User talk:Catalan/2008

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XXIV - May 2008
The May 2008 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. SteveCrossinBot (talk) 07:51, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:BredaPanzerI.jpg}
Thank you for uploading Image:BredaPanzerI.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale provided for using this image under "fair use" may not meet the criteria required by Non-free content. This can be corrected by going to the image description page and add or clarify the reason why the image qualifies for fair use. In particular, for each page the image is used on, the image must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Can you please check:
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Awards hereby bestowed upon Jon Catalán for service in the line of fire
Could you help out at Tank with regards to the best reference for electrothermal-chemical technology? Dhatfield (talk) 19:41, 26 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree about the Challenger. There are plans for it to be retrofitted, but I don't think it has been done yet. I was working off data from User:Mzajac, I will edit it today. Again, great job. Dhatfield (talk) 06:41, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Late Roman army
Thank you very much for the articles you downloaded. "Raising units" was especially interesting. Do feel free to make an overall comment on Late Roman army review page. Best wishes EraNavigator (talk) 06:59, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

GA review of HMAS Queenborough
Thank you for reviewing HMAS Queenborough (G70). I have replied to your comments on the review subpage. -- saberwyn 00:54, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXVII (May 2008)
The May 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 00:09, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

John Young (astronaut)
I have reverted your removal of the MILHIST tag on this article because the subject was a Captain in the United States Navy, and hence meets the MILHIST bio requirements. Please look closer before removing these tags on astronauts (the majority of them are military officers). -MBK004 02:46, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The way I see it, his military service contributed indirectly to the notability because he would not have been selected as an astronaut when he was if he was not a military officer. The first non-military astronauts were not selected until many years after he was. Also, those astronauts did not fly as many missions and did not go to the moon (with one exception). Hence, I believe that the notability requirement is fulfilled. -MBK004 15:52, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Ausf A Front.jpg
Thank you for uploading Image:Ausf A Front.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

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Fair use rationale for Image:Lince.jpg
Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:Lince.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia constitutes fair use. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

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Re:Barnstar
I'm glad I could help out on such an interesting pair of articles. Thanks! Leithp 06:39, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Verdeja (tank)
is now a featured artcle. Congratulations, -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 16:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Huzzah! Congratulations, Mac! Skinny87 (talk) 16:19, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

11th Airborne Division
Hey Mac. Nice work on getting that article so far so soon! I was wondering, if you had a few minutes free, you might be able to look over 11th Airborne Division for its peer review? Cheers, Skinny87 (talk) 23:29, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

wow

 * thanks. I'm gonna take Tractable for ACR by the end of the month, and I've got (potentially) two articles I can go for with A-Class in July.  All the best on Leopard 2E's ACR! Cam (Chat) 02:02, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

For You!

 * I do want to nominate it, but FAC is so backlogged and takes so much time, I think I'm better off working on my work list (Operation Tonga is in dire need of work) and nominate it when there's less of a backlog. Skinny87 (talk) 09:50, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Leopard 2E (tank)
Leopard 2E (tank) is currently undergoing a GA Review and is On Hold. Skinny87 (talk) 10:50, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Congratulations! Leopard 2E (tank) is now a GA-Class Article!

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XXV - June 2008
The June 2008 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. SteveBot (owner) 23:48, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Battle of Lissa (1811)
Many thanks for you comments and suggestions on the above article that is now a Featured Article. Your assistance during the review process was much appreciated and helped make the article what it is today.--Jackyd101 (talk) 20:12, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

WP:RSUE
You may be interested in this proposal to revise the text for articles using non-English sources. -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 06:03, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

!España!
Seeing as Spain FINALLY ended their 44-year football-championship drought, THIS CALLS FOR A BEER!!
 * I'll bet. It must have been completely berserk in Madrid last night, I'll assume...Cam (Chat) 16:29, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

re: Impressive!
Thank you very much indeed for the barnstar and, even more so, for the very generous citation that accompanied it :) I much appreciate your kind words. All the best, -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 07:46, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXVIII (June 2008)
The June 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 18:09, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Leopard 2E page
Thanks for what you write. I have no strong feeling about the See Also section. I just put it in as a possible enhancvement. If you think the page is stronger without it, I have no objections to you or anyone removing it. Whatever is best for the page. Keep up the good work. I hope you get the military posting you want. Maybe you will be on the international news one day- driving a Leopard Tank!Enriquecardova (talk) 19:47, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Re Leopard 2E
No problems, I'll take a look as soon as I get the chance (probably tomorrow). All the best, EyeSerene talk 14:36, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Heh. I think it's a standard response there sometimes, but I'll try to find something to do anyway ;) EyeSerene talk 14:41, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Just to let you know, I've got to go away for the weekend, so it's very unlikely I'll get to your article before Monday. I apologise for the delay (if things are urgent, you could try this list). EyeSerene talk 11:48, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, I just went to do the copyedit, and discovered it's unnecessary. Congratulations on your FA! EyeSerene talk 09:37, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Congratulations, Mac! Well deserved, as usual. What's your next FA project to be then? Skinny87 (talk) 17:17, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Late Roman army
Hi. I'm consulting you because you gave me some assistance with this topic not long ago and also because of your constructive review of Roman auxiliaries (you were quite right about the refs, by the way: I had to add about 100!). What I would ask you to do is to read my article Late Roman army through and give me your opinion on whether you think it's A-class.

Wandalstouring recently nominated it for A-class review, but the results of the exercise were disappointing, to say the least. The problem was that we got only one comment, from someone who, as it turned out, knows nothing about Roman history and who only bothered to read the intro and the first few paras. See. After my response, the commentator appointed himself copyeditor (without invitation) and proceeded to edit in a way that obliged me to make factual corrections to virtually every para (see the History of the article). The commentator then suggested the article should be transformed into a kind of sequel to the blood-and-sex TV series Rome (see the Discussion page of the article). So what should have been a serious review of a serious article turned into a farce. After the first couple of sections, I had to request that he stop the copyedit. Someone then closed the review after just 4 days and before anyone else had had a chance to comment.

I don't accept that this process was a remotely valid assessment of the article and intend to renominate it in the near future. But first I would like to build a body of support that can weigh in at the appropriate moment. So do let me have your views. Best wishes EraNavigator (talk) 19:14, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for responding. Actually, I'm sceptical about copyediting in general. It seems a unique feature (and vocabulary) of Wikipedia. I can understand the need to correct and improve the text if the author does not possess native-quality English or clearly lacks the ability (or education) to write in a competent way. But beyond that, I can see no justification for tinkering with an author's style. This actually makes the text more difficult to read as it disrupts the natural flow of the prose. All too often, copyediting seems to be an exercise in searching for alternative words/phrases without any clear reason why those are preferable to the original. In my opinion, if the prose is (1) grammatically correct and idiomatic English, (2) clear (no ambiguities),(3) concise (no unnecessary repetition or verbosity) and (4) relevant to the subject, then it should be left well alone. In any case, prose style is not relevant to A-class. Te guidelines state:


 * "Please note that (unlike an actual featured article) an A-class article is not expected to meet all the criteria for featured article. An objection should indicate a substantive problem with the article. In particular, objections over relatively minor issues of writing style or formatting should be avoided at this stage; a comprehensive, accurate, well-sourced, and decently-written article should qualify for A-class status even if it could use some further copyediting."


