User talk:BusterD/Archive 11

United_Nations_General_Assembly
Hi BusterD I'm rather new to editing wikipedia articles, I didn't know how I should add the source in that case cause there is only one source for the whole section so If I added the source number at the end of the phrase it could be seen as everthing above that was also coming from that source. For now I will add my source at the end of the phrase and add the same source link above the phrase, as the one at the end of the section, don't know if that's the best solution if not, change it as you see best, at least the source will be there. Plus the source is a table of numbers I did the calculations my self, hope that's satifactory; anyway it'll be better then what is now, cause I didn't find any information on the current source link with regards to that which I edited. thx for your patience. JonyRijo (talk) 01:52, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

E. Power. Biggs
Irrelvant/unrelated message. This is a HUGE university and there are over 500 computers just in this Professors' Lab and Research Center (off limits to students). However I am sure that Dr. Whoever-it-was would not appreciate his work being deleted. You might want to restore his edits as they were, as I am sure he - like I - would just revert the reversions the next time he checked the page if the same thing were to happen to me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.131.186.122 (talk) 04:10, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

WP:NORUSH
BusterD, im sorry for posting on ur page. My little brother got on the wiki and just started screwing around with the Drizzt Do'Urden page.Also pls tell me how to message people i dunno how. Thanx and sorry... Karesaw. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karesaw (talk • contribs) 00:58, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi Buster. I was wondering what advice or perspective you might have about the conflict between WP:NORUSH and the need for someone in my position to get things done at a reasonable pace.

There is one article that was originally shared on the Talk page in December '11 and was added as a Request Edit almost 3 months ago. Of course, I see how impatient COIs can be, but I also can't reasonably operate on a multi-year timeline. I know I could use OTRS, but also that they don't participate directly in content issues.

This article in particular is just an example, and not something for us to get into - I am just asking the question generally.

Corporate 00:47, 1 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I believe I've said before that WP:NORUSH seems to be a cleavage point for regular Wikipedians and paid advocates. Generally speaking, mostly being volunteers, Wikipedia contributors do work they are willing to do, and in the pace they prefer. While an editor can certainly request another to contribute in a specific way, there are few guarantees or pressures which can move an editor to respond to such a request. I can understand why you "can't reasonably operate on a multi-year timeline." This has been and is a disadvantage to paid advocates. I can only suggest entity clients should be forewarned that timescales with which they are accustomed to experiencing with many social media platforms may not directly apply to this particular encyclopedic platform. To my view, this one reason why so many smart people become willing to risk getting caught editing in COI situations, and so attempt to mask their involvement to reduce the risk. BusterD (talk) 12:04, 1 October 2012 (UTC)


 * FYI. As my mentor, I figured you should know about the issue. Corporate 00:17, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Patrolled new articles
Hi Buster, I think what you're looking for is detailed here New pages patrol/patrolled pages. Also, when you say you "lost your curation toolbar" - try looking in the "toolbox" section in the left hand column when looking at an unpatrolled article. There should be an option to "curate this article" which, when clicked, will pop the toolbar back again. Wittylama 04:43, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info; that's where I'd rediscovered the toolbar. On rereading the page you linked above, I see I've been neglecting to mark as patrolled pages I've CSD tagged, prodded or AfDed. Somehow I missed that on the first couple of readings. That was precisely the poor assumption I'd made. Live and learn. BusterD (talk) 04:52, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * What a nice thing to do. And here I only got you a proposed deletion tag on your new page creation... BusterD (talk) 05:46, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Closing instructions
I had to check to see if you were an admin making the statement:


 * "Admins do not, as the user says below, "sift through the wheat and the chaff". Closing admins do not themselves weigh into the discussion deciding, for example, whether policy trumps guideline. The closer weighs the merits of the discussion itself and is trusted to measure the consensus inside the discussion."

Since the third sentence "the closer weighs the merits" is identical to the statement "sift through the wheat and the chaff" I think that you understand a little bit about the WP:RMCI closing instructions, but are perhaps not familiar with the wheat and chaff expression?

