User talk:Ceoil/Archive 7

Losing control
According to IMDB if I want to see Control this month I have to go to either New York City or Los Angeles. I feel like saying something very profane right now. WesleyDodds 09:41, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Noise: WesleyDodds 12:34, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * My introduction to the genre is murkier and far more mundane. I remember hearing "Losing My Religion" and "Give it Away" on the radio when they came out. I only found out who Nirvana was when I saw a news announcement that Kurt Cobain killed himself. I suppose my first proper introduction to alt/indie/college rock (after I had an idea of what it was) was . . . when this premired. And that was the first time I heard the Smashing Pumpkins. WesleyDodds 00:45, 7 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I always find it amusing how people are always so attracted to Kim Deal. Not, that I disagree, but . . . it's curious. By the way, ever see them in concert? I saw them during their initial 14-date reunion tour back in 2004. I'll tell you the story about that sometime. WesleyDodds 00:55, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Articles you might find useful:, , . WesleyDodds 03:13, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I have this. You should have it too. WesleyDodds 10:54, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Depends on what kind of goth you are. Went to a goth club once; got up and danced and everything. The mag compiles articles, interviews, and reviews from NME and Melody Maker from the late 1970s to 1992. I've used that to cite The Cure and Joy Division quite a bit. Worth the money I paid for it, definitely. I met Rollins after a spoken word performance in my second year of college. He seemed slightly embarassed that I called him "Mr. Rollins". Signed my Damaged CD, that he did. WesleyDodds 11:01, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Been meaning to ask your thoughts on the Stone Roses. Overrated yet still good, in my opinion. WesleyDodds 22:05, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * American version of the first album has the shorter version of "Elephant Stone" as track three, which creates one of the finest four-song sequences I have ever heard open up an album (the only other one that comes immediately to mind is Zen Arcade). Happy Mondays are just overrated. Charlatans wrote one really great song ("White Shirt") and one really good one {"The Only One I Know"). WesleyDodds 22:19, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * i got out of the shower less than an hour ago. I'll be at the record shop in a few hours to buy a birthday gift for a friend anyways. WesleyDodds 22:38, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Huh. WesleyDodds 23:39, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

It's the weekend again. Let's start this. This debate about puctuation and the Wiki MOS has become amusing to me now because I'm essentially being told to not do what I spent four years and thousands of dollars of aid and loans studying what I have to do to earn that scrap of paper. So I can use American spelling or British spelling in relevant Wiki articles but I can't use American punctuation at all? At this point all I have to say is "Really . . . ? F***ing seriously?" WesleyDodds 02:24, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi Wesley... just to intrude on your section, I totally agree. The bullshit and trivia that people argue about around here will, I'm sure, be one of the reasons I leave, when and if I do. It's a matter of punctuation style in quoted material? That is what is causing the long debate? A number of people telling you that despite the options available in English writing, you must follow what they say? Then the "MoS BOSS" barges in with a classy one-liner. It's just too small to matter, and I can't for the life of me figure out why people latch on to these non-debates. I find it frightening. People want consistency across Wikipedia, so they start with the most banal, unimportant fluff that no educated, outside reader will ever give a goddamn about? I think those outside readers are more interested in non-vandalized, well-researched articles than they are in the style obsessions of a few. (Does the average web page reader open up the page's CSS sheet to see if the best stylesheet practices are being used? Same difference.) You got me on a rant, man. – Outriggr § 02:37, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Don't freak me out Outriggr with talk of leaving. Some readers listen, some don't. Walk past smiling content, and well...Ceoil 02:46, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I first and foremost see my purpose on Wikipedia as being a researcher and that's what's essentially kept me from being frustrated by the bureaucracy that causes others to butt their heads against the walls repeatedly. I sit down and research s**t; it's what I do and I like doing it. Then something comes along that does impact me (after all I prefer to quote a source directly instead of paraphrasing when possible) and, well . . . it's best for me not to actually touch the page until this all settles. Which I'm anxious about, since I want to clean up any lingering after effects of Main Page Day, but I'll probably twist myself in knots if I even glance at the history right now. Might I have to take a trip to the MOS talk page and start challenging the guidelines? Ehh . . . I have better things to do. Like buy food for a potluck tomorrow. And listen to Joy Division.
 * That's the best way to handle it, I agree. – Outriggr § 02:59, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, and Ceoil: Did you know Swans did a cover of "Love Will Tear Us Apart"? Haven't heard it yet, but I am very curious. WesleyDodds 02:53, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * (I imagine that cover being pretty disturbing, from what I've heard of the Swans. – Outriggr § 02:59, 13 October 2007 (UTC) )
 * Ah, found it.


