User talk:BurnDownBabylon/Archive 1

Welcome!
Hi, , Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions, you seem to be off to a good start. Hopefully you will soon join the vast army of Wikipediholics! If you need help on how to title new articles see the naming conventions, and for help on formatting the pages visit the manual of style. For general questions goto Help or the FAQ, if you can't find your answer there check the Village Pump (for Wikipedia related questions) or the Reference Desk (for general questions)! There's still more help at the Tutorial and Policy Library. Plus, don't forget to visit the Community Portal. If you have any more questions after that, feel free to ask me directly on my user talk page. ---

Additional tips
Here's some extra tips to help you get around in the 'pedia!
 * For Wikipedia policies and guidelines see The Five Pillars of Wikipedia and What Wikipedia is not.
 * Find everything in the Directory.
 * If you want to play around with your new Wiki skills the Sandbox is for you.
 * Introduce yourself at the new user log.
 * If you're bored and want to find something to do, try the Random page button in the sidebar, or check out the Open Task message in the Community Portal.
 * If you have edits from before creating an account try this.
 * To Upload Images with the correct Copyright tags.
 * Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (&#126;&#126;&#126;&#126;), this will automatically produce your name and the date.

Be Bold!!
You can find me at my user page or talk page for any questions. Happy editing, and we'll see ya 'round. Joe I 02:43, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Gramophone record
I replaced the blurred Magical Mystery Tour photo because I like it (the blur emphasizes what's important - the LP not the musicians - yet shows how the package looks). If you can find a better photo and would like to replace it, give it a shot, but don't just yank this one away, please. - DavidWBrooks 21:20, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Drosenbe et al
Hello G0zer. The case you opened at Suspected sock puppets/Drosenbe has been closed successfully. Both accounts you suspected have been blocked, but not under the sockpuppet policy, thus Drosenbe cannot be blocked. Drosenbe626 was blocked indefinitely becuase his name was too similar to Drosenbe's, so it is an obvious sockpuppet. Blacktooth was blocked for trollish behavior and for making personal attacks against you at Suspected sock puppets/G0zer (now deleted; if you wish to see the contents, contact me). Anyway, thanks for taking the time to report the users. Regards, Iola k ana |T  14:57, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Bill Clinton
I didn't vandalize the Bill Clinton article, and you know it. My edit was there for something like eight hours with several other editors making changes to the article without changing that part. You may not agree with its inclusion, but it's not vandalism. Handface 14:01, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Please note that edit disputes should not be termed vandalism, unless it is blatant that the edit was made in bad faith to disrupt the encyclopedia. There is nothing to indicate that in this case. However, it is not referenced with a verifiable source, so it can be removed. Tyrenius 21:31, 27 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Note also that since there is a source (http://www.nbc4.com/news/9577408/detail.html?rss=dc&psp=news) there is little excuse for this kind of over-the-top behavior on the part of Ptkfgs. Furthermore, your username also appears to be a possible violation of WP:U as names cannot consist of random or apparently random sequences of letters.  Handface 21:53, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It was changed by an administrator at my request. So, at least some folks don't see the "random" nature. It is an initialism for "punch the keys, for god's sake" --Ptkfgs 01:54, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


 * In my assessment, this is an example of "Sneaky vandalism" as described in Vandalism: the addition of "sensible-appearing" text crafted specifically to insert "misinformation" in the text. Although eloquently phrased, its intent to disrupt the article is clear; using well-formed sentences does not somehow transform "U R TEH GAY" into a good-faith edit. The user's unwillingness to discuss the issue at the talk page, instead merely re-adding the information (most recently concealed inside a large "reversion" of edits by an anonymous user) further illustrates that the only purpose was to disrupt the article. This is not an edit dispute. Please do not be fooled. --Ptkfgs 21:47, 27 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I didn't have an unwillingness to discuss the issue. I've discussed the issue at other locations besides the one you mentioned.  As you know (or should know), I've already dismissed the claim that this is merely a "he's gay" edit.  The edit does not claim Clinton is gay, and I do not claim  he is gay nor do I personally hold the belief that Clinton is gay.  Handface 21:53, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I would like to see the discussion. Could you please post a link? Thanks. --Ptkfgs 22:06, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

