User talk:Bubble'sFavouriteKitty

March 2019
Please stop changing "Shart" to "Chartres" at The Last Man on Earth (TV series). This has previously been addressed, most recently by me at Talk:The Last Man on Earth (TV series). Both spellings have been used in the program and so both must be mentioned. We are not permitted to make arbitrary decisions as to which we "think" is the correct spelling. The reference in the article, which has now been fixed, is from the series' official website and uses "Shart". You will notice that "Chartres" is also mentioned, with a reference to the specific episode. Note that the date used in the "Shart" reference is as of 2019 while the tweet you added is from 4 years ago. The more recent reference is more authoritative. Regardless, removing one spelling when both have been used is completely inappropriate. Cited content should never be removed. I urge you to also read the post I made at Talk:The Last Man on Earth (TV series) where there are links to several press releases that use "Shart". -- Aussie Legend  ( ✉ ) 05:37, 20 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Yeah, thanks. I see that now. The original link was broken and all other info I could find pointed to Chartres.


 * I guess the question is which is the correct spelling in-universe and which is the alternate? Are there any instances in show that say Shart?  You mention an instance of Chartres in S2E2 and there's another in S3E12.  Could the now deleted Fox website be an error?  The verified Twitter account says Chartres, so that's two 'official' sources that conflict.  Your reasoning above is that the Fox reference is more recent, but I would think that ceased to be a factor when the site was deleted.


 * There's also an aspect of judgement. If there's doubt, do you think it's more likely the show named the character Shart or Chartres?  The first is crude, while the second is a somewhat clever homophone and an actual placename. Bubble&#39;sFavouriteKitty (talk) 00:44, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't know if there are are any episodes where the spelling "Shart" is seen, but this is really irrelevant as there are plenty of written sources that use the spelling "Shart" including the finale press release. That the website has been archived is also irrelevant. Sources don't cease to be reliable just because they can't be seen any more. This is clearly stated at Link rot, which says: Like most large websites, Wikipedia suffers from the phenomenon known as link rot, where external links go dead (also called a dead link), as the linked websites disappear, change their content, or move. ... In general, do not delete cited information solely because the URL to the source does not work any longer. Our judgement is not a factor as that constitutes original research, which is not permitted. However, "res" at the end of a word is not usually silent. It's either pronounced the way it is spelled (as in reservation, residence etc) or is a misspelling of "rés" and pronounced "ray" (as in stingray or pray). -- Aussie Legend  ( ✉ ) 08:09, 21 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Alright, learning lots here. Didn't know about the link rot policy.  The volumes of rules for creating Wikipedia content can be intimidating for someone new to it.  I appreciate you pointing it out.  It was never my intent to create an argument, I saw what looks like an error and tried to fix it.  I did double check first, found that link was broken and all other references I found pointed to Chartres (including the internet archive grab that I checked (from Aug 2017)).


 * I think we agree that there are conflicting accounts. And I can see where the resistance comes from if you don't see that the two are homophones.  Chartres is a placename in France, and as the French are wont, they don't let a small thing like the rules of the language dictate how they pronounce it.  It does indeed sound like shart 1 2 3.


 * Regarding judgement, I mean in the sense of conflicting evidence. You have already exercised judgement in determining that Fox's website is more reliable than the in-show examples.  I'm still not convinced Fox is a more reliable source than the show itself (or the website isn't simply an error).  I'm also not convinced that the in-show references can be dismissed as irrelevant.  But I'm not going to change it again on you.


 * My "judgement" that the website is more reliable than an ancient tweet is purely commonsense based on a number of factors including that "Shart" was used consistently right up until after the program was cancelled and that all the press releases used that spelling too. The tweet is from 2015 and was a one-off thing. Between then and now things may have changed, they invariably do. The in-episode examples haven't been dismissed. In fact one has been used as a source for the "Chartres" spelling. -- Aussie Legend  ( ✉ ) 07:17, 22 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Sorry I've been slow to respond. I've been meaning to get back to this.


 * Common sense is a synonym for judgement (Wikipedia states "Common sense is sound practical judgment..."). You're exercising judgement when you prioritize one source over another.  Deciding which spelling comes first and which is in parenthesis is an act of judgement.


 * I would argue the balance of common sense tips in favour of prioritizing the in-show examples and a tweet from an executive producer over the production company's website. I don't know if whoever ran the Fox website is a primary source, but I would argue Chris Miller is.  And the show itself certainly is.


 * I think your point that 'things may have changed' is a catch-all, but let's walk through it. Could the spelling have changed at some point in the show?  The in-show spelling was 'Chartres' as shown in S2E2 and S3E12, but sometime later it was quietly changed to 'Shart' without any in-show acknowledgement and unrelated to the plot, even though one of the characters is a notary.  And this is substantiated by the recency of the spelling on the Fox press releases, but is not explicitly stated anywhere.  This is a solution that would check all the boxes, but it's an awfully convoluted solution.  Is it a more reasonable conclusion than the Fox spelling is an error?  Would this amount of inference meet Wikipedia standards?  And if one part of the article is based on this logic, for consistency shouldn't the article also note that the character's name changed from 'Chartres' to 'Shart'?


 * The spelling "Chartres" is shown at least twice in-show (S2E2 and S3E12). I'm not aware of any in-show source spelling it "Shart".  I don't see how any secondary source could be considered more reliable than the show itself.  I think, at minimum, the order of the two spellings should be reversed.  Something like: January Jones as Melissa Chartres ("Shart" was used in promotional materials from Fox).