User talk:CarTick/Archive 12

Thanks :)
Thanks a lot for the barnstar! And Happy Onam! :) - The Enforcer Office of the secret service 03:21, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

A complaint
The following is a complaint by an IP about you :

Hello Arun, hope your are well - There has been continuous sub-nationalistic vandalism going on in some pages which I wanted to bring to your notice. It would be great if you could take care of them. Kanyakumari District and Padmanabhapuram are two pages where User:CarTick and an IP have been indulging in parochial edits by removing Malayalam fonts again and again without reason and saying bizarre things like that less than 6% there speaks Malayalam (while in reality almost 50% does so).

An admin, User:Dougweller, had banned a vandal (who was using two different IPs and no user name) for removing Malayalam fonts from some of those pages. I think the same guy has appeared again in the form of the new IP (starting with 99). Also please keep on eye on related pages like Suchindrum, Padmanabhapuram Palace, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.194.229.114 (talk) 14:06, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Is there any truth in this?

arun talk  14:46, 28 August 2010 (UTC)


 * A banned vandal is trying to get you involved in his pet peeves. You can check the talk pages and edit histories of both articles. The IP who has complained to you has a long history of using abusive language, personal attacks and edit warring. When the article was semi protected, he created an account, popped up in my talk page and called me as someone from toilet nadu for which he was immediately block. Right now he is forum shopping and giving you a selective history to get you involved in the conflict. You can see here why we did what we did - Talk:Kanyakumari district. But he ignored our attempts to present him with actual references and instead chose to call us names like whose predecessors ungrateful spineless Tamils shamelessly entered wagging their tails (in edit summaries) --Sodabottle (talk) 15:13, 28 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Ummh..Okay..I'm out of it... arun  talk  15:16, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Tourism in Tamil Nadu
Can you and Soda take a look at this please? It got to a really bad shape over the past two weeks. My inclination is to do a mass revert and strip out that gallery that crept in sometime, so I figured it was better to rope either of you into this task. It's reading like a TTDC brochure now. cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  18:52, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I have started the clean up. I badly want to do a rewrite but dont have time to write lengthy prose for a few weeks (spreading myself thin between here and ta. wiki) Will try to lure Raj6644 into rewriting the article.--Sodabottle (talk) 19:35, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * It had a fairly ok lede until a couple of weeks ago, I think we can go back a few revisions and extract text out and place it back on the article, it should be better than what it was a few minutes ago. I'll try and do something like that this weekend. cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  19:41, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * noted. will look into it this weekend. -- Car Tick  19:48, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Talkback
Pls participate in the discussion and provide your suggestion.Raj 6644(தமிழன்) 10:03, 4 September 2010 (UTC) Raj 6644(தமிழன்) 10:03, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Talkback
Merger Proposal. Pls discuss. Raj 6644(தமிழன்) 07:00, 6 September 2010 (UTC) Raj 6644</b><b style="color:#1589FF;">(தமிழன்)</b> 07:00, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Talkback
Help Pls. <b style="color:#1589FF;">Raj 6644</b><b style="color:#1589FF;">(தமிழன்)</b> 07:47, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

My apologies.. :) Lindamd90 (talk) 03:25, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * That is ok. :) -- Car Tick  10:39, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.178.147.16 (talk) 12:52, 18 September 2010 (UTC) thanks. looks like you are the only reasonable person in wiki. hey der check nadar talk:) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.178.159.21 (talk) 10:19, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

reply
well mclean citations regrading nairs being migrants from north were already there in the section connection with bunts so if you had read the article fully you would not have deleted it.also chamapakal was attributed so don't get it's deletion.btwn may i ask you how polyandry a social custom whose presence among nairs is rather debated should be in the origins section ?. Linguistic ''' Geek 11:05, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * wait wait wait. i will get to the polyandry issue. so u admit that the reference wasnt attributed to those lines i removed. so, do you know what vandalism is? -- Car Tick  11:09, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

well i said borderline vandalism? not precisely vandalism. Linguistic ''' Geek 11:11, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * it is the same. removal of unreferenced and blog-referenced content is not vandalism by any strecth of imagination. read WP:Vandalism, you have to watch what you say. -- Car Tick  11:15, 20 September 2010 (UTC)


 * now, could you pls add the page numbers of McLean's book? -- Car Tick  11:16, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

haven't you read the quote down they appear to have entered from north.btwn i haven't yet recived an explanation on polyandry ? or have i have ?


 * I guess you are talking about reference 42. i dont see a page number there as well. please remember to add page numbers so the claims can be verified. i promise to you i will get to it before we finish the conversation. is easier to deal with one issue at a time. -- Car Tick  11:27, 20 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I take it you dont have the information now and are going to add the page numbers when you can get to them. That is fine. But please be aware unattributable content can be summarily removed from wikipedia. Now about the polyandry, i added the link there only because polyandry is mentioned in the same section. Polyandry among Nairs is a widely covered issue in multiple reliable sources. In fact, i believe the article should contain a small paragraph about it. -- Car Tick  11:52, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

well forgive me for my self appreciation,but i do know the rules very well as well as rather well versed in ethic information.btwn the nair article used to be quite big before it was cut short into smaller articles.they have been linked in see also section including the polyandry thing which ofcourse was a symbol of the independence of nair women as stated by fawcett but it's practice was rather limited only to a few aristocratic clans in tranvancore and the relations were never stable nair women had the right to divorce. Linguistic ''' Geek 12:00, 20 September 2010 (UTC)


