User talk:Cavarrone/Archive 13

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Quoted
I've quoted you in my recent evidence statement at ArbCom here. Due to word limitations, I only quoted a part of your statement. I hope it is ok with you. If you think I am misquoting you or that I misunderstood your point, please let me know and I'll refactor what I wrote or strike the quote out. As someone subject to being misquoted, I certainly don't want to do it myself to anyone. (To be clear, you are not a party and you are in no danger of being sanctioned for anything). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 11:54, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

The Two Parachutists
Hi Cavarrone,

I think you might help me with something concerning this 1965 Fulci fim. Here is my question: was it filmed in black and white? I had in mind it was and stills I see on the Internet would tend to confirm this. However, photos on the cover of the DVD (that I see on the Web, too) are coloured but they seem colourised. For what it's worth, the p. on frWP states (an unsourced statement though) that it was one of the last Italian films to be shot in black and white. If you don't know or don't have time or interest, no worries. Thank you all the same. Yours, — PS- I had opened a thread on FILMOS TP about a more general question (extensionally but not intensionally, that is) involving other Fulci films and I will leave a note there too (or I might take it to the main Project TP), in case someone knows. MY, OH, MY ! 12:30, 8 April 2023 (UTC)


 * @Mushy Yank, I just checked Il Mereghetti, according to Paolo Mereghetti it is black and white, and I tend to trust him. Cavarrone 21:26, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot. That's most helpful. Best. — MY, OH, MY ! 21:41, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Combate
Hi, Per MOS:TVNOW, all TV shows are referred to in the present tense. Please do not change "is" to "was" on any TV show article as you did in this edit. Thank you. Donald D23  talk to me  18:49, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

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Adding image of deceased actress.
Hi there. I noticed you uploaded an image of Annette McCarthy from Twin Peaks under fair use rationale:. I'm trying to do the same for Wings actress Farrah Forke but I couldn't see that rationale in Wikipedia commons and it said fair use wasn't allowed there. Is there another way to upload the image like you did for Annettee? Would you be able to do it for me or tell me how to do it? You'll see the image I tried to upload here:  Thank you! 2001:BB6:4E52:7D00:98F2:8381:BEFB:1E7A (talk) 09:33, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Have now read WP:UNSOURCEDYET
I see it is part of an essay not a policy so does not stop me PRODing anything. However you are of course free to unPROD for any or no reason Chidgk1 (talk) 11:03, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

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Shelley Smith (actress)
If you're going to work on that article... I already made a semi-protected edit request to add her second husband Michael Maguire (actor) to the infobox rather than keep the implication she only married Reid Nathan. Maguire's Facebook video announcing her death is the source used by the Hollywood Reporter article used as the source for her death and it references her children by Nathan. 108.29.145.226 (talk) 22:09, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

File:Akiko Yano My Neighbors the Yamadas.jpg listed for discussion
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ani
Hey, Cavarrone!

You posted:

"An IBAN is not punishment. It may feel like it to the IBANned editor, but it's purely to prevent the behavior from continuing", I could say the same about a block: "a block is not punishment. It may feel like it to the blocked editor, but it's purely to prevent the behavior from continuing". None of the editors who support a (more or less brief) block here wants to "punish" TIG, we want him to read WP:CIVIL and adhere to it in in his future interactions. With respect, characterizing his long-term problematic behaviour as "a series of similar mistakes in short order" by "a well-intentioned, competent editor" goes exactly in the opposite direction and IMO sends the wrong message to the user.
 * Correct. A block is not punishment and should be imposed to prevent further disruption. But blocks should be the least restrictive that will help to solve a problem, and a time-limited full block does not force an editor to address an issue, and at the same time it prevents that editor from doing the things they do that aren't problematic, so it both doesn't solve the problem and isn't the least restrictive solution.
 * IMO we need to see how TIG responds to an IBAN, which is almost surely coming. And I'm not averse to someone deciding they also need to be indeffed for the civility issues; I just don't think it needs to be imposed by the community, which means it can only be appealed to the community, which is a pretty huge obstacle. I also don't think the fact TIG has a behavior problem they haven't addressed yet necessarily means they aren't a well-intentioned competent editor. Valereee (talk) 19:55, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

