User talk:Celtus/Archive Oct 2007

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Clan MacAulay
A tag has been placed on Clan MacAulay, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the article seems to be about a person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable, that is, why an article about that subject should be included in Wikipedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not assert notability may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, and if you can indicate why the subject of this article is notable, you may contest the tagging. To do this, add  on the top of the page and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm its subject's notability under the guidelines.

For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Turlo Lomon 04:22, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Summer Wanderer
Any reason for the edit at Sorley Boy MacDonnell?--Shtove 20:02, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Yes, the line was too long, but I'd like to keep the info in, maybe as a footnote. The relevance? None, strictly. It's just that in its gaelic and anglicized forms the name is unusual and striking, but has no meaning on its face. And buidhe/boy is translated into English.--Shtove 08:57, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Kyleakin
May I ask why you have removed Clan Akins from Kyleakin. It is the origin of the name. --Vince 08:43, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I stand corrected. The name origin is from the Strait of Haakon and the name Akin existed prior to this. Thanks. This is how Wikipedia works. --Vince 15:33, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Milnes (disambiguation)
You reverted half of my merge; this made Milnes (disambiguation) a partial copy of Milnes. I fail to see how this makes Wikipedia better. We don't need two articles about the same subject, with onomastics in one page and a list of people in another page (actually both pages, since your reversion). I will go and finish the merge again. Chris the speller 03:38, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Murray tartans on IfD
I saw your sandbox. *Very nice* - and particularly to have all the sourcing and the threadcounts and the copyright release in one place with the image. Without doubt, this documentation is something WP should acclaim, and a very good thing.

However, I think that even with regard to the Murray tartans you put up for IfD (here), to me there seems quite a reasonable case, as I've argued on that page (and also set out, rather better formatted, on the image pages themselves), for tagging these as PD-art. But you're obviously very knowledgeable about this, so I'd be interested to see any comments you'd like to add. Jheald 02:16, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The reason i think the two Murray images should be deleted is because they seem to have been just found on the net and uploaded to Wikipedia. I thought they had weaselled their way in by being listed as logos. Also, neither seem to be photos, they both look digital to me. And now after seeing the website that is likely the source, it seems that it is made up of clip art gathered from around the net. I don't understand how it can be assumed the images are in the public domain. - Celtus
 * Well, if I'm right in what I've argued, they should be PD because there's nothing in them sufficiently original to attract copyright in their own right - the images merely faithfully execute a design that's out of copyright. But if I've missed something, that means they should deserve copyright in their own right, do follow up on the IfD page and say so, or ask for further review.  I can see this coming up again, and I'd like to know whether what I've argued is right.  Cheers, Jheald 06:40, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Clan Battles
Hi Celtus, I have created a category for Scottish clan battles. I have added it to the Battle of Glen Fruin page you did. Use it for any other clan battles you do. However I think it should be used for battles which were not associated with the Civil Wars involving the Crown etc... Psycotics1454 21:06, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Image:MacQueen (k4r14k4r14k28y2) -2-2, s1-.png
Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Image:MacQueen (k4r14k4r14k28y2) -2-2, s1-.png, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Image:MacQueen (k4r14k4r14k28y2) -2-2, s1-.png fits the criteria for speedy deletion for the following reason: ' i created and uploaded this image and have uploaded a better version on wikicommons Image:MacQueen tartan (Vestiarium Scoticum).png'  To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Image:MacQueen (k4r14k4r14k28y2) -2-2, s1-.png, please affix the template  to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. --Android Mouse Bot 2 07:22, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Image:Gordon (b60k2b2k2b8k28g52y2g2y4g2y2g52k28b40k2b8) ((1-2,s1)).png
Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Image:Gordon (b60k2b2k2b8k28g52y2g2y4g2y2g52k28b40k2b8) ((1-2,s1)).png, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Image:Gordon (b60k2b2k2b8k28g52y2g2y4g2y2g52k28b40k2b8) ((1-2,s1)).png fits the criteria for speedy deletion for the following reason: ' i created and uploaded this image and have uploaded a better version at the commons, link Image:Gordon tartan (Vestiarium Scoticum).png'  To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Image:Gordon (b60k2b2k2b8k28g52y2g2y4g2y2g52k28b40k2b8) ((1-2,s1)).png, please affix the template  to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. --Android Mouse Bot 2 07:22, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