 * polyandry thing was not linked until i added it. As a matter of fact, i had added it long time ago and someone has removed it until i added it again. it is a very interesting social behaviour among Nairs. all of these can be mentioned. i will add a summary one day when i have more time. -- Car Tick  12:09, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Pending changes/Straw poll on interim usage
Hi. As you recently commented in the straw poll regarding the ongoing usage and trial of Pending changes, this is to notify you that there is an interim straw poll with regard to keeping the tool switched on or switching it off while improvements are worked on and due for release on November 9, 2010. This new poll is only in regard to this issue and sets no precedent for any future usage. Your input on this issue is greatly appreciated. Off2riorob (talk) 23:29, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

hey! please check nadar discussion page.thank u.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.178.165.141 (talk) 09:05, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

a doubt
For all TN assembly constituencies, i feel the lede is inadequate and we need to add a generic line like "X is/was a State assembly constituency in the Indian state of Tamil Nadu". Does AWB make such a task easier? or is it better to add manually?--Sodabottle (talk) 16:30, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * AWB will be very useful only in articles with similar leads. I guess I didnt pay enough attention to keep the lead consistent. As it is, I am doubtful of its usefulnes. But, it could still be useful for all articles with similar leads. the rest needs to be done manulally. sorry. i can try if you are not planning to do it yourself. -- Car Tick  16:37, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * let us both begin. It is a long list :-). I wasn't planning to begin immediately. I started adding crosswiki links with ta wiki and noticed the short lede. Lets go alphabetically so that we dont get into edit conflicts. --Sodabottle (talk) 18:42, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * go ahead. i shouldnt be spending too much on wikipedia anyway. some POV fighting dragged me in. but i will definitely try to join you. -- Car Tick  18:45, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * we should decide a solid (unchangeable) lead. your idea is a good starter. Pls feel free to modify it. -- Car Tick  03:01, 21 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I have started with the above lede. I am working my way through the "A"s now.--Sodabottle (talk) 04:06, 21 September 2010 (UTC)


 * thought we could add also the additional word to it. -- Car Tick  13:37, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

?
What was with this? You actually gave me an edit conflict, as I was in the middle of giving my two cents on the reliability of a few. Silver seren C 03:15, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I am really sorry. The article is a battleground, i also shouldnt be spending too much time on wikipedia anyway. i raised the questions in the article talk page as well. pls feel free to make your comments if you still havent lost those edits and dont mind. Thank you very much for doing this and asking me. -- Car  Tick  03:18, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

3rr warning
Writing this to both CarTick and Linguisticgeek: you both are approaching 3rr on Nadar (caste), so in case you have never come across our guidelines I'm going to advise you both to read WP:3RR. Continuing the edit war by blindly reverting and snarky edit summaries will not be permitted. Cheers. Syrthiss (talk) 13:07, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

If there is a article about highest subsect Nadan, why not we include an article about the nadar climbers. The way they transformed into prominent business people is something the article must contain. What do you say?? Do you have the Hardgrave book?Lindamd90 (talk) 17:23, 23 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I dont have a strong opinion about that. I do not own Hardgrave book. but i have access to both Hardgrave and Templeman's books in my library. In fact, I have access to a lot of hard-to-find books. I notice u have made a lot of changes to the article and i do not approve of moving the descrimination part elsewhere. According to WP:Lead, the lead should have both both flattering and unflattering information about the subject on the lead roughly in proportion to its coverage in the article. In any case, the article is far from complete and much work needs to be done improving the article instead of spending too much time on the lead. that is a reminder for me as well. -- Car Tick  17:33, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Did I do something wrong? The sentence looked pretty incomplete to me. That's why I shifted it. Yes. The article requires a lot of work. That's why added words like humble and some minor words for compensation.Lindamd90 (talk) 17:47, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * do you have the Hardgrave book? -- Car Tick  17:50, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Nope.Lindamd90 (talk) 17:52, 23 September 2010 (UTC)


 * it looks like both books have a nice linear storyline to Nadar history. if you manage to get hold of both books, would be helpful. -- Car Tick  18:07, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Ok.What happened to the page?Lindamd90 (talk) 16:20, 24 September 2010 (UTC)


 * well, User:Pharaoh of the Wizards had requested page protection. it will help me focus on some seminars i need to prepare on. -- Car Tick  18:21, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Ok
Could you fill out the survey on my talk pg please? It needs more respondents  YellowMonkey  ( new photo poll )  03:58, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
 * ok. :) -- Car Tick  04:00, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Regarding Hindi Imposition page
Hi,

This is regarding the redirection of the page Hindi Imposition (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hindi_imposition&oldid=386682273) to Hindu Nationalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_nationalism). There are 3 reasons given for this redirection:

1)The article has very little content

2)It may not meet Wikipedia's neutral point of view requirements

3)It could easily be included in Hindu Nationalism

While I completely agree with reason (1) and partially agree with reason (2), I totally disagree with (3).

Hindi Imposition in India refers to the initiatives by the central government of India to popularize Hindi language through various measures. Many states in Indian republic have protested against. For eg : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Hindi_agitations_of_Tamil_Nadu

Hindu nationalism refers to social and political initiatives to define a Nationhood based on spiritual and cultural aspects of the Indian sub-continent.

