User talk:Buchik

Hi Buchik! Nice to meet you here!

Thank you for finding the time to sign up and contribute to our project. If you're in doubt about anything, you might want to check out some of these pages:


 * Welcome, newcomers - a general introduction, and a good starting point
 * The help centre and FAQs
 * The Manual of Style - a guide to the community's writing conventions

It's also a good idea to sign the new user log and add a little about yourself.

When contributing to a talk page, you can sign your name by typing four tildes after your comments, like this: ~. (Just so you know, some people won't pay attention to unsigned comments).

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask me at my talk page. You can ask other users at the Help desk or Village Pump.

Above all, make sure you be bold when contributing, and have fun!--AndriyK 15:45, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Ukraine portal
Hi again, since you said you are interested in contributing around here, please take a look at Ukraine portal. It has a "Things you can do" list and two announcement boards that you might consider adding to your watchlist. Regards, --Irpen 17:50, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Buchik 19:32, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Discussion with Kuban Kazak
(You don't mind if I move this here)

Do not see how this is a concern for Russian Wikipedians. user:Buchik.


 * This is concern for ALL wikipedians irrespective of race and nationality. We are not going to have some person running around editing articles to suit his personal taste, and please sign your entries. Kuban kazak 18:27, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

The advise above for Russian wikipedians to look after their patch and not not to make judgement calls about Ukrainian subject matter was posted by me. Your reply above does not address my statement at all. I was not talking about AndriK's reverses in this instance (which I see as justified, BTW) but about Russian nationalism permeating your statements. Your previous post stated "I know exactly what you mean, but if AndriyK is going to represent the "true" Ukranian viewpoint, he will soon watch himself create a stereotype of Ukranians. All I'm trying to say that all of the Ukranians I know and a good portion of them come from the west of the country (my wife including) do not share his viewpoint, as do the majority of the population of that country. I am trying to point out to him that his actions will only make a third party point and laugh at him, Ukraine and Ukranians". This is no concern of yours and you are not qualified to make such statements. If you feel you must dispense judgement please stick to Russian topics. Leave ukrainians alone. BTW, I have already registered but am still trying to figure out the mechanics of login and signature/date stamping. Buchik


 * Ok if I have to repeate myself then fair enough so be it. 1) My ancestors came from Zaporozhia 2) My wife is Volynian 3) About a 5th of my life was spent living in Ukraine (in the west if I may ephasize, and I personally know that most of the stereotypes that you'll hear in Kiev, Donbass or Moscow about western Ukraine are wrong). 4) All I am doing is stating the obvious: AndriyK, in his time at Wikipedia manadged to achieve nothing apart from pointless and childish edit wars about obscrure spelling or wether a church was barged into... Moreover the user has created not a single article, and if he goes on trying to convince people that his view is true "Ukranian" then all he will achieve is to damage a respectble nations (and its peoples) reputation and create stereotypes. Whilst I might have patriotic POVs, I am against an article not repressinting the other side of the story. NPOV is a wikipedia policy which everyone must adhere to.


 * Now setting that aside, I nevertheless welcome you to Wikipedia and look forward to some constructive contributions, if you want help with something specific, by all means let us know. Best of Luck Kuban kazak 13:30, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Kuban Kazak. I do not want to be acrimonious or standoffish but should state again: reputation of Ukraine and Ukrainians is the matter for Ukrainians and Ukrainians only. Your ancestral and marital links do not qualify you as Ukrainian. You are Russian and quite clearly stated on your home page "I am also a Russian patriot and love my country like any Cossack must do". It is a known fact that Russian patriotism and Ukrainian patriotism are mutually exclusive. Our history is a testament to this. I have not noticed anybody on this page having an issue with you arguing with AndriyK's edits and reverts on the policy ground, but please, please keep your "big Russian brother" remarks to yourself. They come across as condescending and not helping your case one iota.

That said, thanks for welcoming me here - I am looking forward to having a chance to contribute to the Wikipedia content. I am sure we can cooperate over a number of issues, although I do not know much about Metro. Buchik 17:44, 11 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Mutually exclusive, hmmmm having a high standards of life, stable economy and a richly educated and culturally developed population... I think that is the end result of both patriots. Ukranians can deside for themselves, and believe me the majority of Ukranians on this forum are very good and talented authors and editors. The big Brother opinion is again something that I find difficult to follow, AndriyK's edits have endeed been a stumble point. Here is an author (although evidence of his works on wiki remains to be seen, which is why I offered him to start off with something- Drogobych and Izmail oblasts) who is on a mad crazy crusade to change absoloutely everything to suit his personal tastes (the usual policy is to thoroughly discuss the topic before taking off on any action such as renaming and presenting a different POV), result several pages had to be locked, and him being banned numerously from editing. It is a pity some people never learn. I admit that my original posts may be seriously skewed (some more than others), and I don't mind that the information from that post gets watered down and rephrased to abide by wiki's rules, however we must look at it from purpose POV. I want to enrich the article with new information, whilst AndriyK seems to be concerned exclusively with wether there is an h istead of g or a -iv instead of an -ov.

Now if I was writing an encyclopedia exclussively about Ukraine, then of course I would not addhere to other POVs, but this is not such an encyclopedia, this is an international project. Think of the thousands of people who come to see this and watch a lunatic trying to represent a "true" Ukranian POV.