 * My interest in getting A-class is the hope that it will make the article lessvulnerable to being messed around (although since anyone can edit it,just like any other article, it's probably a forlorn hope). I look forward to hearing your views. Best wishes PS: es veritat que ets Catalan? La meva abuela era Catalana, de Alghero en Sardenya, on se parla sempre Catala avui. EraNavigator (talk) 05:38, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you very much indeed for your help with and commitment to Tag & Assess 2008. May I please trouble you to comment at the post-drive workshop? Your feedback will help us to improve the next drive. Thanks in advance, -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 10:07, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIX (July 2008)
The July 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 00:44, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Panzer I
I have removed your notice from the Milhist talk page as, jocular or not, it may be interpreted as an attempt to vote-stack. -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 05:31, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh alright, thanks then. JonCatalán (talk) 21:20, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Jon - how about a notice on Land vehicles about the FAC. Since the A-class is closed (well done!) informing people that it is on, so we can swing by and help out. Dhatfield (talk) 21:48, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Late Roman army
Salud. I know you are very busy, but could I remind you that I still haven't heard your views on Late Roman army? Best wishes EraNavigator (talk) 09:20, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi. Thanks for your response. There has been virtually no editing of Late Roman army, although someone is currently attempting a copyedit of the first section (by invitation). Did you find the article interesting? Anyway, I'll inform you when it's resubmitted for review. Si vueles, podemos comunicar en Español, que hablo un poco (y mal). Es un idioma similar a mi lengua natal, el Italiano. Mi familia se transferí a Londres cuando yo tenía 6 años, así que la escuela y la universidad las hice en Inglaterra. Así no me gusta tanto cuando otros vuelen "mejorar" mi estilo literario inglés. Tu eres Español o Americano? Me gustó leer tu artículo sobre el tank (no sé como se dice en Español, en Italiano se dice carro armato) Lince. No sabía que vosotros fabricaste un main battle tank: es una máquina impresionante. So, what do you think of my Spanish (self-taught/picked up on holidays in Spain)? Are there many mistakes? Best wishes EraNavigator (talk) 17:43, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

PS: Si te interesa la historia militar romana, ves también mis artículos Battle of Strasbourg y Roman military confederation. (Escribí también Battle of Navarino, una batalla naval del XIX siglo). Saludos EraNavigator (talk) 08:34, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

TAM
For this article, there are two websites I would suggest are: 1 & 2. i am unsure as to if the first website is reliable, but the second one should be quite reliable. -- Cheers mate! C YCLONIC W HIRLWIND talk 02:14, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, well, if I get hired to the job I want, I will look for sources myself if I can find them. I always want articles to pass if they can! -- Cheers mate! C YCLONIC W HIRLWIND  talk 02:34, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi Jon, Thanks for your kind note on my talk page, and also for focusing in this argentinian tank. I do not remember having seen a book specifically about the "TAM" family in Argentina, and I even didin't know the one you've mentioned (Javier de Mazarrasa's La Familia Acorazada TAM - where can I buy it???). I do have (somewhere in the basement) an old argentinian military magazine of the early 80's with the description of what was envisioned (at that moment) as the "TAM family"; I'll try to make some time to go through my boxes. As for the book Blindados Argentinos, de Uruguay y Paraguay, Ayer y Hoy (author: Ricardo Sigal Fogliani) is probably out of stock as it was edited initially in 1997 (Publisher: EDICIONES AYER Y HOY), I've just found one hit in "google.com.ar" and it was a second-hand in a "marketplace" website (MercadoLibre.com.ar). Not sure how much info it includes about the TAM (as I don't have it handy at this moment, moved home recently), will try to find it in my basement or contact any of my colleagues back in Argentina. Finally, I don't think that the TAM can be compared with the vehicles you've mentioned other than the AMX-30, but this is just my gut feeling. Definitely Chile's Leopard 2 are a much different beast! Kind regards, DPdH (talk) 01:29, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi Jon, I've noticed that you've proceeded with uploading the "new" version of this wikiarticle. I believe it has potential for turning into at least an A-Class article, however I do have some concerns related to potential "loss of info" from the "old" version + I liked the older structure/layout a bit more as it looked more clear to me. Can we have a chat on how to further improve this article's current version? Additionally, possibly during this weekend I'd be able to provide a few additional sources about the TAM family. Thanks & Regards, DPdH (talk) 04:31, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi Jon, thanks for your responses to my comments. I've left in the TAM's article Talk Page some feedback to them. My sources in Argentina are trying to find out additional verifiable (printed) material about the TAM family, although I must admit that not too much has been written (even less as a book or even a monography) other than articles in specialized local magazines and in some newspapers. A very reliable (IMHO) source that I've was able to locate online is Jane's Armour & Artillary, 2004-2005 by Christopher F. Foss (Jane's Information Group; 25 edition, July 2004; ISBN-13: 978-0710626165), in Amazon.com I was able to even browse some sample pages about the TAM and its derivatives. Kind Regards, DPdH (talk) 08:26, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the links, Jon; I did find the first one but was unsure if the store was "serious" enough to send payment info! One of the magazines that I remember was Armas y Geoestrategia (I guess the TAM family was featured on issue #8, circa 1983-4), which is long ago out of print (and out of business!); anoter was "Modelos & Colecciones" (early 80's) but this was more focused on scratchbuilding a TAM/VCTP model (I have both, in my storage, who knows in which box...). I still need to check where you can buy Sigal Fogliani's book, and also to see if there is other printed material avaialble. Cheers, DPdH (talk) 04:02, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Jon, here I share some info from my friend in Argentina:
 * a copy of Sigal Fogliani's book was located in a bookstore but unsure if sells via Internet, will check that;
 * a reasonably good magazine for (local) military news seems to be "Defensa y Seguridad" (see ), it is still being published and the website has news and pics;
 * a bookstore in Buenos Aires specialized in military books is "History Books", one related to naval publications is "Instituto de Publicaciones Navales" (see: ); a (very) large general bookstore (that used to sell/deliver overseas) is "Tematika" (, related to "Yenny/El Ateneo" argentinian bookstore chain, see: ). The "Círculo Militar" (in brief, Argentine Army "officers club") also has a bookstore that might sell online, here is the link to the home page and in the menue you'll find the link under "Editorial Militar".
 * If I know of more shops will let you know. Good luck with your search! Regards, DPdH (talk) 00:50, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Jon, just touching base on the "local sources" thread. Sigal Fogliani's book was sold in that shop, and my friend could not advise any other military specialized bookstores in Bs.Aires. You can try to buy online used copies (if any) at "Mercado Libre" (, kind of argentinian version of EBay), just made a quick search with the author's surname and found 3 hits. Regards, DPdH (talk) 00:32, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism?
Hi Jon, seems that an "unknown editor" is focused on promoting a certain obscure website, which looks interesting but totally self-edited (no sources, books, etc are cited). Can we assume this attitude as "vandalism", and ask the article to be protected by restricting edits to registered users? Regards, DPdH (talk) 00:00, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Turkish Armed Forces
Please do pass them on; would be interested to take a look. Email me at kiwizerothree AT hotmail.com. Cheers Buckshot06(prof) 13:35, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Copy-editing
The easiest way to get a copy-edit is to leave a message on a potential copy-editor's talk page. Have you considered requesting a copy-edit from some of the many capable copy-editors listed at WP:MHL? For instance, AnnaFrance is very good as is Blnguyen. Otherwise, you could try EyeSerene: he does a lot of good Milhist work. Other good copy-editors you could contact include: Regents Park, VolatileChemical, Gosgood, Jamie, RC-0722 and Vishnava. -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 10:50, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

A problem with recently passed A-class article
A major rewrite (up to and include a renaming) has significantly changed the Kiev Expedition (1018) article, which you recently supported for A-class. I've commented on talk, but so far we have a revert war in mainspace and comments would be much appreciated. I belive the rewrite has a potential to significantly improve the article, but currently the article has destabilized. Your comments would be much appreciated at Talk:Boleslaw_I%27s_intervention_in_the_Kievan_succession_crisis,_1018.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 17:24, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your comment. Could you comment again, or help merge the two versions? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 15:23, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Navbox issue
Being discussed at Wikipedia talk:Accessibility; I'm fairly certain that Graham reads Wiki via a screen reader. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 01:27, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Re Panzer IV copyedit
You've caught me at a good time, as I'm in between major projects at the moment, so I'd be happy to take a look. I'll stick comments, questions etc on the article talk page. Best, EyeSerene talk 09:08, 26 August 2008(UTC)


 * Thanks for the vote of confidence Jon!! I think it could do with expanding further re the Western Front (I'm trying to find something on PZ IV losses at the moment), and there's no real mention of Italy yet, but I have to admit I'm really enjoying myself working on this article. You've done a superb job on it, and if you trust me with the co-nomination I'd be happy to, once we're ready. EyeSerene talk 18:21, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Navbox under the infobox
Thanks for the note. Boy, that's an ugly hack.

