User talk:Cavarrone/Archive 2

More information needed about File:The Flower in His Mouth.jpg
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Lina Polito
As a Biography of a Living person, your article clearly is lacking indication of notability, being extremely short and needing more references, 2 or 3 is not enough. Im not edit warring, Im just placing those tags there to alert people that the article needs attention for its improvement. I do not wish for it to be deleted, just improved. Aunty-S (talk) 10:49, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Lina Polito for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Lina Polito is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Lina Polito until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Aunty-S (talk) 01:06, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Alessio Jim Della Valle
To quote Blpprod, "To place a BLPPROD tag, the process requires that the article contain no sources in any form (as references, external links, etc.), which support any statements made about the person in the biography. Please note that this is a different criterion than is used for sources added after the placement of the tag." (emphasis added)

There has to be NO sources in order to place a BLPprod tag. A personal website and imdb are not reliable sources, but are sources.

If a BLPprod has been placed on an article and then an IMDb sources is added, the BLPprod tag is not removed because no reliable source was added. Bgwhite (talk) 06:06, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

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Creature Character/Creature Character Performer article creation?
Thanks for your comment and support on the AfD for Douglas Tait. I mentioned to another editor who commented and who is really well versed in horror movies; that this area of film performance, called creature character work, is well known among fans of the genre and the film industry, but not so widely known elsewhere. I had thought about writing articles on them. Seeing the staggering list of articles you have already created, you would be a great editor to help create these articles. Any interest? Thanks! X4n6 (talk) 21:06, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the offer, but not for now. I'm actually focusing on Italian cinema, and there is still a lot of work to be done in this area. Regards, Cavarrone (talk) 06:52, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I certainly can't fault you for your interest in Italian cinema. I can only say that you are incredibly ambitious, because there is obviously SO MUCH there! Sorry you don't have time to help me on these articles, but I totally understand. Perhaps down the road... But best of luck on your latest focus. While it's certainly not my area, please don't hesitate to drop a note if there is any assistance I can offer. I can fake a working knowledge of Gina Lollobrigida, Ezio Pinza, Claudia Cardinale, Sophia Loren, Carlo Ponti and Rossano Brazzi with the best of them. After that, I fold! Thanks again for considering it. Best, X4n6 (talk) 10:50, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Speed Racer X.jpg
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Douglas Tait
Hello, I wonder if you would reevaluate your keep on the Douglas Tait AfD (or at least address why else you think it is still a keep, if you do) in light of the fact that it looks like Canyonn News sells "news" article profiles (here at the bottom of page). Happy editing! Novaseminary (talk) 02:18, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
 * mmmm, you're true, there's a possibility the interview is a paid article, anyway aside the sources I'm still convinced the subject passes WP:ENT#1. Thanks for the info. Regards, Cavarrone (talk) 06:46, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
 * If you'd like, please feel free to review my "RESPONSE" to the above editor's challenges to the "Canyon News" source. You may also find what has happened since your particular comment, to be very instructive. I would certainly welcome your input. Thanks! Best, X4n6 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:05, 11 March 2012 (UTC).

Thank you for the great honour!
Thank you for the Barnstar for the Maciste film!!! I guess my goal is to get people to realise that these films were made for adult audiences and not to be seen in edited and faded prints.BTW, I see if you've done quite a few things on Italian cinema of the 60s. Do you know anything about Pamela Tudor?Foofbun (talk) 22:37, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
 * yeh, I know who she is and I have several genre films with her in my collection, but sadly very few infos about her to write an article. However never say never. Cavarrone (talk) 22:51, 11 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Wow, I wasn't notified of your reply...some people were lucky to get some of those Eurotrash and Spaghetti Western magazines that had fantastic interviews. I'm off to Italy in a few months time so will keep my eyes open; in New Caledonia found singer Francois Hardy doing horoscopes in a woman's magazine...Foofbun (talk) 06:53, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

