User talk:Buster7/Archives/2012/January

Hello Buster7, here is Ganzkörperfutter from Germany
Dear Buster, allready if written some articels in German, I started in November with the article Mania D. Maybe the english articles have different rules, which I, please believe me, tried to find out. Specially the Mania D article feedback irritates me, which said, there are not enough relaible references. I enriched the article with more references and it still say`s, there are not enough. What can I do? and Merci for your feedback and A memorable 2012 filled with sonsist energy to you ganzkörperfutter--Ganskörperfutter (talk) 20:47, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

GOCE 2011 Year-End Report
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The foul language debate
Well, I don't know. Do you think I should involve myself at all? I was just a passer-by really - I don't feel any responsibility for the block, because it's obviously part of a long-running saga and I had barely come across him before. Deb (talk) 14:30, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Not at all...you needn't involve yourself if that's your choice. I was just letting you know that the diff I used made reference to you, as a courtesy. But...I will say that your unawareness of his long-running history is interesting. Few editors have the courage to confront him. As his peers, we stand idly by while he does what he does. You innocently asked him for consideration and he flatly refused. As I said, I feel that that act was the height of incivility. The others were just words. That was an act of aggression. Nice to meet you. Buster Seven   Talk  14:46, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * What editors seem to be missing and leaving out of their recaps of the incident is that Malleus was asked to cease and desist [40] by you and responded with a cold matter-of-fact No! [41]. When reminded, by me, [42] of common courtesy and to be a gentleman and retract his crude remark he again refused [43]. To me that is where his incivility lies and why this case should go forward. This is not about friends and foes lining up to take sides. His utterances of cunt, fuck, etc. are secondary. This is about coming to grips with our existence as a community and our commitment and requirement to be respectful toward each other. Malleus crossed the line. When asked to be a gentleman and conform to civility standards, he flatly refused...3 times in the same thread. That's not because of cultural differences. That's a lack of anger management. Buster Seven Talk (UTC)
 * Even if you are right Buster, there are wider considerations here. If Malleus is banned as a result of these specific shenanigans, there will be significant consequences to the credibility of Wikipedia as a place where competent editors will consider spending time. --Epipelagic (talk) 10:37, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I do not dislike Malleus. I dislike his actions, his word choices and his temper. I am challenged by my faith to bring Peace to arenas of War. I feel that little acts of anger corrupt what could be. They lead us astray and prevent the natural flow of collaboration. For some reason, I trust your reaching out to me. I probably will have less and less to say at the various pages about the incident. The fact that I was present (at the table so to speak) at the moment of Malleus' cursing is what has kept me responding and involved...and the fact that, long ago, an essay I wrote about Incivility came about because of interactions with Malleus. I hope he stays and lives a long and happy WikiLife. But, I want to live here too and I prefer a peaceful climate. I hope we meet again. TRA! Buster Seven   Talk  11:14, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Reply at Epipelagics talk:
 * Thank you Buster. I do not believe for a moment Malleus is in any way dishonourable. I believe he is profoundly hurt by the too many inexcusable, mean spirited and resentful attacks that have been made on him over a period of years, for no reason other than his huge competence as a contributor to Wikipedia. Malleus reacts badly to this vile treatment, and I think it is up to other Wikipedia editors to appreciate what is really going here, and give him some protection. As for the issues about the use of particular words, purely issues of where you happen to live, I couldn't care less. Anyway, my regards to you. Let's work towards what, in the long reach, actually matters. --Epipelagic (talk) 12:12, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm assuming you don't disapprove. :-) I find it's the most effective way to avoid sliding down that slippery slope myself! Deb (talk) 18:13, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't recall anything quite like that. To tell the truth, I don't think it's culture in the sense of regional or national differences that is the main problem.  I think it is the "alternative" culture of the internet which encourages people to behave badly - I'm not talking about any individual now, I could be talking about you or me.  Someone remarked on this: "On the internet no one knows who you are" - which gives you carte blanche to say and do things you wouldn't do in "real" life.  Younger people are really tuned into this (like my kids). That doesn't help with a solution, I know; but, if we are going to continue to be a cooperative community, there probably is a need for something along the lines of "Wikipedia citizenship".  Deb (talk) 22:05, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

