User talk:Celia Homeford

Kings of Spain
I was simply trying to add consistency to to Phillip II, III, and IV article because Phillip IV already had as his name Phillip IV & III so I added that to the other Phillip’s. If you have an issue you with it why don’t change Phillip IV & III? Orson12345 (talk) 14:22, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * You're 6 minutes too late: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Philip_IV_of_Spain&diff=prev&oldid=1076320174. Celia Homeford (talk) 14:23, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * There names should include his numerals as King of Spain and as King of Portugal not just Spain. Perhaps we should revert back everything and discuss on article page.Orson12345 (talk) 14:34, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * You're 10 years too late: Talk:Philip II of Spain/Archive 1. It was established years ago that "Philip II & I" is a made-up name that should not be used. Celia Homeford (talk) 14:46, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Really? You’re going to use as consensus from 10 years ago to justify your edits. Orson12345 (talk) 14:50, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is the rule here. Previous consensus holds true and it is the new edit that needs to demonstrate a new consensus not the old one. Celia Homeford (talk) 14:52, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

To correct what I said about Philip IV. His numerals were Philip IV & III for at least a year, so my question is if there was a consensus to not use both numerals why didn’t you or anyone change it till now? Orson12345 (talk) 15:00, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Howdy. I don't doubt your word, but where is the discussion that led to the consensus to 'remove' the Portugal regnal numbers from the Bourbons? That way, I'll know & remember. GoodDay (talk) 21:40, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't know who you're quoting or who wants to remove the Portugal regnal numbers. You should ask whoever that is. Celia Homeford (talk) 09:08, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Try it this way. Why did you revert my changes & to what discussions/consensus were you speaking of in your edit-summaries. GoodDay (talk) 01:30, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Please see my edit summaries and above. Celia Homeford (talk) 10:05, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello. Would you point to me the discussion that led to the results for the Hasburg Portugese monarchs? I'm not doubting your word, just don't remember those discussions. GoodDay (talk) 17:12, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
 * ↑ Celia Homeford (talk) 09:36, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:45, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

No intention to "alter" a Blockquote
https://www.unr.edu/writing-speaking-center/writing-speaking-resources/mla-quotation-punctuation#:~:text=Using Brackets

I merely committed an honest mistake of using parentheses instead of brackets. But I will let things be with your reversion; although I did find the quote confusing and tried to clarify. Buszmail (talk) 20:10, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

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Prince William Frederick, Duke of Gloucester and Edinburgh
Hi Celia, thanks for your edits on my addition to The Duke's page regarding his clandestine marriage to Ann Maguire. You commented that you could not find the citation in the material. The documents containing the detail are held at the London Metropolitan Archive (I deposited them there myself last week) under the reference "Uncatalogued B23/103 RECORDS of ANTHONY CROSBY". I referenced this at the start of the paragraph and provided additional supporting references to Anthony Camp's publications. How can I better reference the deleted material to ensure it can be found? Thanks Graham Young Ee87gsy (talk) 11:56, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I was referring to the citation I removed, not the archives or Camp. Celia Homeford (talk) 12:32, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Indeed the citation for Old Bracknell House is just referencing a picture of the house. I am happy for this to be removed. However, the detail about The Duke providing the residence at Old Bracknell, Maguire's claims and Crosby's letters are in the LMA archive. So perhaps I should remove the Old Bracknell reference and provided a further reference at the end of the paragraph to the LMA? (I have documented much more detail about Ann Maguire and the Duke on Crosby's wikipedia page). Ee87gsy (talk) 13:12, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

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House of Glücksburg
Dear Celia, a problem ocurred at the article: House of Glücksburg, where i edited the following:

"While the official royal house of Denmark remains the House of Glücksburg although the current Danish king is a patrilineal member of the House of Monpezat, it is the other way round in the United Kingdom, whose current king is a patrilineal member of the House of Glücksburg, while the official royal house is the House of Windsor, which emerged from the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha."

I think you deleted all of that. The whole content of the above text is, however, already proven. The official royal house of Denmark remains the House of Glücksburg, this can be read on all official publications of the royal house.