Hindi Imposition and Hindu Nationalism are totally different topics. Hence I would strongly suggest to delete the redirect and the original page and request the authors to compose the article more systematically.

regards

skbhat--Skbhat (talk) 14:55, 25 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for referring to Anti-Hindi agitations of Tamil Nadu. Please take your concern to Redirects for discussion. Please let me know if u need help. -- Car Tick  16:38, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I need help. The page is protected, hence I am not able to add the tags to nominate it for discussion. --Skbhat (talk) 20:03, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
 * pls ask the administrator who locked it. i dont have the power too. sorry. -- Car Tick  20:17, 25 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah Why don't you read the AHA article CarTick . you might learn something about anti hindi agitations ;-)--Sodabottle (talk) 06:02, 27 September 2010 (UTC)


 * exactly, isnt it funny. :) -- Car Tick  14:55, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Atheism in Tamilnadu
I would like to include the following line in the Religion section of the Tamilnadu wiki page.

There is a vigorous atheist movement in the state. In fact, as of Oct 2010 the state is ruled ( List of atheists (politics and law) ) by a progressive atheist party Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam aka DMK.

I have cited a wikipedia article that lists the current chief minister as atheist, which I believe is a valid reference source.

Please undo your change and include my edit.

Senthiledits (talk) 05:48, 27 September 2010 (UTC)


 * 1) you cannot cite wikipedia in wikipedia 2) karunanidhi being an atheist doesn't mean there is a "vigorous atheist" movement in the state. All his children are openly theist. DMK does not state atheism in its official policies. The only party that does so is DK and it has a very small presence in Tamil Nadu 3) If you are making an assertion support it from reliable sources.


 * The atheist movement lost its sheen with the "ondre kulam oruvanae thevan" shift of Anna in early 1950s. Began with the "pillayarayum odaikka maattom, pillayarukku thengayum odaikka maattom" stance in 1953. It got diluted by successive parties and now there is very few overt instances of atheism. In short Karunanidhi != Tamil Nadu.--Sodabottle (talk) 06:00, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

In that case I would like to update the line with the following line under the religion section,

The state is ruled by an atheist Chief Minister M Karunanidhi.

Also, there are no sources for the claim that 88% of the population is Hindu. What are appropriate sources to get these numbers? Do online surveys and polls count?

Senthiledits (talk) 19:43, 27 September 2010 (UTC)


 * The religion stats are from the 2001 census. The reference is there in the Demographics section. I don't think adding MK's atheism is relevant to the religion section. It is relevant in his article, but here it might be WP:UNDUE. Maybe in countries like America, an atheist being elected head of government is significant, but in India its not a big deal. What we can add is there was a fairly popular atheist movement in the 1940s and it has lost support since. Lets see what Cartick thinks.--Sodabottle (talk) 20:46, 27 September 2010 (UTC)


 * agree with Soda. WP:Undue is the correct reason. I do understand what Senthil is saying and wish the atheist movement had a more lasting impact. -- Car Tick  21:27, 27 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok. I will go ahead and add the following line to the Religion section "There was a fairly popular atheist movement in the 1940s that has lost support since." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Senthiledits (talk • contribs) 05:32, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * remove the word "fairly" it comes under weasel words. the rest sounds fine. --Sodabottle (talk) 06:00, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Help - Using ta.wiki Images in en.wiki
Hi Cartick, Can you help me in using ta.wiki Images in en.Wiki. I want to use ta:படிமம்:Tanjai1000.jpg, ta:படிமம்:Tanjai_stamp.jpg, & ta:படிமம்:Rajarajancoin.jpg Images in en.wiki. Pls help me. <b style="color:#1589FF;">Raj 6644</b><b style="color:#1589FF;">(தமிழன்)</b> 11:05, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Ed Schultz
All edits were entirely true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.175.111.205 (talk) 21:19, 5 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Feel free to remove the part about Schultz being an enemy of the state. Arzel (talk) 00:31, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Reason for undoing my revision.
Happened to notice that you just undid my revision in the Chennai city wiki page (The one about chennai being a gamma+ world city). Don't you think we should be mentioning that in our city's page? 59.165.163.25 (talk) 04:27, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
 * we can not litter the article with a collection of indescriminate information. if we dont define a threshold for inclusion, the article will soon become useless for readers looking for noteworthy information. I reverted your addition mainly because the notability of the organisation and the appropriateness of the methodolgy used by them still need to be universally accepted. -- Car Tick  13:20, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Győr
Since Győr is by law the capital city of Western Transdanubia Region, which is basically northwest Hungary, it goes without question that it is the most important city. If we consider size, population, legal and administrative position, etc. Perhaps not an authoritative source, but I am sorry have no time to chase sources to prove self evident facts, if you want, you can change it back, I am not going to start a row over this. Thanks.--Csesznekgirl (talk) 11:38, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Ajka
Ajka is not very far from us but I haven't seen the site, but friends who have, say it looks even worse than depicted in the news, the authorities didn't permit filming on the worst sites to prevent people from panicking. --Csesznekgirl (talk) 12:03, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
 * They are channeling some acids to the rivers to neutralize the poison, but some experts say this might cause even more damage in the long run. The death of the fifth person has just been confirmed, who died in the hospital. --Csesznekgirl (talk) 12:10, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