As to:
 * "a lone voice, with an historic but unimpressive position"

You will note in the closing instructions that even if a thousand people think that Black Eyed Peas should be moved to bLLaacckk EYED peAS, the closer is instructed to ignore all of them and not move the article. Most of my time, and of most editors, is not spent worrying about whether a dash is a few micrometers longer than it should be or a few micrometers shorter than it should be, but in fixing more serious errors and adding new content. There are very few editors I would say who even know what an endash is, and while it can be annoying to have a copyeditor come and adjust text to correctly put in endashes and emdashes, they clearly should not be used incorrectly, as in for example in any name. I have looked at a suggested style guide, New Hart's Rules, and while it will take me some time to go through all 432 pages so far I can see that it agrees with our MOS that names use hyphens, and by "names" they mean "proper nouns". What they also say is that a consistency is better than trying to possibly introduce errors in fixing a consistent style:

On the importance of style:
 * "Stylistic consistency is an important characteristic of published material because it removes one possible cause of interference between the text and the reader. Inconsistent styling, whether of the words themselves or their presentation on the page, may distract or even mislead, and can affect the credibility of a publication, just as a work that is well finished in these respects can project an air of general reliability."

and:
 * "It is, of course, vital to make sure that individual forms are used consistently within a single text or range of texts. If an author has consistently applied a scheme of hyphenation, an editor need not alter it, although a text littered with hyphens can look fussy and dated. Editors can find the dominant form of a particular compound in a suitable current dictionary such as the New Oxford Dictionary for Writers and Editors."

On the lack of importance of changing a consistent style:
 * "How much importance is attached to house style in the case of separate works, however, depends on the policy and traditions of the publisher. In some cases it may be unnecessary or even unwarrantable to impose house style. Where an author has attended carefully and consistently to editorial style and the conventions pose no practical difficulties they may be best left alone: the copy-editor can probably spend editorial time more usefully than in overturning a serviceable and watertight system of editorial decisions, and an imperfect conversion of the author's to the publisher's style will damage rather than improve the work. On the other hand two factors should be noted: it is easier for an experienced copy-editor to impose a familiar house style than to learn an author's style and to check that it has, in fact, been consistently applied; further, those handling the later stages of a book's production may assume that house style has been used and may unwittingly compromise the consistency of the text by making corrections that match house style rather than the author's own style.


 * Even when house style is in use, it may need to be adapted to the special requirements of particular works. For example, in a historical context modern spellings of place names might be inappropriate; and in a specialist context general practice should not supplant scholarly usage of foreign words or technical terms."

Anyway, I am clearly not the only one who both knows what an endash is and knows that it should not be used in names, such as Mexican American War. But I can assure you that my first task will not be reopening the RM but in building consensus so that everyone understands what the MOS actually says about hyphens and endashes - hyphens are used in proper nouns, endashes are used sometimes, elsewhere. That is clearly what the vast majority of editors have been doing who have been editing books that use a reference to "Mexican American War".

New Hart's Rules also notes a US style of using an endash for "post–World War I". Clearly that makes it a British English vs. American English issue and I would hope that none of the endash warriors are changing post-World War I to post–World War I. Apteva (talk) 16:36, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The wall of text is impressive, I'll grant. It's clear you have a strong sense of correctness in your position. It's too bad few seem to agree with you. BusterD (talk) 16:59, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
 * No problem. Everyone learns at their own pace. I started editing WP to fix an error, and I still find errors now and then. I am not saying I am right all the time, I just want proof that I might be wrong, if I am. Verifiability, right? Apteva (talk) 18:36, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Page Curation newsletter - closing up!
Hey all :).

We're (very shortly) closing down this development cycle for Page Curation. It's genuinely been a pleasure to talk with you all and build software that is so close to my own heart, and also so effective. The current backlog is 9 days, and I've never seen it that low before.

However! Closing up shop does not mean not making any improvements. First-off, this is your last chance to give us a poke about unresolved bugs or report new ones on the talkpage. If something's going wrong, we want to know about it :). Second, we'll hopefully be taking another pass over the software next year. If you've got ideas for features Page Curation doesn't currently have, stick them here.

Again, it's been an honour. Thanks :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 12:15, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Quick question
I started improving the article on Brand management and ended up realizing there are 22 articles on branding that could be consolidated into about 5. I've started posting a couple merge suggestions. Is there a formal process like AfD for getting consensus or is it more of a be bold situation for merges?