If you took a closer look at the page House of Glücksburg, you will notice that there is much confusion about who now belongs to the house and who not, and it is therefore necessary to explain the situation about the kings of Denmark and of the UK in the lede. Otherwise, the insertion and deletion of those two kings will go on for ages. Krokusblum4 (talk) 13:24, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I haven't seen those publications. You will need to provide them. All content on wikipedia should be cited. Celia Homeford (talk) 14:23, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I think, you are one of the driving forces to push the deletion of the House of Glücksburg from the Danish king's page, and probably you are also one of the voices impeding the insertion of the Glücksburg/Windsor info. It's because of people like you, that there is ongoing confusion as to who belongs to which house. You seem to write about nobility all the time, but yet you claim not being able to find suitable sources. Now there is a page about a king without a house. For sure, it can't stay like that for long. Aside from that, the Danish article still states House of Glücksburg. Krokusblum4 (talk) 14:49, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Er, no. All you have to do to add the material is provide suitable sources. Celia Homeford (talk) 14:55, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Coronation medal citations
Hello Celia Homeford

As always, thanks for your superb oversight of Wiki pages concerning royalty & related matters.

A slight conundrum as how to cite Sophie, Duchess of Edinburgh's award of the King Charles III Coronation Medal - and likewise for the vast majority of its recipients (going forward)...

Might a picture of her wearing it suffice or perhaps more official would be citing HM Govt's published eligiblity criteria for receipt of this Coronation Medal? (with which she clearly complies, viz. military appointments) qv. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/64cb653b2322ce000dcd23b7/Coronation_Medal_eligibility_criteria.docx.

What do you think? because, as recently mentioned to DrKay, no official gazette or other comprehensive authorative source exists for such awards (Jubilee/Coronation/etc) given that so many (3,000+) are issued.

To me, "citation needed" on Wiki implies some doubt as to veracity, whereas there clearly is none here.

Looking forward to hearing - many thanks.

Best Primm1234 (talk) 15:58, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
 * If she's clearly wearing it, that's good enough for me. When you refer to the eligibility criteria, I presume you mean category 13 of Annex A? That's the only potential category for her as far as I can make out. Celia Homeford (talk) 16:06, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi Celia Homeford
 * Sophie, Duchess of Edinburgh, complies under 8.A of these regulations but, on a wider issue, what about other recipients who appear in Wiki?
 * Many thanks & shall I go ahead by updating her article accordingly?
 * Best Primm1234 (talk) 16:30, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I can see how she can meet Annex A, category 13 (b). I don't see that she meets 8A. For that, there must be an "active contribution" ... "attendance at an event, i.e. as a guest, does not in itself qualify for the medal". Celia Homeford (talk) 08:11, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Eleanor of Aquitaine
Can you please explain why you removed the internal link to Eleanor of Aquitaine's family tree, which I am in the process of building. The interrelationships of French and English nobility of the time is so complicated, it requires a clear genealogy to make sense of it, rather than just a textual description. I am intending to revert your edit. Michael Goodyear ✐ ✉  22:39, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I see no reason to using a farcically archaic and absurd term like 'Acscendants' when all other articles on royalty use the usual and idiomatic 'Ancestry'. Article consistency should be maintained. Nor do I see any reason to depart from the project-wide consensus to use sentence case for sub-headings. 'Family tree' should be written in sentence case, as mandated by the Manual of Style. Also, per policy, edits that are undone should be discussed and not reimposed unilaterally by a single editor against project-wide consensus. Celia Homeford (talk) 08:16, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Tudor relevancy
Should I not have added the tudors to the template? My original purpose of the template was to show the basic transition from Stuart to Hanover. Sophia is clearly the key, there. Then I added the Tudors because it looked more like a simple 1→2→3 flowchart, but the "1" (tudors) was missing. —GoldRingChip 12:49, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't see how the Tudors are relevant to the Hanoverians, or vice versa. There's a hundred years between them. I can see why such links are shown on arching articles like a family tree of all English monarchs, but that's not appropriate for a biography of an individual where family trees should show relationships relevant to the article subject's life. Celia Homeford (talk) 13:02, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
 * That is fine. I have now removed the Tudors. —GoldRingChip 13:33, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