About the Pallar article
In the Pallar article,many reference books and website links are shown. Many of which are written by other caste members and popular Tamil professors. One particular reference is Tamilaga arasiyal(monthly magazine) in Tamilnadu(Link is present in the article). Also many example's from Tamil literature is mentioned.Tamil1988 (talk) 16:06, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you CarTick for the Barnstar. I appreciate it. Shyamsunder (talk) 11:54, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

WP:PROF #1
Current consensus in academics related AFD's is if H-index exceeds 10, the subject meets #1 for WP:PROF. So i guess Arvind Iyer would qualify--Sodabottle (talk) 08:12, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
 * thanks. i think that was a bad decision then to nominate the article. anyway. i honestly think it is very low standard. lot of graduate students could qualify. my opinion doesnt count anyway. Thanks for letting me know. -- Car Tick  11:58, 9 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I din't see Xxanthippe dragging the Nair ANI incident to the AFD. That was uncalled for. And whats going on in the Nair article. Looks like a Orkut organised drive by. (someone just compared you to David Duke at the ANI thread!!!). I think you would be the only editor who has been the target of both Nair AND Nadar organised orkut hatefests--Sodabottle (talk) 18:19, 12 October 2010 (UTC)


 * And you have a >10 h-index. whoa. I was under the impression you were a grad student ;-).--Sodabottle (talk) 18:26, 12 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks. i remember that. almost two years ago. it will be nice if we could find a link to the orkut canvassing. i dont have account there. i noticed the comparison at ANI. oh, well.
 * regarding h-index, i will be reaching 10 soon. honestly, the major weight of my h-index comes from my publications (which are well cited) in PhD. I have also seen graduate students more productive than me. That is exactly why i still have difficulty coming to terms with this "notability". -- Car Tick  18:59, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

October 2010
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war&#32; according to the reverts you have made on Nair. Users who edit disruptively or refuse to collaborate with others may be blocked if they continue. In particular the three-revert rule states that making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period is almost always grounds for an immediate block. If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the talk page to discuss controversial changes. Work towards wording and content that gains consensus among editors. If unsuccessful then do not edit war even if you believe you are right. Post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If edit warring continues, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. <b style="color:#000">TFOW</b><b style="color:#F00">R</b> 15:27, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: More than three reverts constitute edit warring and there is little need to template, and it is definitely not polite, to template a regular editor after two reverts. --RegentsPark (talk) 15:56, 9 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks RP for your support. it is funny it happened immediately after my comments. technically speaking, I havent made more than two reverts. 1 and 2 are the reverts i did today. I hope you had the time to read about what the reverting was about.


 * I am up against, , , , , , , ,  and  who have no edits outside Kshatriya and Nair articles. The issue being whether a link to Polyandry among Nairs is needed in Nair article.


 * your decision to treat me in equal footing with all these WP:SPAs is quite remarkable and i am quite confident all our administrators will make sure wikipedia will only retain the agenda-driven single purpose accounts.


 * I had started a thread at ANI after my second revert and will appreciate an informed opinion. -- Car Tick  16:11, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

ok, i ll do it.original research.dats wat i dont understand.everythin in darticle is from the hardgrave book(to be precise exactly the sentences from the book).n i still hav a loooot to write.y r dey not respondin.thanks for ur advice —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mayan302 (talk • contribs) 16:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

nice n clear dude.ill change the sentences.no probs.but the line which states dat the nadars are predominant in korkai is not mine.its from rajani kothari's book —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mayan302 (talk • contribs) 18:59, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

and also dude do u know of any web sites(preferably India)where i can buy d dennis templeman book.please let me know if u do.thank u —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mayan302 (talk • contribs) 19:07, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

thanks dude.will ask himMayan302 (talk) 20:43, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

தமிழ் விக்கிப்பீடியா
This is the poster we have created for "operation lure enwiki editors" :-). what do you think?--Sodabottle (talk) 17:38, 19 October 2010 (UTC)


 * great idea and looks good. love the picture. even if 5% success, still worth it. guess i will also throw the invite if i notice such edits. -- Car Tick  17:46, 19 October 2010 (UTC)


 * :-) The picture is great isn't it. the white and khaki uniform reminds me of my own school days.--Sodabottle (talk) 18:34, 19 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Looks good. Now if only the typing tools could also translate, I'd sign up! --RegentsPark (talk) 18:04, 19 October 2010 (UTC)


 * RP, Microsoft has just introduced a opensource machine translation mediawiki extension for indic languages called wikibhasha. But machine translation from English to indic languages is still problematic (we are wrestling with a google toolkit based translation project in Ta wiki for the past one year). lets hope that machine translations get better in the future.--Sodabottle (talk) 18:34, 19 October 2010 (UTC)


 * i doubt they ever will. -- Car Tick  18:36, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Rs. 895 excluding.got it frm here Mayan302 (talk) 11:31, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Block
Please discuss the specific questions raised, what do your comments have to do with them? Yogesh Khandke (talk) 14:27, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Lines from the nadar article
dude i think this line should be removed or modified. "The caste system collapsed in the 20th Century in Southern India, "a factor that undergirds many of the other reasons that the south has prospered ...."[5] "'The breakdown of the caste hierarchy has broken the traditional links between caste and profession.