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License tagging for File:E dirsi ciao.jpg
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En.Wiki e it.wiki su "attacco personale"
Caro Cavarrone, spero che questo messaggio non ti disturbi - se ti disturba, annullalo e mandami pure a quel paese. Da un paio di mesi mi sono appassionato a scrivere un blog su faccende (italo)wikipediane, "Wikipedate". Se vuoi darci un'occhiata e farmi sapere la tua opinione, mi fa piacere. Ma la ragione per cui ti scrivo è che nell'ultimo post ho azzardato una comparazione tra la prassi italiana e quella inglese in tema di WP:NPA: lo trovi qui. Non sono del tutto sicuro che quel che ho scritto sia accurato... potrei aver ecceduto in "esterofilia". Se tu prima o poi (non c'è nessuna fretta) trovassi il tempo di darci un'occhiata e di correggere qualche errore, ti sarei molto riconoscente. Ciao, Gitz (talk) (contribs) 17:32, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

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Precious anniversary
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:54, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

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 * Hi there, since the cover you uploaded features both the series from 1982 and the series from 2012 (which are addressed in separate articles), I have replaced it with a less ambiguous cover that only shows the characters and logo relevant to the article.
 * I hope you don't mind.
 * Kind regards. Thibaut (talk) 17:30, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Edward Hulewicz


The article Edward Hulewicz has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern: "This article was brought up in an AFD discussion about another article which caused me to look it over and judge that it doesn't meet WP:NMUSIC as we expect musicians and singers to demonstrate."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Liz Read! Talk! 05:49, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

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"The Lathe of Heaven (film" listed at Redirects for discussion
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Invitation to join New pages patrol
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Luigi Kuveiller
The "nonsense" tag which you removed had become obsolete, yes – after I referenced and corrected grammar in an article which in its previous form was not in a good state. Robert Kerber (talk) 09:51, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

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Review request
Hey man, what's up? I saw you've approved my page about Quelli che benpensano: thank you! Could you please be so kind as to review other pages I created and, if you want, moving them to the mainspace? They are sourced and everything, but it looks like other users keep on rejecting them. Thank you in advance! Have a nice evening, 82.84.225.97 (talk) 18:32, 7 April 2024 (UTC)


