User talk:Buster40004/Archives/ 1

May 2011
Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute to the encyclopedia, but when you add or change content, as you did to the article Allison Engine Company, please cite a reliable source for the content of your edit. This helps maintain our policy of verifiability. See Citing sources for how to cite sources, and the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. BilCat (talk) 04:55, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! My sources are now fixed. Regards, Terry (talk) 23:15, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Aichi AE1A Atsuta Model 21


A tag has been placed on Aichi AE1A Atsuta Model 21 requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion," which appears inside of the speedy deletion tag (if no such tag exists, the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate). Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you.  CrossTempleJay     talk 22:58, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * ===Thanks!===

I created the page in error while changing a link, and did not get back to deleting it before you did. Regards, Terry (talk) 23:09, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * You are welcome. A friend called - -- CrossTempleJay     talk 23:18, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation


I noticed your submission in Articles for creation, Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Template:Aichi aeroengines. Thanks! It will be reviewed by a volunteer soon.

Before it can be added to Wikipedia, your submission should have references. All articles on Wikipedia should have inline, numbered references after facts, showing the 'reliable source' (a newspaper, book, etc.) where the information can be checked, so that all information is verifiable.

Here's an example of how to add references: Chzz is 98 years old.

He likes tea.

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Template:Aichi aeroengines, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created. Thank you for helping Wikipedia!  Chzz  ► 01:11, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Please continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request.
 * If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider


 * Thanks!  Buster40004 Regards, Terry 01:48, 25 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Great work with the Japanese engine articles, please remember to list them at WP:NEWAIR so that they can be assessed. We have an engine task force chat page at WT:AETF or you can ask for help on my talk page (but you seem to be doing very well without!!). Cheers. Nimbus  (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    09:56, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I am also working on the Kawasaki Ha-40 and Ha-201 engines right now. They should be ready to move soon.
 *  Buster40004   12:32, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Great, I saw you listed one, the filled redirect could have been listed as well. Our coverage of Japanese engines from this era is not brilliant, probably due to editors not having the sources. Russian engine coverage is similar but it's got better in the last year or so. All good stuff, cheers. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    13:55, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of My Aircraft Templates


Thank you for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and the page that you created has been or soon will be deleted. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion," which appears inside of the speedy deletion tag (if no such tag exists, the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate). Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Singularity42 (talk) 22:32, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

My Aircraft Templates
I think I understand what you are trying to accomplish with My Aircraft Templates. Am I right that you want an easily accessible list of templates for your articles? If so, then rather than create it in the article mainspace, you might want to have them in your own userspace. If you keep them at User:Buster40004/My Aircraft Templates, then you can use that as your own template toolbox. Singularity42 (talk) 22:35, 1 June 2011 (UTC)


 * The same for My Engine Templates, which you can copy and keep at User:Buster40004/My Engine Templates. Singularity42 (talk) 22:38, 1 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, that was my intention. I am trying to fill in redlinks and missing articles that are on list pages, but not linked.

I will try it again, moving this whole set of "helpers" to my sandbox. I thought that having it under my user page that I could work it that way, thanks for the help cleaning up my mess.

 Buster40004   23:24, 1 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi Terry, you do seem to be having fun with your pages!! Please ask me any questions about WP stuff at any time. Just a suggestion but you might like to try the 'tabbed' user page format that I use, you could keep your 'helpers' on different tabs. If you click on 'edit this page' on my user page (but don't edit it accidentally!) you will see how the coding works. Cheers Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    23:40, 1 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Yes, I am trying to simplify creating articles.  I am getting tired of switching back and forth through several levels of menus to get the templates that I need.  I will head over to your user page and see how a pro does this.  I know how to make tabbed and popout menus in html on regular web pages, so I should be able to adapt what you have to what I need (it may be the same). Again, thanks for the help.

