User talk:Caorongjin/Archive 3

DYK nomination of Manchurian plague
Hello! Your submission of Manchurian plague at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 11:47, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Articles for Creation: List of reviewers by subject notice
Hi, you are receiving this notice because you are listed as an active Articles for Creation reviewer.

Recently a list of reviewers by area of expertise was created. This notice is being sent out to alert you to the existence of that list, and to encourage you to add your name to it. If you or other reviewers come across articles in the queue where an acceptance/decline hinges on specialist knowledge, this list should serve to facilitate contact with a fellow reviewer.

To end on a positive note, the backlog has dropped below 1,500, so thanks for all of the hard work some of you have been putting into the AfC process!

Sent to all Articles for Creation reviewers as a one-time notice. To opt-out of all massmessage mailings, you may add Category:Wikipedians who opt out of message delivery to your user talk page. Regards, (talk) MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:35, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Manchurian plague
-- Guerillero &#124;  Parlez Moi  00:02, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

New Page Reviewer newsletter June 2020
Hello ,

NPP Sorting can be a great way to find pages needing new page patrolling that match your strengths and interests. Using ORES, it divides articles into topics such as Literature or Chemistry and on Geography. Take a look and see if you can find time to patrol a couple pages a day. With over 10,000 pages in the queue, the highest it's been since ACPERM, your help could really make a difference. In late February, Google added 5 new languages to Google Translate: Kinyarwanda, Odia (Oriya), Tatar, Turkmen and Uyghur. This expands our ability to find and evaluate sources in those languages.
 * Your help can make a difference
 * Google Adds New Languages to Google Translate
 * Discussions and Resources
 * A discussion on handling new article creation by paid editors is ongoing at the Village Pump.
 * Also at the Village Pump is a discussion about limiting participation at Articles for Deletion discussion.
 * A proposed new speedy deletion criteria for certain kinds of redirects ended with no consensus.
 * Also ending with no change was a proposal to change how we handle certain kinds of vector images.

Six Month Queue Data: Today – 10271 Low – 4991 High – 10271

To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself here MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:52, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

'Unreviewed'
I'm sorry, but I'm unclear what has happened. What does it mean that you've 'unreviewed' a page? And why did you do it?Jesswade88 (talk) 18:17, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, did I "unreview" the page? I'm sorry if I did that by accident, as I meant to mark it as "reviewed." Gratefully, somebody else has done so already. Sorry for the confusion. FYI, all new pages are reviewed under the WP:NPP to make sure they have all the bits and pieces which are expected in pages on Wikipedia. --Caorongjin (talk) 18:43, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

New Page Patrol December Newsletter
Hello ,



It has been a productive year for New Page Patrol as we've roughly cut the size of the New Page Patrol queue in half this year. We have been fortunate to have a lot of great work done by who was the reviewer of the most pages and redirects this past year. Thanks and credit go to and  who join Rosguill in repeating in the top 10 from last year. Thanks to, , and who all got the NPR permission this year and joined the top 10. Also new to the top ten is DannyS712 bot III, programmed by which has helped to dramatically reduce the number of redirects that have needed human patrolling by patrolling certain types of redirects (e.g. for differences in accents) and by also patrolling editors who are on on the redirect whitelist.
 * Year in review

has been named reviewer of the year for 2020. John has held the permission for just over 6 months and in that time has helped cut into the queue by reviewing more than 18,000 articles. His talk page shows his efforts to communicate with users, upholding NPP's goal of nurturing new users and quality over quantity.
 * Reviewer of the Year

As a special recognition and thank you has been awarded the first NPP Technical Achievement Award. His work programming the bot has helped us patrol redirects tremendously - more than 60,000 redirects this past year. This has been a large contribution to New Page Patrol and definitely is worthy of recognition.
 * NPP Technical Achievement Award

Six Month Queue Data: Today – 2262 Low – 2232 High – 10271

To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself here 18:17, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Unblock

