User talk:Cathlec

Welcome!

Hello, Cathlec, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome!
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Minor edits
I notice that every one of your edits, except for your recent question on WP:NCHQ, has been marked as minor. I guess that you haven't read the definition of a minor edit, which is rather more restrictive than you may have assumed, so I suggest that you read it now. - David Biddulph (talk) 16:55, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, David. I have read all of the articles you suggested. I appear to be suffering from information overload. I am just asking for a quick handle on how to add a Discography. It it a heading to a current page that will appear on it's own page, or is it a new article that need to be created like a new article?? If so, how is it linked back to person's page. I also followed your suggestion on reading the definition of a minor edit. Cathlec (talk) 17:32, 26 September 2011 (UTC)


 * You had an answer at WP:NCHQ. - David Biddulph (talk) 19:58, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

David, I have entered the framework of my Sergio Franchi discograpy as a practice page on my user page. Have gotten all of the errors off, except for the first reference! I have no idea to what reference 1. refers to! Is this because it is not linked to the Sergio Franchi page? Would appreciate help. Will also need help in moving the page. I am starting with the discography, although I will also be making a Major Revision to the main Sergio Franchi page. Thanks, CatherineCathlec (talk) 00:36, 30 September 2011 (UTC)


 * There seemed to be a null reference at the top of the article, so I've for you. I haven't looked at the rest of your draft page. - David Biddulph (talk) 06:35, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

David, Thanks again. I thought it was a null reference, but had no idea how to remove it. I guess I can ask that as a help question next time I need to know. Regarding my draft page. I have some comments, questions. 1. Ity appears that when I move the page, I will have to add the "==" signs to create a true outline and topic heading. Current format will not let me do. Is this correct? 2. I am just working on the text and references for now, but almost finished. I need to do the tables where I add the actual discography information next. Should I add this information on the draft page and move it all together?? ... or move the text part, then add the table information to the actual discography page? Thanks for your input on these two questions, and for your input when you read current draft. Catherine Cathlec (talk) 16:39, 30 September 2011 (UTC)


 * There's nothing to stop you adding the == markers for section headings now. I would recommend that you include the discography detail before you try to move the page, as if you put up an article with empty sections you may find that the empty sections are removed by other users, or in the extreme the page might be deleted if it is felt that it doesn't meet Wikipedia's criteria.  You may still want to think about the original advice you had, which said that if the original page isn't too large you might consider adding the discography section to the existing article.  That question might be one to be considered if you request a review of your draft before you move it. - David Biddulph (talk) 17:02, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

David, Good advice about empty sections. However, I could always add these sections back whem moved. Although the original page is not large at this point, I plan on doing a major revision, addition of my biographical research on this singer. Some examples I have looked at (like his sister, Dana Valery) has her discography on the original page. Other examples, have discography on seperate page. I have created a Discography page, but decided to practice first before moving. I am still a bit in the dark because I envision both pages (original and discography) becoming larger. I guess it is a matter of personal choice, which brings me to one of my original questions about linkage. I guess I'll have to take it a step at a time. CatherineCathlec (talk) 17:22, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Developing First Article
I created this new talk section because I do not believe that future talk will involve minor edits. I have one minor question and a comment now that I am well into my first article. (Not ready to move yet, still developing tables). Under my contributions section I noticed that all of my edits on my practice page are included in my contributions?? David, should I be listing a description of the many changes I make on this practice page?Cathlec (talk) 13:55, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

