User talk:Bvs1925

June 2009
Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, your addition of one or more external links to the page List of Coptic Orthodox Churches in the United States has been reverted. Your edit here was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to remove unwanted links and spam from Wikipedia. The external link you added or changed is on my list of links to remove and probably shouldn't be included in Wikipedia. The external links I reverted were matching the following regex rule(s): \bangelfire\.com\b (links: http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/fresnocopts/index.html/). If you were trying to insert an external link that does comply with our policies and guidelines, then please accept my creator's apologies and feel free to undo the bot's revert. However, if the link does not comply with our policies and guidelines, but your edit included other changes to the article, feel free to make those changes again without re-adding the link. Please read Wikipedia's external links guideline for more information, and consult my list of frequently-reverted sites. For more information about me, see my FAQ page. Thanks! --XLinkBot (talk) 04:49, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You shouldn't revert warranted edits/updates, such as my one edit, in order to revert to old links. This is exactly the kind of spamming that we don't want here on Wikipedia. ~ Troy (talk) 05:13, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Dear Sir, Someone is persistent on vandalizing and changing our church website link "Archangels Michael & Coptic Orthodox Church is Fresno, CA from Church link which is www.angelfire.com/ca3/fresnocopts/index.html to some unknown website. This has been going on for a couple of days for some unexplainable reasons. Our Church website  link has been replaced by an unknown website link  www.fresnocopticchurch.org. which we know nothing about.

In addition to that it seems that Our IP address (67.181.163.205) has been blocked so we can not restore the correct link again back to it place. Please check to see who has been changing the link our our Church website in the past few days to another unkown website and take proper actions to stop him / them. Also please unblock our IP address and allow the Church to restore the correct link again.

Thank you & God Bless You, Archangels Michael & Gabriel Coptic Orthodox Church Fresno, CA


 * Your Angelfire website is very broken, and is for Visalia, about 40 miles south of Fresno. The Fresno website is for N. Palm Avenue, Fresno.  Are these two separate churches and is another entry for your Visalia church needed? --Stephen 05:39, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Dear Sir,

We will do our best to update our original church website and check why is it seems to be broken. Due to internal investigation by the Mother Church in Egypt with the Current priest, the Fresno Congregation is temporarily praying in another location in Visalia. This had to be announced on the website by stating: Praying Now at ....... . Once the Investigation is completed we will update the website to reflect the permanent address in Fresno. Some rebellions in support of the investigated priest decided to launch their own website www.Fresnocopticchurch.org and are going around attempting to replace the original website www.angelfire.com/ca3/fresnocopts/index.html with their new promoting website. And for some unexplainable reasons Wikipedia accepted to replace the original website with their promoting website.

Although we are not asking Wikipedia to interfere in any internal church investigation, we are asking Wikipedia to restore the link to the original website again as it was 10 days ago until the church is through with its investigation.

keeping the promoting website link of www.fresnocopticchurch.org as the new link for Archangels Michael & Gabriel Coptic Orthodox Church is addition to being misleading, and promoting, we believe it to be a violation of the rules and regulations of Wikipedia and it may look as if Wikipedia is interfering in a church internal dispute and taking the rebellions side.

Respectively,

Archangels Michael & Gabriel Coptic Orthodox Church
 * Firstly, I was the one who updated the link, without any earlier knowledge of this particular issue. However, Wikipedia is not a battleground or promotion engine where one can claim to be right and say that the other (external) party is wrong (see WP:TRUTH). I have based my decision to update the link based on how updated the web site is. Angelfire is rarely updated, and in this case, it isn't. So, it appears that both web sites claim to be the same church called "Archangels Michael & Gabriel" (especially since the second is--apparently--in Fresno and not Visalia). Ergo, it is irrelevant to claim that it is about what is correct or not—as, in this case, by holding a personal opinion of one side or the other, it is no longer about truth, but opinion or bias (which is WP:NPOV). Feel free to explain yourself, but absolutely under no circumstances should you claim that it is right to ignore warnings and continue inserting an old link which had, at the time, absolutely no rationale. ~ Troy (talk) 19:12, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Just an fyi: for the record, I do not represent any organization here. I am not here to take sides or be presumed as a "supporter" of any involved parties. ~ Troy (talk) 19:31, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Sir,

the Church is not trying to argue with you. We simply need to keep our Church website "AS IS". The fact that somebody made a new website and it looks better to somepeople that does it NOT mean that this is the Church Website. We are still investigating who is behind this new website. Until then and until the matter is resolved the Church would like to ask you to either restore the original website link or to remove both links until the matter is clearned and settled. But adopting a new unknown webite simply because it is designed bettter and removing the link for the original website because it is out dated does not serve the best interest of anybody not it serves the interest of Wikipedia. Under all circumstances, we beleive that Wikipedia shoudl stay away from the Church internal dispute and the least Wikipedia can do is not to add any links to any website unitl the Church investigation is complete.

