User talk:Champmasters

Welcome
Hello  and welcome to Wikipedia! I am Ukexpat and I would like to thank you for your contributions.  ''Click here to reply to this message.''  ukexpat (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:James_masters_sr_and_fellow_officer_savor_okinawa_victory.jpg
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File copyright problem with File:James_m_masters_sr_(R)_at_about_7_with_bros._john_(bud)_and_youngest_william_(bill).jpg
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File copyright problem with File:James_m_masters_sr_(captain)_Johnston_Is._1942.jpg
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File copyright problem with File:The_masters_bros_james_john_(bud)_and_youngest_william_(bill).jpg
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File copyright problem with File:Archibald j kengla - grandfather on mothers side-enh.jpg
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File copyright problem with File:Bayonet_tony_biddle_training_marines,_parris_island_sc,_1942.jpg
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File copyright problem with File:Tony_biddle_2nd_from_left_and_wife_cordelia_rundell_bradley_biddle_on_steps_in_flowered_dress-1935_kentucky_derby.jpg
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File copyright problem with File:Tony_biddle_jr._2nd_from_left_and_mother_cordelia_rundell_bradley_biddle_on_steps_in_flowered_dress-1935_kentucky_derby.jpg
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File copyright problem with File:Pearl-harbor-attack-map.jpg
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Re: Repairing link to disambiguation page Re: James M. Masters, Sr.
Honestly, you don't have to do anything. :) I simply disammed a link. If you click on the "You can help" link it'll tell you what that means. --User:Woohookitty Disamming fool! 12:23, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

For Bahamut0013
I don't recognize my unfinished article after your so-called "minor edit". Prior to your wholesale changes (to both pictures and text), I had sought reviews (since December 22, 2009) of existing and former Marines (officers and enlisted, including those in the Marine Corps University Foundation and Library of the Marine Corps in Quantico) -- as well as civilians who knew James M. Masters, Sr.. All of them universally found the article to be excellent -- without need of modifications. My 'query' to you yesterday on the US Marine Corps page, was a courtesy seeking advice, not a licensed request for wholesale modifications. I'm surprised that you made wholesale changes (under the name of 'minor edit') without so much as as a 'how do you do' to me. Please let's resolve this issue amicably so that I may complete the article in its entirety, as originally planned.--Man on the Roof (talk) 18:50, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


 * First, if you had a message for me, it would have been better to leave it on my talk page. I might have actually seen it in short order.
 * Second, I never claimed a "minor" edit. My edit summary specifically noted that it was "major cleanup".
 * Third, the article has some major issues. If it was not yet complete, you should not have moved it into articlespace. As it stands, leaving incomplete work on Wikipedia is at best unprofessional, and at worst will confuse and misinform readers.
 * Wikipedia has a number of policies and guidelines that govern how to write and edit articles, and I made several strides to bring the article within compliance. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a historical archive or family library. The tone was not encyclopedica, it did not have a neutral point of view in many aspects, original research, verification and sourcing issues, and numerous style issues. You may wish to read Manual of Style (biographies) and WikiProject Military history/Style guide.
 * Finally, it is not "your" article. Right under the "Save Page" button is a disclaimer that says "If you do not want your writing to be edited, used, and redistributed at will, then do not submit it here." No editor owns an article, even the origional author; I have no obligation whatsoever to introduce myself to anyone before editing (with the exception being edits that may conflict with consensus). The "wholesale modifications" were quite necessary... There are deletionists who regularly patrol new content, and given the number of issues, would not have hesitated to have the article deleted.
 * The reviews of others are not particularly relevant; this is Wikipedia and we do things differently than you are probably used to. If the constrictions on content for Wikipedia are not to your liking, you can feel free to look into the page history to salvage your origional edits and submit to a historical journal or the like. Personally, I would like to see more of your edits; I'm entirely willing to help clean them up while you learn the ropes (there is a lot to learn and it can be pretty intimidating to learn all of it). You seem to have access to a great wealth of raw data, and it would be a loss to see them go so soon.