It might be less clumsy to incorporate a surrounding table into the infobox, then provide the navbox(es) as a parameter to the infobox. Then these meta-templates wouldn't have to clutter the article text. Another project for my long-range list. —Michael Z. 2008-08-30 00:27 z 

Late Roman army
Ola. Late Roman army has been renominated for A-class. Please comment at WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Late Roman army. PS: There are new subsections on Supply Infrastructure and Tactics. Also the illustrations have been improved. Saludos EraNavigator (talk) 22:43, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Late Roman army
Dear Jon, your support is urgently required for this article at WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Late Roman army, which is in the process of being hijacked again by the MoS fanatics. Please add your comment asap before the review closes. Best wishes EraNavigator (talk) 20:43, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Nominations for the Military history WikiProject coordinator election
The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process is starting. We are aiming to elect nine coordinators to serve for the next six months; if you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 (UTC) on September 14! This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 21:42, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXX (August 2008)
The August 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 22:39, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Copyediting for AMX-30E
Hi Jon, I have gone through the AMX-30E article and present to you what changes I would have made (capped). I chose not to implement them directly into the article as you are nominating it for FAC, I would not like to introduce massive disruption which could hurt the article's chances. Hence, it is here for your approval and for you to integrate them per your choosing (images and the table removed for convenience).

{{Hidden|titlestyle = background-color: #ccffcc;|contentstyle = border:1px LightBluesolid; ;|header=Copyedit of AMX-30E. Jappalang (talk) 15:19, 6 September 2008 (UTC)|content=The AMX-30E was a main battle tank, based on the French AMX-30, manufactured by Santa Bárbara Sistemas for the Spanish Army (the suffix E stands for España, Spanish for Spain). First acquired in 1970, the tank was to supplement Spain's fleet of M47 and M48 Patton United States tanks, but also to reduce Spain's reliance on American equipment in its army. Hence, the AMX-30E was locally produced, starting from 1974 and ending in 1983. It was Spain's first mass produced tank and developed the country's industry to the point where the government felt it could produce a tank on its own and open bidding for a future tank in 1985. Various Spainish companies participated in the building of the tank; local operations accounted for 65% of the tank's production process. Santa Bárbara Sistemas was responsible for the final assembly of the tank and in the process, gained an amount of experience that made them confident in handling the production of the Leopard 2E in late 2003. One portion of Spain's AMX-30Es was upgraded through a modernization program. Named the AMX-30EM2, 150 tanks upgraded their components with then state-of-the-art equipment. The other portion underwent a more austere reconstruction program, replacing its transmission while maintaining the existing engine. The 149 reconstructed tanks were designated AMX30-EM1s. Both programs extended the vehicle's lifetime. The AMX-30EM1s were replaced in the late 1990s by the German Leopard 2A4s, and the AMX-30EM2s were replaced by Centauro wheeled anti-tank vehicles in the early 21st century. Although Indonesia and Colombia expressed interest in purchasing several of Spain's AMX-30E tanks, both trade deals fell through.

Background
In 1960, the Spanish tank fleet comprised mainly of American M47 Patton tanks and had begun to accept newer M48 Patton tanks. The M47s were first supplied to the Spanish Army in the mid-1950s as a form of military aid to replace its then fleet of Panzer I, T-26, and Panzer IV tanks. During the Ifni War, the United States banned Spain from using any of the American ordnance given as military aid previously. As a result, Spain looked for alternative equipment that can be freely deployed in the Spanish Sahara. Spain looked towards its European neighbors for a new tank. The Spanish government first approached Krauss-Maffei, the German manufacturer of the Leopard tank, and the company applied for an export license from the German Economics Ministry. The application had to be reviewed by the Bundessicherheitsrat (Federal Security Council) because Spain was not part of NATO at that time. Ultimately, the Council ruled that Krauss-Maffei could export tanks to Spain. The deal was, hwoever, stalled by pressure from United Kingdom's Labour Party on the basis that the Leopard's 105-millimeter (4.13 in) L7 tank gun was British technology. Meanwhile, Spain tested the French AMX-30 between 2 and 10 June 1964. The Leopard 1 and the AMX-30 were derived from a joint German-French common design. For a tank, the AMX-30 had a low silhouette; the height of the tank was 2.28 meters (7.48 ft) compared to the Leopard's 2.6 meters (8.53 ft). In terms of lethality, the AMX-30 sales package included the French Obus G high explosive anti-tank (HEAT) round, which was one of the most advanced projectiles at the time, possessing a unique capability. NATO tanks were using rifled cannons at the time. The rifling spins the shell as it is fire, stabilizing its flight and thus increasing accuracy. HEAT shells, however, become less efficient in penetrating tank armour when the round is spinning. Mounted on ball bearings within an outer casing, the Obus G's shaped charge warhead does not spin as much as its outer casing when the round is fired from the cannon. Hence, the French round is more powerful than the other HEAT rounds used by NATO and gives the AMX-30 an advantage when compared to its compatriots; the Leopard came only with its L7A3, which was capable of penetrating the frontal armor of the Soviet T-55 tank. The German tank, however, boasted thicker armor than the AMX-30 and was listed at a cheaper price. In May 1970 the Spanish government decided to sign a contract with the French company GIAT to start production of the AMX-30. Their decision was not influenced by the capabilities of the French vehicle. The reluctance of the UK to sell their L7 tank-gun, the low cost of the AMX-30, and the willingness of the French to allow Spain to manufacture the tank were factors that led the Spanish to favor the French armored vehicle. The first contract with GIAT, in 1970, sealed the purchase of 19 tanks which were built in France. The first six AMX-30s were delivered by rail to the Spanish border city of Irun, in the Basque Country, and then transferred to Bilbao. Finally, they were shipped by the Spanish Navy, on the transport Almirante Lobo, to El Aaiún in the Spanish Sahara. The tanks, along with the later shipments of the remaining 13 tanks, were assigned to the Spanish Legion's Bakali company deployed in the desert. This unit existed until 1975, when it was disbanded and its tanks transferred to the Uad-Ras Mechanized Infantry Regiment.