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Ernst August Move
Hi Celia,

You recently move the page for "Ernst August von Hannover (born 1983)" to "Prince Ernst August of Hanover (born 1983)". I realise it may be a bit unclear given the discussion wasn't on the talk page but this page title was discussed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(royalty_and_nobility)/Archive_24#Requested_move_7_June_2023

I believe you've made the move based on the short 2016 move discussion on the talk page where they say "There is no reason to translate his given names just because he is a prince. We wouldn't translate the given names of other living Germans." which is amusing considering his surname is not "of Hanover" and is in fact "von Hannover". Please revert the move and open a move discussion if you feel a move is needed.

Thanks D1551D3N7 (talk) 16:34, 22 April 2024 (UTC)


 * What User:Celia Homeford did is absolutely right. The discussion you are pointing out to does not cover the page on Ernst August nor does it cover the pages on any of his siblings. If you wish to move any of those pages, you should open an RM that specifically covers them so that the community make a decision by taking WP:COMMONNAME, WP:CONSISTENT and other factors into consideration. Keivan.f  Talk 17:04, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Actually the reason to have one bigger discussion was for WP:CONSISTENT purposes as I would get accused of making pages inconsistent if I did 1 page at a time. This is a point I think I made within that discussion.
 * I realise now that this is a different Ernst August to the one in that discussion, apologies. How the unprincely Ernst August can have a son who is Prince Ernst August is a mystery however, I think it would logically follow that his offspring wouldn't bear these fantasy titles.
 * I've opened a move request on Ernst August now anyway. D1551D3N7 (talk) 17:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Henry VI & Edward IV
Edward IV: I was debating the use of the word "claim" vs "right", as according to the Act of Accord the Yorkists did have the right to throne as they were now legally the successors of Henry VI. Do you not agree? Ychc1n19 (talk) 13:31, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Maybe if the citations say that, but I would need to be shown that citations are agreed on the issue and support it explicitly. Celia Homeford (talk) 14:14, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * The Act of Accord page says "Under the Act, King Henry VI of England was to retain the crown for life but York and his heirs were to succeed him, excluding Henry's son, Edward of Westminster. Henry was forced to agree to the Act." It was a Parliamentary Act, so was legally binding despite Margaret of Anjou refusing to accept it. Ychc1n19 (talk) 14:17, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * The citations at that page are all primary sources or weak webpages. Celia Homeford (talk) 14:30, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Henry VI: Surely it's good to leave in the link to the Cadet branches page, in case people don't know what that means and they can just hover over it and see before moving on? Ychc1n19 (talk) 13:31, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, I nearly left that in myself. Celia Homeford (talk) 14:14, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Lady Louise
Hello-- Her official style is The. I thought it was only used in formal situations, similar to how sometimes Sarah, Duchess of York is referred to jointly with Andrew as "The Duke and Duchess of York" in some circumstances. Sorry for the confusion. 71.184.82.123 (talk) 03:07, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Here are some links to the official site: . No 'The'. Celia Homeford (talk) 08:32, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * In the official line of succession, she is referred to as The Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor, see here. 2604:3D08:697F:CA20:EE1C:545E:7D6D:248A (talk) 20:30, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, I read that the first, second and third times you said that. No need to repeat it for fourth time, or any further. Celia Homeford (talk) 09:22, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Princess of Wales, Duchess of Edinburgh, Princess Royal & Duke of Sussex
Hello,