 * Sorry for the length of this message, I've tried to make it newbie-friendly. Please take the time to read it, and read the relevant policies before you dash off an emotional reply (on my talk page, if you would please; I don't plan on checking your talk page for a reply, but leaving one on mine will trigger an alert for me).  bahamut0013  words deeds 01:50, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Another note: while not explicitly forbidden, it is bad form for your signature's name to differ significantly from your username due to the possibility of confusion or impersonation. You can request to change it if you like.  bahamut0013  words deeds 01:55, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I had a suspicion that you were related to the subject... I'm not particularly concerned about conflict of interest, but you can bet that others would be; my advice is not to mention it to anyone else.
 * It is unfortunate that nobody took the chance to review your request for feedback. However, surely you can't mistake silence for consent. You merely slipped through the cracks, and I was the first one to take notice. You can bet that these changes would have happened sooner or later... or worse, the article deleted.
 * There is certainly room for more content, though I should say that 75+ images is not going to work. You could try uploading them to Wikimedia Commons, and we can use the template commonscat to link a gallery. I should also note that images that don't feature the subject of a biography are rarely appropriate for that biographical article (i.e. the map of Pearl Harbor); so you could reasonably replace the two images that don't even show Masters Sr. with some that do. I think that a photo with FDR would fit right in with the section about Warm Springs.
 * But again, much of what you called "meaningful" isn't really appropriate for Wikipedia. While certainly good writing, and quite colorful, it's not really encyclopedia material. If this isn't what you really want with your work, then you won't be happy with editing Wikipedia; I'm afraid I can't think of any other alternatives on the web. I'm sure that the Marine Corps Historical Division would love to feature an article in thier magazine Fortitudine, or perhaps the Marine Corps Gazette.
 * But like I said before, it would be a loss for you to leave and take everything with you (the average biography lacks the rich background because we just don't have the resouces you have for everyone. For example, Thomas Holcomb is pretty dry... it is supposed to be, to a degree, but I think a bit of color is welcome). I offered before that you keep writing, and I will help integrate what I can into the article. Try using a sandbox in your userspace again: User:Champmasters/sandbox. When you have some more content that you're happy with, I will apply the red pen of policy and we can work something out.  bahamut0013  words deeds 12:15, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Look, this is a matter of policy, not negotiation or confidence. By saving an edit on Wikipedia, you're agreeing to release it to the mercy of anyone who happens upon it (the licenses are noted under the edit from), and I was merely the first. I believe you are under the misconception that you can control the article after you hit that "save page" button; again, I suggest you read Ownership of articles.
 * Another misconception appears that your work was validated because nobody came before me to tell you what would and would not work. The article as written did not meed the standards of Wikipedia regarding original research, neutrality, and verfibility. You are shocked at my lack of regard for the reviews of other, but I don't regard it because they have much different standards. What was a grand article for thier purposes is not a proper encyclopedia entry for Wikipedia. Negotiationg with me is fruitless because there is nothing to negotiate: what doesn't belong on Wikipedia will be removed (if not by me, then by others; if not right away, then eventually). It will change, it will grow, it will shrink, it will be folded, bent, and mutiliated, it will be polished, and maybe even featured one day. It's the wiki way.
 * If that's not for you, then that's unfortunate. However, there isn't much middle ground to hold (Argument to moderation); either it's appropriate or it's not. I cannot apologize for that, and while I'm willing to help you write more content that falls in line with policy, I understand that you're already leery of that. If that means you're not willing to contribute anything else, then so be it; I will bid you a reluctant farewell and wish you well in your future writing endeavors. As I said before, this is not what I desire, but I'm not going to try to force a square peg into a round hole.  bahamut0013  words deeds 19:10, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, that sounds like we're getting on the same page. But some of the specific details need to be worked out. For example, the style guide maintains that ranks are all lowercase unless prefixing a name. The word "tipsy" may not be neutral (and frankly, sounds silly IMO), though I probably should have used "inebriated" from the start (I believe that word allows for the varying severity, which seems to be your intent). Those are all minor details, but worth haggling over. It would be better to work those kinds of things out at the article's talk page, so that the record is associated with the article. Simple spelling and grammatical changes, of course, are a no-brainer; I know that I'm not perfect in that regard.
 * I'd have to see what other photos you had in mind, but I would have to insist on something more formal and recent than the Johnston Island photo. Traditionally, the most up to date official photo or portrait is used because it shows the individual at the apex of his or her career, with the most current awards shown in a formal setting (also, without anything else that would clutter up the image, such as other people or backgrounds). If you have something else that achieves the same effect, feel free to upload it. I can always crop or otherwise modify an image if necessary, or you could make a request at the graphic lab. To be honest, I don't really see what's wrong with the current image; it is quite consistant with most of the other articles regarding Marine generals.