 * Also: WesleyDodds 08:42, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

A bit of a mess after I did some shoddy merging last night, but it shouldn't be too hard to fix up and source. WesleyDodds 21:48, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Status update: It's starting to look respectable. I can as least have it ready for GAC by the end of the month if you want time later to work on it. WesleyDodds 09:50, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm getting worn out by ridiculous talk page debates on articles this week. Let's have a ridiculous but rewarding debate here instead. WesleyDodds 21:54, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * For comedic value, yes. The Cult is alright. That is, except for the times they were crap. WesleyDodds 11:04, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * How about Southern Death Cult? "Fatman" is good. WesleyDodds 11:09, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Nope. Not sure I need to see reunited Pixies on video. I saw them on their tour, after all. I do own the other DVD (the one just called Pixies). Guys like Bowie and the members of Radiohead talking about how they ar elike the voice of god. Which is acceptable coming from the latter, since they came later, but when you consider the former . . . In short, Bowie needs to stop phoning it in. But not as much as R.E.M., admittedly WesleyDodds 11:19, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Speaking of Bono, I have this compilation of Hannett-produced tracks. The liner notes include a review for "11 o' Clock Tick-Tock" or whatever the hell it's called, from way back in 1979. One of the writers says it sounds like Joy Division meets Patti Smith, while the other called them the post-punk Yardbirds in a backhanded fashion. Somewhat snarky, all told. WesleyDodds 11:27, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Didn't you have an interest in working Martin Hannett at some point? WesleyDodds 11:40, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

So's mine. Just saying, when Joy Division is finally done I can easily shift focus to a related topic. Maybe Unknown Pleasures? WesleyDodds 11:46, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * By the way: H.D.? Rather fetching. WesleyDodds 11:52, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * As do I. Is there a userbox for this sort of thing? WesleyDodds 11:56, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * This is the core rationale for inventing time travel: so we can lust after women from the past without feeling weird. And I figure I'd try and pass off some future pop hits as my own in the process. Mark my words, soon I will be remembered as "That guy that did those songs about making deals with God and playing cards back in 1961." WesleyDodds 12:05, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Off to bed now. Might want to take a look at this, see if there's anything else citable. Also: found out where Control is playing near me. Going to attempt to see it next weekend. Also: I should try going to bed at a reasonable hour for my time zone sometime. WesleyDodds 12:11, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