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Autopatrolled
Hi Cavarrone, I just read one of your articles at new page patrol and was rather surprised to discover that someone who has written so many referenced articles hadn't yet been made an Autopatroller. So I've taken the liberty of fixing that.  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  12:27, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, many thanks! Regards, Cavarrone (talk) 12:36, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh crap. They have only done 10,000 Italian film articles.  How many actors in Italy can there be?  :)  Bgwhite (talk) 08:03, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
 * :D Cavarrone (talk) 08:20, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, thought this would interest you. Green-Halcyon or Aunty-S has tried to edit two more articles after having fun with you.  They were temporary blocked on one article and then threatened with a block on another.  Aunty-S is now on a "wiki-break".  I'm trying to have somebody blocked for adding "actors" for people who have ever been in an Italian home video.... Bgwhite (talk) 22:32, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Lol! Not surprised at all! Cavarrone (talk) 23:46, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks
... for the heads up. Having been essentially chased away from the AFD discussion by rudeness, hostility, and intransigence, I did something earlier that will be of use. See THIS. Best,  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 10:00, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

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inre this discussion
I do appreciate that as the verifiable directorial debut of a notable person, this article meets a criteria of WP:NF, and that it does have coverage... but I ask that you take a look at this edit and consider that a "redirect" is pretty much okay for now just so long as there is no prejudice toward a recreation of the article if/when more sources become available AND as long as the returned article be properly sourced and maintain a properly neutral tone. Reasonable?  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 21:29, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Reducing fair use files
Whenever you reduce the resolution of a fair use file, remember to add to the file information page so that the old versions are removed. Alternatively, instead of reducing the files yourself, you can add non-free reduce so that a bot reduces the file size automatically. --Stefan2 (talk) 15:40, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks. --Cavarrone (talk) 16:55, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

 Erpert  Who is this guy? 21:01, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Quick Question
You commented here on this logo, as the other logos in use on that article are in the vein, should we take your opinion to stand for: File:Changchun logo.png File:China hosa logo.png File:China sharks logo.png and File:Harbin ice hockey logo.png? These probably should have been listed as a group or something since they're basically all the same situation.--Crossmr (talk) 11:29, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

India Summer
Hi Cavarrone, I saw that you removed India's real name from her article. I can understand the reasoning behind doing it, but since its listed on IMDb.com removing her name doesn't really protect her privacy. I'm just curious if she asked you to remove her name? She and I have been messaging on Twitter recently and she knows that I've edited her WP article. --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (talk) 04:21, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Scalhotrod, I see your point, but first of all I removed the name because it was totally uncited. If we want add this info we should cite reliable sources such as AVN magazine, XBIZ and so on, as this is specifically requested by our policy about living persons, see WP:BLPPRIVACY. About IMDB, it is not considered a reliable source, see here. Anyway, I don't consider her real name as essential for the article. My best, --Cavarrone (talk) 07:35, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

I see your point as well, but the comment (and/or policy) on the Porn Project page is incorrect. Unlike WP, IMDb.com is closely monitored as it is owned and operated by a for-profit company (Amazon). See here... IMDb.com You may (or may not) have heard about the recent lawsuit against IMDb.com because they factually posted the correct age of any actress who felt that as a result her career would be damaged and she would get less work because of people knowing her real age. IMDb can't afford to be caught up in bad fact checking as they are already being attacking for posting correct information. Again, I have no issue with taking India's real name down, but since the "cat is out of the bag" so to speak, India doesn't seem to be concerned. When I saw her name listed on IMDB, I asked her if she preferred that I call her India or Jody and her response was indifferent. Something you may want to consider is her mainstream work. I'm working with India to update IMDb with her mainstream credits and not having WP match the information could give the impression that he fan base isn't as "devoted" as they are with other stars. At least she's not trying to pull off what Lexxi Tyler was doing. She outright had an alias that she used non-porn work and went to the effort to try to conceal it. There's been a minor edit war here on WP over it. But she seems to have given in since her real name, Kristina Flores, is posted on IMDb as well. By the way, this issue over IMDb's credibility comes up over and over again. I used IMDb to verify some information about the actor Kirk Douglas. Several very senior and experienced Wikipedian's objected to using IMDb and when presented with the facts about how its operated, they relented. Someone should point out the error in belief or opinion of IMDb to the folks that run the WP Porn Project. --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (talk) 07:15, 1 April 2012 (UTC) Hi again, I just ran across this article about porn and mainstream actress Sunny Leone. What a well written, organized, and referenced article! THIS is what we should aspire to for India and the rest! --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (talk) 08:18, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
 * All I can say as long-long-long-time contributor of IMDb is that IMDb is usually reliable, but sometimes not... I could post many examples of that from my IMDb update history (non-existing titles, uncorrect years of release, actors split in two profiles as they would be different persons etc.) In the past I've even added birth names and dates of birth without any request of a source (I see now the rules have changed)... Recently an AfD about Kiwi Ling, whose presumed notability was based on an incorrect information resulting by IMBd, created a months-long discussion about the deletion of the whole PORNBIO guideline (see 1 & 2)... I love IMDb and I have no doubt that, about the India Summer's real name, IMDb is "trustworthy", but for my personal experience I do not have blind faith in the credibility of this website, at least when it is the only source to report an information. About the point B, what we need are sources... Cavarrone (talk) 09:28, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

