User talk:Buttress

its been up for over 5 years and now all of a suddon its advertising and a problem??? Are you kidding me.

Your recent edits
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Avalon/Stone Harbor
You stated on my talk page regarding links removed from the articles for Avalon, New Jersey and Stone Harbor, New Jersey that "the link gives users the ability to find all info on one page without navigating to multiple websites. Its been on wiki for YEARS leave it alone." That it's been on the articles for a long of time is not relevant; just as a long-standing error would be corrected on factual matters, long-standing use of a non-compliant link does not justify retention. The first claim, that it includes relevant material might carry some weight, but in looking at Wikipedia policy on external links, the fact that the material on the website is either already in the article or available elsewhere from reliable and verifiable sources, combined with the fact that the site is primarily aimed at drawing people to advertisements for real estate, makes the link non-compliant. If anyone is looking for real estate AND information about Avalon or Stone Harbor, they will find your website. Readers looking for factual information about Avalon or Stone Harbor without any advertising can find it on Wikipedia. Alansohn (talk) 18:17, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I would also suggest that you review Wikipedia policy on edit warring, as the reverts that you have done so far on the article place you at or beyond the limit where you can be blocked for such reverts. Alansohn (talk) 18:19, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

My argument holds more than some weight. I am not directing people to a Real Estate website but a web page about Avalon NJ. That is the arguement period. I am sorry but I will fight tooth and nail to keep this link live it was fine for years. The big question is who and what is it hurting? Its useful info that helps thousands of people.
 * An error or policy violation uncorrected for years is still an error or policy violation and still needs to be corrected. No one reviewed the link and said it was fine; What happened is that no one realized that the link violates policy. A review of the article history shows that I am not the only editor to feel that the link is inappropriate. I could think of a billion things that would pass the "who does it hurt" test: a recipe for fried bananas and pickled herring sandwiches, a laundry list, a copy of the Avalon phone book, and 999,999,997 other possible additions, nor does your determination to turn this into a prolonged battle constitute an argument for retention. The link is not a reliable and verifiable source and if there is any useful information there, I will be happy to add it to the Wikipedia article, but otherwise the links need to be removed per Wikipedia policy on external links. Alansohn (talk) 21:18, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Clearly no one needed to remove the link because there was no issue with it. Who does it hurt? Are you a complete fool???? Beachcomber link is spot on relevant info about Avalon...why did that not get removed by you? You attack my link yet leave all the other links which have absolutely no relevance to avalon or are what you claim is a legitimate link. This web page clearly offers users a wealth of information about the community of avalon, on one easy to navigate page, and is what it states an Avalon community guide  Period. And has been for over 5 years. Due to a simple website upgrade I had to fix a broken link. The other links are broken and yet you feel no need to remove them. Furthermore they offer NO information about avalon. This is a clear cut case of a personal vendetta you have towards me. I will not stand for it. The link is not spam leave it alone. On top of which this is an interpretation of the "law". Call me any time I'll debate you for hours!! 609-425-7442 The link is staying up Furthermore to prove that this is a personal vendetta against me I will be checking every single shore town to see if you are removing links from those towns as well. HAHA what a joke!! you people are unreal you break my down but leave the links that dont even work up and running!! I can do this all day long I really dont care.

A review of one of the links in question
I took a more detailed look at the link added for Avalon and what I see in reading the page in its entirety is a rather blatant attempt at an infomercial, with advertising content all around and inside the text in question. I've pulled out a few paragraphs and have highlighted some of the more explicit advertising:


 * Years later, after numerous transactions, the island was sold to a team of developers who started the Seven Mile Beach Company and began making room for an expansive Avalon NJ Real Estate market. This final purchase was the start of the resort town of Avalon, New Jersey and has since provided me the opportunity to serve as your Avalon NJ Realtor. By cutting down the juniper forests and grading the rolling sand dunes, all of which were done by hand, Avalon slowly evolved into a thriving resort with many gorgeous Avalon New Jersey rentals and homes for sale. From its beginning stages to this day, the Avalon NJ Real Estate market continues to thrive.


 * Hotel Avalon was a stop for the train from Philadelphia, and also served as a meeting place for the borough council. Over the years, the hotel changed ownership numerous times and underwent extensive renovations. Avalon NJ Realtors were always in competition to get involved with the beautiful hotel. But the biggest attraction in its later years, by far, was the famous Bongo room.


 * The Bongo room was one of the biggest dance clubs in all of Cape May county and attracted people from all around the world. Every Sunday during the summers of 1976 to 1985 the "fabulous Greaseband" would entertain its happy visitors all night long. Then, in 1987, the nearly century-old Avalon Hotel was demolished to make way for the new Avalon Hotel that was later converted into condominiums. Although we do miss the old Avalon Hotel, the new condominiums provide excellent opportunities for Avalon NJ rentals.


 * Over the years many hotels, houses, and roads have come and gone in Avalon. The one thing that remains the same is the endless flow of people that continue to flock to the town to enjoy their vacations in an Avalon NJ rental. Avalon New Jersey Realty was created from a resort community and has flourished from the beginning as such. To learn more about the history of Avalon I recommend reading "Faces and Places from Avalons Past" written by David Coskey. Most of the information I wrote about Avalon, or "the seven mile beach," I read in his very informative book. It has helped me become the successful and knowledgeable Avalon NJ Realtor and Stone Harbor NJ Realtor that I have become today!