The way I see it, if you like the video to "Atmosphere" you'll probably like the movie. Movie critics are pretty much bestotted with the film. Ignore the hyperbolic music press praising (or damning) the film, because, after all, they review music for a living, not movies. WesleyDodds 21:53, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * So, I see you're listening to Morrissey lyrics today. WesleyDodds 22:08, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The hell? WesleyDodds 05:36, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * How's this ? WesleyDodds 05:39, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I see your Prefab Sprout and raise you one New Pop-era Orange Juice video . WesleyDodds 06:36, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Honestly when I looked up that video right now, that was the first time I'd heard that song. I'm far more familiar with their Postcard stuff, but this has its charms. WesleyDodds 06:40, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * For when you're relaxing and sipping some tea in the morning: WesleyDodds 07:59, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Waiting for what? WesleyDodds 10:27, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Got distracted today. Still need to work their Nazi fixation back in and rewrite some bits. Also, the lead is crap; have to rewrite. Tomorrow, I say. WesleyDodds 10:30, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Or we could say "Really liked Berlin-era Bowie but didn't quite grasp subtlety yet." Anyway, still have to work it in. By the way, who shouted "You all forgot Rudolph Hess!", Ian or Sumner? Don't really care myself, but there's confusion about it. Deborah Curtis seems to think it's Ian. Good night for now; when I get up I better see that Ulyssess poem promoted and on the front page. With bells ringing and all that. WesleyDodds 10:40, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Utterly sensible actions to take when on drugs and dancing to electronic music in front of a camera, I say. Not that I would know; I don't do either. Talk to you in a bit. WesleyDodds 10:44, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You should try it. Ceoil 10:52, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Hey
You can't just remove one, my numbers won't add up :-) The citations list adds to 523, and we track the stats; when we remove one, we have to have consensus that it's a Keep, so others don't randomly remove articles :-)  Besides, we want to give you credit! I put a note on the talk page; unless someone Objects, we'll move it to keep. You're testing to see if I'm paying attention, right? Sandy Georgia (Talk) 01:23, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * ... Marskell likes to track his numbers, and they all add up so nicely (started at 523 total) :-) Basically, we propose moves on the talk page, wait a few days to make sure no one Objects, and then move it off to the Keep list, giving you credit at the same time.  Best, Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 01:37, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You and the statisticians; OK, what we *really* want is to add up the Keeps, not just take 'em off :-) Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 01:40, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * As soon as Marskell surfaces, we'll do it "properly". Best, Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 01:48, 6 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Welcome back. the preceding edit was left unsigned by Outriggr late at night, after 2 pints and 4 trips to the bathroom. Seemingly/embarrasingly he was too drunk hit the sig switch. Luckly Shamebot (talk • contribs) cleaned up this whole sorry mess. 03:34, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Will ya'll *please* let me in on the Friday night thingie? Ya'll need Friday night baseball playoffs in Ireland! Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 03:43, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Sandy, you know there is no cabal! Geesh. Oh, is it safe to assume Ceoil was joking when he said he was an accountant on your page? – Outriggr  § 05:15, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * If he was trying to make me forget that there's no cabal with accountant jokes, we should teach him some good lawyer jokes.   Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 05:22, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, he's snubbing us now, but that's what I would expect from an artsy Irish lawyer-accountant. – Outriggr § 05:50, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Guys please, I'm trying to sleep. I will make a statement when I awake. Ceoil 10:57, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * If you keep talking that way, I'm going to have to report you to Tony. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 13:13, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * My statement is this: Outriggr you have displeased me. Your out, Sandy is in. Sandy, you will find me a tough but mercyful overlord. Ceoil 18:05, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Irish overlords ... hmmm ... I see you missed what I went through in the last six weeks at FAR :-) Whatdya mean no one's smiling?  The ball game's on !  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 22:56, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No can do. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 23:10, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * LOL, how the heck would I know? That's why we have admin cabals :-)  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 23:16, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

(outdent) Should I moon someone? Sandy Georgia (Talk) 23:28, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar

 * Green with envy, an accountant with high culture !!!  Nice work :-)  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 17:58, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Have a grrreeeeeeaaaaaaaaaatttttttt week!


has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing! Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

