User talk:Charlotte.chenevier

Hi Charlotte, and welcome to Wikipedia, I hope you like the place! I saw your edits to Inflight magazine, and they're not all corret. When linking other wikipedia articles always do it like this linked article. If you want to link a to an article, but not have the exact name, do it like this written description. Kind regards, Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 16:04, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * You also seem to be overlinking a bit. Please stay within the guidelines for external links. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 16:07, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Not to mention that you seem to be pushing Ink. on that page. It's almost like you have shares in them ;). Please keep that toned down a little too! Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 16:25, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Ink Global


A tag has been placed on Ink Global, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become an encyclopedia article. Please read the guidelines on spam and FAQ/Business for more information.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Vrenator    talk   12:47, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Your request for assistance
Hi :) Your recent request for assistance got blocked by Wikipedia's edit filter. You did nothing wrong, it's just that the filter can be over-strict at times. Sorry about that. However, if you post your question on this page (your talk page) under the text (curly brackets and all, see Template:Help me), someone will come along to answer it for you. I'd offer myself but I'm going to be away from my keyboard for the rest of the day. I will check back tomorrow though. Hope this helps,  EyeSerene talk 13:21, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi, could you please give me some directions on how to rewrite this page?

thanks very much.

Hi And thanks for your post - i am pretty new to this so need some guidence. i am not trying to promote Ink per say - i am actually a studen ti france and liek teh company as they produce lots of magazines and events that we have ben looking at. what do you suggest i do to make this less promotional and more objective

--Charlotte.chenevier (talk) 16:19, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

New Article
I've put the above "Welcome" template on here as it has a lot of links to help you with editing Wikipedia. When creating an article it must be encyclopaedic and not promotional - that is why your article was deleted. You also need to establish notability and include some independent sources. Hope this helps. Vrenator    talk   13:52, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi Vrenator,

I am trying to write a wikipedia page about Ink. I am not trying to do it for promotional purposes but am a student in france studying business and media and like the fact that Ink is the biggest company in its sector. I have never really used Wikipedia before and am learning as i go. Could you please give me some directions on how to be as objective as possible, and the mistakes to avoid, etc.?

I would be very grateful for your help.

thanks in advace

--Charlotte.chenevier (talk) 16:17, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
 * You need to keep to the facts which can be backed up with sources. Avoid anything that is boasting - "The Best", "The Biggest" etc. Look at Starting an article for some useful tips. Maybe create it first as a sub-page of your user page and then put in a Request for Comment before moving it to a live page.  Vrenator     talk   16:31, 16 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Charlotte. I hope you don't mind me answering as well (I got back earlier than I thought so I checked back here). To add to what Vrenator's said I think your starting point probably has to be the advice on the page WP:CORP, which sets out Wikipedia's notability criteria for corporations. One of our core content policies is that any information added to Wikipedia has to come from a reliable source, and we need to know what that is. From what you've said about being the biggest company in its sector I suspect Ink is notable, but your first challenge will be to find coverage about the company in independent sources that can be used to prove notability and write a decently sourced article.
 * Assuming you can find that coverage (you'll probably know better than me, but trade sector publications and the like might be a good place to start), your next step could be to have a look at our articles on similar subjects and see what they do. Some of them probably aren't very good—Wikipedia is still very much a work in progress!—but to find quality articles you could look at the list here. Any of these would be a good model to follow, though don't worry if you can't produce an article like that just yet!
 * Finally you've got the job of pulling your sources together into an article. Obviously this takes a bit of time and some skill with Wikipedia markup, but you can learn most of what you need by reading that link, doing it and/or asking around. One really good tip that Vrenator gave you is to develop the article in your sandbox (there should be a link at the very top of the page). You can experiment as much as you like in there, because your sandbox is part of the space you're given as a registered user and not part of the main encyclopedia. When you have something you're happy with, you can move it into the main encyclopedia. If you're not sure how to do that, Vrenator or I will be happy to help.
 * Just as a last point, you'll need to be careful about using Ink's self-published information—press releases, Ink's website, that sort of thing—as sources. Because they are not independent and usually promotional in nature, we can't use sources like that to prove notability or extraordinary claims, though we can possibly use them for information about products, the location of company offices, the name of the director(s), company history etc.
 * I hope this helps. If you have any questions please feel free to drop me a note (my talk page is linked in my signature). Best. EyeSerene talk 16:54, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi, Thank you so much for your kindness! I am currently working on rewriting a "decent" page and will put it in my sandbox. If you agree I will notify you as you could tell me what you think once it will be ready. Again, thanks so much! --Charlotte.chenevier (talk) 10:13, 17 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Of course, I'd be happy to. When you're ready would you mind leaving me a note on my talk page? Although I have this page watchlisted I might miss it if you post here. All the best with your article and if you need anything else or have any technical questions please let me know :) EyeSerene talk 10:33, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Ink Global
You've picked a huge topic for your first article. Hindsight will show you that choosing to spend a week or two editing other articles goves you the skills you need. So a few pointers would not go amiss, I hope.