 * I think the transcript would be the top priority. verification is one of our most important policies. However, Wikipedia is not necessarily the avenue for uploading what I'm guessing will consist of many many pages, including documents. I believe Wikisource would be the best avenue for that, but I've never used it, so I can't really give you any advice there. If you have digital audio of the interview, you can upload that to Wikimedia Commons and we can link to it in the article. In fact, any future uploads (to include images) really should be on Commons. I think a good example of this would be Embassy of the United States in Tehran, which links to Documents seized from the U.S. Embassy in Tehran in the lower right corner (all of which are images hosted on Commons).
 * I think the number of images would depend on a great number of things. For one, the size of the article once we finalize content will be the main deciding factor. The article muct be able to be read from many different screen resolutions without overlapping or chopping up the text, so the only way to be sure is to experiment and preview it. I'm thinking that in general, each section could use one or two. In its current state, for example, I would be quite comfortable with adding one each to the Chine, Interim, and Post-war sections. I also have to not that I dislike the images that don't depict the subject of the biographical article, hence why the Pearl Harbor image wasn't appropriate (and why we link to the Attack on Pearl Harbor article instead). That's more of a personal issue than a guideline, but I know it's a popular notion (I did similar things as a rookie editor myself, where I explained/described unrelated content instead of merely linking to it and had it ripped out by others as irrelevant to the subject). So, sure, post your list of the photos and maybe we can pick some out together. Like I suggested before, you can also upload them all to a category in Commons and link to the gallery in the article; that will make picking them out much simpler.
 * I apologize if I at all made you think I was assuming bad faith from you. I know that you have nothing but the best intentions in mind, as do I; it is merely in the method of approach to that goal that we differ. You're trying to honor the legacy of your father, and I respect that (WP:NOTMEMORIAL notwithstanding, which I think is a poor policy). My intent is just to keep it in line with the standards, a lesson I learned the hard way. My first article was nominated for deletion under WP:NOTMEMORIAL, and I barely managed to save it by stripping from it heavily; that's why I'm pretty aggressive about this kind of issue: I'd rather have a stripped-down article than none at all. I'm sure you can appreciate that.
 * Since we seem to be on the same sheet of music here, we should move our discussion of the details onto the article's talk page.  bahamut0013  words deeds 19:20, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, and would you do me a favor? I would be appreciative if you didn't address my by my rank. I wouldn't want to give anyone the idea that I'm acting in any sort of official capacity; I don't carry the authority of nor speak for the Marine Corps in my edits on Wikipedia. I edit in my name alone.  bahamut0013  words deeds 19:38, 21 January 2010 (UTC)


 * That's an odd coincidence... I'm currently writing my thesis on Sparta, and they had several dealings in the area of Asian Turkey you live in. In the portion of history where they were on the downward slope of thier primacy, they undertook numerous expeditions abroad, and many of them to that area.  bahamut0013  <sup style="color:#000;margin-left:-1px">words <sub style="color:#000;margin-left:-16px">deeds 12:05, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:Bayonet tony biddle training marines, in parris island sc, 1942.jpg
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Bayonet tony biddle training marines, in parris island sc, 1942.jpg, has been listed at Possibly unfree files because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the file's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the file description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. :Jay8g Hi!- I am... -What I do... WASH- BRIDGE- WPWA - MFIC- WPIM 04:27, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Reply to "Photo of 'Bayonet Tony' Bıddle, 1942"
I have one question first. Is this a picture taken by a US Government person? See PD-USGov:Jay8g Hi!- I am... -What I do... WASH- BRIDGE- WPWA - MFIC- WPIM 18:22, 4 February 2012 (UTC) Great! In that case, I will change the license and put a note on the PUF page to keep it!:Jay8g Hi!- I am... -What I do... WASH- BRIDGE- WPWA - MFIC- WPIM 00:18, 5 February 2012 (UTC) You're welcome!:Jay8g Hi!- I am... -What I do... WASH- BRIDGE- WPWA - MFIC- WPIM 23:32, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
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