This article was remodified look at the end of page1. caste still exists..Mayan302 (talk) 08:28, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I notice u have included the breast cloth controversy in Travancore. very good. appreciate that. u could provide link to these main articles from the top of the relevant sections using the
 * With regard to your question, I believe it was added by User Bearian and I believe he used the NY times article Business Class Rises in Ashes of Caste System. Now i see what you mean that caste system hasnt broken down yet as people still identify themselves with a caste and marry within. what the article implies is that the professional and social heirarchy has largely if not completely disappeared. This has led people with potential from all castes to pursue and prosper by choosing any profession they may wish. To put things in perspective, if caste system in its entirety still existed, a lot of the wikipedians wouldnt be around. Internet browsing may have been the privilege of laregely "upper class" Indians. wouldnt say the descrimination is entirely gone. Dalits in India are still suffering and Chettipulam Dalits to embrace Buddhism is an example. --CarTick (talk) 13:27, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

s the dalits are still discriminated.especially in my native place(Tiruchendhur.s,dude.i included it.its imporant dude.even tamil nadars know abt it.but i hav cut short it bcoz the article is already very big n i still have a lot to write.the main ucr needs to b improved.the nadar mahajana saghm ll be quite big.its the most important part in the article;the major reason behind the success of the nadars.i am also almost thru wid Temple Entry Movement also.the template wat is it.dont get it.links to watMayan302 (talk) 15:46, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I did it for u. you can also use "Main" instead of "see also"--CarTick (talk) 15:56, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

got itMayan302 (talk) 15:57, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I have one more suggestion. it is great the article uses high quality source like Robert Hardgrave's book. but it is good to use multiple such sources. A simple way to do this is look for references in google books that support the current text and keep adding them. --CarTick (talk) 16:02, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

hmm.as far as i know all the books regardin(except ancient Edgar n books based on edgar)the nadar history is actually based on hardgrave.even dennis templeman.i tried searchin.but dennis templeman is the only alternative for hardgrave n i cant buy his book for the time being.his book speaks a lot abt the nadars of the 20thcentury.all the other books jus quotes lines from hardgave.Mayan302 (talk) 16:10, 24 October 2010 (UTC)


 * i think u r right for the most part. but nothing wrong in looking out. --CarTick (talk) 16:13, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

hey be my guest dude.:)k will do. i will buy the dennis templeman. after all i should expand the nadars of 20thcentury part.Mayan302 (talk) 16:16, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

and more thing dude.if u can find a pic of nadar climber.it ll be useful.i ve also asked the local nadar sagham.Mayan302 (talk) 16:19, 24 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I dont have any images. but again a reminder to you. Wikipedia treats copyright issues very seriously. Photographs are the properties of the person who took the photo. We can not take a picture of somebody else's photo or scan it and claim that we have the copyright to it. Photos enter the public domain in India (that is free for anyone to use) 60 years after they were taken. But since, wikipedia servers are located in USA, the photographs need to be in public domain not only in India but also in USA if it needs to be freely used in wikipedia. For a photograph to be in public domain in USA, either it should have been taken before 1923 or entered the public domain in India before 1996. That means if a photograph was taken before 1936 in India, you could safely say it is in public domain in India and USA.
 * In summary, two important things when you upload photos 1) you should have taken the photo yourself (you have the copyright to it) 2) you have to demonstrate by reliable references that it was taken before 1936. --CarTick (talk) 16:39, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

will do.these pics r more than 100yrs old.kMayan302 (talk) 16:46, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

the nadars were higher than the viswakarmas(kammalars), Amabattans(washerman), and they were not slaves like the untouchables.And the Nadans actually had the power to buy untouchable slaves. And they were also allowed to enter the agarakalam(brahmin territories) ulike the untouchables in regions where they were actually discriminated. in tiruchendhur they were the most dominant caste regardless of their poor status. 1.page 26 2. . I can also provide with more refs.i wont revert the edit unless u say so.the nadars had many more privileges than the untouchables.their association with toddy made them unacceptable to enter temples.dats it.but they had the freedom to do trade own toddy shops etc.dats another reason y dey were successful.u think am tryin to fool u o somethin.:) i am here to write facts so dat dis page wont be disturbed again by people against this caste.no offence.Mayan302 (talk) 04:16, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

jus above the untouchables means jus above.the maravars were jus above the nadars.jus above.there were no caste between the maravars n nadars.but there were 2 or more castes below the nadars n above the untouchables.jus tryin to be specific.even the maravars r regarded as a caste jus above the untouchables(google it).but dat doesnt mean dey r jus above the untouchables.Mayan302 (talk) 04:22, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * "much" is a weasel word. it is ambiguous and misleading. Please be specific. i am especially worried because you show a lot of passion about the subject. i dont know why i even bother with these caste articles. --CarTick (talk) 04:34, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

passion.ofcourse.i can only contribute somethin i know.is dat wikipedia enough for u.u r a good neutral editor cartick.but sometimes u r not patient.:)wen i said that this article was modified.i really meant it. it includes a section now,correction oct11,2010.look for a subheadin Correction below the 1st page of the article.wat do u want me to write dude.the nadars were lower than other middle castes but higher than the kammalas,Ambattans,Meenavars,Pariahs,Pallars,Chakiliars,Kuravars. i m still missin some castes,dude.hey iam not serious o somethin.k.jus tryin to make u understand.the castes higher than the nadars r maravars,naidus&reddiar,Vellalar and then Brahmins.this is the ancient hirararchy dude.Mayan302 (talk) 04:46, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

k, i ll leave the article alone for the time bein.have work now.nice find.cya —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mayan302 (talk • contribs) 04:48, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

no offence.u dont have to help d article if u dont want to.i asked u to help coz u said u were interested to..Mayan302 (talk) 11:29, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * thanks, i will see what i can do. --CarTick (talk) 12:16, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

legislature of Tamil Nadu
Now that both council and assembly have articles on their own, what to do with Legislature of Tamil Nadu. Currently i have made it as a redirect to assembly. I have a short five sentence article in mind. Any ideas?--Sodabottle (talk) 14:36, 28 October 2010 (UTC)