 * I moved "Destri" to the mainspace after some improvements. I just looked at "Sbucciami", not sure it's notable for en.wiki. About "Poetica", the song is notable but there is a way too much "heated" discussion as for my tastes to moving it. A few suggestions: focus on secondary sourcing, search for "recensione"/"recensioni" as to find reviews, sometimes even "opinione/i" is helpful but could be tricky (it depends from the source). Care about a proper reference formatting (i.e. use cite news when appropriate, indicate author and source, link them if notable, like here), if you create an account there are great addons like Provelt that can help you. Avoid sources like iTunes, Discogs, Spotify, databases, personal websites, interviews, they don't help your cause and their use just conveys a bad impression of the entire article. Absolutely avoid unsourced sections like "personell", you shoot yourself in the foot with them, they add almost nothing meaningful to the page and just annoy reviewers, there will be time if the page is moved to eventually source/add them. And don't edit war: if a reviewer add/remove some stuff, whatever you agree or not with it, let it go. Cavarrone 10:04, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot for the interest and the suggestions! About Sbucciami: well, actually it doesn't really lack sources (I've seen other articles having less than that)... About Poetica, I'm gonna delete the "personnel", but as for the rest, I think the song's "notable" and to be honest, it really seems like some users are searching any possible excuse to reject my articles. As you see, one of the users who is waging a war about Poetica is the same who had rejected Destri, which you have considered notable. I don't know why I'm getting this kind of "firewall", but I'm tired of that and I don't have time to lose with this kind of things.
 * Yeah, I don't want to edit war either, but I find it absurd that, if an user has asked me to add one thing, and I add that, one other throws criticism at me "perché sì". It's pretty clear that, no matter how I edit that, they'll always find something to label it as "not suitable", and that's why I'm asking help to reasonable users like you.
 * Please, could you revise my Draft:Waking Up (MJ Cole and Freya Ridings song) too? And if you want, also Draft: Something for the Weekend (Ben Westbeech song)? Thanks a lot!
 * P.S.: Are you Italian? 82.84.225.97 (talk) 16:01, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Sì, italiano. Something for the Weekend non mi sembra possa passare i criteri, le fonti non sono buone, non riesco ad aprire il link di musicsite.it, music.apple.com è il tipo di fonti da evitare assolutamente e la coppia EarOne/ studiocentrale.it si basa sullo stesso comunicato stampa del produttore (fonte primaria, e non indipendente). Per quanto riguarda Waking Up, è al limite, probabilmente il recensore ha ritenuto inaffidabili i siti web utilizzati (non li conosco, ma guardando le pagine di recordoftheday.com e acidstag.com, francamente non sembrano vere recensioni professionali per cui probabilmente ha ragione). Sbucciami, è borderline, darò un'occhiata se riesco a trovare qualcosa di più significativo che tagli la testa al toro per poterla spostare (peraltro ho creato io la pagina su Malgioglio in questa wiki). Riguardo a Poetica, che come detto ritengo notable, non so cosa intendesse il recensore riguardo a "more information about the creative process of the song" ma non credo che intendesse (lunghe) citazioni di interviste. Sono d'accordo con te che quelle parti in ultima analisi potessero rimanere lì, ma credo che la loro eliminazione sia più un messaggio per te, cioè "questo non è il tipo di contenuti che devi inserire, concentrati su qualcos'altro". Fossi in te annullerei al più presto il tuo annullamento e chissene frega delle citazioni (se non "chissene frega di quel draft"). Mettersi a fare delle edit war con degli amministratori è un buon modo per suicidarsi. Cavarrone 17:08, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Oh, menomale! Almeno possiamo parlare nella nostra lingua. Innanzitutto, ti ringrazio per la risposta. Allora, come ti dicevo prima, ho visto che quegli stessi utenti poi hanno iniziato a bocciare tutte le mie draft, e sempre con le stesse (assurde) motivazioni. Sinceramente, la guerra mi sembra proprio che la stiano facendo loro, e non capisco cos'abbiano contro le mie pagine (per inciso, non capisco cos'abbiano alcuni admin contro la creazione di nuove pagine in generale). Il fatto è che vogliono tutti cose diverse, chiedono tutto e il contrario di tutto e onestamente, mi sembra un comportamento abbastanza pretestuoso, tanto più che per altre pagine gli stessi discorsi non sempre sembrano valere (ma può anche darsi che alcune pagine possano essere state create prima che ci fosse una maggiore "attenzione"). Pensa che uno di questi utenti mi ha annullato una modifica, con fonte, perché a suo avviso era "poorly sourced" (convinto lui)... A me il messaggio in codice sembra più "noi siamo gli admin, siamo i padroni della tanca, tu non sei nemmeno registrato, quindi comandiamo noi e tu stai zitto". Comunque guarda, in realtà fosse per me avrei già lasciato perdere, è giusto che un po' mi spiace buttare via il lavoro fatto su quelle pagine.