Production
On 22 June 1970, the Spanish Ministry of Defense signed an agreement of military cooperation with France. Included in the agreement were plans to acquire around 200 tanks for the Spanish Army in the future; 180 were to be manufactured under license in Spain and 20 were to be manufactured in France. France delivered 19 tanks, which were delivered to the Spanish Legion in the Spanish Sahara. The agreement also laid the foundations for the upcoming tank plant at the industrial polygon of Las Canteras, off the town of Alcalá de Guadaíra. The manufacturing of several parts of the tank were subcontracted to other Spanish companies, including Astilleros Españoles (turret), Boetticher, Duro Felguera and E.N. Bazán. The degree of nationalization of parts varied per batch. The first 20 tanks had 18% of each vehicle manufactured in Spain and the next 40 tanks 40%. The other 120 tanks had 65% of their parts produced in Spain. Starting in 1974, five tanks were produced every month, a schedule that stopped on 25 June 1979. The first five locally produced tanks were delivered to the Uad Ras Mechanized Infantry Regiment on 30 October 1974. The Armored Cavalry Regiment Villaviciosa and the Armored Infantry Regiment Alcázar de Toledo also received 23 and 44 tanks, respectively, to replace their M41 Walker Bulldog light tanks and M48 Patton tanks. On 27 March 1979 the Spanish Army and Santa Bárbara Sistemas signed a contract for the production and delivery of a second batch of AMX-30Es, numbering 100 tanks. The tank's patent was awarded to Spain in 1980, after the 200th AMX-30E was delivered to the Spanish Army. With the patent in its hands, Spain could make minor modifications to the vehicle without approval from GIAT. It could also significantly increase the use of tank parts that were made locally. Production of the second batch lasted between 1979 and 1983. By the time it ended, the Spanish Army was fielding 299 AMX-30Es (280 produced between 1974 and 1983, and 19 delivered from France in 1970) and 4 training vehicles delivered in 1975. Santa Bárbara Sistemas also manufactured 18 Roland España (denominated AMX-30RE) anti-air vehicles and 10 AMX-30D armored recovery vehicles. The average cost per tank, in the first batch, was 45 million pesetas (642,800 dollars). Cost per tank increased during the second batch to 62 million pesetas (885,700 dollars). The AMX-30E entered service with automotive issues, such as problems with its antiquated 5SD-200D transmission. Consequently, as the first production batch was ending, the Spanish Army and Santa Bárbara Sistemas began to study possible solutions to these problems. The main objectives were to increase the power and the reliability of the power pack, improve the tank's firepower and accuracy, and increase the vehicle's ballistic protection and overall survivability. A number of modernization packages were proposed, including a suggestion to mount the AMX-30E's turret to a Leopard 1's chassis. Other options included swapping the existing power pack for a new American diesel engine and transmission, or exchanging it for a new German diesel engine and transmission. More austere options were offered, pairing the existing HS-110 engine with the aforementioned transmissions. A prototype was produced using the Leopard's more modern tracks, and another similar prototype mounted a new 12.7-millimeter (0.5 in.) machine gun for the loader's position. At the time, France's GIAT were modernizing the French Army's AMX-30s to the AMX-30B2 standards and offered to do the same for Spain's AMX-30Es.

Modernization
Ultimately, Spain opted for a mixed solution, named Tecnología Santa Bárbara-Bazán (Santa Bárbara-Bazán Technology), or TSB. To improve the tank's mobility, its HS-100 diesel engine was replaced with an an MTU 833 Ka-501 diesel engine, which produces 850 metric horsepower (625.17 kW). The new engine gave the tank a power ratio of 23 metric horsepower to tonne (21.13 hp/S/T). The first 30 engines had 50% of its parts produced in Spain; the remaining engines had 73% of its parts locally made. To cope with the new engine, the tank's transmission was replaced with the German ZF LSG-3000, which was compatible with engines of up to 1,500 metric horsepower (1103.25 kW). To further boost its mobility, the upgraded tanks used the AMX-30B2's improved suspension, which features thicker torsion-bars and new types of shock absorbers. In improving the tank's firepower, the gun mount around the loader's turret hatch was modified to allow the installation of a 12.7-millimeter (0.5 in.) machine gun. Furthermore, the new CETME437A armor piercing fin stabilized discarding sabot (APFSDS) was introduced into the arsenal for the main gun, which had its accuracy improved by the installation of the new Mark 9 modification A/D fire control system, designed by Hughes Aircraft Company. The new system allowed firing during the day and during night operations, and increased the likelihood that the first shot fired by the main gun on a target will hit. Along with the Mark 9, the old M282 gunner's periscope was replaced with a new periscope and Nd:YAG laser rangefinder. Furthermore, the gunner's received a new ballistic computer, the NSC-800, and a digital panel, which was designed and manufactured by Spanish company INISEL. For the tank commander, a control unit was installed. When the commander selects the type of ammunition for the main gun, the unit would provide information on the the target to be engaged and factors affecting the ballistics of the round, such as angular velocity, wind velocity, gun elevation, and vehicle inclination. The commander's selection of ammunition type is displayed on the loader's new presentation unit. The new fire control system allowed for the main gun's stabilization system to be further modified in the future. Survivability of the tank was improved by adding new steel side-skirts, fire suppression system, and smoke generating system, which is linked to the engine. Spanning 1989 to 1993, the program modernized 150 AMX-30Es; the modernized tanks were designated AMX-30EM2s. Ultimately, the AMX-30EM2s were replaced by the Centauro anti-tank vehicles, which were partially manufactured in Spain, in the early 21st century.

Reconstruction
Starting in 1988, the other 149 AMX-30Es were reconstructed to improve their mobility; the reconstructed tanks were designated AMX-30EM1s. Several parts of the tanks, such as the brakes, were restored to match their original conditions. Their original French transmision were replaced with the American Allison CD-850-6A, which was an automatic transmission with a triple differential providing one reverse and two forward velocities. The new transmission, however, brought in a new problem; it produced excessive heat, which reduced the vehicle's range. In the early 1990s, Spain received a large amount of M60 Patton tanks, replacing its fleet of M47s and M48s, and its AMX-30EM1s.

Export
In the mid-1980s Indonesia approached Spain for procurement of armaments to modernize its armed forces and expressed interest in the AMX-30. The deal fell through, and in 2004 the Spanish agreed to sell between 33 and 46 second-hand AMX-30EM2s to the Colombian government. The sale was cancelled after José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero replaced José María Aznar as president of Spain; the new Spanish government declared that Spain did not have sufficient AMX-30EM2s in working condition to sell to Colombia. }}

Issues:
 * There seems to be an overlap between the last paragraph of Background and the Production section (the 19 tanks produced by France).
 * I have no idea if the article is using American or British English. A thought is to present units, dates, and language per the regional preference of the subject, e.g. the M1 would use American English, dates (March 23, 1999) and Imperial units (feet, miles) while the Challenger would use British English, dates (23 March 1999) and metric units (meters, kilometers).  What is the Spanish standard?  Anyway, I have opted to use American English without touching on the measurements (except for the cash).

