User talk:CaptainVegas

YouTube links
Hi. I see that you have again linked the Fred Gamble article to the video you uploaded to YouTube. I completely understand that you are acting in good faith and hoping to provide material to complement the Wikipedia article; however, Wikipedia has very strict rules regarding the copyright status of pages linked to from pages here. Please see WP:ELNEVER for a brief overview. At present, it is far from clear that you own the copyright to the film that you uploaded. As you indicate in your edit summary and in the the film intro it would seem that the film was a commercial promotional film made by the Gambles on behalf of the Camoradi USA organisation. The copyright for the film therefore presumably lies with either Fred Gamble or with the legal successor to the Camoradi team; "CaptainVegas007" could be anyone. The film is great, and would be a great thing to point people to for more information on Gamble and Casner's team, but without clarification of the copyright status and your rights to the film the assumption has to be (based on long experience of abuse on YouTube) that the copyright status of the film is, at best, dubious. Please don't re-add the film until you can provide some details and proof.  Pyrop e  03:41, 29 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Well glad to make your acquaintance, and well done on getting that video up onto YouTube, it really is fascinating watching. The major problem we might have in getting your father's page sorted out is that the yardstick for inclusion on Wikipedia follows the dictum "verifiability, not truth". (For a full discussion see WP:V - as a general rule of thumb, where an article of Wikipedia protocol has an abbreviated link, the shorter the link the more important the protocol.) While on the surface this may seem odd, it actually stems from Wikipedia's aim to be a compendium of existing knowledge, not a forum for disseminating new knowledge. Hence, information already has to be in the public sphere before it can be properly included in Wikipedia. In other words, and using academic terminology, we always use secondary sources, not primary sources. Of course, there is plenty of abuse of this out there, and undoubtedly we lose some relevant and interesting information because of it, but in the long run it helps to avoid misinformation, bias, contradiction, and infighting. The problem is, your discussions with your father and his memories are most certainly primary sources, so attributing some of the information you uploaded is likely nigh-on impossible. Racing information (the nitty-gritty of race reports, classifications, and so on) can likely be attributed to sources such as Road & Track, Motor Sport and the like, and there may be articles in magazines discussing the Casner/Gamble/Camoradi story that could be used. However, the early years stuff and some of the "whys" might be hard to track down a source for. Ideally, there'd be a good profile piece in a magazine, or a decent book, but as the only book I can find that might be of use is Michel Bollée's French language "Lucky: L'histoire de CAMORADI et de Lucky Casner" I seem to be a bit stuck. You may be in a better place than me to point out good, published sources that already exist. I think that your father's life and times sound fascinating, and definitely worth including in Wikipedia, but it may take some effort to make a good page. There are corners that can be cut, and i's and t's that don't need dotting and crossing just yet, so that we can get the page up and running fairly soon, but in the long run there are editors on Wikipedia who may take issue with that approach and without something that fulfills the "verifiability" requirement it will be hard to defend. For now, getting some indication in the film that you (the YouTube you, that is) have the right to upload it would mean that we could likely add it back in as a link here (think, a copyright notice in the film intro explicitly using your YouTube username, or similar). For the page, I certainly don't mind giving it a quick copyedit, adding in a couple of internet sources to back up your father's claim to notability (yet more protocol, see WP:N), and making it look the part. Hopefully, in the long run you've got your eye on producing something along the lines of a memoir, or perhaps a book on Camoradi as seen from the inside, but until your books hit the store shelves we'll improvise! Hope that helps some, and I look forward to anything else you might be able to add. Bye for now.  Pyrop e  19:26, 30 December 2011 (UTC)