David. I am just about finished with the Sergio franchi discography article. Have read a lot of information about tables, but could use some technical assistance about how to add a second line (B side) on my last Table for "Singles and EP Albums." Thanks, CatherineCathlec (talk) 00:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I'll help. Do you mean second column? Can you be more specific? See also: Help:Table Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:04, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Ditto. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to do, either. If you can happen to find either an article on Wikipedia or something on the internet that resembles the format you're trying to achieve, we'll be able to help better. As it stands, it's difficult for us to envision what you're trying to make. In addition to Help:Table (as mentioned by Anna), also check out Help:Wikitable, How to make a table in Wikipedia, and Manual of Style/Tables for some other examples of wikitables in action. -- slakr  \ talk / 03:12, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Anna and Slakr. What I am trying to do is add second and third lines on any of the columns. I want to keep the coumns as appearing, but adding, for example, on the second EP, 4 numbered songs, each on separate line in the Title column. There are three instances of this. All of the other titles have a 'B' side and need to have a second line (Before line break in the title section. This Is an example of how I want EPs listed: 1960   San Remo 1960             Durium ECGE 75144        1. Perderti        2. Splende L"Arcobaleno        3. Perdoniamoci        4. Splende Il Sole         Most of the other Singles should appear like this within the table: 1962    Appasionada              RCA 1289         Midnight in Paris      1963    The Good Life            RCA 8149         Bella Nina And so on: I did look at a couple of examples of other similar discography tables, but am in a bit over my head at this point. I couldn't decipher some of them because of all the data about sales placement in all of those countries! I tried one way using a wrap by limiting the wisth of the table column, but that is not precise enough. I am wondering about just building a non-Wiki table (Is that what it is called if what-you-see-is-what-you-get?) I could add the horizontal lines in such a created table, but wouldn't know how to add the vertical lines? Please let me know if I have clarified what I want, and if these is a not too complex example. Thanks, CatherineCathlec (talk) 17:24, 5 October 2011 (UTC)


 * You'll need rowspan.


 * {| border="1"


 * rowspan="2"|1962
 * Appasionada
 * rowspan="2"|RCA 1289
 * Midnight in Paris
 * rowspan="2"|1963
 * The Good Life
 * rowspan="2"|RCA 8149
 * Bella Nina
 * }
 * rowspan="2"|RCA 8149
 * Bella Nina
 * }
 * }
 * }


 * For more details of the options, see Help:Table, as mentioned above. - David Biddulph (talk) 18:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, David. Believe it or not, I have read the Help:Table, many times. None seemed to speak directly to my table. I latched onto needing a rowspan on last look, but not sure where to place it. Thanks, again. Will keep trying. CatherineCathlec (talk) 18:26, 5 October 2011 (UTC)


 * If you want to look at a slightly more complicated example, again in the field of discography, you might look at which I did in response to a request when someone had got a table in a tangle. I must admit that for me it does often end up with a lot of trial and error using the "Show Preview" button. - David Biddulph (talk) 19:59, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, David. I am learning to use the preview page to keep from having to do too many edits. Will tackle that table again tomorrow. However I have run into a new problem on one of the wiki song pages. I added Sergio Franchi and reference on "And This is My Beloved" page. Got strange message, then calculated I needed to add a missing "Reference" section, as there was not one for the other data. Went to the link and it did not lead me to believe I could correct this by myself. Can you please have a look at the song page? Thanks, CatherineCathlec (talk) 00:49, 6 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Someone has added for you; see . - David Biddulph (talk) 04:10, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

David, Another topic has presented itself: Continuing with my internal references, I added substantial material while expanded the wiki page for "Mimi (Song)", added two references, Franchi's contribution, and Reference Section. The "Cautionary Banner?? on the page for "Contains No References" needs to be removed. A short article, but more stand alone. Thnaks, CatherineCathlec (talk) 21:35, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

David, same for wiki page "Tammy (song)." Short concise article, so flag could be removed as it has five references.Cathlec (talk) 02:40, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

David, Thanks as always. Creating a lot of reference lists as I am going along now: also editing Categories. Quick question. Can I force spaces between text. I am trying unsuccessfly to do that to separate song titles from names of Musicals. The net effect is more like a column, but I think if I use column format, that brings up a lot more issues. Just simply want to force some spaces, to make the lists more readable. Any suggestion? Thanks, CatherineCathlec (talk) 03:46, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Completed First Article
David, read that I am not supposed to be helped with questions that I can find the answer to by myself. Anyway, I licked the "Singles Table" problem. Didn't need "rowspan." David, I would like for you to review my article at this point. I think it is finished, and I would like some feedback. Secondly, after feedback, corrections if needed, I would like for you to help me move to a New Page: "Sergio Franchi discography." I created it once, but it disappeared because I decided to create it on my own work space. Lastly, I will need to create a link on Franchi's main Wiki Page to the discography page. I think I can do that last bit OK. I have some further edits that I wish to make on Internal linkage, but I can do that after We move the page. Thanks again, CatherineCathlec (talk) 19:50, 11 October 2011 (UTC) Devid, I posted the above message to request you review my article now that it is completed. I am not sure what the exact protocol is when submitted a page, but I followed a link and put it into a review link. Check it out for me, will you? I would like for you to follow through with the completion of my discography. (PS< as you can see I am still a novice on how to use the talk pages). Thanks, CatherineCathlec (talk) 17:07, 12 October 2011 (UTC)