Corporate 19:59, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Not sure. I would think this would depend somewhat on how many editors are involved in those page creations. If it's a situation where you can actually contact the major editors directly via talk, you may be able to do boldness. If on the other hand there are a bunch of folks involved, I'd recommend proposing merges on talk using the normal merge template. Before this you might want to create a unified merge plan so this can either be linked or applied as a block into the merge proposal, then discussed by those concerned. You might create such a plan in your space, then invite several interested editors to discuss this prior to introducing the merge. It may not become that complicated.


 * Sorry about what happened with User:Cantaloupe2. I disagree with the way that editor made the changes, but I chose not to involve myself directly. It occurred to me that dealing with such a dedicated editor could get way worse. What if, as an example, corporations began hiring consultants such as yourself to degrade and muck up satisfactory pagespace of competitors. The backend to paid advocacy could get really complex. BusterD (talk) 05:03, 27 October 2012 (UTC)


 * His complaints aren't unwarranted though.


 * I am working on bringing the CIPR article up to GA status, then the PRSA article next. What I would like to do eventually, is make almost every article I contribute to with a COI a GA article. This way companies can "approve" the initial copy that is contributed following the Bright Line, but they acknowledge that 3 months later when a GA reviewer comes by, I will improve the article to meet their standards as a free agent.


 * This gives the company the comfort of being able to "approve" the copy through their corporate bureaucracy, but releases me from the shackles of the corporate process to improve it later on based on feedback. And it guarantees the article will be vetted thoroughly. I don't know if it's realistic, but it's a good idea. I'm also uncertain how GA reviewers would feel about getting so many COI submissions from one person.


 * A big part of doing this right is picking the right clients and partners as well and I feel I am making some headway there, though obviously the details are not appropriate for a public forum such as this.  Corporate 15:53, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Good articles
Just a heads up, I'm working on creating a few GA articles on a volunteer basis:
 * Chartered Institute of Public Relations (nominated)
 * Public Relations Society of America (nominated, but still unstable)
 * Waggener Edstrom (not nominated yet)
 * Edelman (firm) (next)

Creating GA articles with a COI is more difficult but that's my target eventually. Corporate 18:59, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 4
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Azor Orne, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Whig and John Glover (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Hi Buster,

Yeah, I'm the one who edited that page about Kelley. I had completely forgotten about that it was quite a while back. Anyway just wanted to let you know I appreciate you simply changing it and sending me such a polite note. I don't intend to be changing anymore pages like that it was merely a one time joke. Thanks for being a good sport :D — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.59.94.29 (talk) 04:43, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Obama Wins!
Hi, Buster. It's nice to see you participating in South Park articles. Having met you at the Meetups, I hope this means there's another good editor who's taken an interest in those articles, since they could use more veteran editors who understand policy. Just one thing, though: All of the material to which you added citations in Obama Wins! article--the chicken joke, Cartman's demand for a blaster and a character named "Jewbacca", the Red Lobster--are explicitly seen or mentioned in the episode. For the purposes of WP:V, narrative works such as TV episodes (as well as films, books, etc.) function as their own primary sources for their own content, as explained at WP:TVPLOT and WP:FILMPLOT. Citations of secondary sources are only needed for material that is evaluative, analytical or interpretative, which none of these things are. Just thought you should know. Thanks again. :-) Nightscream (talk) 16:36, 8 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I don't work on a lot of fiction, or television for that matter. I've been watching the last few episode pages and have clearly misunderstood the warring going on between folks who wish to add cultural references and editors like yourself. I know that trivia sections like the cultural references are discouraged, generally speaking. It seems the Onion's AV club is pretty reliable about reviewing the episode the same evening. I'll continue to watch and help. BusterD (talk) 22:44, 8 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Again, the battles you mention that I often wage without others (usually anonymous IP newbies and one-off editors, as well as the occasional established editor like User:Hearfourmewesique) can be really draining, so please, I encourage you stick around to remove that stuff when people add it. I tend to semiprotect the articles for the first six months after they debut, but it doesn't stop editors from adding it anyway, sometimes by singing in just to do so, or adding it after the protection is lifted. I've had more than once IP editor attack me for this on my talk page or the episodes' talk page, so and I could use more established editors to show these people that it's not just me who takes this position. Nightscream (talk) 02:26, 9 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Which user? And how does it violate policy? Nightscream (talk) 04:56, 15 November 2012 (UTC)


 * O. Long Johnson? Seems like right out of Fistful of Yen (see game show announcer) in The Kentucky Fried Movie. Likely to offend, shows a clear intent to disrupt. BusterD (talk) 05:01, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

This is not a newsletter
This is just a tribute.