AD/CE
Where is the policy regarding changing between CE/AD and BCE/CE? The style guide merely notes that either style may be used. I undertook to normalize and link the references, and I selected BCE/CE because a history of gaming falls quite clearly in the worldwide secular domain. --Ptkfgs 01:19, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * For the fact that AD and CE are both accepted see Manual_of_Style_%28dates_and_numbers%29. For the prohibition to make a change between accepted styles see the same article and Requests for arbitration/Jguk. As a rule of thumb, articles should retain the convention adopted by the first editor.--BocciDaniele 01:24, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The discussion you link to is clearly not a policy -- my change was in fact based on a guideline from that page. Gaming is a secular topic and I selected the secular numbering (as one would use British spelling in an article on a British topic), because the numbering was inconsistent in the article (some with periods, some without, none linked). I am not particularly committed to one or the other -- why do you feel that unlinked BC/omitted AD is preferable in a secular article? --Ptkfgs 01:28, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Listen carefully. Not following The Manual of Style of Wikipedia is very rude, and will get your edits reverted; Not following an ArbCom is forbidden, and will get you banned.
 * AD/CE matter is very hot here on Wikipedia, in case you don't know. Whatever your opinion, changing from AD to CE (or the opposite) is forbidden. The first editor dictates the style, but in very few cases.--BocciDaniele 01:35, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Do not tell me to "listen carefully", do not call me "rude", and do not threaten to ban me for making good-faith edits to an article.


 * You seem far more concerned about AD/CE than anything else (and far more concerned than me) -- in fact, all of your edits appear to be enforcing or discussing your interpretation of the ArbCom ruling. My concern was to improve the article. I have not edited it again since your fly-by, and I have no intention of getting into an edit war over minutiae like this.


 * Best of luck -- in two days you seem to be off to a fiery start. Cheers. --Ptkfgs 01:41, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I wanred you because you asked me and I saw a dangerous pattern in your behaviour. However, I will galdly avoid receiving other messaged by you. Farewell.--BocciDaniele 01:47, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Please ignore BocciDaniele's admonitions. He has no authority in this matter and has otherwise been blocked for evading bans. While there is in general a policy on not changing between two acceptable styles, particularly AD/CE, this is not especially relevant to individual, good-faith edits and was a result of editors making en masse style changes from one acceptable style to another. There is no reason to be concerned about being blocked for your recent edits. Happy editing! —Centrx→talk &bull; 02:01, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks -- I didn't think there was. In that case, I think I will open a discussion on Talk:Backgammon. If there is consensus among actively interested editors, I think CE/BCE would be more appropriate. May I assume that if there is no resistance, that is not a change which will bring the fire and brimstone upon me? (assuming there's not a sock lurking round the corner?) --Ptkfgs 02:03, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * If no one objects, for this one article, there isn't a problem, but I suggest you use your time to do something else. The idea is, if you (re)write an article or you are a regular editor on an article and no one objects, then you write using the style you want, but there is no point in finding articles where you think it should be changed. —Centrx→talk &bull; 02:19, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes -- I have already been planning to make the edits suggested in the article's failed FA bid, but there is already consensus for those. I thought I would put this up for discussion since I anticipate having some time to make the other more major edits this saturday or sunday and the era naming can wait. --Ptkfgs 02:21, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Panairjdde
Well, now he has forced Wikipedia to block 130000 Italian IP users from using the Wikipedia. We hope that he'll cool off, and stay away. Ryūlóng 03:07, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

British Shorthair
Thanks for the backup, ptkfgs. I'm just about wikibroken from this. What I'm gonna need is some more admin support and hopefully some sort of final ruling about the issue from Someone! I know Wikipedia is a tough place to do it. From what I understand, not even admins can give final rulings on debates. I don't see this going to the Mediation Committee since I doubt the YTMNDers would be willing to negotiate. You're right. It's fad-related vandalism, that somehow slipped its way into a debate. If anything else, I need some general advice.

Also, I don't know if it's possible, but is there any way to detect whether or not a lot of these editors first set foot in Wikipedia after this fight broke out? There's stuff on YTMND encouraging attacks on Wikipedia as a result of a comment by JzG. See here-> wikiwankersnedm.ytmnd.com/ --Targetter 05:45, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I wish it would stop,I left some comments(anon),now it's semi-protected thanks to trolling...I wouldn't mind for a few days. Yet someone is actually provoking YTMND's by calling them "wankers"(see the link). Thanks for the points you made in the talk page. --The jazz musician 18:34, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think the semi-protect edit summary was a bit much, but not really out of line. &mdash; ptk ★  fgs  21:21, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah well, my patience is wearing thin with the relentless addition of trivial fads into mainstream articles. Over the past few months I have removed, by my reckoning, around 400 distinct YTMND links from mainspace, and I am far from being the only one removing them.  I do view it as a form of masturbation, giving pleasure only to the perpetrator and often inducing nausea in onlookers.  I applaud your comments elsewhere on this: YTNDers can be good Wikipedians as long as, while they are here, they are Wikipedians first - which means, as you have said, respecting policy and guidelines, and not overestimating the significance of transient fads. Just zis Guy you know? 11:28, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Haha
I don't normally gush, but this was hilarious. :-) THanks for the ray of sunshine.  Karwynn (talk) 15:16, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

RfC
Hello: There's an RfC on Snake Liquid which you may wish to comment on. --Emufarmers(T/C) 05:09, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

YTMND categorization
but that is in your opinion, why have them if you cant use them? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by I love ytmnd (talk • contribs).