So it sounds like we're in agreement about IMDb; its not perfect, but its better than it used to be and improvements are being made. I too am IMDb contributor in addition to having my own entry from my years working in the entertainment industry. As for sources, to some extent through my efforts India has only relatively recently become aware that she gets a decent amount of press mentions between DVD release announcements, her awards and achievements, and her activities in general. Basically we need to start compiling a list of sources and articles. I routinely scan AVN magazine each month and send her a list of pages where she is mentioned or has a photo. If you start a Sand Box page, I'm happy to post what I can find so we have a running list. Sound good? --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (talk) 18:35, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

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An AFD you participated in is at deletion review
You participated in Articles for deletion/Bridgette B (2nd nomination) so you should know it is now up for deletion review at Deletion_review/Log/2012_April_12.  D r e a m Focus  20:38, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Keep up the good work! -- Supernova Explosion   Talk  10:09, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Tori Black Is Pretty Filthy
Hi Cavarrone, arguably the COI is unjustified. I was wondering about your reason behind removing the advert tag in this edit. In the meantime I have replaced the tag, and justified it on the talkpage. Widefox (talk) 13:14, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

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Regetarianism
Thanks for the Google book sources, but if you look closely at those, you'll see that they're all OCR errors of "vegetarianism" by Google Books. Scopecreep (talk) 15:05, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

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Notvand
Please review WP:NOTVAND. This was not vandalism. Calling not-vandalism vandalism is disruptive - it must not continue. Hipocrite (talk) 12:43, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, probably you are true, it is more related to WP:POINT and WP:DISRUPT. Cavarrone (talk) 13:11, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

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Germans
Hi. I found an error in the article (see photo). Copernicus was not a German, he was from Poland. --Top811 my talk —Preceding undated comment added 13:43, 12 May 2012 (UTC).
 * Interisting, but I have no role in that. It may be noted in the talk page of the article, not here. Cavarrone (talk) 13:59, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

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WP:BEFORE
Just so you know, WP:BEFORE is section of Articles for deletion, and is a guide to part of the AfD process. Contrary to your apparent feelings, it's not really relevant outside of that sphere (e.g. with regard to prodded content). Even if it were a relevant policy or guideline, your repeated assertions that I haven't applied it are at best presumptuous, and at worst a failure to assume good faith. – hysteria18 (talk) 17:06, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
– hysteria18 (talk) 18:57, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

inre Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pope John Paul II: The Movie
When notified of improvements the nom has changed his mind... and upon my instructions, struck his statement and changed to keep. :) Anyone could close it now, I suppose. But as the "involved" editor who addressed issues, it would be unseemly if I were to do so.

Here's my DYK suggestion. A 32x expansion of a stub is not too bad.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 01:45, 27 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Closed by User:StAnselm. Nice.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 01:47, 27 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the barnstar. Like my DYK?  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 06:31, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeh, it's good. Cavarrone (talk) 06:39, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Island: Wedding of the Zombies article and AGF
Hi Cavarrone, I wanted to let you know that I worked on adding new content and sources to the Island: Wedding of the Zombies article to help establish notability. I just wanted to mention that your comments in your edit summaries can come off a bit abrasive and assuming good faith and trying to work with others would go a lot further toward improving Wikipedia and the articles. Rather than removing the notability tag I placed and saying "notability tag for what? article shows multiple reliable significant secondary sources...", you could have instead responded to the discussion that I began on the talk page where I explained my thoughts on those sources and the notability of the article. Either way, the article was improved and I have no hard feelings. I just feel that in the future you could try more to work with others and assume good faith; I wouldn't want to see any new users turn away from contributing due to a bad experience.

