User talk:Ched/Archive 3

Right and Wrong
[...]


 * In answer to your first question, nope, you don't need references on your userpage. You may put any information you like on your userpage, as long as it doesn't violate your privacy. In answer to your second question, there are the Wikipedia IRC channels which may also be helpful.



Best, Peter Symonds ( talk ) 20:08, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Communication
Hey, just read the Communication subpage you created, and I just wanted to say it is absolutely fantastic! Very appropriate and truly accurate. I really hope others (both new here and "old-timers") will find and read that essay. If nothing similar exists in terms of Wiki essays (and I don't immediately see anything), I may have to get you to prettify it, move it to the Wikipedia: space and place it in Category:Wikipedia essays. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 10:58, 22 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey, any time. You've obviously got brains and drive, and that is very welcome around here. Before tucking it into the main essays category, it should probably be looked at by a variety of others to pull additional opinions. Do you use IRC? Wikipedia editors/admins/lurkers have a strong presence on Freenode...you can get a lot of second and third opinions there. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 11:51, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

[...] "more in archives"

Re;Joyride
Hi Ched - basically if the article is very short, you add a stub template at the bottom of the article (either the plain stub or one of the more precise ones - if you simply add stub, a stub-sorter will change it to a more precise one soon enough, but if you can even make it a slightly more precise one it'll save work later). Usually if it's that short, then it'll be pretty obvious the sort of thing that the article needs.

If it's a longer article but still needs work, and you're less sure that it's easy to see what still needs attention, add an expand template at the top instead, and put details on the talk page. The difference between "short" and "longer" is pretty arbitrary and depends a lot on what the subject is (I've got a short essay on that at User:Grutness/Croughton-London rule of stubs), but if it's more than a couple of screens-full of information, it's usually beyond being a stub. Hope you enjoy your time on Wikipedia - keep up the good work :) Grutness...wha?  01:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Tigers
Thanks for the nice comment on my essay. I glanced at your recent edits and noticed your comment to Aether about passion; you might also like this essay. Mike Christie (talk) 04:05, 21 January 2009 (UTC) [[...]

You're very welcome
The I.P. I reverted on your talk page was a long-term troll who has something against User:Abd (it's why User talk:Abd is indefinitely semi-protected). Not really sure what his/her problem is, and I'm not over-eager to find out. On a side note, I notice you're new-ish here; you seem to be doing very well, but if you ever need a hand from an administrator and/or experienced contributor, feel free to let me know. Cheers, Sarcasticidealist (talk) 22:54, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Rollback granted
After reviewing your request for rollback, I have enabled rollback on your account. Keep in mind these things when going to use rollback: If you no longer want rollback, then contact me and I'll remove it. Also, for some information on how to use rollback, you can view this page. I'm sure you'll do great with rollback, just leave me a message if you run into troubles or have any questions about appropriate/inappropriate use of rollback. Happy editing! – xeno  ( talk ) 03:25, 24 January 2009 (UTC) [keeping for links]
 * Getting rollback is no more momentous than installing Twinkle.
 * Rollback can be used to revert clear cases of vandalism only, and not good faith edits.
 * Rollback may be removed at any time.
 * Just go slow with huggle, make sure you only use it for proper vandalism and you'll do fine.

WP:CSEC
Ched Davis! Thank You for your assistance with WikiProject Malware! To better serve Wikipedia, this project has been closed. We thank you for all of your hard work, and we would like to invite you to our new Wikiproject at WikiProject Computer Security. We hope to see you soon! Sephiroth storm (talk) 08:24, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Malwarebytes
The article's looking great, although it's hard for me to figure out what was your personal contribution, looks like there was somebody's vandalism that you were dealing with thrown in there too. Anyway, thanks so much for your work on what was once a little stub, abandoned to the cold winds of WP:SD. All of the added content is appropriate, ditto for the removed content, and the format is much improved. I agree with the move, too - the one thing I know for sure was you. Fredgoat (talk) 09:48, 31 January 2009 (UTC) [...my reply archived]

Tara Chatterjea
(talk • contribs) 19:45, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * (archived - heading kept for any future threads)