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Re: happy holidays
Hi, it's a long time since we last talked :) Happy 2012 for you too. I'm not sure I want to re-open the can of worms, I am now more active with other wiki stuff outside of the English Wikipedia and don't spend much time here. Regards, SPQRobin (talk) 23:06, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Not a prblem. I understand. Negotiating changes with "them" is always a struggle. I hope I can call on you for some home spun advice should I need it. I don't look forward to it myself buy it really is an afront when for all intents and purpose Flemish does not exist on Wikipedia. Buster Seven   Talk  01:04, 7 January 2012 (UTC)


 * [[File:Merry_Christmas_and_Happy_New_Year_-_1908_Australian_postcard.png]] (talk) 10:26, 26 December 2011 (UTC).

Editor Fatuorum
Hello there. Ive also been using the title Editor for years now, for similar reasons to your good self. An issue with shortening MF's name to Fatuorum is that quite a few editors here know Latin, so they might read Editor Fatuorum as "Editor Fool(s)". If you want to use a short name for him Malleus translates to Hammer which makes a more appealing name? While Im here, much of your thinking on these issues seems excellent, so thanks very much for your input into the case! FeydHuxtable (talk) 13:55, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Much appreciated. As to Editor...as you then know, it takes time to change user to editor but during that change I find myself reflecting on the fact that there is a real human on the other side of that word...Editor. USER? What kind? Drug user? Alchhol user? Its a word that has negative connotations that may be subliminal. Maybe we can push for changing what we call each other...as a part of a new look at the civility vortex. I am not a User. I am an Editor. I edit, I don't just use. I create, I don't just consume. That someone can portray calling an editor, "Editor", as un-civil is amazing. Maybe it's the latin problem. Thanks, again? Buster Seven   Talk  14:16, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I know. It might be related the high proportion of editors who work in IT where its normal to call folk users. Perhaps its worth you starting a thread on the village pump, with a short opening post mentioning the negative connotations with user and the advantages of editor instead? Few efforts for positive change seem to fly unless the Foundation backs them and introduces them as a fait accomplani like with the excellent Wiki Love, but you might be lucky! If your replacement idea takes off it might also help attract in more diverse newbies. FeydHuxtable (talk) 14:31, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I find I'm often guilty of that myself ("user"). Now Buster7, you can fill me in on Greenberg! :-) Deb (talk) 16:25, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 09 January 2012

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Thanks
For the barnstar. Didn't even know there was such an award. Mjroots (talk) 08:43, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Timeline
Hi, and Happy new year if I missed you off me Christmas list :¬)

My intent was to simply use the time frame of events as correct, not any opinions he/she drew during their diatribe. I cannot immediately see how I can clarify that. I must admit it could be read as if I agreed with their opinion of why things were said/done, rather than just the timeline. If you can think of an easy insertion that will get around that problem please let me know.

I read your comments to him as simply stating a fact, certainly nothing culturally offensive. I hope this reassures you as I have never found you to be off in any way, quite the opposite in fact - encouraging, calming, constructive to name a few. Chaosdruid (talk) 10:09, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. No need to clarify at the case. My ruffled feathers have been soothed by your kind words. You are such an honorable editor that I felt, perhaps, I WAS being codnendrecending. But, no.
 * All is well. Buster Seven   Talk  15:16, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh dear, I just read your post on the evidence page, I guess your feathers were ruffled quite a bit after all.
 * My feathers were ruffled by the way it seemed that after the page had been redacted (not by MF to be fair), some 3.5 hours later the block was placed. As far as I could see, at the time the block was placed the offending statement had been removed. Obviously I could be mistaken, or have been influenced by others' agendas and whitewashing - as is the case with all Wikidramas it seems.
 * Anyway, I hope you feel a little better now, some of the things people say (and read into things) are silly - did you see all the venomous stuff coming out of the woodwork on the FA pages? I had started to do FA copy-editing and GA reviewing to try and gain better understanding of the processes before moving on to FAR and FAC later this year, not so much into that idea right now lol, I may well just stick to copy-editing and GAC/GAR :¬) Chaosdruid (talk) 17:38, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