 * Per quanto riguarda Malgioglio, ah, non sapevo l'avessi creata tu! Bene ahahah! Per "Sbucciami", se te la senti va bene, altrimenti non fa niente, tranquillo.
 * Per quanto riguarda l'aver citato Apple music, quello è solamente per la sezione tracklist.
 * Riguardo la fonte di cui mi hai parlato, in effetti non sei l'unico ad avermi detto di non essere riuscito a aprirla! Non so, se vuoi ti copio il testo qui.
 * Per "Waking Up", ti assicuro che ci sono non so quanti siti che ne parlano, io ne ho citato solo alcuni... Da nessuna parte è stato detto che la revisione doveva essere necessariamente "professionale", ma anche volendo, comunque ne ho inserito anche di quelle. Se "Waking Up" viene accettata, poi comunque si può ampliare anche in seguito (si etichetta come "stub" e via). Comunque la pagina soddisfa i requisiti, e in fondo (sempre guardando quanto avviene per altre pagine) non c'è bisogno di citare mille siti se alla fine in tanti dicono la stessa cosa... Per "Poetica", direi che il processo creativo della canzone, non può spiegarlo nessuno meglio dell'autore... 82.84.225.97 (talk) 18:02, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
 * A proposito! Volendo, ci sarebbe anche questa, a cui ho appena sistemato le fonti: Draft:Wave Goodbye (adesso punta a Billboard e CMJ, voglio vedere se dicono che non è notevole neanche così...) 82.84.225.97 (talk) 18:30, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Per Poetica (oltre che IMO a monte una valutazione sbagliata sull'enciclopedicità), credo che semplicemente ti abbiano dato il suggerimento sbagliato o mal spiegato, come ho detto neanch'io capisco cosa intendesse il revisore, non è che una voce si debba giudicare sulla base dell'inclusione di un fantomatico "processo creativo". Nella voce musicale più lunga che ho scritto, 4/3/1943, di processo creativo ho scritto forse mezza riga ("The song was composed by Dalla and Pallottino  during a trip to the Tremiti Islands"), non t'incaponire su questa cosa. La colpa è più di quel revisore e del suo suggerimento sballato che di quelli che sono venuti dopo, perché in base ai criteri loro hanno ragione nel dire che le interviste sono fonti primarie e non contano in termini di enciclopedicità. Anche altri commenti lasciati dai revisori sono discutibili (per esempio il "completely lacks proper secondary sourcing" su Poetica, quando un po' di secondary sourcing sicuramente c'è), mentre altri sono sicuramente corretti anche se spesso vaghi. In generale il mondo delle draft ha degli standard molto più alti del normale, a volte contraddittori, altre volte soggettivi, per essere sicuri di passare devono essere non stub ma start tendenti al C-class come minimo e con fonti inoppugnabili, e poi purtroppo quando le voci vengono bocciate in prima istanza diventa ancora più difficile che i revisori successivi le accettino. Se io dovessi creare pagine attraverso quel meccanismo mi romperei dopo una settimana. Però visto che tu vuoi creare le pagine attraverso quella strada devi accettare le regole, cioè abbondanza di "significant coverage in reliable sources" prima di tutto, anche per le canzoni multi-platino che arrivano al primo o secondo posto in classifica. Fonti secondarie vuol dire niente interviste, niente comunicati stampa/press releases, niente siti ufficiali/di produttori/di venditori, possibilmente niente articoli di routine. Reliable, quindi niente blog o siti fai da te. Invece punta su recensioni, analisi, fonti librarie. Cerca le fonti prima di creare i draft, così non perdi tempo dietro a voci che poi non riesci a fontare. Le fonti devono essere anche "significant coverage", cioè anche se Billboard e CMJ sono ottime fonti, 2 righe (e in qualche caso 2 parole) all'interno di una notizia o di una recensione più ampia dell'album non sono abbastanza. Creare pagine sulle canzoni non è facile come sembra, infatti io stesso ho creato moolte meno pagine su canzoni di quante avrei voluto. Su Wikipedia devi accettare di inghiottire bocconi amari, è così per tutti. Cavarrone  19:24, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Grazie per i consigli e l'interessamento! Sì, tutta la questione di "Poetica" non ha senso, e come ti ho scritto, l'intento mi sembra più quello di trovare ogni scusa possibile per rifiutare il draft. Grazie, mi fa piacere che anche tu riconosca che alcuni commenti lasciati sul draft siano a dir poco discutibili! Ma del resto, l'intenzione di alcuni utenti si è ben capita. Ora un altro utente ha chiesto di cambiare una cosa perché l'articolo sia più NPOV: l'ho fatto, vediamo se gli va bene così. Per quanto riguarda "Sbucciami", se ti va di occupartene, lascio a te (ma se non ti va, nessun problema!). Comunque sì, è un assurdo che per creare una pagina su una canzone ci vogliano 150mila link, anche perché poi ogni utente ha il suo concetto di ciò che ritiene che sia "notable" (e a volte non ne trovi due che siano d'accordo l'uno con l'altro), e spesso, anche se gli metti mille fonti, la rifiutano comunque e non si capisce cos'altro caspita vogliano per considerarla "notable"; quindi lì devi aspettare che si palesi un utente un minimo più ragionevole che non si attacchi a ogni virgola. 