How to do Commons transfers
Tag the image with after making the upload to commons. See WP:MITC, as well. Daniel Case 04:48, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, didn't realize there were other issues. Daniel Case 13:28, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

DYK
Hi, I've nominated an article you worked on, Ardencaple Castle, for consideration to appear on the Main Page as part of Did you know. You can see the hook for the article at Template talk:Did you know where you can improve it if you see fit. Happy editing! -- Boricua  e  ddie  02:28, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Vestiarium Scoticum
Nice piece of work on the thread counts and illustrations thereof in the V.S. article. You beat me to it. (And saved me a lot of work.) I was only able to find a copy of the Forged Tartans book a couple of weeks ago at a local Highland Games gathering. There should be an additional section to the V.S. article (following the Quarterly Review section) summarising the philological findings in that book. JFPerry 13:43, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Clan MacFie
Thankyou for your improvements to the Clan MacFie page. Much appreciated. Wwwhatsup 03:24, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Prestonpans
See User talk:Rshu. Providing the painting is old enough, we can rip it off! -- RHaworth 10:16, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Norse-Gaels...
...are not the sole property of Scottish or Irish history. How bigotedly nationalist of you to avoid the English inheritance of Gaelic culture. Lord Loxley 04:33, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Intead of writing insults and getting all worked up, you could actually backup your edits with sources. If you can't show that  Mael Maedóc / Marmaduke has anything to do with the Norse-Gaels article than why did you even try to enter it in the article in the first place?--Celtus 06:35, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Why else would it sound sketchy to you, mister Teutonic Celt? You are all about identity politics as it revolves around your own heritage, which you believe is self-contained within the borders of modern-day Celts. You think the definition of a Norse-Gael wraps around you, but fail to consider that it is not a challenge to the integrity of your identity, just perhaps your misconception of the entirety of the Norse-Gaels, which you are not an exemplary descendent of in totality. Let me state it clearly; this was no affront to you. You wear your feelings and intelligence on your skin to find fault, where there is none. North West England is known throughout the internet and is already written of by Wikipedia (e.g. the article in question) as having been settled in part by Norsemen from Ireland. There is no other reasonable source for Marmaduke, so you are the one who is "getting all worked up". There was more than just Marmaduke in Yorkshire during those times, but Marmaduke was the only one that lasted. Another was Gilpatrick, the name of a lord of Middleham at the time of the Domesday Book. In any case, it is true that these old names have no more currency in the North of England. The Celtic identity has slumped very considerably. The question is, why would you want to stifle what is known of them? Be delighted and happy to know the full extent to which the Norse-Gael world was. You risk offending others by the mistaken subconscious dogma of yours that there is no Gaelic-English relationship other than diametric opposition and strife, that there is no shared history. You dream about an imaginary wall of separation between England and Gaelic culture. Lord Loxley 18:46, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry to have gotten you all wound up again, but you entered Mael Maedóc / Marmaduke as being a name as relevant to the the article on Norse-Gaels, and i disagree. Its as simple as that, theres no need to get paranoid, and let fly insults and conspiracy theories. I've honestly never read of Mael Maedóc / Marmaduke having anything to do with the Norse in the British Isles, and you have so far not shown any reference to it either. Your link gives Marmaduke as a likely Anglicisation of Mael Maedóc, which is of Gaelic origin. Also it has Marmaduke as being only ever common "in a small area of North Yorkshire, and is at present almost completely out of fashion". What does that have to do with an article on Norse-Gaels? And then the wiki-links to Marmaduke Constable and Marmaduke Wyvill: a 16th century Yorkshireman and a 19th century chess master; how do they fit into an article on the relation between the Norse and Gaels of the British Isles?--Celtus 04:09, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Clan MacAulay review
I finally got round to finishing the review of Clan MacAulay. I'd be much obliged if you could check that I haven't screwed anything up. It is impressive stuff. Congratulations. Angus McLellan (Talk) 12:46, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Teutonic-Celts
I was wondering where you obtained that "This user is of Teutonic and Celtic ancestry" userbox, and whether I am free to rip it off and put it on my own userpage? Being of Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Flemish, Bavarian, and Swabian ancestry, that userbox fits. Cheers! --- RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive'  04:24, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the response. I'll grab it. ---  RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive'  14:43, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Battle of Bealach na Broige
I really like your article Battle of Bealach na Broige. I think the Munros of Foulis also hold contemporary evidence to prove the battle was in 1452. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Psycotics1454 (talk • contribs) 17:06, 20 July 2007