Anyway. You're getting this note because you've participated in discussion and/or asked for updates to either the Article Feedback Tool or Page Curation. This isn't about either of those things, I'm afraid ;p. We've recently started working on yet another project: Echo, a notifications system to augment the watchlist. There's not much information at the moment, because we're still working out the scope and the concepts, but if you're interested in further updates you can sign up here.

In addition, we'll be holding an office hours session at 21:00 UTC on Wednesday, 14 November in #wikimedia-office - hope to see you all there :). I appreciate it's an annoying time for non-Europeans: if you're interested in chatting about the project but can't make it, give me a shout and I can set up another session if there's enough interest in one particular timezone or a skype call if there isn't. Thanks! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 10:50, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Credit Suisse
Hi Buster. I was wondering if you had time if you could take a look at my work on Credit Suisse. I would like to bring it up to GA eventually, but not sure where to focus my efforts at this point. I'm looking at comparable articles like UBS, but I'm not sure I like the sponsorships, CSR, and management sections unless there are compelling sources. Not sure where to direct my efforts on continuing to improve the article. Corporate 02:14, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I've been unexpectedly AFK since Thanksgiving. This may last a week or so. Sorry for not responding earlier. BusterD (talk) 18:14, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * No problem. I went ahead and GA nominated it, but still happy to get any feedback.
 * I know our editors are somewhat rotating - hopefully all the Wiki-breaks and retiring signs aren't just a sign of the times with declining editor participation. So if you're checking-out sort of speak or just not active and want me to buzz off that's ok ;-)
 * I think my position will always be a little contentious - the same way PRs can have a tenuous relationship with journalists, but it's not really a big deal as long as we stick to Talk pages. The same way the Newt Gingrich Comms Directors makes a lot of unreasonable requests, but so long as we're on the Talk page there's no harm in asking. Corporate 20:12, 3 December 2012 (UTC)


 * BTW, do you have any tips on how to avoid writing articles that just string a long a series of events. I feel like its hard to avoid making every sentence say "In " Corporate 02:01, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Press releases by lobbyist groups do not constitute reliable sources under Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources 3.1
A lobbyist group cannot claim a FICTIONAL future race to be their own as MANAA are doing through self promotion on Cloud Atlas(Casting controversy).

You do Wikipedia a disservice by protecting their self promotion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pepto coffee (talk • contribs) 23:30, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Discuss this on the Talk:Cloud Atlas (film) page. BusterD (talk) 04:43, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Richard Nixon talk page notice
I have added a section on the talk page for the article Richard Nixon titled "Section deleted on 13 December 2012." Please share your thoughts on the talk page. Thanks. Mitchumch (talk) 16:51, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Holiday Greetings


Nightscream (talk) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Don't eat yellow snow!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding to their talk page with a friendly message.

Category:Geography of Queens County, New York
Category:Geography of Queens County, New York, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 20:49, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Category:Landforms of Queens County, New York
Category:Landforms of Queens County, New York, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 20:53, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit warring at VSP
Arzel has begun edit warring the article again. --CartoonDiablo (talk) 20:29, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Also there is a second attempt to delete the article, if you give your input, it would be much appreciated. Thanks. CartoonDiablo (talk) 23:54, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Bush Derangement Syndrome for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Bush Derangement Syndrome is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Bush Derangement Syndrome (6th nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Yworo (talk) 18:10, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

COI template
I have initiated a discussion at Village Pump Proposals regarding applying Template:COI editnotice more broadly, in order to provide advice from WP:COI directly onto the article Talk page. Your comment, support or opposition is invited. Cheers. CorporateM (Talk) 19:49, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Revisions to JEB Stuart Wiki
BusterD,

Your removal of my edit is, respectfully, misplaced. Mosby's Memoirs meet the reliable source guidelines because he sets out in painstaking detail the arguments by authors after the war and without inserting his own opinion, shows how they could not possibly be true. The article setting forth opposition to Stuards

That Mosby also gives a first hand account is likewise a part of the reliability guidelines.

