User talk:CampbellF

Welcome!
Hello, CampbellF, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one of your contributions does not conform to Wikipedia's Neutral Point of View policy (NPOV). Wikipedia articles should refer only to facts and interpretations that have been stated in print or on reputable websites or other forms of media.

There's a page about the NPOV policy that has tips on how to effectively write about disparate points of view without compromising the NPOV status of the article as a whole. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the New contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, to ask for help on your talk page, and a volunteer should respond shortly. Below are a few other good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Questions or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Blue Square Thing (talk) 19:38, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
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Why has my edit been rolled back?
I'm extremely puzzled by the response offered. I was under the impression that Wikipedia existed to help preserve information for future generations amongst other things. I can understand the point about the B&Bs and Tearoom and would have no real objections if it was removed. But I'm staggered that someone with No knowledge of the area whatsoever could query what is relevant ie the genesis of the word Croppie. How could you possibly have a clue if this matters?? FYI the last one to be born and raised in Laid pre WW2 died recently and took much information with him. Does the arrival of Electricity really need citation? Or when the school closed? And what is wrong with the comment about the people having a hard but happy life? And above all else it seems instead of offering some pointers to a 1st time editor all my hard work was just wiped out. Couldnt the stuff that was ok be left in? If heard stories of Wiki editors being pedants but assumed it was on the more controversial topics not a remote crofting hamlet of 20 odd people. I had included links to websites in the references so not sure what more could be done there. I had also linked it to the Eriboll page and others so I'm not sure what you're talking about there either. I had hoped to link the page to a FB page I'm creating on Laid but now I'm not so sure.

Why has my edit been rolled back? I made several edits using the POV style for the Laid, Sutherland page and included the links used for some of the info in the references but the rest was my own knowledge of the area. One of the editors gave a vague reason about breaking some rules. No specification as to what it was that broke the rules. I am not interested in editing any other pages so have no desire to learn the intricacies of Wikipedia politics. I just want to update this one page and am annoyed it was reverted by someone who has never even heard of it.

On the next line is your signature; please keep it --CampbellFBlue Square Thing (talk) 05:11, 2 October 2017 (UTC)>CampbellFCampbellF (talk) 21:10, 1 October 2017 (UTC)


 * "POV" on Wikipedia is short for "point of view", particularly as in "not a neutral point of view". You didn't provide any references and in your edit summary said that much of the content you added was your own original research, something Wikipedia does not accept, and the editor who reverted it also found it rather opinionated. I have to agree with that assessment. Huon (talk) 21:30, 1 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Hey. Some of what you'd added I think we could include, but you need to be really, really careful about including opinions and in trying to use sources to demonstrate that what you are saying is true and to try to stick to the really important stuff about the place. For example:
 * the naming of peoples as Croppies and Machairich - is this really that important? And why refer to Durness which is a way away? And it's a copyright violation (i.e. a copy and paste job or near c&p from here which is never acceptable on Wikipedia.
 * primitive dwellings and lime kilns - seems to be based of original research, which is a shame. I would think that the historic Scotland people (Canmore???) would have something on this for Laid. I'm not sure I ever got to this article when I was editing places up this way, but if you look at the article on Achiemore, Durness, for example, you'll see how sources can be used to do that
 * school - similarly, we should be able to find refs for this
 * "stories of a hard but happy life style in this community" - this is clearly inappropriate for Wikipedia. I hope you can see that
 * Kelp - yes, we might be able to use this
 * mains electricity - interesting to include potentially - be even better if there were a reference but we might be able to use it anyway
 * "More recently with the advent of diversification..." and "...efforts are underway to form geology and heritage trails..." - beware using "recently" or "now" or writing anything that won't be super out of date in three, five or ten years time. It's really easy to do and really important to e aware of. Lots of experienced editors make this mistake.
 * "In March 1998 for the first time, a Laid Grazing Committee was elected..." - has potential. A source of some kind would be grand
 * "Visitors can also find two very well reviewed B&Bs and a lovely wee tearoom..." - this is what really got me. We absolutely can't have stuff like this on Wikipedia. It's clearly point of view if not promotional. If there are sources then we might note that they exist, but that's it
 * Glob - should be in the article for sure. I recall reading about her in a couple of articles but clearly never edited the page to include the details


 * I suggest you take a look at some of the better quality articles we have about places up here. Cape Wrath isn't bad and Durness is OK, although it needs a tonne more references really. When you're looking for refs try and avoid blog style sites if you can - even places like the Durness wix site are potentially dodgy as they are self published essentially - or may appear to be so. They can be used but be careful - try and get stuff from the local newspapers for example.
 * Then try ad write some stuff again. You've done absolutely the right thing by asking rather than what many people would do and simply reinserting the same stuff again without discussion. Unfortunately there are areas where you'll need to learn a bit about how we do things, even if it is to edit this article (and please try and add some stuff to other nearby articles - Eriboll, Sangobeg etc... could all use some work. Blue Square Thing (talk) 22:16, 1 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Second reply - citations show people that something is true and isn't being made up. Where they're possible, please use them. It helps people who don't know the area to be certain that what you're writing is reliable. These things do actually matter - if that makes me a pedant then that's fine by me; what it also does is ensure that the other reputation of wikipedia - that there's way too much stuff that's made up and therefore unreliable - is combatted.


 * On the specific "hard but happy" point - this is clearly point of view. id everyone have a hard life? Absolutely everyone? Was everyone happy? Everyone? That's a suggestion that is too far I'm afraid and, actually, goes to the heart of Wikipedia needs to avoid doing.


 * And please don't link to a Facebook page. Trust me, there are good reasons to avoid this.


 * I write a long, point by point reply. I could have ignored your points entirely but I didn't. That's because I care that we get it right and because I'm encouraging you to write more in the style of an encyclopaedia. Blue Square Thing (talk) 05:19, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

3rd reply
It's a shame that you have chosen to act this way as much of this information has been passed down through word of mouth and it may be written somewhere but I doubt it ever made it online. I certainly can't find it. It's fine, it's Wikipedia's loss. Myself and others connected to Laid will do our best to ensure these facts are preserved for future generations. Thanks

CampbellFCampbellF (talk) 07:45, 2 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Try the Northern Times as a first stop. I know there is more information on Glob - I seem to recall a Telegraph article, but it might be another newspaper.


 * It is, of course, entirely possible that Wikipedia is not the best place for some of this information. We are, after all, talking about a really quite small place. Blue Square Thing (talk) 11:41, 2 October 2017 (UTC)