Clan Logan
Any reason why you removed my article on the Clan MacLennan Controversy from the Clan Logan page? Frank Logan V.P. Clan Logan Society —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.177.43.189 (talk • contribs) 10:15, 24 July 2007


 * I suppose that could be true. I wrote that article, and provided most of the source information within the text. This was also printed in a internationally distributed periodical, and like most magazine pieces, does not have a bibliography. If you would like more sources, or proof of publishment, I would be happy to provide them. And not to be snarky with you, but who do you think provided over 95% of the information on this page, and as V.P. of the only international organization representing this Clan who better to provide information on it? Frank Logan V.P. Clan Logan Society —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.177.43.189 (talk • contribs) 00:54, 26 July 2007


 * What in this is a unquated copy of James Logan's work? ''The first controversy surrounds the tartan which our two clans wear. First recorded in 1831 by writer James Logan (1794-1872), in his book "The Scottish Gael" (ISBN 0 85976 021 9), the name for this tartan was and still is Logan. The only known reference to this tartan beginning it’s association with clan MacLennan, is the MacLennan print by R. R. McIan. McIan (1803-1856), was the mastermind behind "The Clans of The Scottish Highlands" (ISBN 0 907486 38 X) which was published in 1848. McIan, did all of the illustration, while James Logan provided all of the text. The information provided to Logan on the history of clan Logan pointed to an ancient link between the Logan’s and MacLennan’s. There was still room for other explanations. The print for MacLennan, shows a fellow from this clan wearing the Logan tartan, but no name is given to it unlike every other clan tartan shown. Given the style of writing at the time and subtlety's used by both the artist and writer, this is not a surprise and allows them to pay homage to the story of the origin of MacLennan.It should also be noted, that until the early 19th century there were no such thing as “clan” tartans. The Logan tartan would be by consequence clamed by the clan MacLennan. The founder of the MacLennan’s was at best the great grandson of Gilliegorm Logan (a mythical Chief of Clan Logan from circa 1372), and was far removed from the holdings of the clan Logan. The MacLennan were subservient to clans Fraser and MacKenzie at various times. The issue of Chiefly Arms has come up as a point of contention, with the heart of the Bruce being incorporated into the Arms of the MacLennan Chief, being given as proof of relationship. This could however not be farther from the truth. The currant Chief of MacLennan may have a heart in his Arms, but the recorded Arms of the Chiefly line of MacLennan were of a shield argent (silver or white), three piles (long points), sable (black), in chief, and in base, a cross crosslet fitchee, gules (red). The Crest was an arm and broadsword, proper, with the Motto (same as current) Dum Spiro Spero. The Arms and Crest of the old line of MacLennan Chiefs show no regard to Logan heritage at all. The current Chief of clan MacLennan, Ruairidh D. G. MacLennan of MacLennan, has also added to this controversy by stating that the first known of that name was Duncan MacLennan of Strathearn. Duncan is mentioned in a charter of King Alexander II in 1217 as being the Laird of Bombie, and it is through him that the MacLellans are said to have originated (by the MacLennans only). This is over one hundred years before the birth of the child of Gilligorm Logan. This history is further complicated by the mention of Lide MacLennan and his twelve hundred men in the authenticity debated Ossianic poetry, which is purported to be 6th century. St. Adaman is also said to have recorded that they occupied Glenshiel at this time. Other sources on MacLennan, site that the clan was at Eilean Donnan Castle before 1263 and that the MacGillafinnens, or MacLennans, were titled Lords of Loch Erne, Tairg, and Muintir Peodachain. With all of the evidence to suggest that MacLennan are an old and proud clan, and in existence as long or longer than that of Logan, the descendantcy of the current line of MacLennan Chiefs includes none of this. They site their origin to Gille Fhinnein, grandson of Gilligorm Logan, and show no connection to any MacLennan before this time''. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.177.43.189 (talk • contribs) 12:46, 27 July 2007


 * Thank you, and I'm sorry if I came off the wrong way. I'm not very good at email tag. The bulk of the page which I put up was James Logan's text, which I acknowledged, with a header and a brief look at other new Logan information, including DNA research. James Logan's research has been misquoted and much copied on many clan related sites, which is why I added the whole text. Frank Logan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.177.43.189 (talk • contribs) 19:43, 28 July 2007