Unless you have another rule that I am unaware of, I will undo that revision. John Singleton Mosby (talk) 21:37, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe you're confusing me with editor User:Hlj. You and he seem to disagree about memoirs being included in what we deem reliable sources. Per WP:IRS, traditionally we only use first-person sources WITH secondary source backup, because primary sources can be easily misused by one not trained in their use. Please address your concerns to user Hlj.


 * In the case of David Hunter, I couldn't see a reliable source which called Hunter's 1886 death a suicide. The standard biography, Lincoln's Abolitionist General: The Biography of David Hunter refers to accusations of suicide in its first pages, but finds them unsupported by the record. I reverted the edit because I could find no verification of your assertion, and you should have provided such a source when you inserted the assertion. BusterD (talk) 22:40, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Part of my post was cut off and I apologize. In terms of David Hunter, would a period news article suffice in your opinion?

John Singleton Mosby (talk) 23:03, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I've taken the liberty of copying our exchange to Hal's talk page. Could you provide a link to your news article source? You see, Miller's scholarly biography of Hunter is quite clear that he did NOT die by his own hand, but points out some biographers as recent as 1939 said he did. I'd be interested in the source you intended to use. BusterD (talk) 23:10, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

BusterD...I am trying to locate that newspaper clipping...It was a scan posted online and only in a very short paragraph. It may be that another David Hunter committed suicide in Washington, DC as opposed to Gen. David Hunter.

John Singleton Mosby (talk) 02:26, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Revisions to W.W. Loring and Others (?)
Buster D,

My intent was to expand the listings of novels in which a particular Civil War figure appears as a major character, following the examples "In popular media." I read a lot of these things, and have sometimes discovered good books because they were mentioned in an "In popular media" section, so I'm trying to give back.

Most of the things I did referred to more than one work, in some cases as many as half a dozen. I don't see how a reference to "Stonewall Goes West" can be promotional, when my repeat references to "Bright Starry Banner," "Shiloh," or "A Blaze of Glory" are not. I also see that Christopher Losson's "Tennessee's Forgotten Warrior's" and Sam Davis Elliot's "Soldier of Tennessee -- the only biographies currently in print for Frank Cheatham and A.P. Stewart respectively -- were redacted from their entries.

If you made all those cuts yourself, I don't understand your choices. What is your basis for picking one novel over another as "promotional," and what is your basis for striking biographies -- hard works of scholarly non-fiction -- altogether? Johnwalton71 (talk) 13:01, 15 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Follow-up: More than a month later, and no response to my request for clarification. That pretty much confirms all the negative things I've read in the media about Wikipedia, and thus terminates my interest in contributing to both this website and to Wikimedia Commons.Johnwalton71 (talk) 14:48, 17 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I've commented at User talk:Johnwalton71. Pam  D  18:54, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Happy Memorial Day!


 Zappa  O  Mati   is wishing you a Happy Memorial Day! On this day, we recognize our fellow countrymen who have fought our nation's battles for the past several hundred years, protecting our freedom and safety. We remember those who paid the ultimate price and we support those who continue to willingly sacrifice their safety for the sake of their country. Happy Memorial Day!

Share this message by adding {{subst:Memorial Day}} to a fellow American's talk page.

Lists of municipal authorities
I'd happily support a mass deletion of most (perhaps all) of those lists. Niteshift36 (talk) 13:25, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
 * It seems bundling all of the "by county" pages in a singe deletion procedure would be entirely appropriate. They all fail notability criteria in an identical way, IMHO. BusterD (talk) 13:53, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Not sure when I'll have time to do that many at once. Please let me know if you do a nom. Niteshift36 (talk) 14:39, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Took me about 45 minutes. I've never done a bundled procedure nearly that large before, so I hope I didn't goof anywhere... BusterD (talk) 16:54, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Very nice of you to say. Sure hope it doesn't become difficult to close. BusterD (talk) 22:21, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Stu Klitenic for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether if Stu Klitenic should be deleted or not. The conversation will be held at the Articles for deletion/Stu Klitenic until a consensus is held and everyone is welcome to join the conversation. However, do not remove the AfD message on the top of the page. Ashbeckjonathan 04:01, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Final words
In that case, do you want to hear my final words before I retire for good? Here it is: If you demand a warning to me, I am going to return the favor: stay off my talk page because I just prepared for retirement. There you have it; those were my final words. Now will you excuse me, I am going to retirement right now. Thank you. Ashbeckjonathan 02:06, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Publishers Clearing House
Hi Buster. It's been a while since we've had a mentor/student engagement. This article is one of the more complex I've done from a COI perspective, in particular because much of their history is contentious/controversial and because of the dynamic with other editors, a history of poor COI editing, etc. I'd be curious if you felt I was handling myself appropriately or if you had any advice. CorporateM (Talk) 03:10, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Give me a day or two to read. Nice to hear from you. BusterD (talk) 13:16, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * BTW - I finally picked up an apprentice of my own. CorporateM (Talk) 22:26, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Refactoring
Re your message of today, about removing an obsolete section on the Talk page.