 * If you want to communicate with another user, you should leave them a message at their talk page, so they get a notification for it. I left him a note of your request. Regards  So Why  17:53, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Dear SOWhy, I just read some more about Talk pages. Had read before, went to David's talk page.. but couldn't figure out where to leave the message. Just tried it again, but think I got it. Not sure if I should be replying to you here on my talk page, or if I should go to Your talk page to reply. I guess I'll figure it out. Thanks for your help. CatherineCathlec (talk) 21:24, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Your article has been moved to AfC space
Hi! I would like to inform you that the Articles for Creation submission which was previously located here: User:Cathlec/Sergio Franchi Discography has been moved to Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Sergio Franchi Discography, this move was made automatically and doesn't affect your article, if you have any questions please ask on my talk page! Have a nice day. Petan-Bot (talk) 18:22, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Petan-Bot. I thought I moved the article to space for review when I clicked the link at the top of my practice page. Is the link to "Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation" different from where I first moved it? Anyway, Thanks for your help. CatherineCathlec (talk) 21:19, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation
 You recently made a submission to Articles for Creation. Your article has been reviewed and because some issues were found, it could not be accepted in its current form; it is now located at Wikipedia&. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. Feel free to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved. (You can do this by adding the text to the top of the article.) Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! Alpha_Quadrant   (talk)  23:35, 12 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Have addressed the issues raised, and resubmitted. Boy! That was a lightning fast decline! Took a lot!!!!! of work to write! Is the resubmit going to take an long!!!! time for review?Cathlec (talk) 17:59, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Category:Sergio Franchi songs
It's where you left it. You missed the 'category:' in your search. Cheers. --Richhoncho (talk) 18:55, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Sergio Franchi Discography, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created. Thank you for helping Wikipedia! mabdul 17:51, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The article has been assessed as List-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see what needs to be done to bring it to the next level.
 * Please continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request.
 * If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider

Second review
Hi there.

I just noticed your response to me on Talk:Sergio_Franchi discography but please note, I only saw it by chance. In future, if you want to ensure that a specific editor sees something, you need to write a quick 'notification' on their user talk page - mine is User talk:Chzz - and let them know that there's a reply. E.g. "Hi, I've replied on Talk:Sergio Franchi discography ~ ".

You also put - what that does is, it'll get a response from any helper. I've actually left the 'helpme' in place, and I'm sure someone else will indeed respond, over there - it might be good to get another opinion (and they can decide if the tags can be removed).

But I will answer you right here;


 * I'm sorry if you feel harassed; please don't. In making my comments, I'm just suggesting ways we can improve the article - which is what we are all here to do; I wasn't necessarily saying you should make the changes, because it is not your article; please don't take any of the criticisms personally
 * Almost everything† does indeed need a clear reference, but there are many thousands of current articles that lack them. That means they need fixing, but it's not a good justification for not referencing things; it's an extension of the Other stuff exists principle. Do not assume that, just because some other page does something a certain way, that it is appropriate or advisable; instead, it's best to try and find examples that are featured articles (or, in this case, featured lists) - because those are of high quality. Only about 1 in 1000 articles meets that high standard.
 * † You're absolutely right that 'sky is blue' wouldn't need a reference - in fact, people have written essays about just that! In looking at them, please note they are just opinion essays, not policies or guidelines: You don't need to cite that the sky is blue, You do need to cite that the sky is blue.
 * For the more official stance, see WP:CK.
 * Thus, it wouldn't be problematic to simply say e.g."O Sole Mio was recorded in Italian" - but it is potentially problematic to say Most of the traditional Neapolitan songs were recorded in Italian, and that many were sung in combinations of Italian and English. I hope you can see the distinction I am making.


 * IMDB and other 'user generated content' (which includes this Wikipedia, and most other wikis) are, indeed, not reliable sources. See e.g. WP:IMDB
 * I do appreciate that you are trying to save the information on an important American artist but, that's not the purpose of the Encyclopaedia; we only document information that can already be verified elsewhere. Other websites which do not have our strict policies about verification are more appropriate for trying to save information like that - I believe you could probably add the discography info to IMDB, or Last.fm, without any need for references.