Twilight
No worries. Whenever you return to it and address the issues, let me know and I'll be happy to take another look. Best wishes and happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 09:34, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * (kept as unfinished)

WP:Bite
Interesting read of your comments at Bite. It is definitally a problem. I liked your simple, easy to read instructions. Informal. Welcoming. "Have a seat. Don't mind all those Scholars. Your their equal. You just don't know it yet"...Im working at the Articles for deletion section. It is sad how MANY newbies are treated poorly. I think its fair to say that we wikipedians treat obvious vandals with more courtesy than a well-intentioned newbie.--Buster7 (talk) 13:38, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * (kept as reminder)

See:Extended Hand
I had a nice stroll around your place. Very nice. Friendly. I'm glad we are neighbors. --Buster7 (talk) 01:17, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I just read your User:Ched Davis/communication. Thank you. Early on I created User:Buster7/Wikiknights. Its still "on the vine", waiting to mature. I think they both respond to a need. If you don't mind I may add to your communication...not now, but after a few re-reads. Please feel free to integrate new edits into my treatise as well. I hope you enjoy my work as much as I enjoyed yours.--Buster7 (talk) 04:03, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * (see archives for extended version)
 * I definitely agree. If you have trouble with folks deleting things, then drop those pages and don't revisit for a long while. If you like doing random research, the Random Article button is definitely the way to go. Wikipedia can be a fun hobby if you don't let the vandals and other ninnies get to you. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 05:27, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Stick candy

 * (kept for humor value)

If you want to see a real fight, check out the arguing over a certain intimate part of a woman's body that may or may not exist at maturity and may or may not be legitimately identifiable, depending on who you believe. The picture was enough to scare me off after a while, especially since a lot of the feuding was about the picture itself and whether it should be included.
 * (archived some comments)
 * As far as the article on hymen - WOW, I'm thinking "I wish I had a button next to the "my watchlist" that said "avoid at all costs" ... LOL. I think I'd sooner try to edit the Obama article than touch that one.  Even 20 years ago I'm not sure I'd have wanted to spend too much time on that one. — Ched (talk) 06:50, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I mean I'd want to spend time on it... or rather ... boy this hole around my feet ankles knees just keeps getting deeper - I think I'll excuse myself while I still can - (if it's not already too late) ;) — Ched (talk) 06:52, 14 February 2009 (UTC)


 * But throwing speedies around is so much fun! runs away — Huntster (t • @ • c) 07:09, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Help Stuff
helpme (self-removed thanks to Forgettinaboutit [sic] post - plenty to read up on for the moment - may repost addendum later)
 * Page Moves


 * this post. [...] Many of the page moves listed at Requested moves have a lot of "What links here" entries. After reading Help:Moving a page, I wanted to clarify what exactly I should do (or attempt to do ;)) On to the questions ...
 * 1) Do the pages listed need to stay listed for 5 days before being moved?
 * 2) After the move, must all the pages in the "What links here" listing be fixed?
 * 3) Would simply leaving a redirect behind for the old page satisfy the needs of the "What links here" entries?
 * 4) If not, is there a tool, bot, or automated script that can help in the "find and replace" work: A -> A (new) ?
 * 5) Do all pages on the "What links here" list need to be addressed, or just the indented ones?

Thanks — Ched (talk) 09:45, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * [...], I can help with this one with a quick note.


 * No, but generally they should unless there is overwhelming early consensus. Articles can be snowed and Wikipedia is not a bureacracy.
 * No, just the double redirects created. See Moving guidelines for administrators which goes into some detail on what should be done in the wake of a move and how to do it (which page I recently expanded and copyedited to make clearer).
 * 1) See above. The question is sort of a non sequitur. The need is mostly to fix double redirects.
 * 2) can't help you there, though using the method of opening up multiple tabs in your browser and doing the operations in steps I can fix multiple pages very fast manually, for example clicking "edit this page" down the line for say 20 pages, then replacing all the double redirects down the line as the next step, then entering a single edit summary down the line, and then clicking save page down the line. This is blindingly faster than doing each one as a separate operation.