Inline web references
Please turn these into a scheme of footnotes, or, ideally, simply links to their pages on Wikipedia. Inline links tend to confuse many readers, unless that is just me
 * Expansion: There are ways of running two separate reference schemes for footnotes. I think they can be found via Reflist. If you can't find this out, put complete eith curly brackets on THIS page and put your question underneath. SOmeone will be along soon to help you. Folk are nice that way. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 15:10, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Please please be careful to ensure that the references you choose reflect the things they actually cite. I have just removed one that is nothing whatsoever to do with the matter at hand in Advertising. I think you can afford to relax and work more slowly. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 15:58, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

The huge section of awards
Please work out a better way of displaying this. At present it is the majority of the article

Fiddle Faddle (talk) 15:06, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi,

Thanks for your advice.

I have tried to follow as close as possible all your instructions. Could you please have a look at the updated document and tell me what you think?

How can I do to promote as less as possible Ink?

Finally could you please change the name of the article form "Ink global" to "Ink"?

Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Charlotte.chenevier (talk • contribs) 4:03 pm, Today (UTC+0)


 * You probably don't realise this, but you should sign all your talk page messages with ~ . They translate to your signature automatically.


 * Have a close look at the Awards section. It's enormous. I'm not sure how to handle that, nor the fact that the list is, as t stands, both a simple list and also a copyright violation (technically). I suggest you ask for help on copyright matters here unless oyu can think of a better way of removing the technical problem.


 * Practice with citations. At the head of the article there is, currently, a banner which speaks about citations. INvestigate it and try it out for size.


 * I don;t understand "How can I do to promote as less as possible Ink?". Help me please?


 * The article is improved. There is a long way to go, I'm afraid. Edit it section by section. Take it slow and steady. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 16:10, 17 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I have done several full citations as an example for you. It's just a matter of process. It takes a while. Do them one at a time and save as you go if you like. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 16:30, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

And yes, there's more :)
As you can see the article is much stripped down. It remains imperfect. It needs additional references from what we call reliable sources. Check that link out and do some diligent research to find things that are genuine reports in reliable sources about Ink, not, absolutely not, more press release format articles.

Once you've done that, almost as titivating, look at Infobox company and consider adding the relevant fields, the ones you have or can find data for. Remember you can used citations inside the Infobox, too. This should be the last thing you do, really

I've pretty much done everything I fancy doing in the article. It does need some more work, though. I don;t mean you should put back the stuff that;s been stripped out. I'm not concerned whether you do or don;t, by the way. I've taken out what I, an ordinary editor as we all are, feel should go. You may feel it should go back. This place works on consensus. That someone has edited for longer than you does not mean their opinion is better than yours. It does mean that, in their experience, they know what will probably be against consensus, but the key word is "probably" here.

With articles, never mother them. Instead act as a father. Feel able to walk away and let what was once your inspiration learn to walk and fly by itself. Play with it by all means, but don't mother it! Fiddle Faddle (talk) 20:22, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Re your question
Hi Charlotte. I've had a look at the article and it's much improved, although there's still a little way to go. However I don't think it's in any danger of being deleted this time because you've got some good sources in there and it's not too promotional in tone.

I hope you don't mind but I've been through and "wikified" the article a little bit. I removed some links because we only normally internally link words that relate directly to helping an intelligent reader understand the content (so words like "United States" don't need to be linked; most readers know what that means!). I've taken out the bold formatting - that's never usually used in an article apart from on the first mention of the company name in the introduction. I've also tried to reword bits that referred to things like "the company today" - if Wikipedia's still here in five or ten years that wording probably wouldn't be correct so we try to avoid it if we can.

I've also moved the article to "Ink (company)" which is in line with how we title articles like that - especially as obviously we need to distinguish your article from the article on Ink! However I was wondering what the company's full name is. Is it "Ink Publishing Group" or something? Maybe that would be a better title?

I think we should have a link to the company website on there somewhere and maybe a company logo, perhaps in an infobox. Infoboxes can be complicated so if you're not sure how to create it I can help out. The one we use for company articles is here

Finally, I see another editor has removed the awards list and flagged part of the article as too closely resembling the wording on one of the sources you've used. Because of copyright concerns the prose should be in your own words - this will need fixing fairly urgently...

All in all I think you've done a very good job so far :) Best, EyeSerene talk 17:24, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you
Hi Eyeserene,

Thank you very much for all your advice and revisions on this article.

I really appreciate your great help!

I will maybe add some more things in the next days. Anyway I will let you know!

Thanks again

--Charlotte.chenevier (talk) 17:41, 17 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Bon courage :) EyeSerene talk 18:17, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi Eyeserene,

I have another question (sorry for all of this but as noticed before I am quite new in the system, so I am keep going on learning how to use it!): when I type "Ink" on google or on wikipedia, my article doesn't appear (I need to type "ink (company)")... Is that normal? How can I deal with that?

Moreover I have just noticed that someone deleted the sections about Ink clients and awards. Is that you? Do you think I need to add it again or is it boring?

