User talk:Captain scarlet/Archive1

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Image on my talk page
Thanks for your attention to the image that User:Xalwine (talk • contribs) linked from my talk page. I didn't want to deal with the image earlier because this user is a sock puppet for User:Asquared (talk • contribs) and I suspected that the image may be some kind of personal attack&mdash;so I didn't want to view it at work. As it turns out it was just a straight forward copyvio, so I have deleted it. Thanks also for reverting vandalism at the Sheffield article today. Also, I noticed that you added to the Millhouses article information on the former train shed&mdash;including that it is still standing. I was under the impression that Tescos had demolished it, so I was quite pleased to discover that this is not the case. If you happened to be in the area could you get a photo? I'd be interested to see it, but also a photo would be a good addition to the Millhouses article. JeremyA 00:30, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Pictures
Thanks for you kind note. It's great to see so many pictures appearing in the Sheffield-related articles; keep up the good work! Warofdreams talk 02:29, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Greetings from Paris
Hello! Are you knowledgable about all things Paris? Your input would be much appreciated on the Paris page - we are a few who would like to see it reach 'featured' quality and need all the help we can get getting it there. If you know anyone else with a good lot of know-how in the same area, please don't hesitate to ask them too. Thanks!

T HE P ROMENADER 20:19, 11 March 2006 (UTC)


 * It was your contribution to the "Petite Ceinture" article that drew my attention to your know-how : ) Please contribute in any way you can - thanks a million!  T HE P ROMENADER  20:57, 11 March 2006 (UTC)


 * You're welcome  T HE P ROMENADER, our paths no doubt meet at some point in opur various edits. Take care. :) Captain scarlet 21:02, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Hey, thanks. And if you can bring some of your valuble knowledge to the Transport in Paris article I began (but have not edited) some time ago, please do. As well as the Chemin de fer de Petite Ceinture - I'm still looking for machines for it. Do you know of any place where that sort of image would be available? I'm thinking the Buddicom engines, the 0T40's ... got a nice layout in mind but no images. I could 'doctor' a few 'other line' engines to make them look 'PC' if needed. Thanks, take care. T HE P ROMENADER 17:03, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Paris Questions
Copy of User:Hardouin's talk page, kept here in reponse to User:Hardouin dismissal of other wikipedians' comments

Especially in the light of your misbehaviour these past days, it is very rude to all concerned to reply to a problem not even addressed to you and ignore others that concern you directly. I'll have you know that I am formulating a direct complaint against your months of page appropriation and predjudiced reverts. This will take some time to formulate as, although you pretend to have a short memory, there are months and months of nonsense to compile. I only regret that I must waste so much time on this - in order to allow an unbridled editing of - one article. Cordially, T HE P ROMENADER 19:05, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I have reverted your changes to avoid forgetting about this. I would also like to second ThePromenader's claims and will actively help him to back up his claim to retain consistent and accurate articles. You have clearly abused your status as editing user, dismissing other users' comments and avoiding citing your sources or proving your edits.

A copy of this section will be kept in case it gets forgotten again. Regards, Captain scarlet 19:41, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Transilien network
Extract from Hardouin talk page.


 * Please refrain form deleting SNCF Ile de France from the Paris public transport template. You have not accepted any concession to create an accurate scheme of articles so you had better accept this one. I stand my ground and will continue to add SNCF Ile de France for as long as it takes for it to remain there. A copy of this discussion will be saved on my discussion page. Regards, Captain Scarlet 18:00 24 March 2006 (GMT).

Transilien services
Captain Scarlet, firstly, when you want to talk to Hardouin, the best is to send a message on his page and not on mine. However, as I've read your message, I must tell you that I'm really sceptic towards your way of reasoning. Indeed, Paris public transports infobox is dedicated to the transportation services in Paris region. I personally consider that it's significant to write articles about SNCF national rail networks, however, I believe it would be better to create a proper infobox dedicated to them instead of "parasiting" the Paris transport one. Transilien SNCF services have more their place in that infobox than national rail networks, I guess you agree with this. It's just a matter of coherence. Metropolitan 19:45 24 March 2006 (CET).


 * I have already engaged conversation on Hardouin's talk page but he usually dismisses them or simply delete them. There reason Hardouin and myself dissagree is that unlike his scheme which stricly includes only parisian, mine includes both transilien and grandes-lignes. I offered to include him in the current SNCF's organisational sctructure but was brutaly rebuffed. I have repeated that there are no Transilien station-name structures in place at the SNCF and the only Transilien network (not lines as it is currently stated on the page) is Transilien altogether (formely Ile-de-France). This is where we dissagree and will never agree, i cannot stress this enough. My edit of 19:52, 24 March 2006 (Wikipedia time) reflects my wish to be as precise as possible. I have not deleted Hardouin's content and do not wish to impose my scheme. It is unfair to and from anyone to impose any kind of system unless justificated and if Hardouin wishes to keep his imaginary articles online i don't see why not but they should not be linked from other articles or Wikipedians will think this is the correct structure which it isn't. I have no wish to start an argument or contribute to one but I will not accept any member imposing their system especially if it is wrong. I wish to make it clear Transilien station-name do not exist. Regards, Captain Scarlet 18:54 24 March 2006 (GMT).

