User talk:Caroline Camster

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Hello, Caroline Camster, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the New contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type   and your question on this page, and someone will show up shortly to answer. Here are a few good links for newcomers: We hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on talk and vote pages using four tildes, like this: &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126;. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Banj e b oi   00:39, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
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To Parasec,
I am still trying to work out how to send a message here, having just joined today. Sorry if I am doing this wrong, but seeing you are so fast, I cannot take time to practice or the time like all day today to try to find out...

Please do not delete major sections of British History from pages Especially Military Trans-history just because you do not know them.

You can (I assume) send me a message first and ask what is what, and also as you see (or maybe should see?) The pages are still being worked on.

It would be great if you could add to anything, not just blindly delete over half the page.

If you followed the links which I was still adding to, you would have seen that some of these are already in Wikipedia, and that is what this is about.

Also Having Served in the UK forces as a Transsexual (Transsexual and NOT Transgendered which is not at debate, or used anywhere in my write up), and knowing the history of the people (one personally) whose pages I am writing about, it is a bit off for someone in the USA to mix in and do what is commonly called Vandalisum.

Thanks

Caroline Caroline Camster (talk) 17:29, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Hello, Caroline. The issue with the article in question is that all of the individuals you mentioned in your addition are transgendered, not transsexual. There is an oft misunderstood difference; I'm a little confused as to why you're mistaking this difference, if you are who you claim to be. Regardless, those who cross-dress (Dorothy Lawrence, for instance) are not transsexuals, because they never altered their sex (biologically speaking), just their gender (a social construct). Hence, they are not directly relevant to a discussion on the first transsexual persons in the military, as they are of a slightly (albeit importantly) different category. Perhaps you could create a stand-alone article, something along the lines of Transgender and Transsexual members of the British Military, with information about all of these people, and links to their articles (if they already have articles, of course).
 * Whether I am American or British shouldn't matter; this is a Wiki, and anyone can edit anything they choose. To send me a message, you can go to my talk page and post a new thread. However, since we've started the discussion here, I'd prefer to keep it in one location, for readability's sake. Parsecboy (talk) 17:51, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

In "english english" (and not US english?) Transgendered is used more for the term Transvestite, and currently used for cross dressers, transsexuals (even non-op and pre-op) are those that either by history do not have the option of change, or by current medical status (missing their Gatekeeper's approval, or being medically unfit to undergo surgery) cannot have medical intervention. Some because they are simply allergic to external hormones, some because of previous heart attacks and/or bypasses.

So it is not really an issue of Operated is ts, and not operated is TG, in fact the argument goes Sex is between the legs, and Gender between the ears, therefore you cannot change gender (not without major brain surgery) but you can change sex.

The UK do not recognise a "Change of Gender", but do a "Change of Sex" that confirms your percieved Gender, hence the Gender "Recognition" act and Gender Recognition Certificate"

I know many hate the term transsexual Because of the "sex" word in the middle, but in the UK and Europe many hate the term Transgender because it clearly does not apply to TS people.

While I go look for the references to the information I place on the page, maybe I can ask for your Help?

I mistyped the heading for "Petra Henderson", how can I correct it? If I use it correctly spelt the hotlink in Joanne's page does not work, if I use "Petra henderson" as wrongly set, it does.

Can you advise?

Thanks, Caroline


 * Right, my understanding of the word "transgendered" is that it is more closely related to transvestite/cross-dresser than transexual. I would view transsexual as a subset of transgendered. For instance, Eddie Izzard is a transvestite, but not necessarily transgender (he routinely identifies himself as a "male lesbian"), and definitely not transsexual. In any case, this is just my view, and isn't really relevant for Wikipedia.
 * In regards to the Petra henderson article, you're just wanting to capitalize her last name, correct? You can do that via the "move" button at the top of the page. It'll show a screen with a box listing the current title, and one below for the destination. If you'd prefer, I can do it, but you might want to practice it so you're familiar with the procedure. Parsecboy (talk) 18:27, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Petra is sitting here next to me at the moment, laughing her head off, then she was against me starting this in the first place, knowing from others that it is not as easy as HTML website building... We looked at the top of the page and can see no "move" facility, maybe because I only signed up today? or maybe because you need special Moderator rights? or maybe a PC and not as here a Mac? I will take your point, but as said many here on this side of the pond do not like Transgendered as a term, especially for example in the case of Dr James Barry. (surgeon) (1792–1865), He lived from the age of 12 through to his death at age 60 only as a man, to suggest this was not his brain sex and desire, even if modern SRS and Peni* construction was not open to him then, would be an insult to his memory and achievements as a man.

