User talk:Cailil/Archive 4

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Blackworm and that there stuff on WP:AN
I'm not really sure what is to be done, really. I brought my concerns to AN (and not AN/I) because this wasn't an acute incident/problem but rather a pattern I was seeing. I didn't bring it directly to Blackworm because it appeared a number of other editors already had brought these issues up with him on his talk page with little result. I certainly think mediation between Blackworm and Phyesalis is a good idea. An RfC is a bit iffy and I wouldn't quite rule it out entirely but I'm not sure it would help much.

I see a couple of problems with BW's attitude and approach toward the very limited number of articles he mainly works on. One, his interpretation that NPOV means as much weight in an article must be given to minority views as to significantly more majority views on the subject of the article. He seems to think this is true even in the absence of WP:V or WP:RS for those minority positions or without consensus on the talk pages. This is what I meant by having a POV. He insists some views be included. Personally, I think he has a point that some of these views should be included but for him to insist on their inclusion without being able to provide sourcing is the essence of POV-pushing. Perhaps I missed it (and I haven't made a detailed study of his contribs) but I don't think he's provided adequate sourcing for his views except possibly for the men's reproductive rights section of the RR article (and I didn't notice if he provided those sources in particular.)

Two, BW seems to spread wiki-stress in his interactions on WP. He seems determined to win arguments by outlasting everyone and/or driving opponents away. Wikipedia editing and communication shouldn't be a "trial by combat" experience. Arguments on talk pages, sometimes quite forceful and verbose arguments, are often necessary to reach common agreements on article content but WP tries to foster a collegial atmosphere of respect for opposition views. Another sign of POV is the singleminded push toward inclusion of particular viewpoints in the face of reasonable compromises by a range of other editors.

Three, BW seems determined to assume bad faith of almost everyone who opposes his views. He uses a variety of methods, from wiki-lawyering to bullying to accusations of conspiracy against him, but they all seem designed to overwhelm and discredit other views rather than collaborate with other editors toward a common goal.

Blackworm's behaviour is very reminiscent of another case on WP I have great familiarity with. BW has been editing fairly regularly since April 2007 and moderately heavily since Sept. 2007; he can't be called a "new" editor anymore. Can or will he change his behaviour? I certainly hope so. However, when a person behaves a certain way on WP over a long period of time despite negative feedback from a variety of people, I don't think it violates AFG to expect that same behaviour will probably continue into the future. It might not. I'm not prescient when it comes to people's ability to change.

So far, I don't see that he's committed any specific violations of policy. Breaches of Wikipedia etiquette and courtesy, yes. A belligerent and combative attitude, yes. Generally, these are not blockable offences although in extreme cases they can become so. However, he could very well go over the line of acceptable behaviour if he doesn't take my posting to WP:AN as a warning to improve the civility of his interactions with other editors.

I value contrary and minority views. If at all possible, I very much prefer to see them honestly represented in WP articles as counterpoint to more conventional and majority viewpoints. But I also have to say WP:V is a bedrock principle of WP. Without WP:RS to back up the info, such things are really just WP:OR and opinion.

Sorry, a lot of this really should be said to Blackworm himself rather than here but your post apparently inspired me to articulate these thoughts. I hope you'll excuse the rant. Cheers, Pigman ☿ 23:33, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


 * You know, I think we are in agreement on this matter. I hope the 3 editors at Talk:Reproductive rights can resolve their problems via mediation and that this matter ends there. With that there is a chance of a positive resolution for everyone involved-- Cailil   talk 00:12, 7 January 2008 (UTC)