100k
Thanks. That is a big one. Now, I'm grinding for 200k.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 08:09, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

TUSC token 690bdc1fe60c4b3ebc854a62494084bd
I am now proud owner of a TUSC account!
 * This didn't work. I may be the owner of a new TUSC, but I can't drive it without a password. I must not have done it in the correct sequence.  Wassup wit dat?Buster Seven   Talk  05:06, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

'scuse me, burp!
And according to to P.J. O'Rourke in a report issued last Tuesday, "Actually there is no way of making vomiting courteous. You have to do the next best thing, which is to vomit in such a way that the story you tell about it later will be amusing." Writegeist (talk) 08:21, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Flemish people/Flemish writers

 * trans fro WP:Help desk

How do I add names to a list on the above Category page? . There are at least a dozen reknowned Flemish Authors, that have articles, two of them Noble Prize winners, that are not listed. How do I add them? Clicking "edit" does not access the alphabetical lists. TY. §:~)--Buster Seven   Talk  07:55, 15 January 2012 (UTC)


 * You add an article to it by adding   to the foot of that article. -- Hoary (talk) 08:03, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah! Yes! TY! <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black">Buster Seven  <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black"> Talk  08:05, 15 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I see you added Category:Flemish people to some people who were already in Category:Flemish writers. We usually don't duplicate like that. See more at Categorization of people. You can get from Category:Flemish people to Category:Flemish writers via Category:Flemish people by occupation. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:31, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Re: A question
Yep, I wrote that. And I did have a specific person in mind when I wrote that. Unfortunately, it's going to take me a while to provide more than my own "this is how I remember the incident" -- viz., references so others can identify the actual incidents, & hopefully verifiable sources so the usual enablers don't insist that I'm just vilifying a poor innocent who is always being picked on by his enemies. (P.S. I am aware of the MF case before ArbCom.) -- llywrch (talk) 03:30, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * One of the more troubling aspects of my early days as a member of Wikipedia was discovering "lost souls". As with most "newbies" (I would guess) I'm was jumping here and there and everywhere. Reading articles, discovering the lay of the land, creating an exceptable user page, daring to make the occasional edit. And, also, looking for acceptance and maybe a little guidance. The discussion pages were filled with wonderful conversations and more than a little verbosity. Its an advantage to be able to get a feel for an editor and then be able to go to his/her user page and find some more about who they are. But...here's the rub. Often times that editor has given up...examples...


 * "I fought the good fight, but enough is enough",
 * "...the attacks become too personal, too mean-spirited",
 * "...I didnt sign up for this"
 * "I was really wasting my time...."
 * "It was enormously fun at first, but not anymore"
 * "...please make Wikipedia not suck!"
 * "......because I was spending more time defending articles than improving them"
 * "...the futility of spending time editing at WP"
 * "WP said it had no need of me"
 * "I dont believe I can successfully contribute content of any value without it being destroyed by the vicisstitudes of WP politics"
 * "I understand why so many have left"
 * "You have once again bitten a newbie to death"
 * "I've packed my bags, and I'm out of here. Good luck "
 * "I quit editing Wikipedia for almost a year after dealing with uncivil editors and non-stop obstructionists and on one page the incivility was harsh and Jimmy W was on that talk page and said nothing. Setting an example starts from above.