 Buster40004   00:47, 2 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Looking good, I find the tabbed method very useful. The way I create articles might also be an easier method for you. I have several user sandbox pages and recycle them (just keep clearing them and overwriting), User:Nimbus227/Sandbox/Do 28 is one. Create your new article in your own user sandbox then 'select all' and 'copy' in edit mode. Go to the main WP search box on the left and enter the name of the new article and hit 'search', Let's try A big aircraft engine. At the top of the search page a redlink appears and a message saying there is no article but you can create it. Click on the redlink, paste in your copied text, check it, add an edit summary like 'created new aero engine article' and hit 'save page'. Job done. If you find a red link with your new article title in an article or list then just click on that and add the text missing out the search bit. There is a list of missing engine articles at WikiProject Aircraft/Engines/Missing articles, it's not complete but it's something to chip away at. Cheers Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    09:19, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of My Engine Templates


Thank you for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and the page that you created has been or soon will be deleted. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion," which appears inside of the speedy deletion tag (if no such tag exists, the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate). Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Singularity42 (talk) 22:36, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of My Engine Templates


Thank you for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and the page that you created has been or soon will be deleted. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion," which appears inside of the speedy deletion tag (if no such tag exists, the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate). Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Singularity42 (talk) 23:18, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

My Engine Templates
I moved this to your userspace at User:Buster40004/My Engine Templates. ... disco spinster   talk  02:35, 2 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks! I am trying to get my act together, and can use all the help I can get.

 Buster40004   02:39, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Yokosuka D4Y
Hi Terry, can I ask where you got the information for this change please? The problem is that the specifications section there is referenced to just one source (as most aircraft articles are) and if it came from somewhere else then it is strictly a change to cited information (and could easily be reverted by an editor looking at the change). If it came from the page number given in that source and you have corrected a transcription error then that is a proper correction. I left it and thought I would ask first. Cheers Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    19:49, 5 June 2011 (UTC)


 * That change came from R.J. Francillon's Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War page 457, which I prefer for its accuracy when compared to other reference works.


 * The code letters are the development or exprimental designation for the Aichi Atsuta series of engines. "A" stands for Aichi,   "E" stands for Liquid Cooled, "1" stands for first model of that type engine and the last letter is the revision to the engine model, with the original version being "A".  The Atsuta 12 was the AE1A engine.  The Atsuta 32 was the AE1P engine.


 * What does one do in a case like this? Can the specification section have more than one source?


 *  Buster40004  Talk 21:23, 5 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, they can but it gets complicated!! Both sources have to be listed at the top of the section and the figures that come from the second source have to be cited (page reference added). The second source has to be added to the bibliography section. It's tricky when two reliable sources contradict each other and sometimes it needs to get discussed on the talk page as to which one to use (or possibly a completely new better one). I tend to fall back on Jane's sources, difficult there as the exact variant of the aircraft is not given in the article (there were several variants of D4Y2) but the two Atsuta engines listed by Jane's in 1945 for this aircraft were the 'Model 21' and 'Model 31' (different again in designation and number to what is there now!!). Personally I would not have changed what was there already even with what my preferred source says as it quickly becomes untidy. We have to assume good faith on the editor who originally added the specification figures (trusting them that they have copied them accurately) and bear in mind the verifiability over truth principle that I mentioned on my talk page. What I would have done there (and most other aircraft editors would as well) is raise the question on the talk page (why is the engine number different in different sources?), wait for replies/suggestions and then edit as required. The other way is WP:BRD which I try to avoid!! Cheers. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    22:03, 5 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I see what you mean. However, just a few lines above, the Variants section lists the D4Y2 as:


 * D4Y2 Model 12
 * 1,044 kW (1,400 hp) Aichi AE1P Atsuta 32 engine adopted.


 * Perhaps it was just a typo in the original work, as the Specifications section disagrees with the Variants section.


 *  Buster40004  Talk 22:20, 5 June 2011 (UTC)


 * They often do disagree! I can see seven D4Y2 variants listed there, the specification section header just says 'D4Y2' so it could be describing any one of the seven to my mind. There is no rush to sort it all out we will get there eventually. I'm not particularly interested in that aircraft but I was worried by your edit as it had no supporting reference. I'm not an admin and I'm certainly not here to lecture, just help. Please feel free to post in WT:AETF any engine related questions. I've got to sleep now and work tomorrow, hope to spend some more time helping with any potential new articles that you might have in the pipeline. Cheers. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    22:35, 5 June 2011 (UTC)


 * And help, you have. My pipeline is flowing at a good rate. My list is at User:Buster40004/To_do.  My progress will depend on what time I can spare, so the word 'deadline' is not in my current vocabulary. Sweet dreams, and again, thanks for your guidance.