It is not the best of copyedits (I am pretty sure an expert can pick up some areas that can be improved on), but I hope it can help address the opposes in the FAC. Good luck! Jappalang (talk) 15:19, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election
The September 2008 Military history WikiProject coordinator election has begun. We will be selecting nine coordinators to serve for the next six months from a pool of fourteen candidates. Please vote here by September 30! This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 21:26, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Image source problem with Image:Type62 004.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Type62 004.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, their copyright should also be acknowledged.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 13:15, 17 September 2008 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Megapixie (talk) 13:15, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

WP:Novels
Don't forget the Roll Call on the novels project. Reegards :: Kevinalewis  : (Talk Page) /(Desk)  16:40, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Re: AMX-30E Copyedit
Hi Jon. Feel free to ask if you would like me to look through your changes. Jappalang (talk) 14:54, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Re: For your FA success
Gee, thanks mate! It's good to know that people appreciate hard work. You've done a bit of FAing yourself, if I remember correctly, so you deserve a pat on the back as well. Cheers, –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  18:35, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

MLV TF award
I forgot to mention that awards are a lot easier to give out if you set up a template for them. You'll find examples in the templates section of coordinators open tasks. You can then paste the subst: string somewhere on the TF page, with an explanation of its use. -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 16:28, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I was actually wondering how to do that!  JonCatalán(Talk) 16:29, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry I wasn't here to answer your question, I had taken a few days off for personal reasons. In any event, i wanted to congradualte you for creating the award, and encourage you to keep up the up the good work. I'm also glad to see that in my absence others were able to lend you a hand. TomStar81 (Talk) 21:30, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Tank badge
Hey, thanks! That will help prompt me to get to work on some other tank articles, which I've been meaning to do. Regards. —Michael Z. 2008-09-22 18:04 z 

I'm aware that since I'm a recipient of this award this is somewhat against convention, but I could not overlook the most deserving recipient. Best of luck with your nomination for coordinator. Dhatfield (talk) 22:11, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Hat-trick
But if you look at Marca.com (which is the one who gaves the Pichihi Trophy) he has three goals scored agaisnt Sevilla FC. Cheers. I € ₣  (t al k) 22:21, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well i'm kind of used to this, LFP is frequently wrong and sometimes they don't even count the goals. I € ₣  (t al <font color="#000000">k) 22:35, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

1964 Gabon coup d'etat
Hey there. The FAC was closed because, well, I never actually nommed it! There was no "nominator line" or opening statement! It was closed previously because of sourcing concerns (mostly dealt with) and comprehensiveness (working on that, I've got Matthews 1966 and Darlington 1968 at my desk right now and I will try to incorporate its contents). I was basically keeping your vote intact because I am going to re-nom it in about a week, but SandyGeorgia removed it. An A-class review sounds grand, although I've never done one before and might need some help! Your friend Eddy O. D. Wiki[citation needed] 10:52, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Catalan, you were entering commentary on a closed FAC (apparently because it was still incorrectly listed at MilHist announcements). It was originally archived because of serious isses ( see Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/1964 Gabon coup_d%27%C3%A9tat/archive1) that must be addressed before it can be relisted at FAC.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 17:13, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, set it up for me. Your friend Eddy O. D. Wiki[citation needed] 22:04, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

User page grammar
In your user page it says:

"I go to Spain every year and lived there for a year in 2007 and early 2008. I current reside in San Diego."

I suggest you should change it to:

"I go to Spain annually and lived there for a year in 2007 and early 2008. I currently reside in San Diego."

Just a suggestion! Mozyr (talk) 13:18, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Verdeja
All of them? No. There were needless links & spacing. If some of it is a MOS issue, let me know which are an issue, & I'll gladly fix those. TREKphiler <sup style="color:#1034A6;"> hit me ♠  19:52, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Taking a look at your restorations, I have to disagree with you on most of them. They're making the text less clear & breaking fixed links. Am I to believe moving the drive sprocket had anything to do with the cooling system? Is a broken link to the 75mm KwK42 better than a working one? Am I to think a direct link to the Pz4 Ausf. H is better than one that isn't direct? And am I genuinely to believe italics on foreign words (panzer is most certainly not English) isn't preferable?  TREKphiler  <sup style="color:#1034A6;"> hit me ♠  20:00, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Image source problem with Image:Type62 004.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Type62 004.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, their copyright should also be acknowledged.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 10:11, 28 September 2008 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Megapixie (talk) 10:11, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Congrats!


Congratulations on your election as Coordinator of the Military history Wikiproject. In honor of your achievement, I present you with these stars. I wish you luck in the coming term. -- TomStar81 (Talk) 01:09, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Congratulations from me as well; welcome to the club! ;-)
 * (If you haven't come across them before, incidentally, we have several essays that contain some useful—in my opinion, anyways—advice for new coordinators.) Kirill (prof) 02:59, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Congrats man! It promises to be a heck of a 6 months!  Regards and best wishes, Cam (Chat) 04:29, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey, let me add to the congrats spam as well! Well done Mac, well deserved! Skinny87 (talk) 07:51, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks! I will be sure to read that advice. ;) JonCatalán(Talk) 14:19, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Milhist discussion
Thanks very much for your very good input. May I ask you to consider refactoring your comment into three or four shorter comments, directly under seb-section they refer to please? It makes it much easier to follow and to see where the discussion is going? Sorry to trouble you about this :) 15:37, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks very much! -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 15:43, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Re:Edit Summary
Its not too premature to add your name since we all recognize you do great work with tanks, but it may be a good idea to wait on the other TFs until we have the finalized version of the table. Things tend to change between the draft and the final, so it would best not to confuse people by adding your name anywhere else for the moment. Just something to consider :) TomStar81 (Talk) 02:13, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

re: Inactive A-class Reviews
This is a new system so we're on new ground. According to the rules, they can be closed whenever a coordinator feels like enough time has elapsed but perhaps a message under the nom saying that if the nominator doesn't respond soon this will be failed. The Fort Henry (and Fort Donelson) reviews were always going to be problematic because the principal contributor. A message to a similar effect, listing the articles, in WP:MHCOORD would be best as someone uninvolved (I'm not, I've comment etc) might decide to close them now. -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 15:54, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Re: Battle of Fort Henry review
Well, I'm not sure. I would think that there's a difference between a support, conditional or otherwise, and an oppose.

On a more practical level, none of the conditions listed are—in my opinion—particularly significant ones as far as the A-Class criteria are concerned; they are, at worst, minor formatting points that may or may not need to be fixed prior to FAC. The only one that's not—the citation issue—is unreasonably stringent, in my view; one footnote per paragraph is widely seen as an acceptable density (compare Cla68's recent FAs), and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Kirill (prof) 02:19, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

quick request
First off, congrats on being elected a milhist coordinator. I'm looking forward to working with you for the next six months.

Secondly, would you be able to do a quick pre-FAC checkover of Operation Tractable? I'm wanting to make sure there aren't any glaring issues (primarily with regards to prose and MoS) before I go for FA, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Cam (Chat) 21:23, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Featured List contest
Hey, this is , co-coordinator of the WikiCup; just informing you of the Featured List contest, starting this coming Friday. You may want to check it out; it will keep you busy for the time being before the WikiCup starts around January. Thanks for listening!  iMa tth ew (talk) 22:07, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXI (September 2008)
The September 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 22:06, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Mark Speight
Hi, you commented on the (failed) FAC; please can you help me out by leaving some feedback at peer review? Thanks, and best wishes, -- how do you turn this on  12:04, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Featured article candidates/TAM (tank)
You may wish to poke Jb's talk page; he comments on lots of FACs and might miss it on his watchlist otherwise. Giggy (talk) 06:48, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I did. :( JonCatalán(Talk) 14:36, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

3rd Kharkov
I've just had a quick scan through. Very good stuff. Do you mind if I copy-edit it a bit? Iron out a few awkwardnesses, nothing serious, inevitable in a job of this nature :) 17:08, 9 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The lead, incidentally, is masterly. One of the best I've read for a complex engagement. It's so good when people use military terms correctly and clearly know what they actually mean :) I'll probably do the CE in bits, section at a time. -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 17:22, 9 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Your nom. "He/his". -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 21:41, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I've been merrily tweaking away and now I've come to grips a bit more I think an OOB is badly needed. It could be really rudimentary, no more than a paragraph, summarizing the opposing forces. What do you think? -- R OGER D AVIES  talk