Backgammon
Hey, you might be interested to know that there now is a category Wikipedians who play backgammon. Cheers, JocK 12:23, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Articles you might like to edit, from SuggestBot
SuggestBot predicts that you will enjoy editing some of these articles. Have fun!

SuggestBot picks articles in a number of ways based on other articles you've edited, including straight text similarity, following wikilinks, and matching your editing patterns against those of other Wikipedians. It tries to recommend only articles that other Wikipedians have marked as needing work. Your contributions make Wikipedia better -- thanks for helping.

If you have feedback on how to make SuggestBot better, please tell me on SuggestBot's talk page. Thanks from ForteTuba, SuggestBot's caretaker.

P.S. You received these suggestions because your name was listed on the SuggestBot request page. If this was in error, sorry about the confusion. -- SuggestBot 02:58, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Response to "references-small"
I responded to your query on User talk:Daniel.Bryant. Killfest2 —Daniel.Bryant  23:15, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Responded to your follow-up. Killfest2 —Daniel.Bryant  06:00, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Also added an image link. Killfest2 —Daniel.Bryant  06:07, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Drosenbe
I am Angelo Liguori of Strange But Surf. I have been the victim of harrasment since by the person behind the banned aliases drosenbe, blacktooth, drosenbe626, smellyfatboy and others since April of 2006. Wikipedia noticed the spamming and sock puppertry of this user drosenbe enuf to ban him and his alias' The history of the Surf Music pages show that quite clearly. An attempt is now made being made to portray me as Blacktooth, one of his many aliaes.

I need not point out his offences against Wikipedia, nor I do need to establish the truth of my identity. Wikipedia has figured it out, without my help. I have had this discussion via email with Soundclick, My Space and other sites that he abuses the freedom they allow him to slander and harrass me, my band and others. They either has banned him, forced him to remove slanderous comments or simply ignored his threats of legal action.

I dont not want to cause trouble for him, I just want it to stop.

Not only for my band, but for all the bands that work hard to establish themselves in history. I am quite aware of the rules and know that my band has not yet reached the level of fame to warrant grand statements in history. I am also aware that this user's only need to be part of Wikipedia is to continue to harras me and the entire surf genre. He has been banned from every single surf music site I can think of. I commend Wikipedia for the actions taken so far, for I cannot keep defending the enire genre of surf rock forever. Thank you for your time, I have tried to email other Wikipedians to discuss this but most of the editors do not have an email addy listed. Please help.

Angelo Liguori aka Marbles Mahoney Drums/Guitar/Media Strange But Surf

I can be reached by any of these methods...

strangebutsurf@yahoo.com ranchodeangelo@yahoo.com —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Marbles Mahoney (talk • contribs).
 * Where is someone claiming that Blacktooth is you? &mdash;ptk✰fgs 19:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

This discussion page... http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Blacktooth&action=history were edited as shown in the history by his latest sock puppet that you banned... $taypuffmarshmellowman - the revision can be seen here. I corrected it, but I should not have coreected a discussion page and he should not have edited it either. Most of the editors of these pages do not have emails and leaves me very little recouse but to have this public discussion.

The page was posted by wikipedia to alert people to his vandalism, but was changed to use my name instead of his. Check the history, its there.

This harrasment must stop. I will supply you with whatever help you need to protect not only me, but wikipedia from this continued vandalism and harrasment.

he has also posted this self promotion page... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_Dave using the name... Smellyfatboy, yet anothe sock puppet of drosenbe. Wikipedia is under attack from this vandal, as am I and I am ready willing and able to help in any way. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Marbles Mahoney (talk • contribs).