 *  Buster40004  Talk 22:52, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Having had a nice sleep and a reasonable day at work I thought more about the 'double referenced' specs problem. It generally only happens when the individual sources have only some of the specs but combined they have all the specs required. I'm looking at creation of some missing Japanese aircraft engine categories. On a quick glance through the older piston engine articles many are stub class, need infoboxes adding and images as well. Sometimes clicking on the other language links on the left sidebar will show articles with images but I didn't find any on my quick scan. It might be worth looking at the format of United States military aero engine designations, the only engine designation article that I know of. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    19:47, 6 June 2011 (UTC)


 * The Japanese engines were identified by at least four overlapping ID systems. The IJN named their engines - Sakae 22 for example.  When in development, it was called the NK1F, and late in the war, it was the Ha-35 21 under the Unified system.  If that engine was used by the IJA, it could also have a "Type (Year)" number assigned.  The US Military system says the dash (-) number determines USAF (odd) or USN (even) use, assigned in sequence.  on the other hand, Japanese engines were classified in 1 of 9 classes by arrangement and then in 1 of 6 bore/stroke classes.


 * Check out User:Buster40004/Sandbox/Projects/Japanese aircraft engine identification systems for what I am working on, on this very topic. Your comments are, as always, welcome.


 *  Buster40004  Talk 21:12, 6 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Yep, I've seen it, that's why I added the link to the other designation article. If I may say so it needs shortening quite a lot, concentrate on the actual designation system explanation (I learned what 'Ha' means, good stuff) so that the facts don't get lost. The engine lists and variant information is good but doesn't really belong there (could be added to the individual type articles with citations). There are a few facts in the lead paragraph that would need citations. Another thing that I noticed (or thought about!) is that the working title would cover all Japanese aero engines, including the modern ones. If you have info on the modern system then it should be included, if not then the title needs to be changed to indicate the scope of the article (WWII engines give or take a decade?).


 * I've created a few new Japanese engine categories this evening, it looks like some of the navboxes don't contain all the redlinks for types in the range, I'll try to fix that. Cheers. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    21:36, 6 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Any chance that you could null the categories in your sandboxes to stop them showing please? Best way to do it is just remove a bracket from each end (then re-add them when you create the article). I would do it but I don't generally visit user sandboxes unless I'm invited. Cheers. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    00:21, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think I have disabled them all. I had no idea that I even had them set.  If another pops up, would you let me know which article is the offender?


 *  Buster40004  Talk 02:53, 7 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Sure, it's not a biggie. If you copied another article (which is fine) then you probably imported the categories as well, that's quite useful if you are creating a similar article, I do it but null them in the way I mentioned until the article is created. Adding categories (if you forget them) is not important as other editors will add them later, a bot will notice if there are no categories and post a notice on the page. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    07:42, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

More hidden stuff!
Terry, you can see from the transclusions that your sandboxes are famous!! The engine task force user box is automatically generating the entries, it is only intended for a single use on your main user page (to identify you as a member of the task force). By tagging your sandbox discussion pages with the task force banner they are also appearing in the engine article list. I normally don't tag sandbox talk pages until the article is created (in fact I create a new discussion page with the article as I 'copy and paste' from sandboxes instead of 'moving' them.

It's probably only me that's seeing them so again it's no biggie. Be aware that we already have an article on the Hiro Type 91, it's easy to create a duplicate if you don't search thoroughly for an existing article. If you do accidentally create a duplicate article it usually gets redirected to the existing article (unless yours is much better, then the original gets redirected to the new one, rare but it can happen!). Just trying to avoid wasted effort. Keep at it! Cheers. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    10:34, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Have some wings!

 * Thanks! I am not seeking fame nor glory, but I do appreciate the recognition.


 * I have discovered over the past couple of years that information about Japan - its culture, history - religion, and most of all, why it decided to attack allied interests knowing that it had absolutely no hope of winning - was lacking in our part of the world. Because of this, we do not understand the why and how of what happened.  Right now I am reading four books on that topic.  I want to understand more about the why than anything else.  The results of my research so far is that there is a need to fill in the missing pieces, and being a historian of this period, I have a lot to contribute.