 * Hello. Sorry for the inconvenience. Someone logged into this account, at 06:42 (UTC) today, along with several others around the same time. I assume they were able to change the associated email address and password. Could you have a quick check for me? -- zzuuzz (talk) 11:29, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I did not log into the account at 06:42 UTC today. The associated email address and password were not changed. I have gone ahead and used a new password.--Caorongjin (talk) 11:52, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, someone did - someone I would describe as a password cracker. Just bear with me while I look into this a bit further. -- zzuuzz (talk) 11:59, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Not a problem. To be fair, the original password was not all that secure. That's now been changed.--Caorongjin (talk) 12:02, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Do you mean the password has not changed, or the weak security has not changed, or is that a typo? Could you do me one more favour please - log out, then log in. -- zzuuzz (talk) 12:09, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Just logged out and in. What I meant was the old password (before this morning) had weak security; but I have since changed it with a more secure password.--Caorongjin (talk) 12:16, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks, unblocked. You can ask for 2FA if you wish, details here. Happy editing! -- zzuuzz (talk) 12:21, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks!--Caorongjin (talk) 12:51, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Nomination of Mayra Rivera for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Mayra Rivera is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Mayra Rivera until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Geoff &#124; Who, me? 19:30, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

"Church-state relations" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Church-state relations. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 April 11 until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. 86.23.109.101 (talk) 17:19, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

April 2021
Welcome to Wikipedia. It might not have been your intention, but you recently removed maintenance templates from British Chinese. When removing maintenance templates, please be sure to either resolve the problem that the template refers to, or give a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Please see Help:Maintenance template removal for further information on when maintenance templates should or should not be removed. If this was a mistake, don't worry, as your removal of this template has been reverted. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. Thank you. Cordless Larry (talk) 18:32, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for this, . I see I was a little hasty in removing the maintanence template. I have been spending a lot of time with the article the last few days, updating it and giving better/more references. Looking at it now, I think I can remove the article-level Template:More citations needed, though probably need it in the Society and commerce section (it is a section I need to think more of to rewrite). Would you mind taking a quick look? I also see you are an administration and would be grateful if you could take care of the WP:Copyvio I have flagged, which attributed to other unsourced materials. --Caorongjin (talk) 14:22, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your work, . Yes, I agree that the template can be removed now. I'd just recommend using Unreferenced section in that specific section you mention and maybe Citation needed elsewhere for individual unsourced statements. As for the copyvio, I'm not that experienced in dealing with revision deletions and since it goes all the way back to a 2008 revision, I'm unsure exactly how to deal with it. Pinging, who might be able to advise? Cordless Larry (talk) 14:41, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks, . I will make that change, and look forward to hearing from . --Caorongjin (talk) 14:46, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Copying within Wikipedia requires attribution
Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from Xenophobia and racism related to the COVID-19 pandemic into Social impact of the COVID-19 pandemic in the United Kingdom. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g.,. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted copied template on the talk pages of the source and destination. Please provide attribution for this duplication if it has not already been supplied by another editor, and if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, you should provide attribution for that also. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. If you are the sole author of the prose that was copied, attribution is not required. — Diannaa (talk) 15:32, 21 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Hi, thank you for this note. I usually do put the attribution in the edit summary (e.g. ), but for some reason missed it for this edit! Thank you for the kind reminder and adding the attribution on my behalf. --Caorongjin (talk) 17:08, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Articles for Creation July 2021 Backlog Elimination Drive
 Hello :

WikiProject Articles for creation is holding a  month long Backlog Drive!

The goal of this drive is to eliminate the backlog of unreviewed articles. The drive is running until 31 July 2021.

Barnstars will be given out as awards at the end of the drive.

There is currently a backlog of over articles, so start reviewing articles. We're looking forward to your help!

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject Articles for Creation at 21:53, 7 July 2021 (UTC). If you do not wish to recieve future notification, please remove your name from the mailing list.

New Page Patrol newsletter September 2021
Hello ,

Please join this discussion - there is increase in the abuse of Wikipedia and its processes by POV pushers, Paid Editors, and by holders of various user rights including Autopatrolled. Even our review systems themselves at AfC and NPR have been infiltrated. The good news is that detection is improving, but the downside is that it creates the need for a huge clean up - which of course adds to backlogs.

Copyright violations are also a serious issue. Most non-regular contributors do not understand why, and most of our  Reviewers are not experts on copyright law - and can't be expected to be, but  there is excellent, easy-to-follow advice on COPYVIO detection here.

At the time of the last newsletter (#25, December 2020) the backlog was only just over 2,000 articles. New Page Review is an official system. It's the only firewall against the inclusion of new, improper pages.

There are currently 706 New Page Reviewers plus a further 1,080 admins, but as much as nearly 90% of the patrolling is still being done by around only the 20 or so most regular patrollers.

