User talk:Ceedjee~enwiki/archive2


 * Archives

Thanks for the note
Gilabrand has been stalking for quite some time..I find it amusing...when I stop finding it amusing then I'll complain...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 10:55, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Mohammad Amin al-Husayni
Courtesy notice: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni&diff=231696569&oldid=231657801 and Talk:Mohammad Amin al-Husayni. Thank you. -- Avi (talk) 15:23, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Please stop
Ceedjee, you seem to be graduating from a violation of WP:NPA to violations of WP:STALK. I really need you to leave me alone (no more insults, restoring insults, following me), and I need for that to happen now. Thanks. IronDuke 14:46, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi,
 * Please, be sure I don't follow you. I have the WP:AN and WP:AN/I in my follow up and I checked the threads were I was talked about. No more, no less.
 * About the other thread, I never insulted you either. If you feel that, please, accept my apologies.
 * The threatening tone you take with me right now show there is a misunderstanding. I apologize for that. This is my mistake.
 * If I cross you on a talk page, I will try to stay away.
 * Ceedjee (talk) 14:54, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It is possible that you found the working group on ethinic and cultural wars talk page by accident, and that you leapt on my neutral message of thanks to attack me for no reason by chance. If so, fine, we'll say no more about it. If not, please don't follow me elsewhere. And again, don't insult me, or egg others on to revert me (as you did on ThuranX's talk page just now). I also think it odd that you consider my remarks rude: I've not called you names, but you have insulted me. I don't know what else to say except to ask you, again, to stop. IronDuke  15:44, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * IronDuke,
 * I will not answer on your talk page so that it stops here.
 * I cannot agree you delete my messages and add your comments instead.
 * But I can take distance you want me to take.
 * Once more, I never egged anybody to revert you. After putting back the comment you had deleted (and that you reverted me), I just warned the guy.
 * It is up to you. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 * nb:I don't copy/paste this on your talk page ; better to take distance.
 * Ceedjee (talk) 16:23, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see why you can't refactor your comments so that they are not so aggressively insulting. Do you feel that it is impossible to say what you want to say without insulting me? I don't think I'm asking for too much. I have no desire to fight with you. IronDuke  16:39, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If so, why do you come here ?
 * For me it is the same. It is up to you.
 * My message to you is that WP:NPOV and WP:V are very important. Even more than communautarism and ethnic considerations. You have heard me. That's up to you to deal with that. Ceedjee (talk) 16:40, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I take no issue with your reminding me that NPOV and V are very important. Notice that I did not strike those portions. I struck only the parts that violated WP:AGF, WP:CIVIL, and WP:NPA. I'd say that it was an honest mistake on your part, except that you are completely unwilling to refactor that highly offensive section, which confirms that your intent was to insult me. IronDuke  16:48, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I subscribe 100% to what I wrote. That was not insulting. That is my mind, written with care and giving the limits of application due to the experience of my interaction with you. What has happened since is not helpful to make me change my mind.
 * On the administrative point of view, WP:CIVIL is respected. The spirit and filed of application of WP:AGF is respected; even if I wrote that, "from my personal point of view but I may be wrong", you was not of good faith. I still don't see the link with WP:NPA as explained here above.
 * Ceedjee (talk) 16:58, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * First, "On the administrative point of view, WP:CIVIL is respected. The spirit and filed of application of WP:AGF is respected" doesn't mean anything -- literally. Can you rewrite it so I can understand what you were trying to say? Second, your subscribing 100% to your insult does not make me say, "Oh, well, as long as Ceedjee believes it, that's okay." I think you calling me a liar is a pretty clear violation of WP:NPA, even if you say, "I hope I am wrong about IronDuke being a liar." Do you think the wiki would be harmed by your changing an offensive insult you made? If so, in what way?  IronDuke  17:05, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Where did I write you was a liar ? I wrote that from my point of view, you intervention was not sincere but that I may be wrong and that I expected future interaction with me would prove so [I am wrong].