When an item is clearly obsolete, what is the drill for getting it removed? Do we simply add a comment to that effect?

I have had several of my own Talk-page items removed without my knowledge, and don't know if there is an official editor who performs this function.

Also, you say not to correct literals. Does this only apply to the Talk page, or are we not meant to correct literals on the main articles? Valetude (talk) 14:55, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * When a commented issue has been addressed and resolved, we simply leave the comment for others to see later. If an editor wishes to comment the issue is resolved, this is just fine, based on my experience.
 * Looking at your "own talk page", I see nothing which has been removed by others. If by your statement you mean you have experienced article talk page posts being removed, I don't see that in your recent editing history. It's not uncommon for pagespace contributions to be reverted and edited, but generally speaking, wikipedians don't edit each others' comments, per Talk page guidelines. If you have an example you'd want to discuss, please point it out to me.
 * I don't see the word "literals" used in the message I left on your talk, so I don't understand your last question. BusterD (talk) 15:09, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Category that responds to your question
This category should answer your question. --Orlady (talk) 04:45, 12 July 2013 (UTC)



IRC office hours for wiki-mentors and Snuggle users
Hi. We're organizing an office hours session with the Teahouse to bring in mentors from across the wiki to and discuss it's potential to support mentorship broadly. The Snuggle team would appreciate it if you would come and participate in the discussion. We'll be having it in on '''Wed. July 17th @ 1600 UTC'''. See the agenda for more info. -- EpochFail (talk &bull; work), Technical 13 (talk), TheOriginalSoni (talk) 17:19, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi! I just wanted to post a reminder that this discussion will be happening in about 24 hours.  If you haven't already used Snuggle, I recommend giving it a try before the meeting.  I'll be in  a half hour early to answer any questions you have.   -- EpochFail  (talk &bull; work) 16:17, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

LMA
Leave me alone! You are bothering me; I take your comment at the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tom Crabtree (journalist) as an insult, knock it off! WisconsinBoyClevelandRocks228844 (talk) 17:33, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Besides, I am autistic and I don't know any better. WisconsinBoyClevelandRocks228844 (talk) 17:43, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

SignPost
I guess I am doing a Q&A type thing for the Signpost (link). Would be interested in any input/thoughts. BTW - I am up to 10+ GAs with about half of them being COI. Would like to work up to FAs eventually. CorporateM (Talk) 08:41, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
 * My first thoughts are congratulations and good for you. Your works make me happy I offered to help. Once you understood the concept of wikipedia quality scale, you seemed to see how you could make the kinds of normal contributions the pedia expects everyone to make. I might suggest you go back over some of the signpost Paid Editing articles written over the past couple of years and see if there are questions previously asked (of others) which you'd like to answer differently. I don't think you've written anything controversial in the SP page, but I think what's there needs more "oomph". I'll reread it later and give you more info. As it turns out, I'm moving this weekend (hopefully for the last time in a while). BusterD (talk) 12:54, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Buddha messed up
Someone has badly edited the Buddha page: image was lost, and some ref damaged. I hesitate to undo all from 9/11 but this may be required to locate the spurious edits. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.73.22.113 (talk) 18:06, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Question
So I am looking at some of the Featured Articles associated with WikiProject Companies and was really surprised by the content. Being that they are Featured (or were featured at some point) it sort of made me scratch my head at if the article had just degraded or this kind of language/content was considered acceptable.

For example, BAE Systems says "BAE Systems is the successor to many of the most famous British aircraft, defence electronics and warship manufacturers...the "groundbreaking"[5] Blue Vixen radar" and "were said to be keen" and the article on Icos says "George Rathmann, seen as a guiding father to Icos".