 * Oh God I expressed that badly. I had in mind a text diagrammatic. I'll try to find you an example. -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 14:25, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * On reflection, you're right. It's all far too complex. -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 20:47, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I believe the numbering came in about the time of the battle. For instance, the Hitler Youth one was formed, in May 1943, as 12 SS etc. I'd be tempted to keep it in for tidiness. -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 14:39, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Third Battle of Kharkov
How about small gains or minor gains ? Jim Sweeney (talk) 17:35, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Milhist Assessment of Frederick III, German Emperor
Hey, thanks for your comment on the wikiproject milhist review of Frederick III, German Emperor. I expanded the intro as you said and was wondering if you could look it over and let me know if there's anything else I can fix about it, as I know its not perfect. The assessment page where I talk about what I did is here. Thanks if you can help. --Banime (talk) 20:09, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

do you have information on the 102nd SS hvy. Pzr. Battalion?
Hey, Catalan, I've started an article on the 102nd SS Heavy-Panzer Battalion (originally to de-redlink Operation Tractable). Would you happen to have any information on it in your massive collection of books on Armoured Warfare? All the best, Cam (Chat) 23:08, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Excellent work

 * Well done! -- how do you turn this on  19:45, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

GA review of Battle of Marathon
Hi there, and thanks for reviewing this article. I have now added references for the remaining sentences that you indicated (I just deleted the very last paragraph, which was frankly irrelevant, anyway). I have also played around with the images, and added a couple more to break up the text. If there are any other issues, please let me know! MinisterForBadTimes (talk) 09:29, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Third Battle of Kharkov
Hello, I just wanted to introduce myself and let you know I am glad to be reviewing the article Third Battle of Kharkov you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period.


 * FYI, I completed the review and transcluded. Apologies for the layout, I'm not very good with using templates so I copy and pasted each area and it got a bit messy. Skinny87 (talk) 19:47, 14 October 2008 (UTC)


 * All is done except for the Kharkov image tag. Say's it's been improperly labelled and might be deleted without more info. Might be a good idea to just replace it with another image, or lose it?

Oh, by the way, looked at the other article you've put up for GA Nom, and I think it needs a good copedit for the prose. Mostly things like peacock words or slang - like 'slated' in the lead, for example. Just a heads up! Skinny87 (talk) 06:38, 15 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Congratulations! Third Battle of Kharkov is now a Good Article. If you get time, would you mind 'swapping' reviews as it were, and reviewing Battle of Fort Eben-Emael for GA-Class? Cheers, Skinny87 (talk) 14:58, 15 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that! So, what's your next FA to be? Skinny87 (talk) 08:38, 16 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey, when you get around to Utah Beach, send me a message - I have a couple of books that I think might be able to help out. Skinny87 (talk) 08:47, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

USS New Jersey (BB-62)
After New Jersey leaves the mainpage it will be nessicary for us to check all the article linked to USS New Jersey and ensure that no subtle vandalism crept into them by means of the USS New Jersey article. Are you willing to help? TomStar81 (Talk) 19:59, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Rollback
Also see the current discussion at WT:MHCOORD. -MBK004 04:13, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

USS New Jersey (BB-62)
The article USS New Jersey (BB-62) is under attack from members of the Image Board 4chan at this time. I suggest it be locked. CindyAbout /T/P/C/ 05:04, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Pending AMX-30 improvements.
Hi, thanks for the note about your upcoming improvements to the AMX-30 article. Great! I'll keep my hands off it for a while. However, I do notice that we seem to have a dearth of decent images of AMX-30's. I'm probably visiting Bovington Tank Museum tomorrow, and I believe they have an AMX-30 B2. Do any other tanks spring to your mind as lacking photos?Hohum (talk) 23:08, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * They have 300 tanks at Bovington, and I only have finite time, batteries and SD cards, but I'll be sure to get a few of the T-55 for you. I think this is the one you're talking about T-55AD? Hohum (talk) 23:27, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Bovington is being improved, and unfortunately the T-55 was squished behind other tanks. I've uploaded the best shot I could get. Also got a few of the AMX-30 in case you feel they are useful, along with a hundred or so others.

1964 Gabon
Hi Catalan, just want to tell you that the 1964 Gabon coup d'etat A-class review failed for inactivity. Could you copyedit it before I make the final push to FAC? ~  one of many editorofthewikis ( talk / contribs / editor review ) ~ 19:43, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I tried AWB and got approved and all, but I never figured out how to work it! Hope you'll have berter luck. Cheers ~  one of many editorofthewikis ( talk / contribs / editor review ) ~ 19:48, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * FAC time! ~  one of many editorofthewikis ( talk / contribs / editor review ) ~ 01:13, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

re: FA Medal
Thank you very much, Jon, for the award. I really appreciate it :) -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 01:59, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

re: Third Battle of Kharkov ACR
Hi mate, sure I'll have a through read of the article and provide you with any extra comments (and perhaps even a support :)). I won't really be able to fully read the article until tomorrow and I'm not exactly very knowledgeable in this area, so you might have to bear with me. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 02:48, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

P.S. Thank you for all the comments and supports you have provided on my own ACRs; I really appreciate it. May I ask why on many of the reviews you have supported the article but stated you cannot really comment on the prose? I'm just curious as you have said it a few times, and was intrigued. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 02:48, 18 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Lol, fair enough. I think there are very few out there who are experts at prose, and I, also, am not one of them. I have now gone through the article and added another support towards the desired A-Class. It is a well written and informative article, and you should be commended for your efforts; well done! Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 08:43, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Tank name
Good morning/evening sir, Can you recognize this tank below ? i found a large number of them so i took a photo of one.



 A M M A R   14:32, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks alot my friend :)   A M M A R   18:39, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