images on commons
Hi! I notice that you now have a number of your images uploaded to both wikipedia and the commons. As the images on the commons can be used in wikipedia articles it isn't necessary to keep a local copy at wikipedia--so I was wondering if you would like me to delete any of the wikipedia versions for you. Also, I was reading what you wrote about Bridgehouses... maybe you can answer this question: did the ringroad extension destroy the old tunnel entrance? (this one). Thanks, JeremyA 23:27, 24 March 2006 (UTC)


 * 'evening Jeremy. You may certainly delete the duplicate images, I was hoping someone would since I had firstly uploaded images to Wikipedia en then to the Commons, I was stuck. There are some pictures which have the same name, some others which haven't: good luck. And no, the Bridgehouses-Wicker tunnel has not been destroyed (thank goodness), it is on the northern side of the Woodhead Line whilst the Inner Ring Road works are on the southern side of the Woodhead Line. You should be able to access it either by gatecrashing through the car park on Chatam Street or by going through the woods on Brunswick Road. You going there this weekend ? Cheers, Captain Scarlet 23:34 24 March 2006 (GMT)


 * I wish! It's nearly 2 years since I was last in Sheffield. My mum's there at the moment though, so it would be good to visit. Unfortunately I live here at the moment, so it's quite a long way to travel. I was really just asking because I'm interested in random left-over bits of history like that. JeremyA 00:23, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeeeh... I can see how that would be a problem (pwned). I have a rather big interest in inductrial era relics like that too, henc emy trip to Millhouses Shed, Tinsley Yard, Lincoln's grain warehouse, that dissued bunker up in the hills near my parents'... Someone was living in that engine shed too ! Now from the articles I have written, you should be able to pin point my place of living to the nearest 100m. Yaay, Green Wing is on telly... Cheers, Captain Scarlet 00:28 25 March 2006 (GMT)


 * I originally thought that you might live in Totley but now I'd guess that it is quite close to here. I think that I deleted most of the duplicate images: if you want you can check my deletion log to see which ones I did. JeremyA 04:05, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Correct ! Thanks for the deletionqs, I'll start looking around to see if there are any broken links. Cheers, Captain Scarlet 09:30 25 March 2006 (GMT)

Meersbrook and Norton Lees
Hi! I already moved the mention of Bishops' House from Meersbrook to Norton Lees and I'm thinking that the information on Lees House should go there too. I don't know that area particularly well so I'm not sure where Meersbrook ends and Norton Lees starts, but the 1903 OS map of the area shows Norton Lees as just a cluster of houses around the junction of Norton Lees Lane and Norton Lees Road--in fact it seems to be little more than four large houses (Lees House, Westview, The Hollies, and Thorpe House), the church and Bishops' House (shown but not named on the map). JeremyA 17:19, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Heyup, from what I know, Bishops' House is definitely in Meersbrook. I have had this OS map of Meersbrook online for a while here so have a look. I'd leave Lees House in Norton Lees but put back Bishops' House in Meersbrook. Lees House is on the road that makes the boundary between Meersbrook and Norton Lees so the House is in Norton Lees, but Bishops is in Meersbrook. Regards, Captain Scarlet 17:32 25 March 2006 (GMT)


 * The district boundaries in Sheffield are somewhat fuzzy. However, the council seem to agree with you in where they put the boundary between Graves Park Ward (which they say includes Norton Lees) and Gleadless Valley Ward (which they say includes Meersbrook). The current Ordnance Survey show Norton Lees as a sub-district rather than a full blown district (smaller lettering on the map than Meerbrook or Norton Woodseats) suggesting that Norton Lees is really a part of one of the other districts. However, the old map, which dates from when Norton Lees was still a village surrounded by open countryside, shows Bishops' House as part that village. A compromise would be to mention it in both articles. Whilst I'm looking at maps--the OS map marks the junction of Abbeydale Road South and Abbey Lane as Abbeydale, but I've always thought of that area as part of Beauchief, in fact I didn't think that there really was a district called Abbeydale and that the name refers to the whole of the Sheaf Valley. Would you look at what I wrote at Abbeydale and see if you agree with it. Thanks, JeremyA 17:58, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree on having Bishops' House both in Meersbrook and Norton Lees, why not slice the apple in half on this one. Concerning Norton Lees, it is indded not an area in its own right if you see what I mean. Even having the limit of Graves Park (god know why the ward is called that way, it's more like Norton-Woodseats), Norton Lees would seem to be a bit in Norton, a bit in Woodseats and a bit in Meersbrook. when Sheffield started to grow neither Norton or Meersbrook where in Sheffield, and places like Cliffield House were part of the urban sprawl of Meersbrook, now maybe now, you would identify these places to be more in Norton Lees... In doubt, put them in both !
 * I have some photos coming which you should like seeing, Sheffield & snow. Regards, Captain Scarlet 18:34 25 March 2006 (GMT)

The_Sheaf_View_thumbnail.jpg
Hello, thanks for the welcome message on my talk page. Just thought I'd point out that the above mentioned image on your user page (under the "Webmaster of" section) appears to have been deleted. 168pin 19:12, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Ha thanks, Jeremya (an admin) deleted some of my images which I had uploaded onto wikipedia EN before I uploaded them onto the Commons, he asked me if he could delete the duplicates on EN which I was happy for him to do, he's replaced the broken links due to the change but must have forgotten that one, thanks for pointing it out. The image can be seen Here. Regards, Captain Scarlet 20:56 26 March 2006 (GMT)

Denvilles - help needed
I suspect your knowledge or at least your reference books cover the deep south. Please look at Denvilles railway station and add a note to the (redirected) talk page as to whether you think it existed or not. (Or just put it up for AfD straight away!) -- RHaworth 00:53, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