DYK
A DYK today?—good job. We can't all aspire to this level of DYKishness, I'm afraid. On any given day, most of Wikipedia remains DYKless. – Outriggr § 23:25, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't have any DYKs on my talk page; there are probably some in my archives, though.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 23:37, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * HA!! – Outriggr § 23:42, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Inquiring minds want to know!   Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 23:46, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank god you showed up Sandy; I was starting to feel neglected and lonely with only the internets and poor auld Outriggr for company. Anything strange? Ceoil 23:47, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell, everything is within normal bounds of strangeness.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 23:51, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well so, thats the way; let just keeping on doing what we are doing; Kicking Against the Pricks. Ceoil 23:56, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That's right, I forgot that, when we ended last week, Sandy was now your No. 2 and I'd been relegated to the {insert Britishism here}. But that implies that I ever was subordinate, Master Ceoil, so you can have all the numbered helpers you want, and I'll just be Auld Outriggr. – Outriggr § 23:58, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I be very careful with words like 'Britishism's if I was you. Ceoil 21:48, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I recall something about Irish Overlords :-) Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 00:02, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The concept of an Irish overlord making all your choices and decisions for you is much less distastefull once you realise that you need us (me); and this is our burden, and we anyway we (I) forgive you for you your weakness. Ceoil 00:08, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Sandy Georgia (Talk) 00:23, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

A good plan. Let's collaborate on an article! Or is that harder than it sounds, edit conflicts and all? – Outriggr § 23:35, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You are aware of the concept of fractions in the new world, right. So ye both are no2; but some of ye are no2 more than others. Sandy is no2 1/3, Outriggr is no2 1/4. Ceoil 00:01, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * New math works for me! Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 00:08, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Outriggr is MIA; better elevate him to 2 7/24. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 00:28, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

A good plan. Let's collaborate on an article! Or is that harder than it sounds, edit conflicts and all? – Outriggr § 23:35, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Very nice. I'm gonna see what I can find re Wine Glass. – Outriggr § 23:45, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

What to do with Outriggr
Sandy, I agree with your suggestion in principal, but there must be a simpler way to classify him. ;-) He's writing some great articles recently, and I'm leaning towards mercy. Ceoil 00:32, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Forget the articles; I'm waiting to see what kind of wine he shows up with. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 00:37, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Lol; you read my mind. Ceoil 00:39, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I think he went to France (or California) to get it :-) Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 00:40, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * But that's fine too, as long as he doest turn up with some dodgy German stuff. Ceoil 00:41, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Or Argentine. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 00:44, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Wine grapes03.jpg|100px|thumb|left|only outside day light]]

Agree, assumuing you are not one of those 'only at christmass' white wine people. Ceoil 00:48, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * What the hell, he could turn up with methylated spirits after work like this. Ceoil 00:52, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * (ec) Sorry Overlord and No. 2, I was off trying to collaborate on an article. That's what happens with me and group projects. Geez. Yeah, I'll get some wine. How about some nice ice wine from the Okanagan Valley? – Outriggr § 00:58, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * thumb|right|Forget the wine.Great. While he's doing art history, I'm reading about cheap wine; he's trying to steal my fraction.  Drat!  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 00:57, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Mmm, its all about my mood cycle these days tbh; it has fek all to do with contributions, really. Cheap wine, spirits, whatever. I'll let ye fight this one amongst yerselves; which ever survives, come back to me, no 2 1/1. I don't really care; I'm a bit bored now to be honest. Can you dance or juggle? Or do magic tricks? Ceoil 01:04, 13 October 2007 (UTC)




 * As if I could afford a whole pint a week. Ceoil 01:10, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Leipnizkeks; that'll get 'ya. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 01:19, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No never tried it. Usually it's Żywiec that brings moments of clarity. Ceoil 01:21, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Sure, I'm on. Does the poem hold a particular attraction for you? Haven't read it (yet). – Outriggr § 02:02, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Another DYK? Gosh, I'm calling it a day. I just took a quick peek at FAC to see if I was ready to wade back in, and it was far worse than I expected. I guess Tony hasn't been watching either, and some of the Supports are fairly shocking. Perhaps staying away from there has been a good idea after all. 'Night! Sandy Georgia (Talk) 02:40, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I told you he had it in him (DYK). Good night! :) – Outriggr § 02:43, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * "I am apologizing to Ceoil, unless my apology is offered on a Monday UTC, in which case my apology is a non-apology apology", said Outriggr, who does not tell the truth on Mondays UTC, unless he is offering an apology. – Outriggr § 02:02, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Did you accept my apology or not? – Outriggr § 23:27, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Its hard to tell from the internets if you are on your knees or not. Ceoil 03:48, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you for the YouTube video of The Divine Comedy singing Wordsworth. I'd never have found it! --Wetman 23:20, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article review/Punk rock/archive1
Hi. I was reviewing this which you contributed to back in January in the light of an argument I am currently having about some style issues at Talk:Punk rock. I wondered if you would have an opinion on:
 * 1) Whether the images as currently used are in compliance with our fair use policy?
 * 2) Whether the use of terms like "seminal" is good practice in the light of WP:PEACOCK?