Seeing this kind of language in Featured Articles made me wonder if I should "fix" it or if I've gone overboard in writing dry text. Assuming it's supported by the sources, is this considered neutral? CorporateM (Talk) 20:53, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * It's important to remember that the BAE Systems article was promoted to FA in 2007. Primary contributor User:Mark83 is from Northern Ireland, and is an inactive administrator. Here is the version which got the star. Note the phrase "said to be keen" appears in that version. The word "Groundbreaking" is cited (then and now). Imagine how the wiki-world has changed since that promotion. BAE might not pass if it were to undergo a FA review now. That said, it's impressive how little language has changed since that version. If you wanted to look at an article, I'd suggest DriveSavers. This page was deleted a couple of years ago as purely promotional. Looks like the new editor is either following your route, or has learned from the old failure. The page is still way promotional, but the author has anchored the text with stacks of solid RS. Might be a potential consult... BusterD (talk) 23:54, 17 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Awww, so you mean, Wikipedia's standards for neutrality have increased since it was passed as FA. CorporateM (Talk) 02:11, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Not to be flip, but the pedia's standards for neutrality have increased radically in the time since you've joined the community. 2007 was still the wild wild west around here. BusterD (talk) 02:20, 18 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the context! I was going to do another study on how many articles show signs of PR editing, but I found most articles showed some of the similar editing habits, even though they probably weren't edited by anyone with a COI. I'll take a look at DriveSavers. CorporateM (Talk) 15:14, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Quick question: what is the normal (non-COI) way to obtain a mentor? Is there a page? Asking for someone else. CorporateM (Talk) 14:20, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Adopt-a-user/Adoptee's Area/Adopters. A user could also ask someone with which they've worked previously. Say, an administrator or project leader with serious time in the project. Sorry I haven't been available much. The new job has me swamped. BusterD (talk) 19:55, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Official Records of the American Civil War
BusterD, I believe all my links have met the Wikipedia criteria. The links go directly to primary source material. The Cornell U. link has digital images, the Ohio State links on some Civil war sites are for OCR'd text only, and I'm linking to primary source material with both digital images and OCR'd text in one site. This is useful for Civil War researchers. I'm new to Wikipedia editing so I do appreciate your patience and guidance. Thanks for your input.AlysonMansfield (talk) 02:35, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Battle of Ball's Bluff; Chickamauga Campaign; Hatteras Inlet Batteries
BusterD, Again, these links are for primary source material only that is valuable to anyone who wants to research the topic beyond the abbreviated length of a Wikipedia article. "Some acceptable links include those that contain further research that is accurate and on-topic, information that could not be added to the article for reasons such as copyright or amount of detail, or other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article for reasons unrelated to its accuracy." And under "What can normally be linked" "Sites that contain neutral and accurate material that is relevant to an encyclopedic understanding of the subject and cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article due to copyright issues,[3] amount of detail (such as professional athlete statistics, movie or television credits, interview transcripts, or online textbooks), or other reasons." Thanks for your concern.

User page
Is there anything inappropriate or against policy regarding the call-for-action I just placed at the top of my user page? CorporateM (Talk) 13:38, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
 * User pages generally can be treated however the user wants, WP:SOAPBOX notwithstanding. There are limits, as explained in the soapbox link. I couldn't treat my userpage as a billboard for a candidate or product or campaign. It could be reasonably argued that your notice approaches campaign (which btw includes vague reference to WP:LEGALTHREAT). I'd be more concerned that your notice doesn't better explain its purpose. Maybe time to create a new essay about the dangers involved in ignoring covert COIs and extending good faith where AGF has led to multiple gentle suicides. It would be wise to gather some consensus for your position. Expect someone to come at you to weigh the merits of what you do openly as a paid advocate versus what so many others do under cover of ip and single user account. BusterD (talk) 14:32, 13 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I've toned it down a bit. I will see if there is a place I can ask RE legal threat and campaign. After all my time doing this, I think I've finally come full-circle to the same place User:Dennis Brown reached ages ago. There is no consensus and the issues are highly situational. It's more of an emotional issue than one where there is a lot of thoughtful and progressive discussion. I would rather pursue the legal path, because I think the FTC sets much clearer guidelines than Wikipedia ever will. When I talk to folks in Germany, they are much more cautious and understanding as a result of the court case, which they are all familiar with. CorporateM (Talk) 16:41, 13 October 2013 (UTC)