You deleted the coats of arms on the pages from the Princess of Wales, Duchess of Edinburgh, Princess Royal & Duke of Sussex. I was wondering why. The arms of different princesses of Wales at different periods is something about them, especially as a coat of arms is so often used by the British Royal Family. Also, why did you delete the coat of arms on the top of these pages? You said it was the "Personal arms of the incumbent, not those of the office or title", but it said underneath that this was the arms of the Incumbent specifically. JAMAMBTGE (talk) 22:20, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Henry viii
You keep changing it to the 22nd when it isn't written anywhere I'm sure every British monarch or English that I know of succeeds on the date of death of the predecessor, so if Edward vi reign started on the 28th Jan if you look at that wiki page yet your trying to say Henry viii didn't on the 21st ? Explain Lew 283 (talk) 21:06, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * You are wrong. I did explain. See the citations and books like page 27 of https://guides.library.harvard.edu/ld.php?content_id=12548485. Celia Homeford (talk) 07:13, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Maurice on William III
So the reason I stuck in Maurice is that William III was heir to the political traditions of the House of Orange and well as Stuart. In the United Provinces, the military tradition of the princes of Orange was established by Maurice as the first captain of his age, who by the way trained many of the commanders in the English Civil War. He is in there as important to that tradition and his lack of mention in the article is an oversight. See "Orange and Stuart" by Peter Geyl.


 * Dear Celia: I have now stuck in, amply cited by noted historians, the justification for William's family and political heritage as well as the citing of the banner used in the Glorious Revolution. JMvanDijk (talk)


 * I have also substaintially softened to 2-3 sentences the political background of William in the Dutch Republic, and added many more references. I have also added the details on the invasion flag to the references. JMvanDijk (talk)
 * You claimed that Robb wrote "The banner read: "Pro Religione et Liberate -- Je Maintiendrai", which translated means "For Religion and Liberty -- I will maintain". Je Maintiendrai is the motto of the House of Orange-Nassau". You calimed that it was a direct quote. It is not. See Manual of Style: "wording of the quoted text must be faithfully reproduced". It is not acceptable to rearrange or paraphrase QUOTES. She does not say that. That is not a QUOTE. Celia Homeford (talk) 15:01, 23 May 2024 (UTC)


 * So I have no provided a direct quote, instead of from my notes, as well as many alternate sources, even from the great encyclopedist Diderot. This is only a footnote, which most folks won't read, so let's let this go.  This is obviously important enough to be mentioned in all the sources cited and probably more.  Propaganda is often a key tool of statesmanship.  And please let's leave the judgment words such as "ridiculous" out of this. JMvanDijk (talk)
 * "Your notes" is not an acceptable citation. Neither is fotw.info, as you have already been told. Celia Homeford (talk) 15:10, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * As said, my notes were corrected by the citation you gave in Robb from Archiv.org, and the sources are from the French Encyclopedia of 1780, published in Paris, by Diderot and D'Alembert, plates and image numbers given. You should, if you are acting as editor, put them in the citation.  But, enough of this.  This reaching the end of reason. JMvanDijk (talk)

Philip II of Spain
Hello, Celia! I made a mistake and improperly translated the caption of king's armour's photo into Portuguese. Thank you for reversing my edit. Luiz265 (talk) 16:33, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Voice of Queen Victoria
What do you think about to use this short phonograph recording as a sample of voice of queen as an editor of her page? https://blogs.bl.uk/files/queen-victoria.mp3 Taken from here: https://blogs.bl.uk/sound-and-vision/2019/05/bicentenary-of-queen-victoria-is-this-her-voice.html Dmitry Azikov (talk) 13:03, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I can't really hear the voice. It's mostly noise. Celia Homeford (talk) 13:39, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, it also not absolutely sure that it is really recording of her voice, recording of her cousin prince George, duke of Cambridge was identified, but unfortunately phonograph records of late 19-th and early 20-th centuries rarely have good quality like Christmas messages of her descendants starting from her grandson king George V, but they are added in articles like speeches of american US presidents like Benjamin Harrison, German chancellor Otto con Bismarck and marshal Helmuth von Moltke, Russian composer Piotr Tchaikovsky, writer Leo Tolstoy and revolutionary bolshevik Vladimir Lenin. Version from YouTube has a bit better quality

Dmitry Azikov (talk) 13:42, 2 July 2024 (UTC)