 * you can write a few sentences and use it as a dab page. guess that is what u meant. --CarTick (talk) 18:57, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Electoral symbols
FYA <b style="color:orange;">Wiki San Roze</b><i style="color:green;">†αLҝ</i> 07:46, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

FYA (Since you are here more often): For future references or in case this issue comes up again. Decisions might change anyways… :D  --<b style="color:orange;">Wiki San Roze</b><i style="color:green;">†αLҝ</i> 15:32, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for letting me know. :)--CarTick (talk) 15:38, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Sigh, all these pics were removed from the stub templates etc, they need to be readded! Maybe I shouldn't have come back, then I'd not have noticed! &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  16:44, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * welcome back after a short break. :) --CarTick (talk) 19:37, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

dude r der any tags like site under construction o somethin. i ll be addin the contents of my draft to the main article tomorrow n my article far frm complete.also hav a helluva work.dats y..Mayan302 (talk) 12:24, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Keyan20
Hi CarTick. Thanks for your advise and yes I am seriously got mad on how badly one can get affected because of others stupid act without realiazing on what basis it has been done. I am doing things for betterment and others take it wrongly. Sometimes they use their powers, which is very very bad. Yes let me stop for a while as you said. But seriously CarTick you know there are so many articles that are all missing very very important contents and facts. If you add those, Simply they say - you violate and stop it. Wikipedia is very very onesided on many articles I have seen. Based on fame, money, power, etc., those articles are differing and not equally treated.

Ungal Vettu Pillai (talk) 00:52, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi CarTick. I hope you get me. I want to ask you regarding the upload of a image where it has no copyright claim. So it is under free usage or public domain to use in wikipedia. Please dont see me as a fan motivated guy. But see the matter in discussion.

Just see these: http://www.tamilcinema.com/CINENEWS/GALLERY/Movies2010/ilayaraja/photosxml.aspx?photo=01 I want to use this image. There is no single copyright claim here. It denotes that this image is for public domain free use. Thats the reason there is no claim on website page. So it is proper to upload it. Please explain me clearly and more detail. I am watching you, so reply here itself.

Ungal Vettu Pillai (talk) 16:26, 23 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Keyan, when there is no clear claim of copyright, the default assumption is that someone has copyright to it. we need clear evidence that it is in public domain. alternatively, you can contact the website and ask them to upload the image themselves. --CarTick (talk) 16:50, 23 November 2010 (UTC)


 * If there is no copyright status on a picture, it does not mean it is in public domain. It means exactly the opposite - it is copyrighted until the copyright holder comes along and says what the reuse status is. It is copyright violation to upload any picture which does not have copyright status. Under only two conditions does a image enter public domain - 1) copyright expires in the country of publication (in india it is 60 years after first publication) 2) The copyright holder explicitly and clearly releases it into public domain (in that case you need a mail from the holder to the wikimedia otrs team saying so).--Sodabottle (talk) 17:19, 23 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks to both of you guys.

Ungal Vettu Pillai (talk) 03:07, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Hello
I have no issues with what you are doing regarding sticking up for your friend him based on what you know. I respect what you are doing with India related articles. There are very few editors who do that. Keep up the good work. What you don’t know about him is only gained by some of my long interactions with him. I was advised to take him to Arbcom in the past but with a family, business to run and real work to do, I don’t have the time. But I believe in Karma, if you keep doing something wrong you will eventually called to answer for it. I knew this day will come. I don’t believe in revenge either but this rfc alone is done enough to let him know how badly he is received in the wider community although he may have some India centric hardcore supporters. If I were you, I will be fair and look at the all the evidence and judge accordingly.

This is a volunteer effort to disseminate knowledge, it is important to treat individuals with kindness, empathy and understanding and help them to see the light at the end of the day. I don’t mind a sense of firmness in dealing with open vandals but it has to be per process. You had asked a pointed question in the RFC knowing fully well that I can’t answer it. I assume you didn’t mean it but I am willing to support the Arbcom process, if that it is what it takes. Kanatonian (talk) 21:19, 26 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I did not mean to put you on the spot, only intended to understand the issue. i absolutley understand if you are not willing to share all the information in public as it appears to be related to real life identity. Thanks for the kind words. --CarTick (talk) 21:28, 26 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I provided the diff. Kanatonian (talk) 21:29, 26 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks. --CarTick (talk) 21:31, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Indian roads
Hi,

Please see the message at WikiProject Indian roads subject "Madhya Pradesh State Highway Shields" and please mark your comments --naveenpf (talk) 03:35, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Problems with India articles
It was nice to see your response - the reason I did not pursue the conversation further there is because the best response to such baits is not to respond at all. Zuggernaut (talk) 17:46, 25 November 2010 (UTC)