The following may seem offtopic but if you want to read on then go ahead. Having lived for over 5 years in Ukraine (mostly in Rovno), and having been virtually everywhere I met people of different calibre and absoloutely different POV. (and NOTHING to say that one POV dominates others). For instance you have people claiming Ukranians came from an ancient race, another saying Ukranians=Russians, others still claiming to be Malorossians or Novorossians...to mention a few. Now it is true that in some areas one POV predominates others, and even more true is that there are very stereotypical POVs in one area of others POVs.

Take Volyn for example (a place which I happen to be very familiar with), what are the stereotypes there: Ultra-nationalists, beat up if you speak Russian, celebrate UPA instead of RKKA, are schismatic in belief (KP, Greco catholic etc), and don't even try to take on western Ukranian girls. The people are very boring with volcabulary limited to the words "klyaty moskali". That was something quite commonly said to me on the streets of Donetsk.

The reality is that in my five years of living in Rovno I have not had a single insult thrown at me because I was Russian or spoken Russian, 9th may was celebrated with parades and fireworks that match up to Moscow's. After an UPA monumnet was opened it stood for two days before local youths took vengence on graffitiing it, and nobody bothered cleaning it up (whilst a graffitied RKKA memorial would not stand an hour before local residents and veterans will in fury demand the hoodlums to be hunted down whilst cleaning it up) The majority of the population adhere to Orthodoxy and one could see for himself empty KP cathedrals and overcrowded MP ones during Easter (again the same city of Rovno). Language - Russian is spoken and understood by everyone, Ukranian preferred by people aged 25 and up. Of all the international marriages for Rovno, the highest nationality that a young Ukranian spouse will choose statistically is Russian (followed by Belorussian and the two combine to make 80%), which makes about 5% of Rovno's marriages. Practically every single family has relatives in Russia and Belarus. Yes you do have UNSO people but then their abundancy is not less than Donetsk's skinheads (в конце концов идиот он и в Африке идиот). Finally the boring Volynians can drink and party so well that it would leave Moscouvite clubbers jealous.

Why am I sharing this with you, well its because this is a place which I thought I knew a lot about, but only after living there did I realise how naive my understanding of reality is. I am not saying my knowledge of Ukraine is 100% accurate and nobody would have this accurate information, so in retrospect it is good for people to write about a country which they have seen from a 3rd person's POV. The truth is that Ukraine is very different wherever you go and the only thing I found out that was the same for ALL regions of Ukraine, was that all of their opinions on other regions were extremely skewed and sometimes directly opposite of the reality (as with my example of a Donabassian view on Volyn).

So to conclude there is no true Ukrainian POV, it is our job to present all of them, clean the facts of stereotypes and present them in a professional manner, so far you appear to be someone with substantially more intelligence than AndriyK, so I hope you prove me right and I look forward to working with you. BTW are you from Kiev, and do you have access to a digital camera? Kuban kazak 00:22, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Ahmm... I think it would be easier and more productive for us two to agree to disagree on the whole subject of the Ukrainian POV. We can always hammer out points of disagreement in the context of specific articles.


 * Fair enough, I'll just add that my conclusions are based entirely on my experiences from travelling and living in Ukraine, they are by no means absoloute facts. I am just generalising that Ukranian POV that politicians in Kiev stick to is questionable as its support varies from one area of Ukraine to another. My only fact is that the mentality of the majority of the peoples' in city of Rovno (and in the oblast) do not coincide with AndriyKs, and with the Russian and Eastern Ukranian stereotypes that's all. Other places I have not lived long enough in to judge. Maybe a good idea to find out what is the "real" Ukranian POV is to launch a compulsary opinion census...What do you think? Anyway you are right that enough is said about that.Kuban kazak 19:54, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Getting back to your question "BTW are you from Kiev, and do you have access to a digital camera? ". I have indeed got a digital camera, but I am not from Kyiv and not planning to travel there until mid 2006. Are you looking to include London tube in your article? Buchik 15:30, 13 November 2005 (UTC)


 * London tube, is already quite extensively done (I think anyway). Whilst it would be nice to have a megaportal on the World Rapid Transit systems, but then lack of time put even the launch of the FSU Metro (giving the present rate) portal off until next year. I do hope to write info on Novosibirsk, Kharkov, Minsk and Kazan Metros by New Year, and on Dnetpropetrovsk, Ekaterinburg, Samara, Nizhniy Novgorod, Tashkent and the Transcaucasian Metros by March next year. Yet if of course a helping hand is provided (not necessary you but in general) then maybe just enough impulse will be there to make the author of Urbanrail die from jealousy should he wander in here. (and besides London tube...hmmm is something like that comparable with our metros, Komsomolskaya, Mayakovskaya, Narvskaya, Avtovo, Arsenalnaya, Zolotye Vorota and comparing that with Baker Street or Picaddilly :) Kuban kazak 19:54, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration accepted
Requests for arbitration/AndriyK has been accepted. Please place evidence on Requests for arbitration/AndriyK/Evidence. Proposals and comments may be placed on Requests for arbitration/AndriyK/Proposed decision. Fred Bauder 02:26, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

AndriyK RfAr closed
The AndriyK RfAr has been closed. Until by consensus he has agreed to a suitable and mutually agreed naming convention using the guideline Naming conflict, AndriyK is prohibited from moving pages, or changing the content of articles which relate to Ukrainian names, especially those of historical interest. AndriyK is banned for one month from Wikipedia for creating irreversible page moves. Andrew Alexander, AndriyK, and MaryMaidan are warned to avoid copyright violations and to cooperate with the efforts of others to remove copyright violations. Ghirlandajo is warned to avoid incivility or personal attacks.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Kelly Martin (talk) 04:57, 27 January 2006 (UTC)