Thank you for your consideration.

Archangels Michael & Gabriel Coptic Orthodox Church
 * I have considered your opinion and decided to remove the link out right. Please avoid getting into such issues on-wiki so as to ensure the avoidance of any misinterpreted changes to articles, lists, or their specific content. Once your block expires, you may feel free to edit articles again. Good day. ~ Troy (talk) 23:37, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

November 2009
Please do not add inappropriate external links to Wikipedia, as you did to The Hanging Church. Wikipedia is not a collection of links, nor should it be used for advertising or promotion. Inappropriate links include (but are not limited to) links to personal web sites, links to web sites with which you are affiliated, and links that attract visitors to a web site or promote a product. See the external links guideline and spam guideline for further explanations. Because Wikipedia uses the nofollow attribute value, its external links are disregarded by most search engines. If you feel the link should be added to the article, please discuss it on the article's talk page rather than re-adding it. Thank you. Charles (talk) 09:27, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

All Links added are within the Coptic Church links and are in harmony with the subject mentioned. There is no promotion or advertising taking place. All infromation is accurate to the best of my ability.No personal links has been added. My review indicates that all are Coptic Orthodox Church related links. I am putting a lot of hours to make the information available to the readers as accurate - Updated as possible. In the few coming days I will be looking in-depth into the Vaccant Bishop positions that are listed. They are out-dated and missing a lot of information.

Will keep my eyes open to any adds on or deletes that take place in the info.

Thanks for taking the time to educate me.

Bvs

Your recent edits
Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. --SineBot (talk) 05:23, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Hello BVS 1925,

This message I sent to lanternix and I am forwarding a copy for your information. I hope you get the message behind the message and be aware that we are all aware of your attempts and we will take action.

P.S.: By "All", I mean all who have interest to keep Wekipedia pages free from inaccurate information or lies and a theater of personal wars within parsihes! I am in contact with many and they all agree on this cllective stance. Here is the copied message:

Hi Lanternix,

This is quite a ridiculous situation, both BVS 125 and IP Address 71.195.186.130, unless they are the same person, are engaged in a very weird and persistant vandalism in most of the pages related to the Cptic Orthodox Church by insisting of the addition of a fake or non existant bishop of an non existant diocese. I have warned them but to no avail. Here is the fact of the matter and they are aware of it, if that information was true, no one would have any mind or even thing to such an addition, everyone wants to have the number of bishops and dioceses of the Coptic orthodox Church grow every day, but to add such an information, the following need to be done: 1) To have any confirmation from theHoly Synod of the Coptic Orthodox Vhurch about such a diocese or bishop. This is non existant and they know that very well. 2) Whoever reads the contents of the so-called Fresno diocesan website, notes that there is a mojor feud among the members of the congregation of that parish (not diocese0 and the apparently imposed priest on them, to the point of having serious disagreement about several investigations done by several bishops about that feud. 3)The title of the website states that the so-called bishop is called Mina the Ischariot, which meens the treator among the ecclesiastical parlance, which in turn means that the website is created to mock the whole idea of the bishop and the diocese, by saying that the people of that parish are suffering from an imposed clergy, who is backed by some bishops as it claims, comparing him with Judas the Ischariot and have an episcopal imposition. Accordingly, this website does not proof the existance of a diocese or a bishop but mocks them. 4) It is clear that the image provided for that so-called bishop is composed or superimposed. by matching episcopal vestments on the face of that priest.

It becomes evident that the reason behind the insistance for adding such an addition in many Coptic Orthodox Church related pages on Wikipedia, is an attempt to propagate the apparent injustice imposed on that parish, by mocking the priest, by making him a bishop and the parish a diocese. So these two fellows are actually against that priest and they using Wikipedia pages as a tool of their WAR against that priest and whoever fllows him and protects him. I even suspect that they/he have created that webpage for the sake of such mokery.

So the WAR here is from these two gentlemen (or gentleman, if it's only one person) and all I, you and others are doing is stoping them/him from doing this persisting vandalism.

