User talk:Buyhighselllowester

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-- 03:25, Tuesday, June 27, 2017 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Hemanta Sharma (June 28)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Jcc was:

The comment the reviewer left was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


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jcc (tea and biscuits) 22:18, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Welcome!
Welcome to Wikipedia, Buyhighselllowester! Thank you for your contributions. I am Jcc and I have been editing Wikipedia for some time, so if you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message on my talk page. You can also check out Questions or type at the bottom of this page. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: Also, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name using four tildes ( ~ ); that will automatically produce your username and the date. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! jcc (tea and biscuits) 22:18, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
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Speedy deletion nomination of Hirak Hemant Bhattara


A tag has been placed on Hirak Hemant Bhattara requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a real person or group of people, but it does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the. Jennica ✿ / talk 02:19, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Hi Jennica. Thank you for your feedback and advice. I am not new to viewing and editing in Wikipedia, but I am new to creating pages. The new user guide was very helpful, but either I misunderstood some of the advice, or the guide should be updated. For example, the guide indicated that the appropriate way for a beginner to create a page is to Additionally, the guide indicated that even a "stub" was fine as long as there is enough independent information to indicate that the page contents are verified and unbiased, with the caveat that it is often necessary to get a page up, with the limited sources available, in order others to contribute, edit, add, verify, etc. Taking all of that into account, I created an article for a very popular musician in Nepal, Hemant Sharma, which was promptly rejected. There are very few English language articles on the people of Nepal in general, despite the fact that it borders by far the largest country with English as an official language (India). Also, I thought he was a natural choice due to his prominence as a musician, for which I used at least 3 or 4 completely independent sources, and the president of a Nepalese government agency for performers. Due to his fame as a musician and current role, my assumption was that others would collaborate on the page and improve anything I left out or wouldn't have access to due to geographic location (papers, magazines, online content, etc.).
 * Create a new page in draft space
 * Find enough independent sources to verify the information
 * Write without bias
 * Request a move to main space

My second page was of another entertainer from Nepal (I am a fan of the music scene), Hirak Hemant Bhattarai. This time, I created the page the other way the Wikipedia guide recommended: by creating it directly in the main space. I thought that this would give others time to edit, improve, etc., the page so that the same thing didn't happen again. And the page seems to be growing organically, with more independent sources, better information, etc. populating by the hour.

So in both cases, I followed the guidelines in the literal sense, and both times I have had a page either rejected or proposed for deletion. I have seen stubs that are much shorter with one reference that are verified and remain in the main space, well, forever as far as I can tell (for example, Andre Agassi's father, two cricket players named Oliver Robinson, and my favorite "Mike Pace and the child actors," which has no citations, sources, etc. and is two sentences long. I am simply curious as to why these individuals (one a musician with no sources at all) are not recommended for deletion, but the head of a government agency, who also happens to be a famous musician is turned down, and a page about another musician that has seen heavy improvements and several independent sources added in just a couple of days is recommended for deletion as it matures.

Again, thank you for your welcome and your feedback. I am interested in consistently increasing the amount of information available to people online, and focusing on an eccentric interest seems to be a better way to add new information rather than simply augment available information. If you have any suggestions, I am open to them, and I will try to improve future articles. As for the two I already attempted, I believe they are written without bias, formatted in the general order expected on the website, and supported with enough independent sources to merit publication. So, with that said, I'll repeat that despite its proximity to the largest English speaking country in the world and unique entertainment culture, there are very few pages dedicated to that culture and open to those people. Cheers Buyhighselllowester (talk) 17:41, 1 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Replying to this block of text:


 * 1) fine as long as there is enough independent information to indicate that the page contents are verified and unbiased, with the caveat that it is often necessary to get a page up, with the limited sources available Simply not true, all articles have to satisfy our notability policies.
 * 2) I created the page the other way the Wikipedia guide recommended The AfC reviewers, and four people at the previous Articles for Deletion discussion said it was not notable. You ignored them and posted the article anyway. It is still fundamentally none-notable though- all you have done is ensured it was nominated for deletion in mainspace rather than rejected at AfC. Both have the same outcome = no article.
 * 3) have seen stubs that are much shorter with one reference that are verified and remain in the main space, well, forever as far as I can tell Yes, that is because they are fundamentally notable.
 * 4) two cricket players named Oliver Robinson They meet NSPORT- the guideline for inclusion!
 * 5) Mike Pace and the Child Actors...forever as far as I can tell The article has been up for less than a day. That is not the same thing as forever. It will get nominated for deletion soon if it is not notable, just like your article.
 * 6) the page seems to be growing organically The page is not. All these new editors suddenly coming to this article...hmm, a bit odd.