No need to bother, I got one confirmation and have put it up to AfD. -- RHaworth 04:04, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Sheffield stations templates
Apologies if the current version I've left the closed stations template in isn't what you intended, but I was a bit confused by the various edit conflicts and edit summaries. Have you got any objection to having one template listing both open and closed stations? Pictures optional. Warofdreams talk 17:11, 31 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I have no immediate objection, but I intend (i oculdn't at work) on having TWO distinct templates, one for open, one for closed stations, this could be viewed as maybe laborious and restrictive, but There is a category regrouping all past and present stations in Sheffield and I was hoping for a distinctive 'historical' section not including current stations which have not become TOCland and fill of First this, Northern that. the ONLY problem is Meadowhall, since the original Meadowhall station is the one up the road, and the station in the site of the Interchange was Meado'll & Wincobank, I haven't yet opened these articles as I have lent my books to my uncle. I have put pictures to keep on the theme of transport templates, including french Nationales, Motorways and Sheffield stations (created whilst i spilt some mayonnaise on my work shirt). Regards, Captain scarlet 17:15, 31 March 2006 (UTC)


 * In a slight childish way, I think the potos make the template cooler... Oh dear PoV ! Captain scarlet 17:16, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Egg
Hey Greg, do you like Egg?



--Davidwil 15:38, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

P.S. How about a corner from a wooden skip?

What about ham? User:Davidwil

I love ham, do you like car parks ? Captain scarlet 12:19, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Car parks are good, unless your car is too big to fit in. Davidwil 12:37, 24 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Do you like transportation? Davidwil 22:25, 24 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I effing hate tranportation, it's a stupid american Webster way of saying thing. Captain scarlet 22:27, 24 April 2006 (UTC)


 * What about Tin Tin?


 * Do you like wheel barrows? Davidwil 08:52, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I prefer wooden horse drawn carts Captain scarlet 08:54, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


 * You like the new category i made for my hometown? Davidwil 11:59, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I saw it earlier, it's allgood. you'll have to add Category:Grimsby for buildings and structures, people or other things in Grimsby though.


 * Cheers for the pointers man. Cya tonight for the award winning quiz! Davidwil


 * I've created the Category:Grimsby, put it into NE Lincs cat, and removed the NE Lincs cat from it. You now have a category to include all things Grimsby (the docks tower, the harbour, Frechney Place...). See you tonight for Andy's award winning rubbish quiz, taketh careth. Captain scarlet 12:28, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Station article names
Before you go moving any more railway station articles, I suggest you read this note from Thryduulf. The policy may have changed, so I am prepared to accept Thryduulf's arbitration as to whether it should be, for example, Tinsley railway station or Tinsley Station. -- RHaworth 17:59, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I have only moved closed stations articles that I had originally created. Thryduulf's proposed convention has not been accepted and has been going on for a month or so and is just degenerating. I have moved a few opened station articles but only in the case of those which are significantly known as Station (as in it's part of their name). I will not start a nationwide campaign of raneming as I am not interested in imposing my style and I have properly categorised and referenced the stations so even with my apparent unorthodox naming scheme there are no links to the former naming ans they can easily be found. I'm getting pretty bored of Thryduulf to be frank and he seems to be more interested in spamming the Commons with literally hundreds of images using the Commons as no more than Imagsh*t or Fotosh*t. I just can't accept this proposed scheme as it is simply wrong. I will though restrict my moves to a certain geographical area and change redirects and wikilinks as to not create black holes. Regards, Captain scarlet 17:20, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid I only understood parts of the message you left on my talk page and I'm not certain what you meant my sarcasm on other users' talk pages at all. My comments this morning were related to the move of Birmingham New Street railway station to Birmingham New Street (which I don't believe was done by you) - not only was this a copy and paste move (which is the wrong way to do things, regardless of anything else) but it was also directly against a very recent consensus on that page and to a title that was not even being discussed. I'm thinking about the "X station" proposal - its better than "X Station" but imho not as good as "X railway station" (all the reasons have been gone over time and time again). There is currently no consensus for anything ("X railway station", "X station", "X Station", the recently proposed (and imho truly horrible) "X (railway station)" or anything else) which means that no pages should be moved from their current titles (no consensus almost always means leave things as they are). Thryduulf 11:39, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I was actually referring to the other participants' comments. I have noted your edit summaries and I'm ok with them. I'm afraid I will just not be able to agree on railway station, that's not what they are called (that's what they are, but not named using the term). I offered this compromise and I think it's a good way to start going forward, that also means that article linking to station articles won't continuously have to be formated like this: Random Town Station, but simply Random Town station which will facilitate our lives a great deal. Just... No brackets! Regards, Captain scarlet 11:57, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