If you are no longer very active on Wikipedia or you no longer wish to be part of the New Page Reviewer user group, please consider asking any admin to remove you from the list. This will enable NPP to have a better overview of its performance and what improvements need to be made to the process or its software. Various awards are due to be allocated by the end of the year and barnstars are overdue. If you would like to manage this, please let us know. Indeed, if you are interested in coordinating NPR, it does not involve much time and the tasks are described here. To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself here. Sent to 827 users. 04:30, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Requesting some article expansion help
Greetings,

Requesting your visit to Draft:Intellectual discourse over re-mosqueing of Hagia Sophia and article expansion help if you find your interest in the topic.

Thanks and warm regards

&#32;Bookku, &#39;Encyclopedias &#61; expanding information &#38; knowledge&#39; (talk) 16:36, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

WP:AFC Helper News
Hello! I wanted to drop a quick note for all of our AFC participants; nothing huge and fancy like a newsletter, but a few points of interest. Short and sweet, but there's always more to discuss at WT:AFC. Stop on by, maybe review a draft on the way? Whether you're one of our top reviewers, or haven't reviewed in a while, I want to thank you for helping out in the past and in the future. Cheers, Primefac, via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:59, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * AFCH will now show live previews of the comment to be left on a decline.
 * The template db-afc-move has been created - this template is similar to db-move when there is a redirect in the way of an acceptance, but specifically tells the patrolling admin to let you (the draft reviewer) take care of the actual move.

New Page Patrol newsletter May 2022
Hello ,

At the time of the last newsletter (No.26, September 2021), the backlog was 'only' just over 6,000 articles. In the past six months, the backlog has reached nearly 16,000, a staggering level not seen in several years. A very small number of users had been doing the vast majority of the reviews. Due to "burn-out", we have recently lost most of this effort. Furthermore, several reviewers have been stripped of the user right for abuse of privilege and the articles they patrolled were put back in the queue.

Several discussions on the state of the process have taken place on the talk page, but there has been no action to make any changes. The project also lacks coordination since the "position" is vacant.

In the last 30 days, only 100 reviewers have made more than 8 patrols and only 50 have averaged one review a day. There are currently Special:ListUsers/patroller New Page Reviewers, but about a third have not had any activity in the past month. All administrators have this permission, but only about a dozen significantly contribute to NPP.

This means we have an active pool of about 450 to address the backlog. We cannot rely on a few to do most of the work as that inevitably leads to burnout. A fairly experienced reviewer can usually do a review in a few minutes. If every active reviewer would patrol just one article per day, the backlog would very quickly disappear.

If you have noticed a user with a good understanding of Wikipedia notability and deletion, do suggest they help the effort by placing on their talk page.

If you are no longer very active on Wikipedia or you no longer wish to be part of the New Page Reviewer user group, please consider asking any admin to remove you from the list. This will enable NPP to have a better overview of its performance and what improvements need to be made to the process and its software.

To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself here. Sent 05:17, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

New Page Patrol newsletter June 2022
Hello ,

At the time of the last newsletter (No.27, May 2022), the backlog was approaching 16,000, having shot up rapidly from 6,000 over the prior two months. The attention the newsletter brought to the backlog sparked a flurry of activity. There was new discussion on process improvements, efforts to invite new editors to participate in NPP increased and more editors requested the NPP user right so they could help, and most importantly, the number of reviews picked up and the backlog decreased, dipping below 14,000 at the end of May.
 * Backlog status

Since then, the news has not been so good. The backlog is basically flat, hovering around 14,200. I wish I could report the number of reviews done and the number of new articles added to the queue. But the available statistics we have are woefully inadequate. The only real number we have is the net queue size.

In the last 30 days, the top 100 reviewers have all made more than 16 patrols (up from 8 last month), and about 70 have averaged one review a day (up from 50 last month).

While there are more people doing more reviews, many of the ~730 with the NPP right are doing little. Most of the reviews are being done by the top 50 or 100 reviewers. They need your help. We appreciate every review done, but please aim to do one a day (on average, or 30 a month).