If you seriously believe what you just wrote, then I'm sorry, but you need to read those guidelines again- even the "nutshell" versions will do. jcc (tea and biscuits) 19:15, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate your candor. I wish I had your knowledge of the site beforehand. May I ask some questions concerning the response? Buyhighselllowester (talk) 04:07, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Your first point failed to address my statement. I am sorry if I was unclear. I did not mean to imply that the criteria change page to page (although the concept of "fundamental notability" undermines that claim so maybe their are separate sets of rules. I stated what I thought was a suggestion for new users to get all of the information possible and in a wiki format, submit it, then continue improving and collaborating with other interested users so that any page can be as well cited and error free as possible. If you could give me a ballpark figure for number of sources, I'll take note, go through the training again, and see where I went wrong.
 * I did not ignore the above mentioned comments on a previously deleted page, and I do not appreciate the accusation; I was simply ignorant of the page's existence. Probably an error not uncommon for a new user. Also, I legitimately thought, and still do, that this page is encyclopedia worthy, but with most info is in Asia, making it difficult to find the best sources without outside help. I have no skin in the game; I just like the music and the opportunity to create. But apparently your instincts take you straight to misconduct..hmmm not a warm welcome, but better than journal reviewers!
 * What makes a stub fundamentally notable? For example, the other page I requested to move from draft was for another singer from Nepal, Hemanta Sharma. It was not approved despite the fact that he is the president of a government office dedicated to entertainment in Nepal. That seems to validate him as notable in the Nepalese entertainment culture. Who is fundamentally notable? I pointed out Andre Agassi's father, who has almost no independent notability. Wouldn't a government official with several albums and interviews released for nearly 20 years be fundamentally notable, especially if Agassi's dad is (crappy amateur boxer and tennis star father vs. president of a government office and a huge following by Nepal standards)?
 * Your next two points are clear in response to my bullets. I must again plead ignorance of NSPORT or the date of that goofy page. That was just a bad argument on my part. Although, it would be great to find lists that makes something or someone automatically notable.
 * How do you differentiate organic growth from growth created under false pretense? I have hardly thought about these pages since writing them, and I have only one account. Am I naive, or wouldn't organic feedback mimic false growth if the page is notable, and thus subject to frequent change? Moreover, It seems likely that a few writers with especially close knowledge would group and maybe ask friends to join the community. I know over here in Ohio, I know of the subject only through 3rd party music sources and am unaware of any collusion. There isn't a big market for music from Nepal here.


 * Sorry if I was being a bit blunt. All pages fundamentally have to be notable enough for inclusion on Wikipedia. There are different criteria that determines 'notability' for different types of subject- for sportspeople the relevant criteria is WP:NSPORT, for musicians that's WP:NMUSICIAN and there's even one to determine if an airport is notable- WP:NAIRPORT. So yes, you are right in that there are different set of rules depending on what you are writing about. Hopefully this makes the answer to your question as to what makes a singer fundamentally notable- there are twelve criteria laid out at WP:NMUSICIAN and if you can demonstrate that your subject meets at least one of them, then they are fundamentally notable. I note that you have written that he is also a politician- and the criteria for politicians are laid out at Articles_for_deletion/Common_outcomes and WP:NPOLITICIAN. Therefore, if the subject meets any of the criteria laid out at NMUSICIAN or NPOLITICAN then clearly state so and I'll accept the article.
 * Regarding sources, what is needed is 'significant' coverage but importantly from independent news sources (i.e. not press releases). There is no fixed number of sources that is acceptable, but under the biographies of living people rule, at least one is required. I know this must seem vague but reviewers both in mainspace and AfC look at each source on an individual basis.
 * Unfortunately in regard to your point about false growth and collusion, it has been demonstrated beyond doubt that several of the accounts that have edited Hirak Hemant Bhattara are operated by the same person by an uninvolved administrator. You can see the investigation here.
 * If you link to the article about Agassi's father then I can take a look. Best wishes, jcc (tea and biscuits) 10:34, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Nomination of Hirak Hemant Bhattara for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Hirak Hemant Bhattara is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Hirak Hemant Bhattara until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. jcc (tea and biscuits) 19:05, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Hirak Hemant Bhattara


A tag has been placed on Hirak Hemant Bhattara, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G4 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion discussion,. When a page has substantially identical content to that of a page deleted after a discusion, and any changes in the content do not address the reasons for which the material was previously deleted, it may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Exemplo347 (talk) 20:18, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Draft:Hemanta Sharma concern
Hi there, I'm HasteurBot. I just wanted to let you know that Draft:Hemanta Sharma, a page you created, has not been edited in 5 months. The Articles for Creation space is not an indefinite storage location for content that is not appropriate for articlespace.

If your submission is not edited soon, it could be nominated for deletion. If you would like to attempt to save it, you will need to improve it.

You may request Userfication of the content if it meets requirements.

If the deletion has already occured, instructions on how you may be able to retrieve it are available at WP:REFUND/G13.

Thank you for your attention. HasteurBot (talk) 01:37, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Hemanta Sharma


Hello, Buyhighselllowester. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Hemanta Sharma".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the, , or  code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. JustaZBguy (talk) 00:54, 19 January 2018 (UTC)