Perhaps the "newbie" gets involved with an article at a level that they are just not ready for---they are too inexpierienced. Or, they get enbroiled in an editing war with a bureaucratic editor or administrator or a seasoned wily veteran. WikiJargon starts to flow, things get said, threats are made, names are "called", the newbie is discouraged. The Wiki-Experience changes. For some...the Wiki-Experience ends! <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black">Buster Seven  <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black"> Talk  07:33, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Love defeats Hatred: News at 11

 * Imagine all the people... living life in peace. You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. TRA! - Hydroxonium (T•C• [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers&limit=1&amp;username=Hydroxonium V] ) 03:10, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Re. another question
When, as I'm sure sometimes happens to you, and as happened here earlier today, a bemused visitor from another world lands a slinky flexfuel Venus Runabout GT flying saucer on one's balcony and asks the meaning of "the pot calling the kettle black", we can do no better, I think, than to direct her here for an explanation and here for an example. Thus enlightened and amused, my visitor this morning refuelled her vehicle with a single pumpkin seed for the return trip, and took her leave. Writegeist (talk) 00:23, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 16 January 2012
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Greenspan
Thanks for the education on this writer. I've learned a lot about interpersonal skills while I've been on this project, but clearly I have an awfully long way to go! :-) Keep in touch. Deb (talk) 08:08, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

You are not a party
, therefore your reply needs to be moved. Also, on what authority do you speak for Deb? Malleus Fatuorum 23:25, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You are right. I am not a party. I was, if you recall, in very close proximity to the party. In hindsight I should have insisted on being included as a member of the party when this case began. Perhaps a clerk will move it if asked. I consider it appropriate where I placed it. I don't speak for Deb. I speak for myself. You chose the word offensive. <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black">Buster Seven  <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black"> Talk  00:10, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You spoke for Deb, which you had no right to do This isn't a party in the sense of a congenial get together that you can choose to join, it's a party in the dispute. In what way might you be considered to be a party in the dispute? Malleus Fatuorum 00:25, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I took part in the dispute. I commented in between Editor Deb's requests. <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black">Buster Seven  <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black"> Talk  05:06, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Wait. I was never invited to the party. And yet, I was at the party. Are you sure we're talking about the same party? The one where you think I wasn't a party? I think I was at that party. Some thought I wasn't a party to that party but I think I should have been. A party, that is. Is that the party where you used questionable language and someone asked you to retract and you told her no and then I tried to remind you to be a gentleman and you pretty much ignored me and then she asked again and you claimed she was some kind of hermit that never got out of her house. And then someone banned you for a short while. And then someone else unbanned you. Was it that party? 'Cause I think I should have been considered a party to that party. O well! Is that party over yet? Have all the guests gone home? I heard there was some kind of blackout that really slowed things to a complete stop. I thought the middle-party party that happened after the initial party was interesting. Everyone was referring to "the Case"??? A case of beer??? A case of wine??? I know I learned alot and met alot of new people. I'm always trying to "Stay Aware" so I can remain fluid and alive. Awareness (or the ability to take a new action) plays a very big part in human nature. Since I'm considered human I guess its a big part of me. Good manners are too. When I step on someones toe or cut someone off in traffic, almost always, I am aware of my mistake and I at least acknowledge it and I work at not making that mistake again. Most times I apologize. Not always but most of the time. I see alot of great potential for gatherings once the clean-up from the party is over. There's alot to talk about...or should I say type about. It would be easier if we could talk about it but I guess we'll have to settle for typing. Alot more miss-steps and misunderstandings...but what can we do? Chat on the phone? Luckily we all, pretty much, use the same words when we type and we all, pretty much, can read between the lines and can decifer if some words are friendly or, sadly, mean. I promise you this... I never intend to be mean. If you read mean in something I type you need to read it again and find a different interpretation. I can't say that I wasn't ever mean. But it didn't work and I didn't like who I was when I was mean so I stopped. Awareness...<em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black">Buster Seven  <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black"> Talk  09:07, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Tallulah Bankhead, after a party given by Dorothy Parker: "The less I behave like Whistler's Mother the night before, the more I look like her the morning after." Writegeist (talk) 10:31, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I just rocked over the cats tail. <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black">Buster Seven  <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black"> Talk  07:24, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Too kind!
Im not sure I deserve that barnstar, but it was still great to receive. Thanks very much! FeydHuxtable (talk) 16:17, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I just created a new userbox. Hope you like it. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">Let's talk <sub style="color:#008000;">about my edits? 03:17, 24 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I do. I will begin to distribute it along with up-coming congratulations...<em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black">Buster Seven  <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black"> Talk  03:57, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

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