I'm sorry to ask about something from so long ago, but another editor is using the FAR (in which you were a major participant) to justify reverting my modifications to the article, which centre around these two areas. Thanks in advance for any help you can give. --John 22:53, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * ah, came to alert you to same :-) Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 23:07, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

hi
Hello deft Delft devotee. I am OK, thanks, but I have already been contacted by Interpol since you put a fair-use image on my user page! (Though it's a 1921 painting so I'm not sure if its image-page designation is correct.) Re your edit comment, there was no in-joke, I'm just following the rules... which your chiaroscuro pair up top are not (and why can't they have more defined hair? It's off-putting!). – Outriggr § 21:15, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Does this edit satisfy your problem with the sentence? – Outriggr § 03:06, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Too funny! It's not often I really laugh out loud at the wikipedia, but that did it. Continuing along these lines would actually be more fun than regular editing -- maybe we should try that joke wikipedia web site whose name I can't think of. (All this self-reference is very appropriate as I'm reading I Am A Strange Loop right now.) – Outriggr § 03:29, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Stopped. Have you turned into the magic reference bunny? Are these from a certain Q site? – Outriggr § 07:27, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Ulysses
It looks a lot better, but it would be nice if there was a bit more standardisation between the "How dull it is pause, to make an end, / to rust unburnish’d, not to shine in use!" method of quotation and

perserverance, my dear lord, Keeps honour bright: to have done is to hang Quite out of fashion, like a rusty mail, In monumental mockery.

As it stands, the block quotes are serving to give emphasis mainly to the non-Tennyson lines, which is a little awkward. I also still think that a little more Tennyson would not go amiss - maybe a sidebox, like used in W. S. Gilbert? Please don't get me wrong - by no means is this a bad article. It just needs that last bit of polish before FA. Adam Cuerden talk 16:43, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay! Adam Cuerden talk 16:47, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Drat, I can't remember either... Try WP:VP? Adam Cuerden talk 17:55, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

H. D.
I had just gotten to H.D.! I was going to review it today. I'm so sorry - I feel so guilty. What can I do instead? Copy edit? Awadewit | talk  18:52, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Etheral
F**k yes. I actually was meaning to ask you what you thought of it, but I forgot. (And isn't adding subtitles to Liz Frasier singing missing the point?) WesleyDodds 20:35, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Nice observation. Its the only song I've heard from her where the lyrics matter anything. Ceoil 03:22, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, it is a cover after all. WesleyDodds 04:24, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Most of the origional versions of the songs from the 1st this mortal coil album are far better (big star!), but i always found tim buckly too sugary and emotive. Ceoil 04:27, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I decided to finally sit down and listen to some Jeff Buckley a while back. I wasn't all that impressed. And he's supposed to be better than his dad. WesleyDodds 04:30, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The revolving robin gutrey had me falling of my seat. He's hardly dream boat material is he. Ceoil 04:32, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * As far as I can see, with Jeff Buckley, theres only Grace, and a few hundred outtakes and reissues. Ceoil 04:33, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Off to get some dinner. Be back in like an hour, when I'll try to finish up my work on the Joy Division temp page. Meanwhile, you should listen to "Aikea-Guinea" twenty times. Just because. WesleyDodds 04:39, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Its monday morning here, "Aikea-Guinea" is way too happy for this kind of thing. I'm listening to "Berlin", the Nico version. Ceoil 04:42, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm back. Listen to "Disorder" then. WesleyDodds 05:42, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I'll move the temp material over, if you take a stab at expanding/rewriting the lead. Deal? WesleyDodds 09:28, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Also; not sure how to incorporate these:, WesleyDodds 09:40, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