11th Airborne Peer Review
Hey. Thanks again for the advice on the Peer Review. I've never done an Order of Battle article before - do you know how to do them at all? Skinny87 (talk) 13:23, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Looking at them, having a separate article doesn't seem a good idea for the division. Those are OoBs for battles or campaigns. A hypothetical 11th Airborne Division one would just have one side, the division, and it's order didn't really change. So adding it into the article doesn't seem like a bad idea to me. What do you think? Skinny87 (talk) 18:26, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm, yes, I see what you mean. I'll try and get onto it after I finish rewriting the section I'm having to add info to. Skinny87 (talk) 19:48, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey - could you close the Peer Review? I'm going to go for FAC in a day or so. Skinny87 (talk) 19:53, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Map
You welcome sir, i'm trying to contribute :)   A M M A R   09:54, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Panzer I - "See also" section.
Hi, ref your/my changes: I added the "See also" section to Panzer I to avoid it screwing up the column formatting (i.e. 2 full columns turns into 2 full colums and an empty one) of the section it's now in, as I moved the wikimedia link from below the nav panel where hardly anyone will notice it. Not a big deal, but I tend to try and configure pages for flow and readability, and it's somewhat lost again now in the middle of a load of references and notes. Since wikimedia is a sister project I thought "See also" was more appropriate than "External links". Then again, you've been doing this longer than me, any advice is appreciated Hohum (talk) 12:29, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * A Wikimedia section sounds like a good plan, I'll do that. I thought the "See also" section was intended for internal links within the wikipedia-related "wikiverse", while "External links" was for outside. However, I agree both get used as a dumping ground for dross, and their non-existence in an article is less of an open door for that sort of behaviour.
 * On a related note, is there a WPMILHIST style policy (or your own recommendations) on what should go in Notes as opposed to References?
 * ..and on an unrelated note, do you think the change I made to the Battle of Khafji lead image is an improvement? I can tweak it if required. Also, would you like an SVG rendition of the "Heel of Kuwait" image used on the same page? Hohum (talk) 19:09, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Possible Collaboration?
Hey Mac. I'll be on IRC tonight and I was wondering if you might be interested in a possible collaboration on Tetrarch tank? Skinny87 (talk) 12:39, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Newsletter
Hi! Now we've got a name can you commit some time to getting the workshop please? It would be really good to go out with a new look next issue (ie November issue), which gives us a month. Are you still up for this? -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 09:04, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Valley of Tears
Hi. I've rewritten Valley of Tears yesterday and it has been argued on the talk page that it relies too heavily on Israeli and Western sources, which is rather true. However, these are all the sources I have. I noticed your library in the logistics department of WikiProject Military history and saw that you have an impressive collection on tank warfare (in addition to being generally knowledgeable on the subject), so I thought maybe you could help improve that article? Thanks in advance, Nudve (talk) 12:56, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I presume the book you're referring to is Elusive Victory, which I already used in this article. Thanks anyway! -- Nudve (talk) 18:39, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Baudienst
On Contest page you assessed it as B, but that is not present on talk page. Perhaps you forgot to update the talk templates? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 21:27, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Tanks in the Spanish Army
Please provide a lead for the article. AshLin (talk) 04:10, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Multiple FAC noms
The instructions at WP:FAC indicate one nom at a time; please withdraw the latest until the first gains support (alternately, you can withdraw the earlier one). Sandy Georgia (Talk) 15:47, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
 * What did you decide about which to withdraw? I'm looking at your older FAC and seeing that I am again going to have to type of the long list of MoS issues.  I don't mind doing this for new nominators, but when you've been through FAC many times, it gets frustrating to review the same issues on each one, issues that have come up before.  That's one of the reasons you shouldn't deplete FAC resources by nomming more than one at a time.  Please use named refs per WP:FN, review WP:MOSNUM on digits vs. numbers, and check the capitalization on section headings per WP:MSH.  I usually don't have to keep going over things like that for editors who have been through FAC many times :-)  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 06:58, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You have gained some support on the first nom, so I'll leave them both this time. In the future, please don't add a second nom until you have image, sourcing, prose and MoS clearance and significant support.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 17:39, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Image permission problem with Image:T-55 enigma wiki.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:T-55 enigma wiki.jpg I noticed that that while you provided a valid copyright licensing tag, there is no proof that the creator of the image (or other media file) agreed to license it under the given license.

If you created this media entirely yourself but have previously published it elsewhere (especially online), please either
 * make a note permitting reuse under the GFDL or another acceptable free license (see this list) at the site of the original publication; or
 * Send an email from an address associated with the original publication to [mailto:permissions-en@wikimedia.org permissions-en@wikimedia.org], stating your ownership of the material and your intention to publish it under a free license. You can find a sample permission letter here.

If you did not create it entirely yourself, please ask the person who created the image to take one of the two steps listed above, or if the owner of the image has already given their permission to you via email, please forward that email to [mailto:permissions-en@wikimedia.org permissions-en@wikimedia.org].

If you believe the media meets the criteria at Non-free content, use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags, and add a rationale justifying the image's use on the article or articles where it is included. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have provided evidence that their copyright owners have agreed to license their works under the tags you supplied, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Images lacking evidence of permission may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. dave pape (talk) 03:58, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXII (October 2008)
The October 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 23:33, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

adoption
Will you adopt me? Xcrunner7 (talk) 21:59, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Coordinator discussions
It would be helpful to have some input on the following discussions, some of which you may have missed:


 * WT:MHCOORD - Proposal for filling the last three TF coordinator slots
 * WT:MHCOORD - Job description re task forces. Some input already but much more welcomed so we can get a summary/checklist in place.
 * WT:MHCOORD - Views welcomed on whether in principle Milhist should adopt C-Class.
 * WT:MHCOORD - Finishing touches on getting the reappraisal review in place.

Very many thanks :) -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 09:52, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

George Ingram ACR
Hi Jon, thanks for granting your support to the above article, but you forgot to sign your name, lol. If you'd be able to go over and sign it, it would be much appreciated. (See here) Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 02:52, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Grant
At the top of the page under "Wnioski". The format is in my last post on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history write a long justification what book you want to buy, if possible with ISSN number and an internet link, why, how you will use it to enhance content in Wikimedia projects. And when do you expect to finish the project. Mieciu K (talk) 00:34, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Correction, you also have to send the same request for a grant by e-mail to wikikonkurs (at) tools.wikimedia.pl and to przykuta (at) o2.pl. The request has to be in .txt or .rtf format. Mieciu K (talk) 00:51, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It seems so, some of the rules for that contest seem strange even to me. Maybe someone can translate the rules into English next year. Mieciu K (talk) 01:02, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I will keep watch over your request. If any problems will arise i will let you know or correct them myself. The grant requests are reviewed on thursdays. The decision making process is not public. Mieciu K (talk) 01:11, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Battle of Khafji FA
Congratulations on this article passing FA. I guess was wrong about the tables. Cla68 (talk) 01:42, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Adoption Request
Hey, i joined Wikipedia on 2nd Dec and and i'd appreciate if you'd be my mentor. You can check out my user page. Just one thing- we're ten hours apart, just let me know if you think  that's okay (and there won't be much of interactive learning) Thanks.--Sayitaintsojoe (talk) 07:42, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey, thanks. I'm not looking to add too many new articles, just expand on India-related stubs. Mostly, though, I'm looking to debate(on the discussion page) what should/shouldn't be be added to articles related to politics and international disputes. I guess this is where WP would need most assistance in the future, with all the vandals and passions. I'm pretty much done with my userpage, tell me if its credible enough.
 * I have a question: how do you resize pictures on WP? For instance, i want to add the following picture to one of my userboxes, w/o obviously enlarging the box.
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Eug%C3%A8ne_Delacroix_-_La_libert%C3%A9_guidant_le_peuple.jpg

Yeah..you're right. I just thought that a decent userpage gives some sense of 'the ship anchors here' to the other users, as opposed to someone who posts comments with their name in red. Thanks for the picture tip. I will need to back off on my debates, you're right. All of them are hounded by very passionate users and the little I've seen until now gives me a sense of what I'm in for.--Sayitaintsojoe (talk) 10:41, 4 December 2008 (UTC) So do you officially have to adopt me or should I just add a userbox saying that you have? Also, like you said about everybody having a PhD here, I find it a little strange to see so many 'twelve' year olds with interests far too mature for their age. What's the deal with that? I mean, even if you were lying, saying that you're twelve would make you lose credibility, right? Thanks again,--Sayitaintsojoe (talk) 08:25, 4 December 2008 (UTC) Another question- Suppose I present an argument for an edit on the discussion page of a lesser-known article, and no one replies/comments, then can i directly add the facts on the main page? I know i can, technically, but whats the protocol on WP? --Sayitaintsojoe (talk) 10:38, 4 December 2008 (UTC) '''Hey. I'm having trouble with image uploads'''. I uploaded these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fclogo.JPG http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mainbuildingmain.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fclogo.JPG and later provided them with this I'm still getting the warning about the copyright. Is that redundant now or do i need to do something more?--Sayitaintsojoe (talk) 10:35, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Right, I'll add a userbox too. The thing with references is sometimes they can be misleading. You see a little blue number in superscript next to a claim, and it leads to a credible media source, say, TIME.I have noticed that at several times, certain western periodicals undermine local knowledge when it comes to South Asia as compared to the middle or far east. This isn't a query or anything, it's not even important, I'm just discussing it with you.--Sayitaintsojoe (talk) 05:33, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey theres drilling work going on outside my house, the internet's going to be erratic at best. I'll touch base with you asap. Btw, how long does it usually take to get a breakthrough on the discussion page for the edit to go through? (or not go through, if the other group's views are chosen..which brings me to my next question: who plays judge here?)--Sayitaintsojoe (talk) 19:25, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey. So do i have to upload those pictures again? or are those warnings redundant(they could be, they were sent by a bot)
 * Also, please check that article out (Fergusson College) Its been tagged for several issues - neutrality, citations etc. The text was full of peacock terms, so i had to practically rewrite the article. I have given references and the kept the tone to neutral. My question is: Can i remove the tags myself now?--Sayitaintsojoe (talk) 13:05, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Polish Wikimedia book's support
Hi,