 * actually their frustration is understandable. Dbachmann alone has been involved in god knows how many fracas with the Indian/Hindu nationalist lunatic fringe. After five years of dealing with them no wonder YM, Dab and others have run out of AGF. Its actually sad to see those guys giving up on India articles altogether. --Sodabottle (talk) 18:01, 25 November 2010 (UTC)


 * WP:AGF makes sense only if you never give up assuming good faith. Otherwise you will miss the one good editor who comes after a 100,000 "bad" ones. Problems with India articles will not go away unless we have more and assertive editors. The only way that can happen is to "convert" the Hindu nationalist types in to policy-abiding ones. SpacemanSpiff's and YM's methods certainly filter out 100s of vandals but they also miss the opportunity to attract potentially good ones. Zuggernaut (talk) 18:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I have a lot of respect for Dbachmann and i acknowledge and appreciate his contributions to India-related articles. I sincerely hope he and others will continue to stick around. I agree with Zuggernaut here partially. "Perspectives", "Points of view" are foreign terms to many of the Indian wikipedians to begin with. YellowMonkey is largely correct in his assessment that many of the Indian wikipedians come from the socalled "upper castes". I have overheard an Indian father telling his daughter that meat is only consumed by "stone age" people during a dinner of some sort in an attempt to discourage his daughter from eating chicken (i am not kidding). Our family, community and friends constantly tell us that we are the best, our country is the great, our caste is the highest, Indian cuisine is the tastiest and healthiest, our culture is the most moral, and what and everything we do is the correct. When these kids grow up and end up in wikipedia, it takes a lot more than reasoning to impress upon them that the world is much different than how they have been taught all along to be.


 * NPOV and copyright are some of the "harder" policies for an average wikipedian to wrap their mind around. I wonder, some wikipedians even think images are in "public domain" if they are "publicly" in a website. These are the "naive" ones who can often be reasoned with, but one needs to first understand what is that exactly that they dont understand which makes them behave the way they do.


 * But, a large number of nationalists and casteists are really "hard core" and I am not even sure if they are ever reformable. i am one of those who believes that it is still worth trying. agree with you that if they can be "converted" to "reasonable" wikipedians by some mechanism, that will be a great help for Indian wikipedia. --CarTick (talk) 20:13, 25 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Bang on Cartick. While exceptionalism as a trait is not confined to India, the inability to overcome inbred bias seems to be more of a problem in Indian wikipedians. Hardcore casteists spoil it for everyone. Once you see a few of them in action, it is very very difficult to assume good faith with anyone adding anything positive to caste articles. --Sodabottle (talk) 04:21, 26 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Honestly, this is not just an unique Indian "behaviour". just the extent of intensity varies. --CarTick (talk) 21:26, 28 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree. I've seen worse behavior at British Empire. What make it even worse is that while the so-called Indian nationalist POV editor will act by himself, make a few bad edits and then move on, people from other geographies, such as at British Empire, act in a more organized fashion and launch organized attacks on forums making it impossible to have Wikipedia function in a decent way. Zuggernaut (talk) 18:08, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Your help is solicited :-)
Can you take a look at Talk:Kongunadu Munnetra Peravai. I believe we have a party faithful doing some airbrushing. (But he is polite and follows policy). As i have a personal dislike of the party in question, i don't want to push my side beyond a certain point. Would like your thoughts on this.--Sodabottle (talk) 06:09, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Tag bombing Battle of Colachel
Please do not do this again. That constitutes tag bombing, and it can be seen as an attempt to disrupt Wikipedia. A simple refimprove template would have been better, rather than putting FACT tags after nearly every sentence in the article. Thank you. Reaper Eternal (talk) 03:01, 5 December 2010 (UTC)


 * i guess a better idea would be to remove everything that can not be referenced. almost the whole article is. --CarTick (talk) 03:05, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
 * You could challenge material on the article talk page and remove it if nobody can find any sources for it. A brief Google search turned up no notable sources. Reaper Eternal (talk) 03:10, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
 * thanks for your suggestion and help. --CarTick (talk) 03:12, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

nice find.how did u get it(pic of a climber)? I ll be completin the whole article by tomorrow.Mayan302 (talk) 15:52, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
 * when i was in India last time. i completely forgot. --CarTick (talk) 16:21, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

nice... The pic will look alright after i finish the articleMayan302 (talk) 03:55, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

ya i hav these ideas in mind.thanksMayan302 (talk) 15:25, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Kota tribe
Hello, I had seen you edit, a related Todas article before. I have updated this one, if you have time, can you kindly look into it please. Thanks Kanatonian (talk) 23:39, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
 * very good job. interesting people. pictures will be nice. i will look at it. with such small population combined with endogamy and polyandry, they must be enriched for certain mutations. --CarTick (talk) 01:10, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Interesting people indeed, speaking a language that split from Pre-Tamil days (i.e after the split of Kannada from Kannada-Tamil but long before Malayalam spilt from Tamil), their specialization as smiths and not accepting the servile status but still maintaining seperateness all allude to how the caste system developed in South Asia. I am going to be working on Irulas, Kaikadi and Yerukulas in 2011. Kanatonian (talk) 01:39, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

image copyright
i ve requested the nadar mahajana sagham to send me the certificate regardin retaninasami nadar's pic.hopefully i ll get it by dis weekMayan302 (talk) 11:35, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
 * good. please note what you are doing is the safest way to make sure the image stays undeleted. hope it will all work out. --CarTick (talk) 13:59, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Tamilnad Mercantile Bank Limited


A tag has been placed on Tamilnad Mercantile Bank Limited requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be a clear copyright infringement. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words.