bleh
Hi Ceoil, after an evening's work—you know what? I'd like to ask you to withdraw the nom. Not because it can't become a featured article, but because it isn't worth it! As long as it's nominated, I'm going to feel compelled to address the laundry lists, yet I have no desire to do so. I sincerely fear this turning into a theatre-of-the-absurd school assignment in which four teachers all say to do the opposite of the other. If this continues, pass or fail, the experience will drive me away. I'd rather be able to enjoy the place occasionally then have this overwrought process send me off tired. Let's not pretend there aren't different featured article standards for different subjects—so when you combine a somewhat unprecedented article-type with the particularly high standards circulating among the lit crowd (as opposed to, say, the Halo crowd), you get a recipe that calls for a big sense of obligation, a sad attempt to rescue pride, and little to no enjoyment. Sorry it turned out this way. – Outriggr § 05:55, 22 October 2007 (UTC) I'll be a little more specific: "I have no desire to do so" while the thing is listed at FAC. Awadewit's comments are helpful, and I could spend a number of hours, each, on some of them. She still has valid points from her previous round of comments. Not to mention my own ideas for improvement. I'm not much for bandaids, these things for me become "back to the drawing board"... perfectionism kills, so I'll likely never be the main writer of a featured article. I'm not suggesting you can't do what you want, because of course, you can... – Outriggr § 07:48, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

MF
I dare you WesleyDodds 10:29, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Punk rock, et al
Hey, Ceoil, I missed a lot because of only a few days travel; I'm struggling still to catch up. I don't think I thanked you for the nice barnstar, although it's possible that I did and don't remember :-)   Thanks for your kindness, and I'm sorry I missed the FAC you submitted for Outriggr, and anything else I may have missed.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 16:47, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Satisfaction
Why did you remove the covers section? Stan weller 21:24, 27 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Fair enough, but some of the covers are quite famous and should be included, like those by Otis Redding and Devo. Stan weller 21:45, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Chatting
It's good for a laugh. WesleyDodds 02:50, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Saw Control last night. Very good, although Anton Corbijn isn't that good at implying how much time has passed when switching scenes. WesleyDodds 02:51, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That was so formal. WesleyDodds 08:20, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Tired at the moment from my trip. Will get to the FAR tomorrow. The main thing I notice is that similar articles that may have served as a model to aim for in improving the article are in many instances delisted FAs. The best guide to follow that I seem right now is Turkish literature. WesleyDodds 08:38, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * While I'm not as well-versed with Irish poetry as you (did you study it at university or is it just personal interest? You can e-mail me the answer if you choose), I can pitch in if you need it. WesleyDodds 08:49, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Are the instruments supposed to be mixed that low? WesleyDodds 08:58, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, I saw your support vote for the Cilian Murphy FAC. I read where he hails from and then said, "Of course". WesleyDodds 09:11, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Speaking of YouTube, compare and contrast:,. Same director, by the way. WesleyDodds 00:21, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Gibson Girl, eh? WesleyDodds 22:27, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