A backlog reduction drive, coordinated by buidhe and Zippybonzo, will be held from July 1 to July 31. Sign up here. Barnstars will be awarded.
 * Backlog drive

Many new articles on schools are being created by new users in developing and/or non-English-speaking countries. The authors are probably not even aware of Wikipedia's projects and policy pages. WP:WPSCH/AG has some excellent advice and resources specifically written for these users. Reviewers could consider providing such first-time article creators with a link to it while also mentioning that not all schools pass the GNG and that elementary schools are almost certainly not notable.
 * TIP – New school articles

There is a new template available,, to show the current backlog. You can place it on your user or talk page as a reminder:
 * Misc

There has been significant discussion at WP:VPP recently on NPP-related matters (Draftification, Deletion, Notability, Verifiability, Burden). Proposals that would somewhat ease the burden on NPP aren't gaining much traction, although there are suggestions that the role of NPP be fundamentally changed to focus only on major CSD-type issues.


 * Reminders
 * Consider staying informed on project issues by putting the project discussion page on your watchlist.
 * If you have noticed a user with a good understanding of Wikipedia notability and deletion, suggest they help the effort by placing on their talk page.
 * If you are no longer very active on Wikipedia or you no longer wish to be part of the New Page Reviewer user group, please consider asking any admin to remove you from the list. This will enable NPP to have a better overview of its performance and what improvements need to be made to the process and its software.
 * To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself here.
 * Notes

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:01, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

NPP July 2022 backlog drive is on!
(t &#183; c)  buidhe  20:25, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

New Page Patrol newsletter August 2022
Hello ,

After the last newsletter (No.28, June 2022), the backlog declined another 1,000 to 13,000 in the last week of June. Then the July backlog drive began, during which 9,900 articles were reviewed and the backlog fell by 4,500 to just under 8,500 (these numbers illustrate how many new articles regularly flow into the queue). Thanks go to the coordinators and, as well as all the nearly 100 participants. Congratulations to who led with 880 points. See this page for further details.
 * Backlog status

Unfortunately, most of the decline happened in the first half of the month, and the backlog has already risen to 9,600. Understandably, it seems many backlog drive participants are taking a break from reviewing and unfortunately, we are not even keeping up with the inflow let alone driving it lower. We need the other 600 reviewers to do more! Please try to do at least one a day.


 * Coordination: and  have taken on some of the coordination tasks. Please let them know if you are interested in helping out.  will be handling recognition, and will be retroactively awarding the annual barnstars that have not been issued for a few years.


 * Open letter to the WMF: The Page Curation software needs urgent attention. There are dozens of bug fixes and enhancements that are stalled (listed at Suggested improvements). We have written a letter to be sent to the WMF and we encourage as many patrollers as possible to sign it here. We are also in negotiation with the Board of Trustees to press for assistance. Better software will make the active reviewers we have more productive.


 * TIP - Reviewing by subject: Reviewers who prefer to patrol new pages by their most familiar subjects can do so from the regularly updated sorted topic list.


 * New reviewers: The NPP School is being underused. The learning curve for NPP is quite steep, but a detailed and easy-to-read tutorial exists, and the Curation Tool's many features are fully described and illustrated on the updated page here.


 * Reminders
 * Consider staying informed on project issues by putting the project discussion page on your watchlist.
 * If you have noticed a user with a good understanding of Wikipedia notability and deletion, suggest they help the effort by placing on their talk page.
 * If you are no longer very active on Wikipedia or you no longer wish to be part of the New Page Reviewer user group, please consider asking any admin to remove you from the list. This will enable NPP to have a better overview of its performance and what improvements need to be made to the process and its software.
 * To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself here.

Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:24, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Request on 12:47:05, 11 August 2022 for assistance on AfC submission by BarI2021
Hello, I really do not understand what you mean... Aner is a professor in a top university, has book, articles and won awards. please tell me what do you want me to add?...

BarI2021 (talk) 12:47, 11 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Many academics are at top universities and have books and articles. But according to Wikipedia guidelines, that is not enough to be defined as "notable." This is outlined in WP:PROF and, in particular, WP:NACADEMIC. For the awards, they need to be "highly prestigious academic award or honor at a national or international level." If you are able to demonstrate one of the criteria as listed in WP:NACADEMIC, and demonstrate it from reliable secondary sources, it would be acceptable. But at the moment, the article does not demonstrate this.
 * As an aside, the article is highly dependent on primary sources (those written by the subject themself). You will want to draw from secondary sources.
 * I hope that is helpful. —Caorongjin 💬 13:27, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes it is so thank you first of all.
 * With that being said, he meets more than one of the conditions in WP:NACADEMIC, maybe due to it being in Hebrew it's not obivious? BarI2021 (talk) 09:27, 14 August 2022 (UTC)