If they/he can provide a document or documents from the Holy Synod of the Coptic Orthodox Church about such addition, creation of a diocese, consecration of such bishop, date of consecration and by whom and where from a reliable source, then by all means this addition is welcomed. Of course you know and I know that this will never happen. I am copying this message on the User talk page of BVS 125 for his information.

I will never stop preventing the vandalism they/he are/is doing and I hope that you would do the same. If you have the means to ban them/him permanently, please do so, since obviously they have an agenda of their own. Thanks.Orthopraxia (talk) 00:25, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Nofri Lantermix,

Thanks for your response. Keep me posted. Merry Christmas to you too.Orthopraxia (talk) 03:09, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

December 2009
-- Ⲗⲁⲛⲧⲉⲣⲛⲓⲝ [talk]  02:35, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Show me one credible Coptic website that says that Fresno is a diocese and who is the bishop of that diocese.
 * 2) Is that website (coptpope.org) yours?

We are a very friendly people, and we are not looking for trouble or fights and we have all the respect in the world for Orthopraxia and his friends. Wikipedia is NOT the place to fight a WAR regarding church internal disputes.

Please let us know are you Coptic Orthodox? Can you read Arabic ? We will provide you with offical coptic websties that refer to our diocese. Waiting for your reply.

God Bless

Bvs --Bvs1925 (talk) 02:41, 25 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I can read all the languages of the world. Just provide me with the answers to the 2 questions above. -- Ⲗⲁⲛⲧⲉⲣⲛⲓⲝ [talk]  03:01, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Answers:
 * 1) Show me one credible Coptic website that says that Fresno is a diocese and who is the bishop of that diocese.

Yes, we can provide that, upon additional clarifications:

'''1) Are a Coptic Orthodox?

2) Although we appreciate you general answer about all the languages in the world, we need a specific answer regarding your ability to read "Arabic" or are you helpled by someone like "Orthoprexia" to get interrpretation of his own?

3) Don't you think that your friendship and close relation with Orthopreixa will affect your fair judgment on this matter?

4) Dont` you think that the person trying to delete our information is the one who needs to answer questions not the Fresno Coptic families? Does it make sense?'''


 * 1) Is that website (coptpope.org) yours?

I as an individual do not own anything. Everything is owned by the Coptic Orthodox Families of Fresno and funded through their contributions. We are all servents of the church.

Waiting for your clarifications (above), that will help us provide you will all required infromation although the person who is claiming otherwise (Orthoprexia) is the one who should be doing so, not us.

Thanks & God Bless

bvs


 * You have no business in knowing who I am and what my religion/denomination is. YOU asked for my help, and I am responding to your request for help. If you don;t like it, you can always withdraw your request, knowing that I am yet to be convinced about your behavior and actions, and that I will be taking all necessary actions to prevent this nonsense. Cheers. -- Ⲗⲁⲛⲧⲉⲣⲛⲓⲝ [talk]  03:55, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

BVS 1925 It is quite obvious that you guys have paranoia, you starts to make assumtions and deductions with a hint of a conspiracy theory. I don't need to defend myself, but for your knowledge:
 * I don't know anything about this misrable parish and its more misrable congregation and I live in San Fernando Valley, Los Angeles.
 * I have never been in Fresno in my life and no no one who is a member of this parish.
 * For the last 8 years, I don't deal any bishop of the Coptic Orthodox Church on a personal level or even is a friend of mine.
 * I myself had problems with the ministry and services within the Coptic Orthodox Church and I am not involved in any activities in it.
 * I am not a member of the Coptic Orthodox Church anymore since 2001 and almost never deal with members of the local Coptic Orthodox Church where I used to worship.
 * I am an active member in the Antiochian Orthodox Church and hold the rank of Subdeacon in my Antiochian Orthodox parish, with is under the omophorion (jurisdiction) of His Grace Bishop Joseph Zahlawe, Bishop of the Diocese of Los Angeles and the West. This does not mean that I am not proud of my Coptic Orthodox heritage and am not intersted in its history, dogma and ecclesiastical matters.
 * I have learned from previous experience from dealing and interacting with Coptic Orthodox Clergy (Hierarchs and Priests) that made me never want to deal with any of them anymore.

BVS 1925, is not at all proper or ethical in my opinion, it shows that you change your mind a lot and will not hesitate with tampering with an exsisting submitted message! I am astonished at this act. Orthopraxia (talk) 02:16, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

I felt the message was not appreciated since you never responded back so it was removed for your convenience. Bvs --Bvs1925 (talk) 03:45, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

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