 * Thank you for helping to improve Wikipedia


 * Spellchecker - I don't know much about Internet Exploder Explorer, because I avoid it. The Firefox web browser is far superiorin my opinion and the spell-check in that works just fine in Wikipedia. Lots of other Wikipedia features also seem to work better in Firefox, so you may wish to try it.

Best,  Chzz  ► 13:11, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

About my review
Hello, I have reviewed Sergio Franchi discography and I have. I fixed the bare url problem and some other things. References pointed out to the homepage of the websites, not to the specific pages. Please remind that your statements have to be verifiable, hence you should provide the specific page in which the reference can be found by a reader. I have fixed that, but if you add more references please use the right url. I have removed some of the tags, but the additional references and the reorganization problems still have to be addressed. Most of the references you used, as I'm sure you've already been told, are not exactly reliable, and there are some segments which are completely unsourced. I've tried to find sources myself, and I noticed that there is a lack of available sources about Sergio Franchi, but Wikipedia's policies are very clear about reliable sources.

Other important issues are the structure and the tone of the article. The songs seem to be divided in a somewhat arbitrary and subjective way. In order to fix that drawing inspiration from Featured discography articles is probably a good idea. About the tone, the article shouldn't refer to itself. Try to rephrase all sentences like "This lists contains"" or "the basic purpose of the list is to...", and delete indications like "notes included".

A tip: don't be annoyed by tags, they are the best way to let other editors know an article needs some help. The article is not perfect, but it's on his way, it just needs some work. Have fun with it! Zidanie5 (talk) 16:23, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Hello Zidanies5: Thank you for your very helpful review. Regarding the bare URLs, thanks for fixing. A picture is worth a 1000 words, and the your info in the references is very helpful. Regarding specific pages, the help section on references stated that I DID Not have to be that specific (Eg. If I got a person to the gemm.com website, I did not have to input "Sergio Franch" on the reference. At least that was my reading.
 * Any way, I believe I have now included a reference for every single statement requiring one. There are no unreliable references left...I don't think.
 * Regarding the structure and tone of the article. The discogrphy of Sergio Franchi reflects the physical structure of several of the featured discographies listed by Chzz above. I followed your example and separated used a sub-section for Notes on all of the main sections.
 * Regarding the songs, however, I must disagree that they sre divided in an arbitrary way. However, I refined the text avove divisions to be more succinct. Italian and Neapolitan recordings are of Italian origin. Show Tunes are self explanatory, especially when the source is given. The Ballads are leftovers. Christmas and religious are eplained.
 * I would appreciate one more review to see if the Layout and Reliabllity tags can be removed. Many Thanks, CatherineCathlec (talk) 22:09, 28 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Cathlec, I do not know which particular help page you are referring to, but as a rule of thumb it's always better to provide more information to the readers, so that they can verify a statement. I believe you have misread, help pages can be quite confusing on Wikipedia! It's always better to have another user help out. About references, yes, most of what needed a source now has one, well done! References still need to be improved, though, in my opinion. All those that link to pages in which a person sells the album, are not very reliable sources. Please note that you can remove the tags yourself if you think they don't apply anymore, feel free to do so! About structure, I still think their division is not great. I'm not saying that you put songs in the wrong "categories", what I mean is that they're not coherent: one category is about language/origin, one is about content, one is about genre, and one is about medium. I don't see an easy solution to the problem, but it's not a major one anyways.
 * I'll keep an eye on the article, and try to continue helping out. Please, don't take my suggestions in the wrong way, it's not criticism, it's the best process, and the usual one, to improve an article! Maybe no one told you "good job" yet, in any case, good job with your article! Especially for topics with little available information like Sergio Franchi, it is both difficult and precious to create an article on Wikipedia, hence know that your contributions are appreciated even when some issue is pointed out. Zidanie5 (talk) 01:03, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks again, Zidanie5, and welcome to Wikipedia. We are lucky to have you. However, I still believe I have categorized the songs in a perfectly acceptable way. But then, as Wikipedia says on the help re discographies, every discography is unique! Appreciate your feedback and explanations. Regarding information from sources selling albums: I agree in principle, but there are no online catalogues by RCA Victor, except for 44-xxxx series of 45 rpms. Per your support, I am removing the tags at the top of the article. I am not sure what the last change you made to the article (Spurrious references) but I don't know how to display changes to articles. By the way, is Wikipedia time on Greenwich Mean Time? Thanks again, CatherineCathlec (talk) 01:19, 29 October 2011 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. Well, disagreeing is a good thing, and you're right about discographies being unique! Re:sources I've searched for sources myself, and I realized there are not many information out there about Sergio Franchi, sadly, but please, keep trying to improve the article, Wikipedia is a work in progress, and there's no deadline! Re: your last edit, links within Wikipedia are not External Links, they're wikilinks, and when you add them, use the "preview" button to check if they bring you to disambiguation pages (Yesterday, for example, brings you here, not to the specific song you want to link. Re: timezone, I think it depends on your timezone, but I'm not sure. Re: how to check changes, you just need to go to View History, and select the revisions you want to compare, and then click "Compare selected revisions". You'll get to a page like this one (which shows you the changes I've made with my two edits). Once you're there, you can also click on "Revision as of hh:mm, dd Month yyyy" to see how an old version of the page looked like. Well, have fun with your article, what counts most is that users enjoy editing!