 * , the point is the article does not demonstrate these criteria. Yes, they need to be verifiable in Hebrew or any other language. But you said the subject has won awards, but that is not explained and cited in the article. You say they have written books and cite book reviews, which are common academic practices; how has the subject’s research had “significant impact in their scholarly discipline” and “highly cited.” —Caorongjin 💬 10:27, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello again, I will make some changes are resubmit. BarI2021 (talk) 12:46, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
 * As can be seen, I added a few more sources to support as well as external links BarI2021 (talk) 14:07, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

NPP message
Hi ,

For those who may have missed it in our last newsletter, here's a quick reminder to see the letter we have drafted, and if you support it, do please go ahead and sign it. If you already signed, thanks. Also, if you haven't noticed, the backlog has been trending up lately; all reviews are greatly appreciated.
 * Invitation

To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself here. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:10, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Board of Trustees election
Thank you for supporting the NPP initiative to improve WMF support of the Page Curation tools. Another way you can help is by voting in the Board of Trustees election. The next Board composition might be giving attention to software development. The election closes on 6 September at 23:59 UTC. View candidate statement videos and Vote Here. MB 03:19, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

American Citizens for Justice moved to draftspace
An article you recently created, American Citizens for Justice, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of " " before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page.  Onel 5969  TT me 14:02, 20 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks. You are probably correct to draftify the article, although it was not mine to begin with but a split from the of @Tristanschmit. When I get a chance, I will try to expand the article. But I do also encourage @Tristanschmit or anybody else to do so as well. It is clearly a notable organization, per Wikipedia guidlines, although the article itself does not express that all that well. —Caorongjin 💬 16:12, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

October 2022 New Pages Patrol backlog drive
(t &#183; c)  buidhe  21:16, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

New Page Patrol newsletter October 2022
Hello , Much has happened since the last newsletter over two months ago. The open letter finished with 444 signatures. The letter was sent to several dozen people at the WMF, and we have heard that it is being discussed but there has been no official reply. A related article appears in the current issue of The Signpost. If you haven't seen it, you should, including the readers' comment section.

Awards: Barnstars were given for the past several years (thanks to ), and we are now all caught up. The 2021 cup went to for leading with 26,525 article reviews during 2021. To encourage moderate activity, a new "Iron" level barnstar is awarded annually for reviewing 360 articles ("one-a-day"), and 100 reviews earns the "Standard" NPP barnstar. About 90 reviewers received barnstars for each of the years 2018 to 2021 (including the new awards that were given retroactively). All awards issued for every year are listed on the Awards page. Check out the new Hall of Fame also. Software news: and  have connected with WMF developers who can review and approve patches, so they have been able to fix some bugs, and make other improvements to the Page Curation software. You can see everything that has been fixed recently here. The reviewer report has also been improved. Suggestions:
 * There is much enthusiasm over the low backlog, but remember that the "quality and depth of patrolling are more important than speed".
 * Reminder: an article should not be tagged for any kind of deletion for a minimum of 15 minutes after creation and it is often appropriate to wait an hour or more. (from the NPP tutorial)
 * Reviewers should focus their effort where it can do the most good, reviewing articles. Other clean-up tasks that don't require advanced permissions can be left to other editors that routinely improve articles in these ways (creating Talk Pages, specifying projects and ratings, adding categories, etc.) Let's rely on others when it makes the most sense. On the other hand, if you enjoy doing these tasks while reviewing and it keeps you engaged with NPP (or are guiding a newcomer), then by all means continue.
 * This user script puts a link to the feed in your top toolbar.

Backlog: Saving the best for last: From a July low of 8,500, the backlog climbed back to 11,000 in August and then reversed in September dropping to below 6,000 and continued falling with the October backlog drive to under 1,000, a level not seen in over four years. Keep in mind that there are 2,000 new articles every week, so the number of reviews is far higher than the backlog reduction. To keep the backlog under a thousand, we have to keep reviewing at about half the recent rate!