vlaki.com -- my bad!
Hi! I'm sorry for removing vlaki.com from the supertram page. However, late last night (and admittedly after a few beers) I couldn't find the photos. Do you run the site? If so might I be so bold as to suggest that the navigation is a little confusing—on arrival at the page I was presented with a map of the supertram system and a menu down the left side. One of the items in the menu was 'photos' so I clicked that and it took me to a large index page. From the index page I clicked through to 'Shefield supertram' and it took me back to the map, so I clicked 'photos' and the circle starts again. This morning, after you had reinserted the link I went back to the page to look for the photos again, and it still took me a while to work out how to get to them. JeremyA 15:48, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Hehehe, no problem, the Supertram section used to have boxes for each stop but the owner thought it'd be posh and sweet to have an interactive map. I do not run or own the website, if i did i owuldn't have indexed the website as it'd be viewed as advertising. If you use the links above the map and go to England you will find that South Yorkshire, Supertram and London have interactive maps. I won't comment on your drinking of beer since I was pretty plastered on Wednesday night after me birthday party. If you find some interesting photos on Vlaki (the slovenian for train), there are several thousands (50 000) of photos and I have about 10 000 of them there. I am happy to upload a smaller yet unrestricted version on the Commons if you have a particular photo in mind. Regards, Captain scarlet 17:22, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Millhouses engine shed
Hi! I'm wondering about adding this photo to the Millhouses engine shed article. It comes from this website and so I would have to claim fair use. What do you think? JeremyA 20:34, 16 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Looks good, go for it. Captain scarlet 14:54, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Politeness
Um - I really wasn't intending to be impolite when I said "it's highly questionable whether the Burbage Brook is in the Hope Valley; either way, it is a minor river and flows into the Derwent, not the Noe"; I believe this is true. As an edit summary, it is of course brief, but my idea in including details of the other three rivers was to give an outline of the streams which run through the main length of the valley, and the Burbage Brook is a tributary of one of them, not a main constituent of the river. Please assume good faith! Warofdreams talk 18:33, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Eccleshall
Are you 100% sure? What is your source? Does it comment on the incorrect spelling? If not, then I would think that it is likely a misprint in the book. I know that railway companies sometimes did get spellings wrong, but books also often have misprints. In this case I would find it very suprising if the railway company had spelt Eccelsall correctly at the station but not at the neighbouring shed. JeremyA 00:37, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * 100% sure, Eccleshall it was, then Millhouses. The station was Eccleshall (with an h), the Millhouses & Eccleshall. Source is the Portrait of a famour route: the NMR. (I have cited my sources on the article). If have other books that say otherwise i suppose we'll have to look into this inaxectitude, but I'm sure. Regards, Captain scarlet 07:02, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Peter Harvey's book Abbeydale and Millhouses says that the station was Ecclesall Station when it opened, then Mill Houses and Ecclesall and finally Millhouses and Ecclesall. He also shows a photo dating from after 1903, but almost certainly before 1910 that shows the station sign on the platform, and it clearly reads Millhouses and Ecclesall. Peter Fox's book The Midland Line in Sheffield only ever refers to the shed as Millhouses MPD, however he also states that the shed code was 19B when it opened, changing to 41C on 1st Feb 1958.


 * Whenever I have seen Ecclesall spelt with an 'h' before it has been a clear spelling mistake (there is a person at the geograph project who contantly spells it this way). For most place names you get a variety of spellings down the ages before spellings were standardised in the 18th and 19th centuries (most people were illiterate anyway so spelling didn't matter), but for Ecclesall I have never seen it spelt any other way in the historical documents that I have seen. If the shed name was spelt this way it would have been a clear mistake by the railway company--however, I still think that it is just as likely to be a copy-editing error in your book. I would be interested to find out for sure though. There must be some old timetables around in someone's collection somewhere. My Father-in-Law is an expert on the Scottish railways so I might ask him if he has a contact who could find out.  JeremyA 01:56, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


 * --p.s. This is one of the photos that are in Peter Harvey's book.


 * Dang. You must be right :p someone back in 19godknowswhen, some guy made a typing mistake and it must have propagated. Ecclesall it is ! I'm looking a piccie of the station now and no doubt about it it is written Ecclesall, there are 4 station boards on this picture and there's definitely no h. Cheers for looking into it, Captain scarlet 07:00, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Calais-Ville
You may want to move Calais-Ville and Calais-Fréthun. -- RHaworth 16:46, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I could, but with all due respect, why didn't you do it ? you didn't just go search for wrongly named station articles did you ? Regards, Captain scarlet 17:27, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I would prefer Calais-Ville railway station but I think you might object slightly. I did not go looking for it - it popped up during routine new pages patrolling. -- RHaworth 17:50, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Well thanks for the message then, I wouldn't mind railway station if it were an english station, but it isn't ;) I'll have to add categories since both articles seem to be uncategorised. Captain scarlet 17:56, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
 * As a randomness of Wikipedia I noticed you moved Lille Railway Stations just a while before I editied it, I've demerged both station articles, added actual information to them and added a disambiguation template. I think it's much more appropriate like that, but you were right in lowering the case. Captain scarlet 20:57, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Excuse me but why are you dragging me into what seems to be a private argument with someone else? I really don't care what you name the articles about French railway stations. My only purpose in starting the Calais-Ville one was to provide a link to the Folkestone Harbour article. What you name it is entirely your own affair as far as I'm concerned. Please leave me out of any disputes you may have with others - I have my own disputes to deal with. Hammersfan 22/04/06, 14.35 BST
 * I had and have no wish to drag you in any argument, I was merely replying to RHaworth. I have but respect for your work which is why I kept your previous editgs and updated the Orient Express links concerning Calais. If a conversation begins on one page, I stick to that page rather than pin-ponging onto other user pages, this is why I replied on your page although my message didn't immediately concerned you. Regards Captain scarlet 13:37, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Wikiproject Sheffield
Hi! As we now have five participants I have moved the draft project pages to WikiProject Sheffield, you might want to add this page to your watchlist. Thanks, JeremyA 22:26, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Cheers, I noticed, and you'll notice an edit of mine sneaking in there ... A few seconds before you moved the page. Captain scarlet 22:29, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Caught your correction on my talk page, but...
I didn't really get the meaning of the "It really sinks that low. Oh dear." attached to the edit - you're not angry at me I hope? I am sorry I misspelled your name though. Cheers. T HE P ROMENADER 22:58, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
 * No offence taken. Just saw the error and corrected, If there's anyone I'm angry with, it isn't you. Sorry if it seemed that way. Regards, Captain scarlet 23:03, 29 April 2006 (UTC)