 * We probably are in agreement. I actually think my views here on the subject and situation are incredibly conventional relative to WP policy and guidelines, even if a little too verbose. I also pointed User:Blackworm to my post above as I think it lays out the issues and concerns well. I also hope the three editors will enter mediation. It doesn't always work but I think it would be helpful to all concerned. I'm going to try to keep an eye on what these editors are doing and offer advice as needed but, like most editors and admins, I also have other things to tend to on Wikipedia. BTW, thanks for helping by adding your detailed statement on the WP:AN thread I started on the situation. It provided much needed context and background for understanding the situation. If you need anything, don't hesitate to leave a note on my talk page. I note we have several areas of common interest. Cheers, Pigman ☿ 18:09, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Knowledge is Trust
As Knowledge is Power, with all Power comes Trust. Igor Berger (talk) 02:22, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Mediation
Thank you. Please forgive my faux pas on Blackworm's page. I have stricken my comment and apologized at User talk:Blackworm. I am still very interested in mediation. Sorry for any confusion. Phyesalis (talk) 20:34, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Feminism comments
I have finally finished copy editing and commenting on feminism. I hope that my suggestions are helpful. What wonderful work you are doing over there! And in such a noble cause, too. Awadewit | talk  12:24, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Favor
I was wondering if you would be interested in reviewing Boydell Shakespeare Gallery (it is kind of about drama and literature). Rupert Clayton and I have put it up for peer review. I would really appreciate it! Thanks. Awadewit | talk  00:14, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure thing - it'll be Monday or Tuesday before I can really sink my teeth into it though-- Cailil  talk 00:53, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * That's not a problem - we're in no rush. Thanks so much! Awadewit | talk  00:56, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Portals
Hello Cailil! I was reading your response to portals on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Gender_Studies and you said that all 3 portals: women, feminism, and gender studies all sound like a good idea. User:Phyesalis and I have been discussing it on User_talk:Grrrlriot. She's wanting to do the gender studies portal. I think that User:BrownHairedGirl might do the women portal. I told her I could do the feminism portal. I was wondering if you would like to help me with that? Read more about it and give me some ideas for the portal on my talk page. Also, If you want to talk more about this, You can send me an email. (See my userpage for my email.) Do you know of anyone else that might be interested in helping with the feminism portal? I was thinking we could share our ideas for the feminism portal. --Grrrlriot (talk) 17:38, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd love to help out whenever I can, but at the moment I'm extremely busy in RL and have very little time to spend on WP. I'll drop you line with some ideas as soon as I can-- Cailil   talk 18:43, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * That's ok. I totally understand. Can't wait to hear your ideas! :) --Grrrlriot (talk) 19:52, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Just letting you know that WikiProject Gender Studies/Feminism Task Force has been created. --Grrrlriot (talk) 23:16, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Spelling
I'm sorry about that, it was a long day and I completely zoned it out that it was the British spelling, just looked at the jagged red lines under it whan I was in there to fix the word "activist". No offence was meant and I'll be more careful.

P.S. Thanks for going back and correcting it.

Eric —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eric Patterson (talk • contribs) 16:30, 19 February 2008 (UTC)


 * No problem at all, it's an easy mistake to make-- Cailil  talk 16:43, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Benazir Bhutto and Islamic feminism
I noted your message to Sir Fozzie when I was popping onto his page for other reasons, and thought you had a point, so I went to the requisite article. I note, however, that you have not explained your position on the talk page of the article; in fact, there is no discussion about Bhutto on the page at all, as far as I could see. Perhaps you would be more successful in persuading others to your point of view if you wrote something there. It's a little unfair to ask Sir Fozzie to deal with the issue if you haven't clearly stated your reasoning. Likewise, I am not willing to start that discussion without evidence that you are willing to participate in it. Please consider posting your reasoning for excluding Bhutto on the talk page of the article. Best, Risker (talk) 03:04, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Aha, I see you have been discussing this on the Feminism page, but not the Islamic feminism page or the Benazir Bhutto page, both of which discuss some of her feminist leanings. My apologies for having missed that.  Risker (talk) 03:32, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem Risker its a storm in tea cup really but I'd like some one to review it-- Cailil  talk 12:09, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Fozzie
Can't leave anything on his talk page - it's protected! Sarah777 (talk) 01:36, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Broken link
I think I should point out that the link you gave to the reprint from the Weekly Standard in the request for comment appears to be broken. Skoojal (talk) 04:17, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pointing that out - hope you understand why I disagree with you in regard to the issues at Judith Butler and Michel Foucault-- Cailil  talk 15:28, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Cheers
I thank you for the barnstar (even though I haven't done so much on the task force yet). Insofar as you're a citizen of Ireland and a feminist, I thought you might be interested in this recent piece about Deirdre McAliskey from Democracy Now. Cheers! – Scartol  •  Tok  16:40, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Just a heads up
An IP (possibly your old friend?) is on the warpath on the GW article again. I see they haven't notified you, so I'll do so for them ;) Talk:Games_Workshop. SirFozzie (talk) 16:46, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the message. I wonder should I bother making an RFCU report.  Byahaa seems an obvious sock and the IPs are all from Devon.  What do you tink?-- Cailil   talk 18:15, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Not sure, really, I'm rather distracted, there's a big ol war that's sprung up on AN.. but I think a CheckUser couldn't hurt, although if RichSatan hasn't edited in several months, it may not be able to tie them to him. SirFozzie (talk) 18:32, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not all that long since he blanked his own talk page so it might be worth a trying RFCU. Thanks for the heads up anyway-- Cailil   talk 18:34, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Just a suggestion, you state a problem on the ANI thread... it also helps to state a possible solution, something like "Could I get some extra eyes on the talk page to watch out for future socks and take action if needed?" or to ask to get the sockmaster account blocked, or what have you.