82.84.225.97 (talk) 17:22, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Ti chiedo gentilmente una cortesia: per favore, potresti accettare "Wave Goodbye" e "Waking Up"? Sulla seconda ho aggiunto ulteriore materiale (naturalmente, tutto fontato); sulla prima, al limite poi qualcuno ci aggiungerà un avviso del tipo "inserire più fonti" ecc., ma intanto almeno sarà nel mainspace. Grazie mille da ora! Buona serata! :) 82.84.225.97 (talk) 17:27, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Dipende da chi fa la revisione... teoricamente basterebbero 2 fonti buone. Su Poetica però non la vedo bene, perche la situazione si è incarognita. Io non mi occupo granchè di revisioni, dò giusto un'occhiata ai draft che vedo su User:AlexNewArtBot/ItalySearchResult, però situazioni come Poetica o Quelli che benpensano ne ho viste anche altre. Diciamo che per i draft si richiede spesso un livello molto superiore rispetto alle pagine create da utenti registrati, e lo spirito collaborativo latita (i revisori spesso preferiscono bocciare i draft che sistemare due righe o aggiungere loro una fonte, oppure citano delle policy senza però spiegarle). Riguardo a queste richieste di spostamenti ti prego di non farmele, specie in questa maniera esplicita, ora dovessi fare quei due spostamententi mi faresti passare per uno che sposta i draft come "cortesie" e non in base all'enciclopedicità, al massimo chiedimi di dare un'occhiata e io valuto, ma così mi metti in difficoltà, sarebbe una forma di proxy editing per cui sarei sanzionabile, rischierei di finire di corsa su WP:ANI e sostanzialmente mi metterei nei guai. Peraltro "Wave Goodbye" avevo già notato l'altro giorno che non sarei tecnicamente possibilitato a spostarla in quanto la sua casella sul mainspace è attualmente occupata da un redirect e per spostarla dovrei avere la funzione di mover che non ho. Cavarrone 18:05, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Grazie per la risposta! Riguardo la prima parte del tuo messaggio: sì, assolutamente sì, hai colto il punto in pieno. L'utente non registrato spesso viene visto dai revisori come "l'invasore da cacciare" (alla faccia dell'"enciclopedia libera e collaborativa"!). A tal proposito, ho avuto problemi anche sulla wiki italiana, che se te li racconto ti metti le mani in testa... Riguardo le richieste che ti ho fatto: no, non passerebbe come favore personale, in quanto le pagine di cui ti ho parlato citano fonti in abbondanza (solo "Waking Up", ad esempio, ne conta più di dieci, tutte regolari), quindi sarebbe solo una questione di buonsenso ed è per questo che mi sono rivolto a te; peraltro, prima di chiederti di approvarle, ti ho invitato a revisionarle regolarmente in modo neutro: tu ne hai confermato l'enciclopedicità, e solo a quel punto ti ho posto la domanda diretta. Quindi non ho fatto nulla di male :)
 * In merito a "Wave Goodbye": grazie, non lo sapevo. In tal caso, potresti provare a parlare con l'utente che mi ha lasciato il messaggio in merito al redirect (lui credo che sia mover), nel caso se ti va ti posto il suo user. Grazie! 82.84.225.97 (talk) 16:10, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Ripeto, dopo che mi fai richieste esplicite del tipo Ti chiedo gentilmente una cortesia: per favore, potresti accettare "Wave Goodbye" e "Waking Up" mi astengo per quieto vivere, anche se la pagina avesse 10 fonti del livello della Treccani e dell'Enciclopedia Britannica. Non ti offendere. So abbastanza bene come funziona en.wikipedia per ritenere che sia molto meglio evitare, e sto salvaguardando anche te, fidati. Peraltro come sai bene se giudico che una pagina sia enciclopedica e più o meno pronta, non ho bisogno di farmelo chiedere come favore di spostarla, la sposto e la miglioro. Piuttosto, mai pensato a questo? Fossi nei tuoi panni l'avrei fatto millenni fa. Cavarrone 16:34, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

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Donald Martiny
Hi, Cavarrone, you linked Pino Pinelli, but is not the right link! Guiseppe Pinelli was an anarchist and not a painter! I hereby undoe your post, but will then add the link to Bram Bogart again. Kind regards, Naomi Hennig (talk) 13:18, 12 May 2024 (UTC)