 * No problem at all, it's just that your annotation was rather cryptic without added explanation. I'm relieved. Goodnight : )  T HE P ROMENADER  23:11, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I thought the message was from someone else, your talkpage history says you copied that message from another page which explains my thought. Indeed itr is time for bed, goodnight, Captain scarlet 23:13, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Paris infobox
Here's the message I left on every talkpage containing the 'Large French Cities' infobox: As a result of some discussion over the past weeks, there is an updated template available for perusal in its 'published ' form (filled with data) here - all comments welcome. --  T HE P ROMENADER  07:34, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * This is better in content, but you have pointed oput that it is rather tall. My concerns are regarding the Urban Spread information which seems a bit off topic, I don't see why additional information shouldn't be in the intorduction to the article, and keep strictly Paris information in the box, like strictly remaining on topic.
 * The problem with infoboxes in general is that they prevent images being added to them article in sections at the beginning of articles. That's my main problem. Ths box would do me fine simply by deleting Urban Spread.
 * Cheers, Captain scarlet 08:00, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Concerning Urban Spread, I recon that it should be mentionned in the article, not in the Paris box. BUT be in the Ile-de-France box, if it has one. (thanks to my cup of tea at my desk for this). Captain scarlet 08:04, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey, thanks for the reply. But can you add all that to the Paris talk page to help any discussion there ? : )  T HE P ROMENADER  08:34, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * By the way, I've made a little addition today to the Paris infobox and touched it up a bit - please have a look and leave note of what you think. I can tell you ahead of time that after some consideration I was unable to cut the lower 'Urban spread' section of the infobox - This is the most knee-jerk comprehensible way I could find to express coherently Paris' role as the centre of an agglomeration, in avoiding any pretention that the entire agglomeration is called 'Paris'. In looking at the info lain out thus one will be sure to ask oneself "but why is the commune (city) of Paris much smaller than its urban spread"? This was the whole point - that question is an answer in itself, and the rest is detailed in the text. I hope you understand.  T HE P ROMENADER  18:11, 7 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Sure, I'm cool with that, you've explained yourself coherently. Cheers, Captain scarlet 18:13, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I posted some of the above on the Paris Talk Page as an aid to discussion there - I hope you don't mind. I'm not exactly sure what I'm arguing against there - it seems that I am opposing the idea of blending the Paris agglomeration with its surrounding countryside. Unclear as this may be, I hope this helps. Thanks. T HE P ROMENADER 18:52, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm fine with that as well. I'll be honnest, I can't see us ever being able to have a discussion with the guy, he's completely enclosed in his little world, and whatever the data we have, documentation, websites, images or maps we have to prove our point or bring to a conversation make any difference whatsoever. It's hard... I have a passion and I'm getting nowhere in enjoying myself talking about what I like and what I study. It's almost like the guy has read a leaflet of a hotel reception counter and that becomes the holy truth. Thank goodness I work with friendly people and my other project are advancing admirably. If you have the will to try and convince him, kudos to you and good luck. Regards, Captain scarlet 19:39, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * To things more serious, I'm not really sure what to do about this revert-business. I've left a message on User:Olivier's page about it all (he's an admin), but have yet to get a reply. I would ask that others involved in the infobox consensus also revert Hardouin's abusive reverts, but that to me would seem like a gang war, even if justified. I've asked User:Olivier about it all the same. I'm sure my bringing this up here will show up later as something 'bad' I have done... but whatever. I must be patient, I guess.  T HE P ROMENADER  15:21, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

A little Train gift
You who likes Paris train lines - I made a contribution to the Transilien talk page, but not the article itself - only reference material. Enjoy. T HE P ROMENADER 20:50, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Hiya, I saw your list, and was going to send you a message. The list has got the stations, but they're mostly wrongly named... You know our good friend Hardouin, yeh well he'd be capable of actually writing an article with them names. I am timidly participating at filling in station articles but I do not wish to contribute in that field due to Hardouin's stuborness and random vandalism. As a parenthesis, I will no longer participate in any matter concerning Paris for the same reasons, I have reached the point where my experience of Wikipedia is tarnished by others' behaviour and so lists like these as interesting as they are, must be spot on to avoid any kind of confrontation. Well done though, Captain scarlet 21:00, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't understand - what do you mean by 'wrongly named'? The list is straight from the SNCF section of the RATP site. To tell you the truth I only scanned those articles some time ago and saw there was some sort of conflict over naming conventions - all that seems to be gone today, but some inconsistencies still exist. It all depends on what you are using the names for: if it is for train schedules, the full name of the station is used (GARE DE, etc), if it is for simple reference (itinerary, eg) the rules seem to be looser, and for plans the shortest name possible is used. That about sums it up. I posted the list for 'hyphen use' and not much more than that... actually I'm not even sure who's 'side' I'm supporting in posting that!