 * Oh, apropos of some other things, have you ever thought about becoming a Wikipedia administrator? the way that you've handled this issue is great :) SirFozzie (talk) 18:29, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that suggestion - it's really quite falttering - I once did consider it but at the moment my RL workload is far far too high (I'm teaching on 3 different courses and trying to write my thesis and other conference papers at the same time) so I don't feel I could give the office of sysop enough time, at least for the next 3-4 months. Perhaps one day though. Thanks for pointing out solution ideas - will look at that now.  And thanks for keeping an eye on this in general-- Cailil   talk 20:06, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * When you're ready, let Durova or I know (I think we'll share the honor of the nomination between us.. ;) ) and we'll go from there. SirFozzie (talk) 20:19, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Blackworm again
See Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 05:57, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Edit to User Talk:Slrubenstein
It seems like you completely ignored what I was replying to. Can you now address the statement I was replying to? --Jagz (talk) 09:47, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Since as you say, warning someone is considered a threat, is it better to just go ahead and take action instead, such as reporting someone at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents? Don't warn them, just go ahead and do it? --Jagz (talk) 12:24, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

127.0.0.1
In case you didn't know, that's the IPv4 loopback adress. In case you did know, don't do that. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 21:49, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that confusion Martijn - I screwed up my edit summary. Teh IP check I added was for 212.209.42.132 - I copied the wrong IP addressed into the summary-- Cailil   talk 00:03, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Please ...
... comment here Slrubenstein  |  Talk 17:19, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Edit warrior IPs
Sorry for a slow reply to your msg, but see my response at User talk:BrownHairedGirl. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:03, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

heads up: you should look at RSN
On Reliable_sources/Noticeboard they talk about the sources on Feminism, including a UN report, and about the neutrality of your edits on Sexual objectification --Enric Naval (talk) 13:07, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, I just saw that you already knew --Enric Naval (talk) 13:09, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Just bussiness as usual. Thanks to you for improving articles and taking care of them. --Enric Naval (talk) 14:46, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Cailil!
Outstanding and thanks. Sorry it's taken so long to note your source-sharing! Got a deadline atm so can't rush off to find these. Best wishes to you in your current business, whatever it may be. Carpe diem friend. Alastair Haines (talk) 01:32, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem Alastair and if I do find anything else of interest I'll post it. Good luck with your deadline-- Cailil   talk 10:43, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Administrator?
Are you a Wikipedia administrator? --Jagz (talk) 21:33, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Your user page says that you are not an administrator. Question: Is English a second language to you? --Jagz (talk) 16:54, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Jagz
Just to let you know User:Jagz is still at it even after your final warning:. Thought I might as well point it out to you.--Ramdrake (talk) 14:13, 29 April 2008 (UTC)