I will change the references in the article to Trans-people, Trans-Men and Trans-Woman/women leaving the unprovable permanency or desire of the long deceased subject open.

In the American Civil war we (Petra wrote a bit in both the Transhistory groups and also in Proud to serve) have a mixture of men who were biologically women dressed as men, some wanting to be man and remaining as men after they left the army and up till their deaths, some only for the duration of the war, or until they were captured, wounded or killed, and some clearly women who simply were crossdressing, to escape poverty, prostitution, to be with their husbands or lovers, or to avenge deaths of such or other family members...

At the top of this page I see a box that has "user page" in it, "Discussion", "Edit This page", "new section,", "History" and "Unwatch"

on the main and edit page I have boxes with the names Article, Discussion, Edit this page, History and unwatch Am I missing a box or feature somewhere, may also be due to a German system?

Petra says if you have time you might like (or not?) to look at some information on the Proud to Serve UK forum,

http://www.proud2serve.net/public/viewforum.php?f=55

including some possibly interesting history?

http://www.proud2serve.net/public/viewtopic.php?t=2184

There are always the ongoing fight is TG as a cover term an insult to Transsexual-People and also Intersexed people, or just a cover term, but as you rightly point out Transvestite in the Eddie Izzard use is fun and funny, and not as in many peoples head's a male prostitute. Also most spanish and Portuguese speaking countries world wide do not have the word transsexual and so refer to TVs and TSs both as Transvestites.

It looks like you will need to do the move thing, neither Petra nor I can work it out.

thanks

Caroline Camster (talk) 19:31, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, that's right; you can't move pages yet, because your account is too new. An account has to be registered for 4 days, and have made at least 10 edits before it becomes "auto-confirmed" and gains additional rights. You can see an explanation here and a list showing all of the user rights levels here. I'll go ahead and move the page for you.
 * I think part of the issue we're having is the murkiness of it all. As you point out, historically, many women cross-dressed simply to escape the social repression of life as a woman in a patriarchal society. Others genuinely were transsexual, but were either unable to undergo surgical procedures, etc. I am by no means an expert on this topic, so I will defer to your judgment. Parsecboy (talk) 21:10, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Hello Nate. This is Petra Henderson -using Caroline's ID-, THANKS for the help getting my name back to normal. I just created my own account -PeH88- on a laptop here and looked to see if I could work out the way to change the capitalization of my name, but apart from being able to make some minor corrections to my named page, I also could not see the move function. Naturally this is clear if the four day restriction applies to us both given that we both joined today, I will need some time to learn how to work Wiki properly and also to dig out all the references that are needed for the page about other T*-soldiers, in particular as the links I had collected over the years are all slowly changing. I think also a correction until these are found may be in order. Will discuss here and take the necessary action. Thanks for your time and patience, and understanding the reaction to the TS =/= TG issue, even in the Groups I run for TS and TG people in both English and German many fights break out over this issue. Eurotransgender, TSDE, TS-Recht, and some Legal and Medical ones. Apart from that I also run several Ham Radio, Army, NAAFI, Royal Signals and WRAC (Women's Royal Army Corps) groups and real life support and reunion groups. It is interesting how much on non-TS or non-Military groups, etc., has similar questions and answers as in them groups, same issues, just different names and viewpoints, So we are approaching midnight -GMT+2hrs- here, so I will say thanks again for the correction, and And also goodnight from me too. goodnight. Petra H. Caroline Camster (talk) 21:40, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Petra, you're welcome for the help with getting your name right. Yes, the four-day restriction applies to both accounts. This is mostly to slow down vandals; there's a particularly persistant one (along with several copy-cats) who loves to move pages to nonsensical names.
 * One other thing I should mention, you should post a note on your user page stating that you are Petra Henderson, and read through Conflict of interest, given that you're contributing to an article about you. I don't think there'll be any problems, but all it takes is one editor to come along and allege some sort of misconduct, and it's a world of headaches. There's absolutely nothing wrong with editing your own biography, but some people will inevitably become angry if they think there's some sort of biased editing going on. To give you an example of what I'm talking about, one of the more recent instances was with User:Bluemarine, who is Matt Sanchez; everything was fine in regards to him editing his own article, until he started to remove things that presented him in a negative light and other types of biased editing. Again, I don't think there'll be any of those kind of problems here, but you can never be too careful, right?
 * If you need any help with anything in the future, you can always ask me, I'll be glad to help in any way that I can. Goodnight to you as well. Regards, Parsecboy (talk) 22:42, 16 July 2008 (UTC)