 * First wikipedia purpose is to write an encyclopaedia. Contents issues and NPoV is the most important. In the context of "ethnic disputes" and "communautarist behaviour" in which, from my point of view, you are involved, I am convinced it is important that everybody could express, on talk pages related with this issue, one's fears about other editors.
 * I will not feel insulted if you write on the talk page of that project (after correcting my English mistakes) one of these :
 * After discussing with Ceedjee, I am convinced he is of good faith but misunderstand my way of editing wikipedia. I expect we solve this in the near future;
 * After discussing with Ceedjee, I am convinced he is harashing me because of his bias;
 * After discussing with Ceedjee, I am convinced he is unable to understand our policies and I am disappointed by this.
 * nb: Concerning the 1st sentence, read "field" where I wrote "field".
 * Ceedjee (talk) 17:16, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) When you say you think that I’m insincere, that means you think I’m a liar. I have no interest in getting to the root of why you are insulting and antagonizing me, I’d only like for it to stop. Let me see if I can strip it down to something simpler: what would be the harm in you refactoring your comments to remove (what I strongly believe to be) an insult against me (even if it isn't really)? What would that cost you, or the project? IronDuke 22:32, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't agree because it is not insulting and you use force and threat to try to make me "agree" to see my comments replaced by "personnal attacks", as if they were. It would cost me that my comments would be amalgamated with "insult" whereas they are clear, nuanced and cautious.
 * For the project, it is harmful to let contributors intimidate and harash others.
 * Ceedjee (talk) 06:40, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No, it might only mean that you were being courteous, in effect saying, "I don't agree that I attacked you, IronDuke, but in the interests of harmony, I will refactor." What would be wrong with doing that? IronDuke  21:13, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Doing so would indeed show I would be extremelly courteous and in the interest of harmony, would be very good. But Not doing so doesn't show the contrary.
 * What would be bad in refactoring and writing what you suggest is that I would by "hypocrit" (is it English, maybe the word is "hypocritical" ?) with myself given I don't feel like writing this because I am still not convinced of your sincerity.
 * You seem to have plenty of time to discuss, why don't you try to educate user:Shevashalosh ? Maybe he needs this more than me ? Ceedjee (talk) 21:29, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * He may well need it more than you, but since he hasn't violated WP:CIVIL towards me, I'm taking a little less interest. I would offer to educate you about WP:CIVIL, but I think you already understand it perfectly well, you just seem to enjoy hostility for hostility's sake. IronDuke  21:58, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * LOL.
 * Don't you think you project your own feelings on me ? Whether you don't understand wp:civil whether you present all the symptoms, coming here threathening me to leave you alone and having since posted here more than 10 times...
 * Just ask yourself all the questions you asked me. :-)
 * You have been violating wp:civil with me for 2 days.
 * nb: Stop modifying others comment on talk page. That is not acceptable, per none wp:policy. Ceedjee (talk) 06:59, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * By the way, you talked here above about the interest of the encyclopaedia. Could you please tell me your major contributions to the content of articles. I have just checked havent't seen much whereas it appears that you are highly involved in ethnical issues and controversial discussions.
 * Your agressivity in coming here titillating me proves you are not here to contribute but just to fight, whatever you claim. Ceedjee (talk) 07:10, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Self-hating Jew
I think you're right about the titles. I think we should remove them.