If the external website belongs to you, and you want to allow Wikipedia to use the text — which means allowing other people to modify it — then you must verify that externally by one of the processes explained at Donating copyrighted materials. If you are not the owner of the external website but have permission from that owner, see Requesting copyright permission. You might want to look at Wikipedia's policies and guidelines for more details, or ask a question here.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion, or "db", tag; if no such tag exists, then the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate and adding a hang-on tag is unnecessary), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Fæ (talk) 16:52, 7 January 2011 (UTC)


 * This is the last versionof the article i had any involvement with, not that everything in that version was added by me. what is the point of you templating me? I would recommend you revert to that version and leave the article alone. --CarTick (talk) 16:59, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Online ambassador program
Check this out - Online Ambassadors. I have volunteered and when they asked if i knew someone who can teach newbies patiently, i thought of you :-). --Sodabottle (talk) 19:10, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks :) I have considered this before. it appears that i would need to disclose myself in real. --CarTick (talk) 23:13, 14 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I asked Sage Ross about this and he says, ambassadors can remain anonymous--Sodabottle (talk) 14:12, 15 January 2011 (UTC)


 * that is good. you are correct in your assessment that i like engaging with newcomers and love showing them the ropes. i am trying to think what stops me then from doing something that best suits my interests. may be, it is just that it conflicts with my fundamental propensity not to make even the smallest of commitment from which i gain nothing. this may change if i choose not to be anonymous one day. you might think i am making up excuses considering i told you a different reason in my previous post. please forgive my indecisiveness. --CarTick (talk) 15:16, 15 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Thats ok :-)--Sodabottle (talk) 15:29, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
Cheers! <span style="color:#333; font-weight:bold; font-size:9px;background-color:#CEE1DD; padding: 2px 2px; letter-spacing: 3px;">► Wireless <span style="color:#333; font-weight:bold; font-size:9px;background-color:#CEE1DD; padding: 2px 2px; letter-spacing: 3px;">Keyboard ◄ 22:37, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Tuluva
Any ideas on the dispute at Tuluva? Could you (and other page watchers) weigh in there?--rgpk (comment) 17:06, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I was not aware of this dispute. i will read through. --CarTick (talk) 17:11, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi there
Sorry for not replying right away to your post on my talk page. The truth of the matter is that I know nothing about this particular topic. That people in South India are increasingly labeling themselves Kshatriyas is also news to me. I was also not aware of the 17th century text you mentioned in your post. So, I'm not the one who can add anything cogent to the discussion of the controversy. Sorry again for the tardy reply. Fowler&amp;fowler «Talk»  02:24, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
 * not a problem. i wrote to you impulsively. thanks for responding and welcome back. --CarTick (talk) 03:01, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for reverting sybergod/rt sachin's attack in my talk page. I guess he is a bored teenager :-)--Sodabottle (talk) 04:18, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * you bet. --CarTick (talk) 16:36, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

A.Nesamony
Thanks for pointing-out. References already complied with. Regards,--Kumaripriya (talk) 15:05, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi
What was that for?Yogesh Khandke (talk) 19:54, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * i am sorry i couldnt tell what you were arguing about. if you wanna tell us what you would want to add, modify or delete (like rgpk mentioned)? --CarTick (talk) 20:00, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * (1)Why should editors put up with such a lot of nonsense? (2)The wp:BOLD, edit I made regarding British colony, the present condition is gives it too much importance. (3)Kashmir, the status that Pakistan is the aggressor and has illegally occupied Indian territory.Yogesh Khandke (talk) 20:04, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) take it easy 2) agree with you 3) the other side will tell you exactly the opposite. --CarTick (talk) 20:07, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * (1)I am. (3)There is a Bin Laden side to 9-11, does Wikipedia carry it?Yogesh Khandke (talk) 20:15, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Another fact that remains to be mentioned is that Bharat is also India's official name in English, see the first article hereYogesh Khandke (talk) 20:20, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * please bring the issues up in the article talk page and please stay on topic. please dont take it personally, but i have a hard time understanding your English. may be it is just me. --CarTick (talk) 20:34, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

(od) YK, you probably won't realize this, but CarTick just did you a big favor by closing the discussion. Let's just focus on the article text for a while and not worry about who is saying what and why. --rgpk (comment) 21:14, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed. It is CarTick's closing that is an exemplary application of WP:BOLD.   Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  02:38, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

What's done is done. I added a To do template a couple of editing sessions back. Perhaps Yogesh can add his list of this to bring up to the list. I would like to point out that RegentsPark's closing of other threads has removed some relevant discussions and threads in a way that people opposing Fowler and ChipmunkDavis have had their opinions made invisible. Zuggernaut (talk) 03:43, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Zuggernaut, see my comment on the article talk page about the archiving. Also, and this is just a suggestion, it may be helpful if you viewed this as a collaborative process rather than one of support for or opposition against particular editors. Regards. --rgpk (comment) 14:27, 8 March 2011 (UTC)