User talk:Bswqtnz

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February 2013
Hello, I'm Fluffernutter. I noticed that you made an edit to a biography of a living person, Assemblies of God in New Zealand‎, but that you didn’t support your changes with a citation to a reliable source. Wikipedia has a strict policy concerning how we write about living people, so please help us keep such articles accurate. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 22:25, 7 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Fluffernutter. The reliable source is myself. I was made a member of the AoG in New Zealand in October 1976 ( I

still have my membership Card ) and was involved with the church and its members and ex members from 1975 to 1982 while living in New Plymouth. I then moved to Dunedin to study Law at Otago University. I was admitted to the Bar in 1987 and still practice law in Queenstown ( NZ ) as a Barrister ( i.e. Court lawyer ). I initially specialised in Criminal Law being trained by Mrs Ablett Kerr QC in 1992 - 1993 and mentoring one of NZs most brilliant young Criminal lawyers Gregory King. I now specialise in immigration law. You can check these creditials by visiting the NZ Law Society, Otago University, and Immigration and Protection Tribunal websites. The information I have entered is in the public domain and historical "common knowledge "i.e. all people involved in this denomination during this period of time in NZ are aware of it. I was a participant in and " eye witness " to the events so described. Some of this information will no doubt appear in Ian G. Clark's Book " Pentecost at the Ends of the Earth : The History of the Assemblies of God in New Zealand " but I have not been able to source a copy to date.

I do not know if it is appropriate to disclose actual names on these posts but if you go to the Immigration and Protection Tribunal website ( www.justice.govt.nz/immigration-protection-tribunal ) and find the Appeal decision for Mary Jane Urbano (2012) my name appears as Counsel for the Appellant.

I see you deleted my previous edit to this site on 28 February and noted it was poorly sourced and messy. I have recrafted the words and do believe that this second draft is much improved and more " encyclopaedic " in tone. If you believe my response given here then it is not poorly sourced ( i.e. an eye witness account ). I would query your classifying of the AoG as a " living person " - certainly the common usage of that phrase in New Zealand would not include a Christian denomination or local church. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bswqtnz (talk • contribs)


 * Hm, let's start from the beginning. There are two big issues that mean we cannot use the content you've been trying to publish:
 * Reliable sourcing. You need to read our policy on reliable sources before attempting to edit again. If you do that, you'll learn that you or I are never reliable sources for encyclopedic content, unless and until we're recognized academic experts or news professionals who publish in reliable newspapers or journals. We can't rely on what you know to write Wikipedia articles, even if you're 100% positive about it, because there's no way to verify anything you say if you can't provide a reliable source for it. I don't doubt your credentials or expertise, but your credentials aren't adequate for this purpose (not because they're inadequate credentials, but because relying on anyone's credentials isn't adequate).
 * Our 'Biography of living people' policy. Again, you need to follow that link and read that page. The "living person" issue at hand isn't the church itself; it's the fact that your content about the church contains negative content about people - for instance, you cite Pastor Neville Johnson as having had a "fall from grace" under "mysterious circumstances", but provide no reliable sources supporting that negative commentary about him. That's not allowed here, because we're an academic work writing about real, living people whose real lives can be affects, both legally and morally, by the things that are said here. For that reason, we require impeccable sourcing for any negative statements about people Wikipedia.
 * Also, you ought to read our conflict of interest policy. If you were truly involved in a court case regarding the congregation or the people mentioned here, you have a conflict of interest in attempting to write about them and you need to be very, very wary of trying to do so here.
 * So in short, while we appreciate your contribution, it would need to be completely reworked to be acceptable on Wikipedia. All the statements in it would need to be explicitly cited to a published, reliable, editorially-controlled source; all the statements would need to be phrased neutrally and encyclopedically (for instance, someone "loses their position" - neutral language - rather than "falls from grace" - emotional language - around here); and all statements made about a living person or people would need to be doubly-well done in both of those areas. Please, before attempting to add content to that or any other article again, go read all the pages I've linked to in the last few paragraphs. I know it can be a pain to have to do homework before joining in, but those pages will tell you everything you need to know about how to write your information acceptably if that's possible to do. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 00:14, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

To Fluffernutter
Thankyou for your post in February with your helpful advice for the edit of entries. I see where you are coming from. That was my first attempt at an edit and I have learnt from the experience / mistakes. Hopefully my future edits will be better.