PS: Why welcome to Wikipedia? I'm not exactly new ^^ Zidanie5 (talk) 01:45, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Well Zidanie5, sorry if I upset you by saying "welcome." Your user page says although you have helped Wikipedia many times, you decided to make a user page (dated October 15, 2011) Also your talk page gives a "Welcome" to you on October 7, 2011. Sorry if I have misinterpreted? Also, thanks for pointing out the link to "Yesterday" goes to disambig page. Thought I corrected that. Appreciate the info on how to compare changes. And by the way, I do consider the discography page to be a work in progress. But I will probably give it less attention now, because my next project is a complete revision and update on the main page for Sergio Franchi's biography. I have many more resources for this project. Seeing as how you are in Italy, perhaps you could recommend a link to Italian news or articles about Sergio Franchi in the period 1958-1962. I get nowhere with Google on this one. I would like to end with a question, so I do not misunderstand. How should I treat the stub article when doing a major revision? Do my revisions on the page, and leave open to problems while I am creating the new article? Create the new article like I did on the discopgaphy as a work in progress? Would appreciate your suggestion as to how I can avoid problems while the revision is in progress. Thanks, CatherineCathlec (talk) 17:07, 29 October 2011 (UTC)


 * As I said on my talk page, you didn't upset me, I was just curious. There are two dates on my userpage, I have this account since October 2009. That's right, nobody welcomed me for two years, only on October 7 this year someone remembered! Anyways, about Sergio Franchi revision, it really is up to you, you can add your changes little by little in the Sergio Franchi article, or you can write it in your sandbox and only move it to mainspace when it's done. About sources, the problem is that the archives of major Italian newspapers span 1984-present and 1992-present. I've tried to search the archives for Sergio Franchi, but with no luck. Good luck with your articles! Zidanie5 (talk) 17:26, 29 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia's default time-zone is UTC which is the effectively the same as GMT (except for leap-seconds).
 * However, users can change how the time is displayed in preferences.  Chzz  ► 02:27, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Sergio Franchi biography
I have contributed monthly for the last several months to your requests for funds. Also, I have been brave enough to start my second article...which I have been reserching for several months. I am VERY upset that one of your arrogant editors had deleted two section of my article in progress. I do not agree thaqt a "Personal Interests" section or information on "Family life" which was well researched and referenced are "tabloid" in nature. This is the type of Arrogance which discourages new editors from trying to get through your cliquish group. I need help in how to resolve this matter, and be able to finish my article without interference! Cathlec (talk) 01:20, 24 December 2011 (UTC)


 * His hobbies and interests are not suitable material for an encyclopedia. --BwB (talk) 10:31, 24 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Again, I completely disagee with you that any information I included under Hobbies and Interests is unsuitable. I merely categorized it. Obviously, you do not understand what an important classic car collection Sergio Franchi possessed; the references made that clear. . It was quite as important as was John Denver's collection of airplanes. I left you a reply regarding hobbies and personal life on your talk page. I will state here again, politeness should have included some reasoning besides your own opinion..which is no more important than mine.Cathlec (talk) 17:33, 26 December 2011 (UTC)


 * "My article" - while you may have written substantial parts of this article, it is not "yours". Wiki is a collaborative effort and other editors are welcome to contribute, edit, delete and change it to have it comply with Wiki policies and style. --BwB (talk) 10:36, 24 December 2011 (UTC)


 * True, "Bigweeboy," The article on Sergio Franchi (which I am in the process of writing) is not "Mime" in the classic sense. I completely understand, and accept Wikipedia's premise. However, I am the one doing the writing, have done all of the research, collected the sources to make it the article reliable, took the time to learn HTML so I could write the material, and must take creative responsibility for the articles contents! When the article is finished, I fully anticipated taking part in review and discussion about "the article." What is completely objectionable is your rude intrusion into the article as it is being written. A courteous thing to do would have been to leave a discussion point on my talk page, or on the article talk page, instead of just jumping in and deleting almost 2,000 words of "the" work in progress. As I have said elsewhere, and on your talk page, my opinions and my judgement is at least as important as yours, and merits respect!