This week's collaboration. Have at it, if you may. WesleyDodds 21:04, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Great song . WesleyDodds 05:32, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Picked up Mojo this week, mainly for the Anton Corbijn article on Control and the always-amusing Liam Gallagher interview. There's a column about "albums that changed my life", so Paul Banks writes about Ritual de lo Habitual. Haven't read the Suicide article yet. WesleyDodds 07:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Let me guess: you had one of the t-shirts. WesleyDodds 08:53, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I forgive you. WesleyDodds 09:36, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * One of these days I'm going to tackle both the band article and the first album page. But I've got to finish Joy Division and R.E.M. first. WesleyDodds 09:40, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Is there really anything else to add to that one though? That way I see it, it's complete, but there's not enough reference material in existence to fulfill FA requirements. I guess it could always go to Peer Review. WesleyDodds 09:47, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I guess my main problem was I always felt it was too short, but realisticly that's not an issue with FAs; comprehensiveness is. I'll put it up at Peer Review and see what the feedback is.


 * Favorite song of the moment: "The Spangle-Maker". I honestly never really listened to it before until yesterday, when I had my iPod on shuffle and I just happened upon it. WesleyDodds 09:55, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I have the first Lullabies to Violaine volume, and it is an intriguing listen. Not always great, but when it is you realize just how perfect Fraser's voice can be even if her singing isn't "proper". Still kind of weirded out when I see videos of her; she really does look like an elf come to life. WesleyDodds 10:01, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * American former goth kids who picked through grunge and shoegaze: here's an album track you might like . Ignore the misguided fools in the mosh pit. WesleyDodds 10:10, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm ready when you are. WesleyDodds 10:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Give me a minute. I'm listening to "The Spangle-Maker" again. WesleyDodds 10:57, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, after I'm done with "Aikea-Guinea". WesleyDodds 11:01, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * BTY, my NME Goth issue saw it fit to include Cocteau Twins in its scope, so that means I have old interviews and reviews. WesleyDodds 11:05, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks like you need to throw out some of the infoboxes. WesleyDodds 11:20, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually it's "Dum dum, dum dum, dum dum, dumdumdumdumdumdumdumdum." In unrelated news, my iPod just started playing "This Corrosion". WesleyDodds 11:45, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Alright, I'm off to bed. WesleyDodds 12:01, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

sex pistols template
Hello,

I appreciate your efforts watching the Sex Pistols template for vandalism.

However, I intend to revert your reversion. This is because the proper navigation template for navigation in bands does not use centering. See here: Template:Navbox_musical_artist. See examples here: Metallica Pink Floyd.

Currently Sex Pistols use non-standard template. I'm changing that.

Cheers ASN 21:10, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

George Moore
Are you finished with George Moore (novelist) as I see we are having an edit conflict? I just did a whole lot of reformatting of the citations and when I went to save it you had already made and saved some changes. BTW you are not using proper citations for the reference you have been adding, especially for an FA. They should be in the format as shown here whether web site book, etc. Reply here as I watch the page where I start a post. At least someone else wants to keep this as an FA too. Thanks. ww2censor 22:01, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * (moved here from my talk page) Did you save your changes in a txt? If so, just paste over my version and I can restore the refs later. I had an edit conflict with you too earlier, very annoying; but I'll leave the page alone for an hour or so, and let you work away. Ceoil 22:05, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Annoying indeed, but as I said I was pleased to see someone else working on it. I did save the changes but I will just insert where them where they belong and fix the citations as I go along. Thanks for the hour. Let's see if we can save this one from demotion. Cheers ww2censor 22:09, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh and I never use templates for cites, they are not required, add unnecessary html, are hard to follow, and give inconsistent results. I'll likely revert any you add. Ceoil 22:08, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That is an issue as I was given a hard time when under an FAC. If you don't mind, please keep all the talk in one place. I really hate it being broken up. ww2censor 22:11, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Will you ask for the time? I was not really peeved just that during my FAC for Postage stamps of Ireland I really had to jump through some hoops to get the citations right and even needed help with it, so I was just surprised that you would use then the way i was told not to. Anyway, let's see if we can fix it up a bit. Citations are needed first and then some copyedit seems in order. Cheers and thanks for the coop. ww2censor 22:16, 2 November 2007 (UTC)