I'm sorry i had taken a merely cursory look at the links, but now that I read them in detail trying to see your argument that the pages are non-advertising information, it is abundantly clear that these links are entirely inappropriate advertising and will be removed. Please do not attempt to reinsert these links no matter how long they have been there, and I accept full blame for not realizing that these spam links were present for so long. Alansohn (talk) 21:46, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

NO SHIT

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you.--Xanzzibar (talk) 02:20, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. I'm not sure which will be addressed first, but one or the other of these should address the issues here. Alansohn (talk) 03:55, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Good lets discuss it. you hide behind computers all day long thinkikng your tough messing with peoples livelyhoods. If you take food of my childs table i can assure you ill do the same

Why hasnt Ocean City's been edited?? Look at all those spamm links!!!!

Final warning
Count yourself lucky you got away with it for five years, and take that for what it's worth. If you insert the spam link again, you will be blocked from editing. If you log out and try to do it as your IP again [, or otherwise try to sneak around and do it, in addition to the standard sanctions for sock puppeting, it will go on the spam blacklist, at which point adding a link to the site will be impossible for any page on the project. Search engines may also penalize links which wind up on spam blacklists, though we have no control over this. Seraphimblade Talk to me 06:21, 27 June 2012 (UTC


 * You leave all the other links alone but Fuck with mine!!!!!! Why??? give me one good reason that a hard working american looking to put food on the table should be singled out why other shit links that either dont work or are of no relevance to Avalon get to stay.  I can assure you that I WILL NOT LET YOU GET AWAY WITH IT.  I wrote a relevant page about the community of AVALON the town I work and live in.  Be a man and call me and tell me in person why my link gets banned after 5 years and all the others stay live??  What the hell does a hotel have to do with Avalon???  Visitnjshore is a link about AVALON!!!??????  YOu know I did nothing wrong except try to make a living and you also know that IP addresses differ all over i can get in from anywhere.  You want me to stop????  Be a man and call me and debate why other links are more relevant than mine and you did NOTHING TO THEM.  you cant police just me.  SO dont hide behind your computer call me  609-425-7442

Blocked
You have been blocked from editing Wikipedia for continuing to add spam links. If you wish to make useful contributions, you may place unblock on your user talk page to have the block reviewed. Persistent spammers will have their websites blacklisted from Wikipedia.

--Dirk Beetstra T C 13:07, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

unblock

 * That that link was there for 5 years is not a guarantee that it belonged on the page. However, there seems to be no consensus that those links you were adding did belong on the page.  Edit warring to keep your links on that page is certainly not the way forward, discussion either way would have been.  Looking on this page shows me that there is enough suggestion for you to choose otherwise, to choose discussion.
 * It is maybe true for other links on those pages as well .. but that is a different question, a question you also chose not to discuss.
 * I will leave the unblock request to someone else for independent review - but I suggest that you try and show that you understand the way forward, in stead of pointing at others who removed your links. --Dirk Beetstra T  C 13:14, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Beetstra please read this. i have said lets discuss it countless times!! No one would I left my phone number on the internet, thats how much I wanted to resolve this if that is not enough for a disscussion then what else could you possiible want me to do. An email address is on the site as well anyone could have reached out! I clearly stated my arguement over and over and over and it is more then valid. The page was an Avalon Community Guide just like it stated. Just because it was on a Realtor's website doesnt make it spamm. You are entitled to an opinion and so am I. Doesnt make either of us right. If my links not allowed then all the others are bad too. That was my only arguement. And NO ONE until now addressed it. Sorry your wrong I tried to disscuss and got no where.

You have used Wikipedia to promote your own web site, which is contrary to Wikipedia policy. You have edit warred, which is contrary to policy. Instead of addressing the issues, you have attacked other editors, and made claims of a "vendetta" against you. The fact that your spam link remained in place for a long while before it was noticed and removed does not justify it, as has been explained to you repeatedly. If there are other unsuitable links then you could have done something constructive, such as removing them, or if for some reason you didn't want to do that you could have at least specified what they were so that others could check them, instead of claiming that the fact that they are there somehow proves that there's a wicked conspiracy against you. (I have searched the article for "visitthenj", and the word does not appear anywhere there. This casts doubt on the accuracy of your statement that your claim that the article contains links to visitthenj.) Has it not occurred to you that no Wikipedia editor can know of every bad link in the 3000000+ articles on English Wikipedia, and that someone may not have deleted a link because they can't do everything, rather than because they are part of some wicked conspiracy against you? Since the unblock request merely repeated things that you have repeatedly said, and that have already been answered, it is likely that, if you do the same again, your talk page access may be removed, to prevent your more of wasting everybody's time. JamesBWatson (talk) 13:27, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
 * @JAmesBWatson - I have cleaned the articles from many links that were contrary to WP:NOT and WP:EL, and that is why you could not find the links. At least at that part, Buttress was right, also many of the other links did not belong there.  --Dirk Beetstra T  C 13:31, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for explaining. I should, of course, have checked old versions of the article, not just the current one. I have removed another link. JamesBWatson (talk) 14:26, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I addressed the issue countelss times, My only argument has been the whole time they took down my link and left the others alone. Regardless of the "spamm" it was unfair to single me out and it made me furious!!! I know I was right so Xannabar or whatever you name is you can... There was a link for VISITNJ.com right next to mine. How could anyone miss it while editing mine? As far as banning me from Wiki I have a lot better things to do with mylife then sit behind a computer and rewrite wiki articles. Look at how many posts ive made two. I as you called edit warred or whatever to prove a point. No one would disscuss it with me they just removed it and nothing else. I deserved the right to defend my self and tried to numerous times to no avail. I wrote to the people removing my link and no one said anyting I did my part

Regardless of what you all may think I know I was right and I got my point accross. It worked. Now go outside and enjoy this beautiful planet we live on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by buttress (talk • contribs)


 * And you could have done that, without ending up being blocked for spamming in the end. --Dirk Beetstra T  C 05:33, 28 June 2012 (UTC)