 * I took a look at the Type 91 engine article, I have found little to add so far, so I will keep adding to mine as a receptacle until such time that it is worthy of merging into the existing article.


 * Again, thank you so much for your patience while I learn the ins and outs of this magnificent endeavor.


 *  Buster40004  Talk 12:41, 7 June 2011 (UTC)


 * You're very welcome, we throw bananas at each other to keep ourselves going sometimes!! Credit where credit is due. I do believe very strongly in the aims of Wikipedia, it's just a massive struggle at times and some thanks to those that are doing their best does not go amiss. No, I don't understand the Japanese involvement in WWII either, I'm more interested in the technology (which seemed to be mostly German). I have worked in a team that included hundreds of Japanese engineers (but I didn't learn many words!), one engineer remained behind in England when the company folded and gives me a daily insight into their culture. He could actually help if there are translation problems as he's also a mad 'plane spotter', I know he can give the allied reporting names from memory if I give him a manufacturer and type! Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    13:35, 7 June 2011 (UTC)


 * The Japanese recognized early in the 20th century that they were behind the curve in technology, and knew the Germans were on the cutting edge. They were on our side in WW I, and saw how aviation was the future for the military. Several of the big Japanese conglomerates formed aviation departments and hired German engineers to adapt European designs to fit their needs.


 * They never were able to develop their own technology, except in a few cases. They purchased aircraft and engines from all over the world, and that purchased technology served them well until the need to produce mass quantities.  In June,1944 the United States produced more aircraft than Japan produced in WW II.  They preferred to do battle to the death than surrender, even when it was obvious they had no chance to win.  It reminds me of the Black Knight in the Monty Python skit.


 *  Buster40004  Talk 16:13, 7 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Ah, the Black Knight, 'it's just a flesh wound' doesn't he say?!! I avoid politics on here and anywhere else (I avoid a lot of things on here as it happens!). I'll have a look through my collection of museum engine photos, we've got a few WWII Japanese types over here in good restored condition. They tightly cowl their engines so you don't see much! Cheers. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    16:45, 7 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry if it seems like I'm following you about Terry, I'm just trying to be helpful (and will stop very soon as you have almost got the hang of it!). I don't know if you realise that using Template:Aeroengine-specs in an article automatically adds that article to Category:Aircraft engines without specifications. There are articles out there that still need this tag. You might see articles with it that appear to have a full set of specifications, the reason it is still tagged is because the specifications are unreferenced. We have had a lot of problems with editors adding their own calculations to these sections, using this tag (instead of the 'citation needed' tag) placed the articles in a category where we could work through them and add verifiable figures. Sadly we are way behind still! Cheers. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    00:10, 14 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Don't mind it at all, Nimbus, in fact, it is reassuring. The template seems oddly named in that the title says one thing and the results are quite the opposite. Or at least to a novice like me it does. I will refrain from using it, letting those who know lead the way until I see how all of these gadgets work.  Thanks for the 'heads up'.

Regards,  Buster40004  Talk 02:04, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I agree it is oddly named! When things were set up (even before the engine task force was) some templates were given titles that didn't make sense to me. I struggle to remember which template name does what and have to search for it instead of inserting it from memory. Problem is that many editors have got used to the naming of these templates and there would probably be protests if we tried to change them now. We could in theory use a redirect, so something like Template:Aeroengine specs missing would redirect to Template:Aeroengine-specs, I'll see if we can improve things through task force discussion. The main specification table templates are Template:Pistonspecs and Template:Jetspecs which I think is logical enough. If you are loading those templates it's best to copy the latest version direct from the template, as some older articles have parameters missing, the most useful one being '|ref=' as this is where the single cite goes for the section. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    10:05, 14 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the update. Regards,  Buster40004  Talk  12:43, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Non-free files in your user space
Hey there Buster40004, thank you for your contributions. I am a bot, alerting you that non-free files are not allowed in user or talk space. I removed some files I found on User:Buster40004/Sandbox/Projects/Bennett BTC-1. In the future, please refrain from adding fair-use files to your user-space drafts or your talk page.


 * See a log of files removed today here.


 * Shut off the bot here.


 * Report errors here.

Thank you, -- DASHBot (talk) 05:02, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Message
03:55, 29 June 2011 (UTC)