 * Reminders
 * Newsletter feedback - please take this short poll about the newsletter.
 * If you're interested in instant messaging and chat rooms, please join us on the New Page Patrol Discord, where you can ask for help and live chat with other patrollers.
 * Please add the project discussion page to your watchlist.
 * If you are no longer very active on Wikipedia or you no longer wish to be a reviewer, please ask any admin to remove you from the group. If you want the tools back again, just ask at PERM.
 * To opt out of future mailings, please remove yourself here.

Liberation theology articles
Stop vandalizing. Gondolabúrguer (talk) 20:29, 14 November 2022 (UTC)


 * On what basis do you think Caorongjin has been editing in bad faith? I don't see any evidence that they have. —C.Fred (talk) 20:46, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The information about the documentary is legitimate, relevant, open - it matches everything for Wikipedia. It is the only documentary criticizing Marxist theology in Portuguese. You cannot erase it. Stop censorship NOW. Gondolabúrguer (talk) 20:59, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Gondolabúrguer, like the above comment, I am not sure how I am vandalizing and would be grateful if you could clarify. —Caorongjin 💬 20:53, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, you are vandalizing the article, for reasons of censorship. Gondolabúrguer (talk) 20:59, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

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Matthias Lu
Hi, I noticed that you had accepted at AfC Matthias Lu (I saw it pop up on my watch list, as I had previously declined it). Can you help me understand what makes this person notable? He seems like a rank-and-file clergyman, possibly a minor academic... and that's about it. There are a couple of secondary sources cited, but the citations are done in a way that gives no clue as to how significantly they cover the subject, and in any case two sources isn't really enough. I'm just asking because I wouldn't have accepted that draft in a million years, but perhaps I'm missing something, so I'm curious? Thanks, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:26, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi there, I approved it mainly on the basis of the Center directorship. But that may have been a bit quick as, in deeper examination, the Center doesn’t seem notable by itself. His works (translations) seem to be cited but it’s harder to track in Chinese. I wouldn’t be opposed if you wish to raise a WP:AFD. —Caorongjin 💬 18:23, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Jia Yuming
Hi Dr Chow, very happy to see a real expert on the field lending a hand. I hope I read the sources correctly, especially with regard to his theology - I must admit that the readings were quite dense to me & there was so much that I left out because it just seemed out of my reach. (I see you've even written a book on theosis!) Still, I cobbled together as much as I could get my hands on, and please feel free to expand it - sure seems like an important figure in the history of Christianity in China. An image or two would be the icing on the cake. Cheers, KINGofLETTUCE 👑  🥬 23:35, 22 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Oh my, and to think I even cited one of your works in passing. (I only just revisited the article today and just skimmed thru the books the first time round, so once again I apologise if they weren't utilised as best as possible.) This is quite incredible! KINGofLETTUCE 👑  🥬 23:42, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
 * BTW, sorry to undo your punctuation changes, but MOS:LQ strictly states: "Use the "logical quotation" style in all articles, regardless of the variety of English in which they are written." KINGofLETTUCE 👑  🥬 00:18, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * The article is a very well put together article and, indeed, covers Jia's main biography and theology. Well done!
 * I updated the two reverts, due to factual errors. Hope that is OK.
 * It would be incorrect to say he was the earliest Chinese Christian theologians, as there were others before him, especially Catholics. Somebody like Liang Fa produced a number of influential theological works, albeit not the same volume and quality as Jia. Some people would also even include Hong Xiuquan. Anyhow, the point is it is best to state he is one of the earliest "Protestant" theologians.
 * Concerning the TSPM, it only existed as a preparatory committee in 1951 and officially established in 1954. As you can read in the TSPM article, it was originally given the longer name "Preparatory Committee for the Oppose-America, Assist-Korea Three-Self Reform Movement of the Christian Church," mainly because of the Korean war. Also, the reference you are using is not a historical work and in translation—and a work I endorsed! I am not entirely sure how Jia could have spoken about the "TSPM" in 1951. As you say, that is what is in the reference and I don't have access to a better resource at the moment.
 * Thanks again for starting this article. He is a very important figure and I'm glad you put together the article. I have been meaning to create one but am glad you have done it! And thanks for the MOS:LQ—news to me. —Caorongjin 💬 10:30, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * That's high praise coming from you! Hope eventually we and whoever else is interested can improve the article to GA-standard at least.
 * 1) I had a feeling there would have been many Christian theologians of some sort before him, but I kind of uncritically followed what Lui wrote: "... because Jia was one of the earliest (Chinese) theologians, Bible expositors, and theologian educators." There is no qualification of "Protestant" in that source, so I wonder if our qualification borders on original research.
 * 2a) Likewise, I don't think the source talks about the longer name but I can't access the full source. Pg. 57 certainly doesn't mention this fact. It would be ideal if the part about the TSPM being originally named so and so could be cited.
 * 2b) To be fair, the supposed "against the will of God" quote isn't dated and this article doesn't say when either. I had hoped that there would be a citation in Wang's book but there doesn't appear to be one. Similar to the 2a) problem, pg. 57 of Wang's book doesn't support the fact that 1954 was when the permanent TSPM was established, so I think that might need to be omitted until a direct cite can be found.
 * That's the trouble with WP:V... Even though I know you're literally an expert who'd know the facts better than anybody else, I can't just "take your word for it" (I definitely would in any other context!) and we will need to directly cite those at some point.
 * Thank you for the help once again! I am happy to have dipped my toes into this sea that is the history of Christianity in China (but probably have read as much about Jia as I'd like---from a Protestant POV, the "Christ-human" doctrine seems heretical to me, much like what the Witness Lee/Watchman Nee "cult" preaches, tho I haven't studied it to the point of being able to say with certainty that it is.) I digress... Perhaps I should buy your book. 😂 KINGofLETTUCE 👑  🥬 17:30, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the help once again! I am happy to have dipped my toes into this sea that is the history of Christianity in China (but probably have read as much about Jia as I'd like---from a Protestant POV, the "Christ-human" doctrine seems heretical to me, much like what the Witness Lee/Watchman Nee "cult" preaches, tho I haven't studied it to the point of being able to say with certainty that it is.) I digress... Perhaps I should buy your book. 😂 KINGofLETTUCE 👑  🥬 17:30, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Lui’s book is entirely about Protestantism. So as you may be able to presume it is about “Chinese,” I think you can also presume “Protestant.” Either that or there would be a different definition of “theologian.”