 * As for your 'no longer participating' - well, it takes some humility to get down and learn where your doubts are, some objectivity to discern fact from fiction, some ba**s to stick it out long enough to make sure that the facts stick, and endless patience to answer to seemingly endless round-the-bush non-arguments that are founded more on wish than fact. You can't be in a hurry, that's all. The French subjects on English Wiki are relatively 'low-traffic' for now, but once things pick up and the traffic of knowledgeble contributors increases, the 'Paris shennanigans' will be over for good. Things have already improved dramatically over the last months, so here's hoping it continues.


 * As for the personal affrontery: personally I've ceased to be belaboured by the 'who did what and why' of Wiki edits - all that matters to me is what is already on a page, where it comes from (reference and reason), and if it doesn't qualify, how to improve it. Actually, anything with a personal slant should be exposed for what it is - then ignored. Sticking to the facts is how to make life simplest on Wiki.


 * You take care, and cheers. -- T HE P ROMENADER  22:58, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your message mate. I have many other subjects of interests so I'm not fondamentally fussed. I know that I type is a certain degree of quality as the Cergy Saint Christophe station article is featured after just 2 days of proper existance, I am proud, then few hours later the Hardouin-train came... It's just silly. I wish you a good night and hope you enjoy my english tramway articles. Take care, Captain scarlet 23:16, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Template:South Yorkshire - Humberside tramways
Hi! Nice work on the tramway articles. I'm a little confused however as to the logic of having a template grouping South Yorkshire and Humberside tramways--is it just that these are the articles you intend to write, or is there some other reason? Thanks, JeremyA
 * Heyup Jeremy, cheers. South Yorkshire is very often mentioned together, and is a singular coherent area. Also tramway wise, the following area was one big tramway network, so it made sence twice. I couldnt have done Yorkshire and Lincolnshire, but South Yorkshire and Humberside I can, for the above reasons: both political and circonstancial. I hope that's ok for you, It'd be shame to isolate articles that have a common baseline. Cheers, Captain scarlet 16:51, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Future projects: I'd like to have West Yorkshire tramways and Deryshire Tramways. I also hope you like the photo of 510 at Crich, it was stuck int depot, grr.

81.104.165.184
81.104.165.184, who is definitely not a vandal, claims that you placed an erroneous message on his talk page, and that the situation escalated from there. Do you have any objections to me removing the warning notice from his talk page? TheJ a  bb  e  rw  &#664;  ck 17:14, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I have read the message you and the unregistered editor have exchanged and do not agree with the removal of the notice. I politely informed and warned the user not to vandalise talk pages, rearrange article to his/hers accord with reason. I reverted articles to their previous state and tried to obtain sensible explaination from the user. The warning should stay, it is only a warning after all and is only there to remind the user not to continue on the same course. The warning was not implemented as a censure measure but as warning, nothing more, I'm sure you understand. I understand the unregistered user claims to have a lengthy contribution library but as I am no magician I have and will only take into accounts the edits that user made under that specific IP which are less than glorious and aren't really in keeping with the spirit of collaboration I tend to abide by. Regards, Captain scarlet 17:43, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, I added a disclaimer to the top of his talk page. TheJ a  bb  e  rw  &#664;  ck 22:53, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * You kinda did not edit back in the message so you might as well get rid of the disclaimer... Captain scarlet 22:57, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * How about now? TheJ a  bb  e  rw  &#664;  ck 03:01, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks Captain scarlet 09:44, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Cergy Saint-Christophe
Apologies for that list oversight - I had assumed, since the 'name' list came directly from the SNCF division of the RATP website, that it could be counted upon for its precision and consistancy - not so! This is one of a few errors I see now - I had no idea what you were talking about yesterday and I should have looked twice before answering. This error is probably the wemaster's, but still there is no excuse for publishing errors. I have a PDF version of the same IDF plan you cited - perhaps I can extract a list from that - or perhaps there is another source somewhere. The best reliable source is train schedules, but I am not sure if these are available online. I'll have a look later on. Cheers. T HE P ROMENADER 14:31, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
 * No problem, I don't make a habit of standing my gorund without a justification of a kind and I really do not want to argue with you, you're very reasonable and knowledgeable and if possible I like to consult you. There should be PDFs of timetables. Alternatively, I use my photos of the stations I write on or photos I find on tinternet. I have posted a link to a photo of Cergy le Haut on its talk page. The dash situation seems a bit more complicated than it seems. Hardouin likes to put them everywhere, I tend to remove them and only put them where the commune name has them, hence Gare de Cergy Saint-Christophe. I honnestly think it is the best alternative and the most reasonable proposition tha thas the merit of having been thought about. A sorts the problem of not having stations sorted in their letter category.

What do you recon ? Captain scarlet 15:12, 7 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Trust me, I know of what you speak about the "standing your ground" bit when you know for certain that your facts are straight and referenced : ) - But at first I honestly didn't understand by what you meant about 'inaccurate'. I know better now.


 * I wouldn't worry about who does or says what, it's only the verifiable result that counts. As for French station naming conventions: these have changed somewhat through the years (decades) but it's most important to keep 'actual' and use existing conventions - and because these do vary somewhat from publication to publication (web and print) one must look at all and take the most dominant one. In this case, sir, I can assure you that it's "Name Saint-Name" on most every modern map and station sign I've seen. Consider this set and proven - and since I've done the reasearch and know the facts, you can count on my support should you need it. I'm fully aware of the "dash conflict" now (found it while looking for "Cergy" again), but there is no reasonable reason that this issue should go any further - you know where the facts are, so just post the reference. The most difficult thing in all that will be all those pages moved/to move...