Many thanks in advance for your reply! --Charlotte.chenevier (talk) 16:28, 20 February 2012 (UTC)


 * No problem, ask as many questions as you like :)
 * Regarding the name, yes that is normal. Obviously we can only have one page called "Ink" and the main use of the word is this one. All of Wikipedia's other pages that start with "Ink" have to use different, more specific titles. If you look at the top of the Ink page it says "For other uses, see Ink (disambiguation)". Clicking that link will take you to a page that lists all the ink-related content on Wikipedia. You'll see that I added "Ink (company)" to that page, so that is one way to find it. Also searching for "Ink Global" or "Ink Publishing" should redirect you to "Ink (company)". Unless the company changes its name, that's the best we can do. Over time, Google's search results should start to show up your article.
 * The sections were deleted (not by me!) because we try not to have long lists in articles. It's better to write sentences and paragraphs where possible. The other problem is that listing so many clients and awards made the article seem a bit too promotional, Perhaps instead a couple of sentences would be better, like:
 * "Ink's clients include... "
 * and "Ink has won a number of industry awards, including... ".
 * Does this help? EyeSerene talk 18:38, 20 February 2012 (UTC)


 * You might suggest further that "Ink has won a number of industry awards, including..." and "Ink's clients include..." each need to be cited, and in reliable sources or there is a very strong probability that another editor, any other editor will delete them. Citations are an absolute must Fiddle Faddle (talk) 21:26, 20 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, good point. Thanks :) EyeSerene talk 21:45, 20 February 2012 (UTC)


 * And, to see who has done what in an article, the history tab is useful. Edit summaries are to be much encouraged. A lot to learn, but not all in one go :) Fiddle Faddle (talk) 23:25, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi Eyeserene, Hi Fiddle Faddle,

Yes it really helps me!

Thank you very much for everything!

--Charlotte.chenevier (talk) 10:54, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi again, could you please take a look at the updated page (new sections about clients and awards) and tell me if everything's ok? Thanks a lot! --Charlotte.chenevier (talk) 15:41, 21 February 2012 (UTC)


 * If you would turn the bare url links into full citation the article would benefit from them substantially. Scroll up here to see how to do that. Look at the references section. Those you have just added look dreadful even if they cite the correct thing. Get the citations right and the whole article both looks better and IS better. We create Wikipedia for the readers, not simply for the satisfaction of having written something. So please do the full job, and put 100% into ot wth the citations. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 22:26, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

With regard to references
Please see this diff where I reverted your recent changes as inappropriate. Such items are trade puffery and have been removed. The tag for Primary Source was also inappropriately removed and I have reinstated it.

I appreciate that you are new here, hence my messages on this page. You do seem to be learning some things, but seem resistant to learning others. Please try to understand the different between primary sources and reliable sources, and demonstrate that understanding in your edits.

Please also learn not to use bare urls as references. Please use the full citation mechanism, a mechanism I have explained above on this page.

Wikipedia is an organ where other editors will correct the things you do. However other editors are also human and expect new editors who receive guidance to pick up on that guidance and to integrate it into their work. When that does not happen, the more so if further questions on how to use things are not asked, human exasperation sets in.

We other ordinary editors (we are all ordinary editors, administrators, too) want all ordinary editors to become excellent ordinary editors. We will do everything in our power to help new editors to learn how to become excellent. For your part, please walk with us to demonstrate that you are picking up the use of the tools and running with it, or ask questions when you need extra guidance. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 12:16, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

April 2012
Hello Charlotte.chenevier. We welcome your contributions to Wikipedia, but if you are affiliated with some of the people, places or things you have written about in the article Targeted advertising, you may have a conflict of interest or close connection to the subject.

All editors are required to comply with Wikipedia's neutral point of view content policy. People who are very close to a subject often have a distorted view of it, which may cause them to inadvertently edit in ways that make the article either too flattering or too disparaging. People with a close connection to a subject are not absolutely prohibited from editing about that subject, but they need to be especially careful about ensuring their edits are verified by reliable sources and writing with as little bias as possible.

If you are very close to a subject, here are some ways you can reduce the risk of problems:


 * Avoid or exercise great caution when editing or creating articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with.
 * Be cautious about deletion discussions. Everyone is welcome to provide information about independent sources in deletion discussions, but avoid advocating for deletion of articles about your competitors.
 * Avoid linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Spam).
 * Exercise great caution so that you do not accidentally breach Wikipedia's content policies.

Please familiarize yourself with relevant content policies and guidelines, especially those pertaining to neutral point of view, verifiability of information, and autobiographies.

For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have a conflict of interest, please see our frequently asked questions for organizations. Thank you. Scopecreep (talk) 14:19, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Hello, Thank you for your message and advices. I don't have any connections but I will manage to change it if you find I am not enough neutral. Thanks! --Charlotte.chenevier (talk) 14:54, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Ink (company) for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Ink (company) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Ink (company) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.  Velella  Velella Talk 15:26, 20 April 2015 (UTC)