Unfortunately the Manual of Style only addresses the issue with respect to biographies: Manual of Style (biographies). Maybe we should ask other editors on the Talk page. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 17:35, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Do as you like with BL-DY
Feel free. I am actually getting tired of this topic - though the article you pointed us to by Gelber was fascinating.

Shevashalosh is certainly using up a lot of energy that I could have been using to review Schubert's last sonatas. Ahh, well, so it goes... --Ravpapa (talk) 14:48, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I think you're right. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 21:18, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Battle of Latrun (:en:)
Greetings/Salut, Ceedjee! Thank you for creating the English Wikipedia page on the Battle of Latrun. Being a polyglot Interwiki editor myself, I thought you might like a look at these light edits I made, mainly for English usage without touching the contents. While your English is far better than my French, do feel free to leave me a message if you'd like me to go over any of your contributions here. N.B.: I was brought to this topic by the current activity on the French Wikipedia (brought to my attention courtesy of its Projet Israël). My ultimate goal is that the improved French article be translated into both English and Hebrew. -- Cheers, Deborahjay (talk) 08:57, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Latrun maps
Hi Ceedjee! I would like to make English versions of your maps in Battle of Latrun. Can you please send me the SVG files? Or maybe you have time to do this yourself? Thanks, Ynhockey (Talk) 09:05, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, SVG problems on commons are common (no pun intended) and this is why I personally uploading everything in .png as well. Can you please send me the files to ynhockey at gmail or hotmail? Thanks, Ynhockey (Talk) 09:38, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Hezbollah
Ceedjee I haven't removed any material. What I object to is the demonisation practice. I do understand that Hezbollah is not exactly flavor of the month in Israel and Israeli circles. I am placing the counter argument to the previous 2 sections (unfortunately someone keeps removing it)....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 17:08, 17 August 2008 (UTC) I just notice we both edited at the same time...I really hate putting negative arguments in...I don't like it being up the front of the article...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 17:16, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

that is all three negative sections...Hezbollah on Israel...Hezbollah on Jews and Israel and the west on Hezbollah...all three belong in the same place..... preferably in a dustbin..but I can't see that happening..Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 17:20, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Shevashalosh
According to User:Shevashalosh: "Common mistake about me, I'm a she not a he." — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 17:51, 17 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the heads up. This is the second time she has done that without notifying me. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 19:17, 17 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I tried to lay out the broader context of Shevashalosh's disruptive editing, but I don't know if anybody will do anything. When she violated 3RR, all they did was protect the page. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 19:40, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

On an Aside
I notice in Israel's Holocaust and the Politics of Nationhood By Idith Zertal, Chaya Galai, the BG's inner circle is mentioned, not far removed from Ilan Pappe's use of "Consultancy".....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 18:37, 17 August 2008 (UTC) Page 80 something...Quite interesting on the way the Holocaust survivors were treated/side lined....BG was ruthless. But matches into BG references in Rich Cohen's Avengers.....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 19:06, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

A couple of interesting books you're missing is Shafir's Land, Labour and the Origins of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict 1882-1914 ISBN 0-520-20401-8 and Shapira's Land and Power ISBN 0-8047-3776-2 ....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 19:14, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Shafir is good on how the European political thought and philosophy affected the early Zionist thinking and Institutions.

Shapira's Land and Labour is good on how those policies were acted on in Palestine.... the 2 read together are better than apart.....they augment each other quite well...appealing is the correct word...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 20:11, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Idith Zertal does some interesting work ceedjee.

Ceedjee. Ben-Gurions inner circle. Where Zertal describes a senior Ha’aretz editorialist as being a part of BG’s circle.

Israel's Holocaust and the Politics of Nationhood By Idith Zertal, Chaya Galai Translated by Chaya Galai Contributor Charles Tripp, Chaya Galai, Julia A. Clancy-Smith Published by Cambridge University Press, 2005 ISBN 0521850967, 9780521850964 Page 118 not in the 80's as I previously intimated.

Other books by Idith Zertal that you may find interesting.

From Catastrophe to Power: Holocaust Survivors and the Emergence of Israel By Idith Zertal Published by University of California Press, 1998 ISBN 0520215788, 9780520215788

Not one I can read but a French language translation but it may be more appealing to you. Des Rescapés pour un état: la politique sioniste d'immigration clandestine en Palestine 1945-1948 By Idith Zertal, Jacqueline Carnaud Contributor Jacqueline Carnaud, Jacqueline Lahana Published by Calmann-Lévy, 2000 ISBN 2702130704, 9782702130704

And this one looks most assuredly appealing/interesting. Lords of the Land: The War for Israel's Settlements in the Occupied Territories, 1967-2007 By Idith Zertal, Akiva Eldar, Vivian Sohn Eden Translated by Vivian Eden Published by Nation Books, 2007 ISBN 1568583702, 9781568583709
 * ...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 11:13, 22 August 2008 (UTC)