 * As above. Content on Wikipedia has to be encyclopedic in nature, and if an admin has stated it isn't... then it probably isn't. In the meantime you may be able to ask an admin to transfer the deleted page into userspace (like one of your userpages) so you can edit it there and see if it's suitable before you put it in the main namespace again. -- andy4789 ★ ·  (talk?   contribs?)  MerryXmas! 15:37, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comments Andy4789. I am not aware that Bigweeboy is an administrator, and beleve he is just another editor.

I was asked about this too; my own brief opinion is, a) nothing is actually "lost" - it can be seen in the history; b) I think some (probably most) of the info removed with the two edits   is probably not suitable for inclusion. But some is. So, c) discuss it on Talk:Sergio Franchi, and d) if you cannot agree, see WP:DISPUTE. Most importantly, remember that there's no deadline, and simply discuss it with the other editor(s).
 * Thanks for your comments, and the fact that you believe some of the information was suitable. Again, what I was upset about was the arbitrary removal of almost 2,000 words of an article in progress.. with no talk, no suggestions..Thanks again.

The key part to that, Cathlec, is: people often disagree about what should/shouldn't be included. The solution is, just talk about it on the article discussion page. Start a new section on Talk:Sergio Franchi Simply saying "I think we should add THIS, for THESE REASONS. Keep calm and polite, see what others think. And if you can't come to agreement, there are all kinds of ways to get help resolving it. Best,  Chzz  ► 14:09, 26 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your comments, Chzz. I appreciated your help and comments on my first article. I am stating now that I think the section on Hobbies and interests should be included.. especially about his important classic car collection... for the reasons stated above. I also believe the information deleted about his faily life should be restored. It is merely demographic, but I am willing to make it shorter. Many biographies on Wikipedia start with father and mother demographics, but since this information is not available for Franchi, I included what was available. I am mainly asking for polite non-interference while I am writng. I can accept constructive comments, but I would appreciate them more when the article is more complete. I will add this material and comments on [Talk:Sergio Franchi]]. Thanks againCathlec (talk) 17:33, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Citation format
Hello, Perhaps this example will help clarify it: Enclosing the url and a title with [ ] means the url is not displayed and the reader can see the title instead. (there are also more complex ways of doing this.) --Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 16:16, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks Felix, Gotcha! CatherineCathlec (talk) 23:32, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Sergio Franchi navigational box
I do maintenance of the within the report of Database reports/Template categories containing articles. When a regular article is added into a category for templates, it gets flagged. I fix them by removing them and moving on to the next error. After six months of editing, I would think you would have noticed that no one puts navigational boxes directly into articles like you did. Navigational boxes are added to articles as templates. You can create your template by clicking this: Sergio Franchi. However, do not include any unlinked items; that is, albums or anything else that does not have an article. A navigational box is for navigation from one article to the next, not a complete discography. --Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars (talk) 21:26, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Guidance on how and where navigational boxes should be used can be found at WP:NAVBOX. For assistance in creating them and how they should look, there is the essay at WP:NAV. And it looks like you have already found models to use in Category:American musicians templates. I've gone ahead and created the template Sergio Franchi from what you had added into the individual articles with small modifications and hiding all the items in the list that don't currently have articles. This way they are there if you create any of those articles. The reason you create templates like this is so you don't have to put them in multiple articles because then they all have to be updated if they are changed. Now, if you update the template, it will automatically be updated in each article that the template is in. And I don't have a user page because I prefer the anonymity of not revealing anything about myself outside of my edit history and talk page discussions. --Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars (talk) 01:49, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I've re-added the template Sergio Franchi (which Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars has very kindly made for you) to Sergio Franchi, Sergio Franchi discography, and Sergio Franchi filmography. I also hid the commentary which you placed in a section, as has another editor for another section (those kinds of notes should not be visible in the article), and moved the See also section to where it belongs (the last section before References). By "hiding" your comment, I mean that we surrounded it with:
 * It makes the comment invisible to the reader, but appears in the editing box when someone goes to edit the article. You mentioned in your note to me that an "authorized person" had removed your templates. Just a reminder that there are no "authorized" editors. Everyone and anyone, including unregistered users, can edit any article, apart from the few that have been temporarily protected by administrators due to repeated vandalism or edit-warring. Voceditenore (talk) 07:08, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
 * It makes the comment invisible to the reader, but appears in the editing box when someone goes to edit the article. You mentioned in your note to me that an "authorized person" had removed your templates. Just a reminder that there are no "authorized" editors. Everyone and anyone, including unregistered users, can edit any article, apart from the few that have been temporarily protected by administrators due to repeated vandalism or edit-warring. Voceditenore (talk) 07:08, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