Thank you for your time.
 * I would recommend that you make a post at Administrators' Noticeboard/Incidents. If this is a user who is continually using sockpuppets and harrassing you, you will need an administrator to deal with it. I am not an administrator (and I also did not ban any of his other accounts; I merely reported them). I realize that you were not the only one to edit my post at Blacktooth's talk page. No harm done, just avoid editing others' comments in the future. &mdash;ptk✰fgs 20:39, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

New info for reconsidering a vote
Hi Ptkfgs! I have provided additional information to support International Institute of Management article. I have listed the new information for verifying sources and notability at this article's entry. I kindly ask you to support this article by reconsidering your vote. I'm hoping you gave your recommendation in good faith and you will reconsider it in the light of new information. Miro.gal

British blue
No problem. It is my mum's cat. I have a british blue (brother), but it is not quite as beautiful. --liquidGhoul 14:28, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikiproject Go
Unfortunately, no. I had no idea there was a Wikiproject Board and table games, and it would be lovely if go was added to it. Thanks! Can 15:36, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

forumcruft malformatting SOAP
Hi - please let me know what's malformatted about my posting to the SOAP article. I was hoping to address your concern about it needed a proper source (using a source of LA Weekly, rather than digg).


 * Some fans have taken to attending the movie wearing black suits and afro wigs. This convention arose out of an elaborate in-joke that originated among users of 4chan in reference to their "/b/lockades" of Habbo Hotel. Some showings have involved audience participation similar to The Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Thanks, --Oscarthecat 18:24, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. How about we go for this approach?


 * Some fans have taken to attending the movie wearing black suits and afro wigs.

Sound ok? --Oscarthecat 18:37, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Conflict 2
I have been keeping an eye on and updating the much neglected Sorry! game. You have recently deleted the entire 'Scenario' section that was placed there specifically because of several requests. That section could not be logically merged with any other. I will remove this when you give me an explanation why you deleted it. If you work for Wiki, or are somehow affiliated with them, then I can better grasp you reasoning, but if not, you really have no right going around anywhere you please, deleting material simply because you think it may be excessive. Thank you. Gunny847 23:37, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Individual cell phone articles at PROD/AFD
I am really opposed to the sudden deletion of this article because the Motorola i860 and Motorola i930 have their own articles. There is room for improvement to make it less like an informational page. As you should know, it is far from complete, as nominating this article for deletion shouldn't be an option unless it's something that's really spam. Considering that there's room for improvement for the article itself, I have absolutely no choice but to remove the deletion nomination box. If you have a beef with this, you can debate with me here and explain why the article should be deleted, as I have to agree with some people who also have the same issues with your apparent beef with certain cell phone articles. &mdash; Vesther (U * T/R * CTD) 01:13, 21 August 2006 (UTC) (Comment was modified)
 * I am going to conduct a mass-improvement of this article, so please don't try to mark the Motorola i870 article for deletion right now, unless it becomes too much of an advertisement. I started this article, and there's still room for improvement.  How about me marking it as a wireless stub instead? &mdash; Vesther (U * T/R * CTD) 01:28, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

OK mate, you have accomplished somethng very few people are able to do and that is annoy me. You have nominated the Nokia Shorty and Nokia 1600 (and God knows what else) for deletion. From your user page I can see that you have some strong opinions about deletions and thats okay, but a cellphone is notable IMO and many others. I will remove the deletion nomination until you can prove to me that they should be deleted. Cheers. Minfo 22:50, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

For those of you just now arriving, I've adopted an incredibly lenient approach for marking cell phone articles for deletion. No, I don't hate your consumer choices. I happen to be a 6230 user myself, and as you'll see I prodded it too (It's just not an encyclopedia grade phone, y'know?)

If I've marked one, it's because it hasn't contained even a minimal assertion of why that particular model is notable. Of course, not every phone can be the Motorola International 3200 &mdash; there'll only ever be one "first digital mobile phone." But there are other firsts, and other revolutionary designs (like, you know, the RAZR's iconic case design, and the Sharp J-SH04, the world's first camera phone). Look for phones like that &mdash; those make encyclopedia articles. That thing in your pocket &mdash; that probably just makes calls. &mdash;ptk✰fgs 03:28, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I tottally disagree with you. That's like saying their shouldn't be articles for average NHLers, soccer players, actors, or whatever. What has Idaho done to revolutionize the world? Maybe only the important states should get articles. Just leave all of us alone and stop trying to delete articles that do not need to be deleted. Minfo 05:12, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Ptkfgs, for trying to clean up the cell phone cruft. It seems very silly to me to have articles about non-notable products that nobody will remember in five years, particularly when those products have no innnovative features or are doing anything to move the industry or market forward. There are other problems this class (computer models, most notably, and so on...) and I appreciate your run at stopping the blight from spreading. -- Mikeblas 16:47, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Listcruft
Please see Articles for deletion/List of famous members of Mensa (2nd nomination) ... your 2¢ would be appreciated. --Dennette 20:53, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Please do not canvass regarding AFD's. Thanks &mdash;ptk✰fgs 20:56, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry ... didn't know about the canvass prohibition. --Dennette 22:33, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

