Ponta
Victor Ponta needs to become a protected article.The valdalism is overwhelming.Knowledge is power. (talk) 13:15, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
 * best to ask at WP:RFPP. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:48, 17 July 2014 (UTC)