All this is somewhat academic for the request you noted at the admonistrator's noticeboard because most moves listed at WP:RM can only be done by administrators.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 13:07, 17 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Mirror links
 * Hi Ched. Don't know if there is a bot/script for this but you can see what articles link to a website via this. The blacklist of links is handled by the Mediawiki namespace blacklist (can't remember where it is) and various bots. As for a list of such mirror sites, Mirrors and forks has many of the huge number that there are. Happy editing - Peripitus (Talk) 10:43, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Collaborations
Ched, having recognized your interest in encyclopedia improvements and collaboration, I welcome your input on Tina Turner, Michael Jackson and Dutch oven (prank). [...]. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:06, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Happy99

Hello there. I noticed that you are a member of the malware Wikiproject, and I was wondering if you'd like to help me improve an article about a virus called Happy99 which was recently nominated for deletion. Thanks. ← Spidern  →  16:18, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank You
Aymatth2, ChildofMidnight, Buster7, and of course, my fellow civil-service friend Huntster - Thank you for your kind words, and great advice. Hard part first - I was foolish to let these minor things get to me. I guess it just goes to show that even after 50+ years of life, almost 30 years of single-parenting, and 15+ years on the web, "There's no fool like an old fool". I'll put away my Don Quixote attire, pull Sancho's knife from my back, and put it in my "remember box". Boy those 5-pillar looking windmills sure looked like real monsters though. I suppose that boldness does tend to lead to some less than policy and guideline knowledgeable posting. Note to myself: When you see a train wreck a-commin' - just get off the damn train dummy. ;). Thanks guys - I really mean that! ;)  Well, there's a long-time editor here whose phrase I'll close with. "Nothing more to see here - let's move along". — Ched (talk) 13:14, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

You maybe interested in the Article Rescue Squadron


I notice that you are part of Category:Inclusionist_Wikipedians. I would like you to consider joining the Article Rescue Squadron. Rescue Squadron members are focused on rescuing articles for deletion, that might otherwise be lost forever. I think you will find our project matches your vision of Wikipedia.

Ikip (talk) 00:52, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi Ikip. Hmmm - to be honest, I thought I had signed up there already. I'm not an extremest at inclusion, but have salvaged a few from AfD (couple WW II bios, Study Skills, etc).  I'll stop back over though and take a look.  Thanks for the heads up. — Ched (talk) 12:07, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, it is possible that you are already a member. (I don't see you on the membership list though) I go through great pains not to double post. But I never considered checking the already ARS membership against the list. Thanks for the idea, I guess if I would have never contacted you, you would never had seen that wonderful and hilarious User_talk:Ikip. So I guess everything worked out for the best.
 * Personally I have trouble trying to save obscure corporations and garage bands.
 * {|class="wikitable collapsible collapsed" align=center cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0" width=300px

!style="background: #cdc"| Articles tagged for deletion and rescue
 * align=center|
 * }
 * }
 * Here is the current list, I always find some article which I am really interested in. Ikip (talk) 21:47, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Good deal! Makes it a whole lot easier than going through 10 links to find em. It was a while ago when I found the whole deletionist vs. inclusionist stuff - I probably didn't put my name in the right place.  I'm not a radical inclusionist, but I've seen a bunch of stuff on NPP that was tagged, and I try to save what I can.  Not that I think every garage band who gets a gig at the local bar should have an article - but the stuff that's tough to research on the web - especially the historical things, are definitely of interest to me.  You can count on me to add my meager abilities to improving the lost souls (being the patron saint of lost causes that I am).. lol.  Look forward to working with ya! ;) — Ched (talk) 21:56, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Many of the editors of WP:ARS are not radical inclusionists either, see ARS, and I quote:
 * So the ARS are wild-eyed inclusionists?
 * No. The Article Rescue Squadron (ARS) is not about casting keep votes or making policy simply to ensure that nothing is deleted. The ARS ensure that articles about notable topics do not get deleted when they can be rescued through normal editing which per WP:AFD means that it was not a good candidate for AfD. The So fix it and Solookitup templates are sometimes all that's required for a rescue.
 * I am looking forward to working with you in the future. I know you have many skills you can add to the project. Ikip (talk) 22:29, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi Ched
Yo ched, I'm trying to insert a picture in a article, however it only allows me to insert it as a logo; not a screenshot for some reason. Norton Removal Tool. The picture is here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TechOutsider (talk • contribs) 20:50, 20 February 2009