You were correct in removing the Prod that I put and I will put more effort in the future into searching for sources beforehand. AdventurousSquirrel (talk) 22:42, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Katherine Dienes
Hello again Cavarrone, are you making an assumption that I'm referring to the only one of the three refs that aren't rotting ? As you improved the article, this is moot of course. Widefox (talk) 11:45, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Widefox, then, what linkrot are you referring to? The article showed three sources, excluding the paywalled one there remains two archivied articles, 1 and 2, that surely does not appear as dead links (not even to you, if you correctly added a FAILED VERIFICATION TAG at the first link ...) and WP has nothing against this kind of services (ie see WP:LINKROT, WP:WAYBACK and WP:WEBCITE). Cavarrone (talk) 13:11, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok I understand now, have you read ref 1.? By throwing up all these doubts about other's edits, it appears to be a WP:AGF issue? Widefox (talk) 13:55, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know, maybe it was just an error... surely it did not support the facts which referenced it. Anyway it is now removed. Cavarrone (talk) 14:51, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Polynomial recurrence
Hi Cavarrone, If you found book sources that support the notability of Polynomial recurrence, could you mention them somewhere other users can use them to improve the article? (To be honest, if what you did was just an internet search, I think you'll have drawn an awful lot of false positives.) Thanks, --Joel B. Lewis (talk) 14:43, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Matt Helm (TV series).jpg
 Thanks for uploading File:Matt Helm (TV series).jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Barnstar for Pray to Kill and Return Alive

 * Michael Q. Schmidt beat me to it, but I fully second his sentiment. Thank you for the good job! Huon (talk) 21:53, 14 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I third this. Any way we can work a 1) close the AFD, 2) move it to the most common English language title 3) nominate it for DYK? I have no time to spend on the article, as I am prepping to start shooting my own Spaghetti Western (sorta) in two weeks, but this would be a fun DYK. 68.107.135.58 (talk) 00:55, 15 May 2012 (UTC) (Shared computer.)
 * 1) As there are no outstanding delete votes, someone who has not been involved in the discussion will come by and close it soon per WP:SNOW. 2) Per Naming conventions (films) stating "Titles of articles should be the most commonly used title....", and as there is precedent for doing so, I opt for the more commonly used and more sourcable Italian title of Prega il Morto e Ammazza il Vivo and a  modification of the lede (with setting of redirects) to share that it had the several (less common and less searcable) English titles of Pray to Kill and Return Alive, Shoot the Living and Pray for the Dead, To Kill a Jackal, and Renegade Gun.  3) Once THAT is done, I would be happy to submit a DYK and will encourage ideas from you both for a suitable hook.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 05:22, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations on the barnstar. Auchansa (talk) 04:36, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! --Cavarrone (talk) 06:17, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Proposed revision to lede:
Prega il Morto e Ammazza il Vivo is the original release title of the 1971 Italian dramatic spaghetti western film directed by Giuseppe Vari, and starring Klaus Kinski and Dante Maggio. Among its many international releases, the film had English releases as Pray to Kill and Return Alive, Shoot the Living and Pray for the Dead, To Kill a Jackal, and Renegade Gun. The script by Adriano Bolzoni is inspired by American noir-crime films of the 1930s and 1940s, and Kinski's entry into the scene reprises Edward G. Robinson's in Key Largo (1948).


 * Cites:


 * Yeh, very good for me. Cavarrone (talk) 05:50, 15 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Can we put the most common English title parentheses in bold immediately after the Italian title? Please do not list the Wikipedia translation first in the list of alternative titles, whatever you do, as it is not the most common English title, but has gained in popularity due to the Wikipedia article. I'm not keen on having the article under its Italian title; but I am okay with it. 68.107.135.58 (talk) 02:08, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Can do, sure. But which would you consider the most common English title? The "wrong" English title is the poorly translated one used at IMDB... and being so poor, it provides to poorest range of sources when used in searches. That's why this was sent to AFD in the first place: The nominator could not find decent sources using it.  I understand your not being keen on the orginal Italian release title, but it far and away the most searchable and sourcable, and occasional use of foreign titles for such reason has precedent here. So whch do you find better to be emboldened following the Italian... Shoot the Living and Pray for the Dead, To Kill a Jackal, or Renegade Gun?  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 06:03, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Shoot the Living and Pray for the Dead. We could do searches. This should be discussed on the article talk page if we're going for much more. 68.107.135.58 (talk) 06:21, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Incorporated. See article itself. And yes, anything else can be discussed on its talk page. Simply awaiting a close.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 16:24, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Dori ☾Talk ⁘ Contribs☽ 08:51, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Book sources
Would you mind sharing some of those sources? Thanks. --Guillaume2303 (talk) 10:56, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * . I'm not an expert in this field and I'm far to be sure about its notability/unnotability... maybe there are all false positive, maybe not... an AfD discussion between users  more expert than me could be useful to estabilish the relevancy of these sources and the notability of this concept. Cavarrone (talk) 11:01, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, Thanks! --Guillaume2303 (talk) 11:38, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

deescalate
It'd be wise to stay off OrenBochman's talk page for now, and you don't need to respond to everything they say at ANI. Let the rest of the community have time to review the situation and address it, okay? Nobody Ent 11:40, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * No problem... --Cavarrone (talk) 11:41, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Tb
Three warnings with accompanying attempts at discussion. His failure to understand may result in his being blocked. WP:ANI wil be the next step if he continues.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 17:47, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Marina Malfatti
You have her being born in Rome, twice and in Florence. Now, my mother-in-law says she was born in the U.S, but I really know she was born in the depths of hell as a spawn of Satan. Mother-in-law may be listed born in two different locations, but I don't think Malfatti was. Bgwhite (talk) 07:38, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 28
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Orphaned non-free media (File:Sette note in nero.jpg)
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Thanks!
Thanks for participating in my RFA! I appreciate your support. Zagal e jo^^^ 06:37, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!
Remember to add the films to the lists though like List of Italian films of 1974!♦ Dr. Blofeld  15:19, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Umhlanga Lagoon for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Umhlanga Lagoon is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Umhlanga Lagoon until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

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Removal of Proposal for Deletion from Gaius Julius Severus (tribune)
Hi Cavarrone,

Thanks for looking over the Gaius Julius Severus (tribune) article I marked for deletion. I have gone into some detail on the talk page about why the article should still be deleted, addressing your concerns about his supposed notability. If you think my comments addressed your concerns, could I ask that you mark the page for deletion? I'm not sure on the protocol on this, but I don't think it should be me who again puts the article up for deletion, so can I ask that you do it? Thanks. Oatley2112 (talk) 23:02, 10 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the advice Cavarrone, I shall put the article up for AfD shortly. Regarding the two Amyntas pages (Amyntas of Galatia and Amyntas, Tetrarch of the Tectosagii), they appear to be two different individuals, related via marriage (one was the father of Artemidoros, the other the father of a daughter whom Artemidoros married). Regards, Oatley2112 (talk) 11:01, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Grafting number
You removed the WP:PROD notice from Grafting number, but did not give your reasons for disputing the proposed deletion, which was it's lack of notability and absence of proper sourcing. The article still has these issues so I have nominated it via AfD. Please in future give reasons for disputing the prod, or address the concerns raised by it, before removing a proposed deletion tag. It is not a formal requirement but if you have good reasons for wanting keeping the article it will help editors decide what steps to take next if you explain them in the edit summary or on the talk page, or even better improve the article so the reasons in the proposed deletion no longer apply.-- JohnBlackburne wordsdeeds 02:31, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Where's the point? I myself suggested AfD, my rationale was "probably AfD is the best venue for this", ie a thorough discussion between editors expert in relevant field it is better than a fast deletion via prod, that very few editors will see (being the topic orphan and, in somewhat manner, a "niche" subject). I don't disagree with the deletion in the merit, just think that AfD is a better method considering the nature of the concept and the fact that the prod was already questioned (in an improper way) by another user (User:Marcoandre1212) that wrote under your deletion rationale "Opinion: I don't see any reason why this should be deleted.. it is wrong that you say that is something someone made up. By what I saw in the video it is a numbers propriety like any other property. In any case I agree that could be better explained how was created." . Regards, Cavarrone (talk) 06:05, 17 July 2012 (UTC)