For 2, the article talks about the “Three-Self Preparatory Committee,” but nothing longer. Any standard reference (Wickeri, Bays, etc.) would clarify the (July?) 1954 date for the establishment of the TSPM, but not necessarily connected to Jia.

I suppose there is always a grey area between interpretation of a text and “original research.” Obviously, we try to keep our due diligence! —Caorongjin 💬 19:35, 23 December 2022 (UTC)


 * I'm personally fine with the qualification, makes perfect sense to me. Just preempting possible objections. This also begs the question of what "Protestant" is...
 * Bays writes, "The Three Self had been operating for three years already, since the 1951 meeting, but 1954 was the first national-level ratification of its legitimacy. Nothing of major importance was changed at the 1954 meeting." Also, it seems a little anachronistic to write, "In 1951, the Prep Committee for the TPSM..."? All this is to say, I'm wondering if it's better to leave out all this "historical background" altogether because it's not directly connected to Jia's story. To preserve some accuracy, we could just not mention exactly when the TSPM was formed. I rejigged the paragraph a little to see if ^ this can work. Cheers, KINGofLETTUCE 👑  🥬 20:15, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Global majority
BorgQueen (talk) 00:02, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

New Pages Patrol newsletter January 2023
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New Page Patrol – May 2023 Backlog Drive
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:11, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Asian Australians WikiProject
Hi,

I am looking for members to join WikiProject Council/Proposals/Asian Australians. I see that you are a member of the Asian American WikiProject, so I think that they have shared history your help would be useful. Especially with Chinese immigration and subsequent discrimination with the California gold rush and the Australian Gold Rush Era. Let me know if you are interested.

Thanks, AverageFraud (talk) 10:15, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

New Pages Patrol newsletter June 2023
Hello , Backlog

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Sent by using  at 06:58, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Boston Collaborative Encyclopedia of Western Theology


The article Boston Collaborative Encyclopedia of Western Theology has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern: "This article has been unsourced for over a decade and there are no usable sources. The only potential target for a redirect does not mention this subject."

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Nomination of Boston Collaborative Encyclopedia of Western Theology for deletion
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New page patrol October 2023 Backlog drive
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:13, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:45, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

November Articles for creation backlog drive
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New pages patrol January 2024 Backlog drive
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:10, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

New Pages Patrol newsletter April 2024
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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:27, 2 April 2024 (UTC)