To Voceditenore, and Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars, Thank you both very much! You have both made valuble contributions to my editing skills. Thanks also for your improvements to the related articles.CatherineCathlec (talk) 14:24, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Using Sergio Franchi Images
Wiki Commons says this is "Easy" anyone can do it! I am in need of some serious help here. I uploaded 8 images on the Commons yesterday, and I believe that at least seven of them are in the public domain, being publicity photos published before 1977 (Date?) without a copyright notice. One of the images I believe to be fair use as no other image of this deceased person exist to make use in Franchi's filmography., and it is a low resolution image. I have done a LOT of reading, on Commons, and I find it all to be VERY confusing and mysterious. I first got Bot messages there was no license. I changed and tried to enter a "{{PD-US-no notice))" template, and was told this was not a license..just a template. In doing some further reading I have also been confused about whether I should post the images through Wipipedia, and not on the Commons. I have the feeling I could be spinning my wheels for years wading through this. Is there an editor or administrator that can provide guidance in the mechanics of this process? Thanks CatherineCathlec (talk) 15:40, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Went to live help link and was told my images should be OK. Good to know about the live help link. Thanks, Wikipedia,Cathlec (talk) 16:11, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Franchi
Franchio did not become an American citizen until he was 46. He should be in the Italian categories for sure.John Pack Lambert (talk) 23:19, 11 November 2013 (UTC) I disagree. Age should not make a difference.CatherineCathlec (talk) 23:22, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, he declared his intention to become American citizen soon after he arrived (age 36). He was in the USA 28 years, longer than the 24 years he was in Italy (age 1-21 and 1959-1962).Cathlec (talk) 19:44, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Your submission at AfC List of songs recorded by Sergio Franchi was accepted
 List of songs recorded by Sergio Franchi, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created. The article has been assessed as List-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article. You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. . Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia! Kevin Rutherford (talk) 04:45, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
 * If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk.
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Learning to be a more effective Wikipedia editor
If you enjoy being a more effective Wikipedia etitor, as you state on your page, then you need to respect that Wikipedia is a community. No article belongs to anyone, regardless how much someone has contributed. The article you have contributed to extensively on, about Sergio Franchi, is not necessarily researched poorly. The problem that everyone has with it is that you clearly have a great liking for the man. Terms like "The Franchi star ascends in 1963" and "this insidious disease finally won" are not phrases that belong in an encyclopedia. They are humanized, emotional terms. If you keep refusing to accept that anything you've done is not proper, you will continue to fight the whole world. The difference between how you've written, and how an encyclopedia article should be written, can be illustrated below;

This is the wikipedia article on the famous music producer David Foster. This is the press release about him from his own website.

Both are factual, but they are not the same.

YouarelovedSOmuch (talk) 22:29, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

To YouarelovedSOmuch] Thanks for your informative critique. However the last five lines are all that was necessary to make your point! It took me a while to realize that you and the 3 other editors who posted templates wish to remain anonymous..However, the pseudo-editor names like yours are derogatory in nature and also contain unnecessary emotional terms. I accept your critique that my article "reads like a story." In defense I am the only person who has written an article about Sergio Franchi, I did set out to write a biography. I believe I can improve on the article. In spite of the fact that I spent 18 months researching this article And learning how to write Wikipedia articles, I completely accept the fact that I donated my time and accept the Wikipedia tenants for editors. Will try to revise the article as soon as possible. Thanks, Catherine [[User:Cathlec|Cathlec (talk) 00:48, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

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