YES! YES!
For not being a typical YTMND raider/vandal, I say you're the man now, dog = P --  Netsnipe  (Talk)  10:18, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It's a bit late, I know, but I second Netsnipe's sentiment. You Are A Good Editor!--Dreaded Walrus 03:51, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

NEDM
Damn, man... Looks like you've been busy with British Shorthair. Anything suspicious on the YTMND front that might explain the recent vandalism? --Targetter (Lock On) 23:02, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Fixing unbroken redirects
Just a note. Wikipedia's redirect guideilne says you shouldn't have fixed the redirect from US dollar to United States dollar as it wasn't broken, inappropriate, or misleading.;) --Bobblehead 16:45, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
 * OK. It also wasn't a redirect with possibilities. While the current consensus is that it's unnecessary (and expensive in terms of database operations) to go on expeditions bypassing redirects, and that it's harmful to bypass more specific terms with a link to the general article, the how-to guide is quite a bit more normative and vague in its "don't fix redirects" section than is supported by current discussion on bypassing redirects.
 * Obviously we are talking about the United States dollar. There was no harm done. Thanks anyway, though. &mdash;ptk✰fgs 16:59, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Go to Hell
Screw you, why the hell do you care what I put on a page about time travel, isn't that nonsense itself? You need to be less concerned about stupid things such as correcting wikipedia pages. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Drumfreak66 (talk • contribs).

My Contributions
Please do not delete my contributions. It is considered vandalism. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Drumfreak66 (talk • contribs).

Ha
You think I don't know my way around a simple IP block? Im not a moron —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Drumfreak66 (talk • contribs).
 * No, I'm sure you're not. Please sign your posts by using four tildes ( ~ ) &mdash;ptk✰fgs 20:05, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Block Warning
No, I added good information to a time travel article and you deleted it. That is vandalism, and you must stop that kind of behavior or a ban will be put on your account. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Drumfreak66 (talk • contribs).


 * Fine, go for it. &mdash;ptk✰fgs 20:05, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Ha —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Drumfreak66 (talk • contribs).


 * Please sign your posts by writing ~ at the end. &mdash;ptk✰fgs 20:11, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Morda (Happycat Archive Pic)
Wasn't it you that brought up the internet archive for happycat before? Did you see my comment down at the bottom of the talk page? --Targetter <tt style="color:#900;">(Lock On)</tt> 03:52, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe so. It took a long time to find, and it's still not quite the right image :-( However, there are a couple of other approaches:
 * It's hosted here so we might be able to claim that epickid has the copyright
 * It's still in the google cache, though it won't be for long
 * A Man In Black has vowed to delete any happycat images "on sight", so if one pops up we can probably leave him a message to get it removed.
 * &mdash;ptk✰fgs 03:57, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Za'atar
Hi there - you are not too likely to find a recipe for making Za'atar in English, for the simple reason is that it contains Sumac. There are 2 kinds of sumac leaves and one of them is very poisonous, so even the best Middle Eastern cookbooks eschew giving the recipe for fear that someone may inadvertantly poison themself (and sue?)

The solution, go to a Middle Eastern Market & buy some premade. While there, you can always ask the shop owner if they know what the ingredients are.

I happen to have a full jar of the edible Sumac that I acquired in Lebanon, but have yet to find a recipe for Za'atar that tastes like the stuff I buy premade. I am still looking!

Cheers,

Mark J. Eblan (globalsufi)

Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Counter-Vandalism Unit (third nomination)
Thank you for your comments. You should be aware that Dr Chatterjee is actually Bobby Boulders, a vandal banned from Wikipedia, as established in Requests_for_checkuser/Case/Dr_Chatterjee. John254 20:50, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Bobby Boulders obviously did not nominate the Counter-Vandalism Unit for deletion to help Wikipedia -- he nominated the Counter-Vandalism Unit for deletion to weaken Wikipedia's defenses against vandalism. His arguments are pure trolling, designed to convince us that because he has been vandalizing the Counter-Vandalism Unit, it must therefore be deleted.  Additionally, he is attempting to start a wheel war, because if the Counter-Vandalism Unit were deleted on the basis of a nomination and arguments by a prominent vandal, many administrators would not accept such an outcome. John254 21:13, 6 September 2006 (UTC)