We have discussed today your application :-) Please read this:

http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikonkurs/ksi%C4%85%C5%BCki#Carro_de_Combate_Trubia_A4

Cheers,

Polimerek (talk) 21:25, 4 December 2008 (UTC) (pl:Wikipedysta:Polimerek)

The book from the Polish Wikimedia
Hello. I've been asked to contact you about your request for the book. The council which makes the decisions is willing to accept your request providing that you co-operate with a Polish wikipedian who knows Spanish (that would be me) in translating your work at en.wiki into Polish with the help of the book itself. Sir Wolf (talk) 21:29, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXIII (November 2008)
The November 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 16:03, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Operations Little Saturn & Uranus
Would you be interested in collaborating on Operation Little Saturn and Operation Uranus? Cam (Chat) 07:51, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * In the past, it's been a matter of each of us contributing as much as we can, and then the other person filling in the gaps/tweaking. Por exemplar, I'd do as much as I could on a particular section of one of the articles, then you'd fill in what I hadn't and copyedit, then we'd both tweak as necessary. Cam (Chat) 01:25, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Non-redundant tank templates
Hi. I notice you removed the post-Cold War template from TAM (tank). In cases like this, where the TAM is in use well into the next period, I think it is appropriate to put both templates in the article. This way, one can read about any of its contemporaries in a single click.

I tried to link articles from only one template to avoid redundant links on the page in such cases. —Michael Z. 2008-12-09 06:19 z 

DYK and offline sources
Jon Catalan, I've tried to leave a response to your comments here, although I'm not sure how helpful it will be; thanks for raising your concerns. Also, when I went through the DYK history to read the particular hook discussion you were talking about, I noticed it looks like I was a little short with you when we discussed that hook, and I apologize for that. I don't remember all the specific circumstances at the time, but there is no excuse for me to have been bossy like that. On a side note, congratulations on having your article at FAC; it looks like it has made enormous strides since it was at DYK just a month ago. &mdash;Politizer talk / contribs 19:36, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

As per our conversation, here. Ottava Rima (talk) 19:45, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

thanks
hey, thanks for the suggestions for improvement for 2nd Canadian Infantry Division both previous to and during its FAC, which just successfully closed. Cam (Chat) 23:58, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Tetrarch tank ACR
Hi there! I was wondering if you, as a Coordinator, might consider closing the Tetrarch (tank) ACR as I believe there's a consensus to promote the article; out of five editors who have commented, four have out-right supported it and I believe the fifth would as well, as I've dealt with their concerns. Skinny87 (talk) 21:25, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, of course! Thanks anyway, Skinny87 (talk) 21:32, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

WP:METEO
–Juliancolton Happy Holidays 16:45, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Another FA
Congratulations with your latest FA success!--MWAK (talk) 12:06, 22 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, full kudos there. Of course, I meant to support its promotion to FA, but my connection started playing up at that moment. Keep it up! --Raoulduke47 (talk) 22:37, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

WikiCup notice
The 2009 WikiCup will begin on January 1, 2009. The first round will run through March 31, 2009. For more information on this tournament, read the "about" section on the main WikiCup page.

This year, we have a different system in calculating points. At User:Garden/WikiCup/Submissions, you will find information about submitting your article (and other) work to earn points. Each contestant will have their own individual subpage for submitting completed work to us.

This year, User:ST47 will also be running one of his bots to calculate mainspace edits and read your submission subpages to calculate the point values you receive based on our scoring chart.

Questions or comment? Ask at the talk page or go directly to Garden or IMatthew's talk page. Good luck and Happy Holidays! --  aye matthew  ✡ and <font color=#660000>Garden. 13:49, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Action of 13 January 1797 FAC
Thankyou for participating in the FAC for Action of 13 January 1797. The article has now passed and your assistance in the process was much appreciated. (By the way, I'm sorry you didn't like my copyedit on Battle of Khafji. If there are similar problems in the future, please let me know and I'll modify my changes) Regards--Jackyd101 (talk) 11:41, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

AMX 30 ?
Hi Catalan! I've more or less reached the limits of what I can contribute to the AMX-30 article with the sources presently in my possession — I'll try and acquire the relevant works of Touzin and Ferrard — and this brings me to a final issue, as yet left undecided: should we change all the "AMX-30" designations into "AMX 30"? The present situation is of course defensible. "AMX-30" is an often used name in the anglophone literature and a diligent observer will from the direct name indications in italics deduce that they represent the official French designation. However, I believe that it is superior to give "AMX 30" consistently: this is less confusing, more "correct" and also supported by some of the best English sources. B.T. White uses AMX 30 throughout and though Duncan put "AMX-30" on the cover of the AFV Profile, Ogorkiewicz, by far the better scholar ;o), writes AMX 30 in text itself. So, what say you? I'll be more than happy to make all the changes :^).--MWAK (talk) 10:51, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, your first three points are about disadvantages — inconsistency with other wikis, a possible future confusion, a lot of work — that ideally should not influence our decision. Of course your last point is a very good one: after all in principle those names that are common in English should be used (in pure quantity AMX 30 is probably globally prevalent as it has been most often used in France itself). However, given that the name in question is not some normal noun but a technical designation and that the difference is so slight (a single hyphen) that it may well count as a spelling variation, I feel the emphasis in this case should be on good information transfer. People consult an encyclopaedia to be correctly informed; if they had used "AMX-30" before, this was undoubtedly because they simply did not know AMX 30 is the official name; they will be glad to have learned something new. We would do them a (admittedly very minor, but still real) disfavour by then nevertheless conditioning them to use the incorrect designation by many times exposing them to "AMX-30". Also consider that, in the vernacular so to say, the American tank is commonly referred to as "M-60" ("M-47", "M-48", "M-1") but the article title nevertheless — and rightly so in my opinion — is M60 Patton. Why should things be different for a French tank?--MWAK (talk) 10:00, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Arena Active Protection System
Hi Jon. How are things? I haven't talked to you in a while, good to see that you are still pumping out excellent articles! Speaking of excellent articles, I commented on your latest FA candidacy page. However, the page was just archived and I don't know if you are watching it. I had a question about this sentence: "Drozd could protect a tank between the elevations of −6–20 degrees along the vertical plane, and between 40–60 degrees along the horizontal plane." I was not sure (because of the minus and dash sign) of whether you meant −6 and −20 degrees, or −6 and 20 degrees. Could you clarify this in the article? A minor issue to be sure, but since this is a Featured Article, it is important that we get every detail right. Once again, congrats on your FA. Regards, Dabomb87 (talk) 04:46, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Done! JonCatalán(Talk) 09:35, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that was bugging me. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:23, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

WikiCup

 * Delivered by <font face="Trebuchet MS"><font color="#5A3696">neuro <font color="#5A3696">(talk) for <font color=#3333cc>Garden  and  aye  matthew  at 20:45, 31 December 2008 (UTC)