 * This is likely just a cache issue. I can't seem to force it to reload, so there may be additional technical problems, but they should be automatically sorted out in time. Check back tomorrow and see if the problem is resolved, and if not, make an inquiry at Village pump (technical). I think this may have something to do with the minor server downtime that just occurred. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 03:03, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Yep; couldn't access Wikipedia for ~half an hour just now. :( TechOutsider (talk) 03:13, 21 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider


 * So, should I continue with the edits; and the problems will the smoothed out tomorrow? TechOutsider (talk) 03:20, 21 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider


 * Yeah, continue editing as normal, just don't be surprised if some images don't work as expected. Everything should be okay (or at least, I've not noticed anything else amiss). — Huntster (t • @ • c) 04:46, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Leave it to me to be late to my own party lol. One of my clients had a server outage (actually a switch issue) - and had major job run scheduled for today. — Ched (talk) 12:20, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Looks like the IT guys working on the servers had their hands full last night. I guess while they were doing some squid updates, someone decided to update the Apache kernels, NFS goes down = fun filled evening for Brion.  But, looks like the Norton pic is displaying ok now. — Ched (talk) 15:17, 21 February 2009 (UTC) (note to myself - I really do need to spend more time on the #en-wiki IRC)


 * Domas posted a message on the lists, if anyone is interested. &mdash; neuro  (talk)  18:29, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Formal welcome to the Article Rescue Squadron
I love what you wrote, which is so very true: "Just call me the patron saint of lost causes." Ikip (talk) 22:41, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Requests for adminship/Msgj
Thanks for your support but I think you !voted twice ;) Please check, cheers. MartinMsgj 08:25, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * You are 100% correct - sorry about that. I had bookmarked the page to vote - and missed the fact that I already had. — Ched (talk) 11:44, 22 February 2009 (UTC) (but pointing it out does indicate I voted correctly ;)) — Ched (talk) 11:57, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Reply
No I don't own otters in real life. That's just an injoke I started ages ago.

1. "Subst" refers to template substitution. I've never really paid much attention to it, but WP:SUBST has an explanation. 2. There isn't a specific starting point, but WP:DP is the general deletion policy which clarifies pages that should be deleted, WP:BEFORE lists little steps you can take before listing something for deletion, and WP:CSD has a list of the speedy deletion criteria. Also, if you want to delete something in user space, db-u1 is preferred for wanting to delete things in userspace. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 19:45, 22 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Don't let TenPound fool you...he has a whole flock (herd...army...?) of otters! — Huntster (t • @ • c) 19:51, 22 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Romp. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 20:34, 22 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Just a wild shot in the dark here - I'm guessing you guys know each other? .. LOL — Ched (talk) 00:31, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * lol, not except for time spent on Wikipedia. That, and I was assaulted by a couple of his otter army a while back...they bite hard! — Huntster (t • @ • c) 01:11, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 *  cries because he didn't know the race was on.  At least I'll catch the end. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 01:47, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * You know you've exceeded your wiki-holic levels when you forget NASCAR .. LMAO. — Ched (talk) 01:50, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Re: H2O
Lmao, that's hilarious. You know, I've been dealing with that article topic for so long, that I don't even remember now how I first came across it. I think someone asked me to take a look, but I don't know. Don't let anyone tell you that double-checking other's work is a bad thing...it most assuredly is not. Sure, there are some people who may take offence to it, but to be brutally direct, that's their problem. Also, don't ever feel like you owe me anything. We're all volunteers here, doing it for the fun of it. If you feel like you owe people, then it moves that much closer to being a job, and that is just not acceptable :) — Huntster (t • @ • c) 19:49, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Ahhh .. this place does make me smile ;) ... another couple months and I'll be a full blown wiki-holic! — Ched (talk) 20:20, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Another few months and I can imagine you as an admin! I was on the site four years before becoming one. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 20:34, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * LOL .. but that would take all the fun out of it. ;) — Ched (talk) 20:39, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Awww, not at all! I avoid the bureaucratic sections of the site like the plague...I stick to the article space. And when yer an admin, you get to banninate folks! *hic* — Huntster (t • @ • c) 20:41, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, if and when that day should ever come ... your gonna be the guy with the extra training work-load. LOL — Ched (talk) 00:34, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Norton Internet Security
An editor noted that nearly every paragraph was comprised of one sentence. I tried to remove redundancies; however I seemed to have made the article too bare bones. A previous editor mentioned that the article was too technical; so I sapped away the technical parts into wikilinks or just deleted them. Any suggestions? TechOutsider (talk) 00:17, 23 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider
 * Well that kinda goes back to what I mentioned earlier, ... about lists and stuff. Is there a particular article specifically? .. or do you mean in general?  I'd be happy to look at anything, and then try to compare it to the WP:MOS guidelines, see what I can come up with. — Ched (talk) 00:38, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll look at NIS first, and post to the talk page there. — Ched (talk) 00:41, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks. In the meantime, I am extensively editing NIS. Can you help unify NIS with NAV? TechOutsider (talk) 02:04, 23 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider


 * It's really painful trying to "fatten" the article, Ched. It may sound to certain users that I'm trying to sell the product based on its features. TechOutsider (talk) 02:17, 23 February 2009 (UTC)techOutsider


 * Oh I know what you mean. And it really hurts when a bunch of editing you've done just gets deleted too.  Sometimes it helps to step away from an article for a day or two - and work on something else.  I noticed you're an MJ fan, maybe work on that a bit, then come back to the Norton stuff a day or so later.  Sometimes it helps to look at some of the FA stuff.  The one I tend to look at in the computer related stuff is Mozilla Firefox.  You're doing good work with the Norton stuff, don't get discouraged.  Take a couple hours and re-read through some of the Policy and guideline pages to help refocus your direction.  WP:MOS is dry and long, but if you have a good handle on that - it's tough for anyone to argue with compliant edits.  It's not always about "fattening" or "padding" and article, sometimes smaller and concise is actually better.  We want the lede (lead) to grab a readers attention. - then some readable paragraphs about what the subject is about.  Some history of the company, with all the mainstream perceptions (both positive and negative) thrown in.


 * In looking at the NIS article, I'll just pick out the first paragraph, which is actually pretty good. You could elaborate on the SONAR component some - not so much in technical detail - that should be covered in the actual SONAR article itself.  Rather than saying something like SONAR is a TSR component that's triggered by heuristic malware flags - explain it like you would to your mom or girlfriend. (pc: or boyfriend) -- example: SONAR is a program that runs in the background as the computer performs other tasks.  It watches for malicious programs, computer code, and activities which could damage the integrity of a PC. SONAR attempts to protect vital computer operating system files from being changed, damaged, or compromised. The program uses heuristics, or mathematical algorithms to detect changes in the computer and it's files. Since SONAR uses these heuristic methods to protect the user, it is also prone to false positives.  False positives are a description used to define a program, or chunk of code which is not actually harmful, but has triggered an alert system to a potential change in vital operating procedure.  Computer analytical site ABC, has noted that the percentage of SONAR's false positive reports are approximately 3 in every 100 items. As of February 2009, SONAR is not installed on 64-bit such as XP64 and Vista64.  Customers are able to install the Norton tool bar from (site: abc.com/dl) as a means to achieving the extra layer of protection. bla...bla...bla - you get my point.  Then ask an editor you trust (like Seprith Storm) to take a look at it.  he/she may cut out some wording, tighten things up somewhat, and tweak it so it has a better flow.