 * But even before you go there you should decide what the final namespace will be - I'm sorry but I do agree that "Gare de" in front of every name is a bit unwieldly. Cergy (Gare) is not very pretty either but it is easier to find and attribute categories to - no need for the 'pipe trick'. One last thing to consider is future disambiguation - what happens when other Francophone countries start listing their stations? In this light "Saint-Michel (Gare)" probably already conflicts with another such namespace, but most don't consider this to be an issue - yet. But, for the sake of consideration: "Saint-Michel (Gare SNCF)" and "Saint Michel (Métro)" and "Saint-Michel, Gare (Maurienne)"? In light of the latter, putting "Gare de" in front of every name is beginning to look attractive... "Gare St-Michel (Maurienne)" and "Saint-Michel (métro)" - there are many eventualities (subject clarity and name conflict) to consider! For the "Paris streets" project I used "rue Zidane, Paris" because a) there are many streets in many cities with the same name and b) I was advised not to use brackets in the namespace. Most logically for easy reference and sorting purposes I should have used "Zidane, rue, Paris" but this is not pretty at all... which again leads back to putting "Gare de" in front of every name because, if I concluded in using "rue de" or "rue" as a prefix... but if you are to use "gare" you have to make darn sure that the station is officially called a "gare". Complicated. What do mainstream references do for cases like these? I'll have a look at the Encyclopédie Universalis and give it some thought if you like.   T HE P ROMENADER  17:58, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with your points above and I like the way you end up to your conclusion, so much logic found on Wikipedia it's almost scary. I did indeed not name my french railway station articles the way I have for the simple pleasure of it. I think the case of gare v arrêt is kind of unimportant as the nomanclature differs from operator to operator, somw ill say arrêt as there is no station building, others because that's the way it's always been, others, such as the Metropolitain used station. what I believe backs my case of putting gare de in front of station names is that it avoids the possibility of having a disambiguation and is part of the parlé. If were a tourist looking for a station, I'd try two things, and two things only: Gare de machinchouette and Machinchouette station. The effort of putting the suffix (SNCF) or (RER) seems very irrational and misguided and even off the point. Stations such as Saint-Germain-en-Laye existed before the SNCF and the RER so as I created both articles (I will not take into account the half line of stub comment) I thought of the building+platforms' history into account, it makes sence then as there is a 1930 photo of St Germain station, which clearly goes against naming it SNCF or RER. All is present in the article and it is properly explained so I don't understand what the problem is. I appreciate your input, don'thesitate to contact me. for Christ's sake one day after I finished the article it was featured... Not a year of stub made it stand out, that's what really bugs me off: tokenism.Captain scarlet 18:09, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Paris Streets Infobox
...I saw your comment on the 'place de la Bastille' article - and chopped 50px off the infobox's width. If I'm going to do it for Paris, better to do it for my own work. By the way, it would be great if you added a street or two - feel free to do so! Goodnight, for tonight. -- T HE P ROMENADER  00:09, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Hehehe, I thought that I didn't do too bad, but yeh, much better without a table off course. I have done a street, look for it on my user's page ;) Taketh Careth. Captain scarlet 06:35, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Youeth tooth : )  T HE P ROMENADER  07:10, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

hi i was browsing the web, and i found that you once modelled tinsley yard. do you still have it or have any photos. thanks Ledgero2 14:20, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Tinsley Yard
hi i was browsing the web, and i found that you once modelled tinsley yard. do you still have it or have any photos. thanks Ledgero2 14:20, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi there. I do indeed have photos of Tinsley Yard and modelled it entirely thanks to a complete trackplan, all of which are viewable on vlaki.com, you'll find a photo section, then England, then an interactive map of South Yorkshire. Enjoy, Captain scarlet 14:38, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


 * thats ace thanks. what became of your model railway then? Ledgero2


 * Nothing, it's still there on my hard drive, i drive on it now and again. Have you downloaded the layout or something ? I'm happy to say that I have had nothing but good reviews of my layout and at one time was the most comprehensive layout around. Sheffield had that many railways ! Captain scarlet 17:11, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


 * no i was just wondering what program it was on, and what it looked like thats all Ledgero2 17:48, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The simulator is Trainz, and here is a screenshot:

400px|thumb|center|Grimesthorpe junction and yard.
 * There are more screenshots on the Sheffield layout's project page. Regards, 21:12, 15 May 2006 (UTC)~

Here is a screenshot of Tinsley Yard in made for the game: piccie Captain scarlet 21:14, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

wow. thats brill thanks Ledgero2 18:02, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

User:Hardouin
I hoped this day wouldn't come but I've finally had to lodge a complaint against User:Hardouin - who just reverted that infobox we had been working on since weeks, and that on every page it was included. Not only that, but reverted a second time.

My complaint against Hardouin is on the same page as the complaint Hardouin lodged against you. I'm amazed at the lows this user will go to to 'insinuatingly' defame or dissuade other contributors - rather than engage in any coherent discussion. If you would like to put in a word, please do. T HE P ROMENADER 21:24, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


 * As you saw from my defense (there was nothing to defend myself against), it was going to end at that... I'll join in but only after thinking of how to formulate this since I have the problem of him with the infobox, the Paris article, station articles, railways in Île de FrancE... Anything he puts his hands on and makes his personnal domain... It will be very nicely laid out my friend. Thanks for the message, take care. Captain scarlet 21:39, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that. All of this is just a big waste of time though, as we're dealing with someone not dealing in reality. I await the day someone knowledgable asks us both: "Cite your sources!" For the "French" section this day may not come too soon - or maybe it will. Until then it's round and round and round - even with consensus! Today was incredible.  T HE P ROMENADER  01:22, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

An award?
Thank you : ) You know, until now I had no idea that anyone other than an admin can attribute awards. Is there a "Tireless talk-page contributor" award out there? If it does, it would be much better suited. But thanks! : )   T HE P ROMENADER  15:14, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Any editor can award a barnstar to anyone. I don't know of a tireless contributor talk page, but since some of us believe that they can behave themselves the way they do and keep wikipedia back when others work that little bit more, then I ifnd it appropriate to thank these members. print it out and were it as a badge, oh yeeeh ! Captain scarlet 17:06, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Paris Reverts
I just left a note on User:Green Giant's talk page about this, and as you are concerned too, here too - I'll try to keep it shorter though ; )

One of the biggest frustrations in the Paris page (and others I'm sure) is the knee-jerk reverts, and the same is the reason for the same page's reams and reams and reams of archives. Constructive discussion tends to be concise and has a definite end and result; discussions after wholesale reverts, on the other hand, tend to be heated and long-winded and amount to little change. Even if one spends time (as I have done) proving that every 'justification' for reverting has no foundation in reference or fact, a revert without justification can always come back - because that is exactly what it is. So, in short, I've just said that all my talk-page filling was a complete waste of time. Perhaps it was.

For any progress to be made on any page, the wholesale reverts reserved for vandalism only must come to an end - but I alone cannot manage this. Perhaps together, with a cleaner editing atmosphere, we can enjoy contributing reference and fact for all those wanting to know of all things Paris. I hope you see my points, and I hope you can help. T HE P ROMENADER 21:35, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I really wanna help, but i don't think I will. I already see Hardouin as a lost cause and I do not wish to contribute to Wikipedia in fields I know he does as I know he will misbehave and he won't be stopped. If I don't see him, then I can enjoy myself learning and sharing about what I love and like. Captain scarlet 21:53, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

PS: I forgot to mention that yesterday's antics have been duly judged and a 24hr ban levied. The admin on the WP:3RR page noted that 'if it is consensus, someone will revert back' - this is true, but should it be me? I left a message with User:Olivier and User:Green Giant earlier today. I should contact User:Gnetwerker too as well as User:Metropolitan - and come to think of it, even User:Stevage who helped the article before. In this case, consensus was not only editing but discussion, suggestion and approval. Perhaps I am making this too complicated. I will reinstate the templates once my 24hrs are up, but in the future I hope that I can count on one of you to maintain the forward movement. This speech should actually be on the Talk:Paris page - I will leave a note there too. Goodnight to you! T HE P ROMENADER 22:05, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Darn - I wrote the above while you were posting. Okay sir, I know it's tiring. Thanks already for your help so far - for sure! At least we got a new infobox out of our work together. T HE P ROMENADER 22:05, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


 * YOU got a 24 hours ban ?? Captain scarlet 22:07, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


 * No, not me. : )  T HE P ROMENADER  22:08, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


 * PS: Everything is back in its proper place. Thanks again for the star - goodnight!  T HE P ROMENADER  23:05, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Doncaster Tramways map
Hi Captain Scarlet. I like your entry on Doncaster Tramways (I'm from Donny myself), but would just like to mention one thing - your map refers to 'Wheatley Hill', but it should be 'Wheatley Hills'. The article text has the name correct. If you could update the map that would be great. Thanks, Chris Sunderland 11:45, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Chris, thanks for your kind comments. Thanks for pointing out my error, which will be rectified tonight when I come back from work... in Donny. Captain scarlet 11:51, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

templating - sorry
I don't want to sound rude etc but i find the instructions (if there are any) on how to create a template too complicated to understand. So how do i? Simply south 14:11, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Or at least can you refer me to the right section?


 * That's fine mate. Myself and other members of the Sheffield project have already thought of creating a template for Supertram. The problem is that it would be incredibly difficult to implement. There currently is a list of all stops on the Supertram article. To fit all the stops would be hard, but not impossible. To create a template or an article you must do a search for the article/template in the search box to the left. In this case you will need to search for Template:Supertram stops. Then once you're on the creating window, type in all the reccurrent information (tram stops) along with a title. To insert the template in an article, use this:.


 * I must insist that I'm not sure that creating an article for each and every Supertram stop is of encycloepedic importance or interest. Meadowhall Interchange exists, and covers both rail and tram services. As a naming scheme I suggest Herdings Park stop, Middlewood stop etc. Good luck. Captain scarlet 16:19, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry. Just to note i wasn't referring to Supertram specifically. I'm not sure how to create a template generally. I'm new to this.


 * If there was a Supertram templaste i would suggest only including important interchanges, city centre stops, Park & Ride, etc. Simply south 16:31, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * How do i get a box to appear round the template, at least? Simply south 07:49, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * There are extensive help and tutorials on how to edit, create, format on Wikipedia (which is similar to standard HTML. You have already participated to the talk concerning stations in Sheffield, you can view the template itself and observe formatting there or view Help:Contents/Editing_Wikipedia. Captain scarlet 08:16, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Award
You deserve it much more than I, dear sir : )  T HE P ROMENADER  09:57, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much ! Captain scarlet 11:26, 23 May 2006 (UTC)