 * One thing to keep in mind though, you can spend many hours and hundreds of edits on an article - but there are a bunch of editors who are going to come in and change things (hopefully, but not always, for the better). I personally don't spend more than a day or two at a time on any one article.  I'll add what I can, let it sit for a bit (while I work on something else) - see how it's received, then maybe edit a little more.  For me, that helps avoid a sense of ownership in an article. I've noticed that you've put up an article or two for peer review - always a great way to get feedback.  Well, I didn't mean to go on like Ann Landers, but I hope that helps. — Ched (talk) 15:38, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Huh?
A user's (user:TechOutsider Contribs:[1]) edits consist entirely of editing Symantec products, and the edits appear to be all positive. Removing criticism, the use of press-releases as references etc. I would leave the user a note, but I'm not sure what (if any) policies are being breached, and therefore what really to say/query. So I come here to the Friendly Help Desk ;-) Any thoughts? Fribbler (talk) 16:14, 26 November 2008 (UTC)


 * (format) I would leave Welcome

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. We appreciate encyclopedic contributions, but some of your recent contributions seem to be advertising or for promotional purposes. Wikipedia does not allow advertising. For more information on this, see: If you still have questions, there is a new contributor's help page, or you can write   below this message along with a question and someone will be along to answer it shortly. You may also find the following pages useful for a general introduction to Wikipedia: I hope you enjoy editing Wikipedia! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Feel free to write a note on the bottom of if you want to get in touch with me. Again, welcome! on his talk page and continue to monitor his contributions. Also, a specific note on his talk page would be good as well. If nothing changes or there is no response, further action may be necessary. Cheers! TN‑X-Man 16:18, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Policy on neutral point of view
 * Guideline on spam
 * Guideline on external links
 * Guideline on conflict of interest
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Help pages
 * Tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style


 * (format) As an aside, if WikiScanner was up to date, you could identify if any edits have come from that IP range. Shame, really. TN‑X-Man 16:41, 26 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I recommend sending a personal note in which you explain your concerns and explain WP:RS and WP:NPOV (which address the things you described). On the other hand, there is such a thing as too much criticism and in some cases (where the content is not really contentious) press-releases can be a suitable source. So make sure you pick an edit to highlight to the user that is clearly problematic. - 87.211.75.45 (talk) 17:10, 26 November 2008 (UTC)


 * (format) What criticism has the user removed? Was it well-sourced and did it otherwise comply with Wikipedia policies and guidelines? (Some criticism on Wikipedia is merely vandalism, after all, whereas other criticism is clearly encyclopedic. It would be nice if every user was completely even-handed in every edit, but it is only necessary for the entire community of Wikipedia users to be collectively even-handed.) Are the users who originally contributed the criticism aware that TechOutsider removed it? If so, how did they react? In any disagreement between Wikipedia users, the side with the most knowledge of Wikipedia's rules "wins." Everyone involved should read WP:OWN, WP:BFAQ, WP:CITE, WP:CITET, WP:FOOT, and the Astroturfing article. If someone criticizes a Symantec product (or anything else) on Wikipedia, other users may challenge the criticism and thus it needs to have reliable sources and be properly footnoted. --Teratornis (talk) 17:32, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

I found this in Google's cache of "herb encyclopedia". Is it somehow affiliated with Wikipedia? Or is it just another spinoff? How did their posts end up there? TechOutsider (talk) 02:10, 23 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider


 * I'll take a look after the race — Ched (talk) 02:24, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure where you found it - what you mean by Google's cache, do you mean a cached page that was listed in the search result? Or do you have like a greasemonkey script you're looking at?  It looks like it might be a posting to a help desk somewhere, but I'm not familiar with "herb encyclopedia".  herbencyclopedia.com is just an adsearch site.  The top link for that search term is a med site, and I don't see where it would have that kind of info.  If you could drop me a link to the exact page - I might be able to find more. I'll do some digging around tomorrow though — Ched (talk) 03:16, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I tried as well to find the site you are talking about, to no avail. Can you please provide a link to the page where this was found? It is highly unlikely that it is related in any way to Wikipedia...probably just one of the multitude of sites that think it is a cool idea to copy Wikipedia's database, including all the user and talk pages, and administrative pages. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 03:24, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=jhR&q=++++*+(format)+As+an+aside%2C+if+WikiScanner+was+up+to+date%2C+you+could+identify+if+any+edits+have+come+from+that+IP+range.+Shame%2C+really.+TN%E2%80%91X-Man+16%3A41%2C+26+November+2008+(UTC)&btnG=SearchTechOutsider (talk) 03:24, 23 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider
 * BTW, thanks for causing an edit conflict =|TechOutsider (talk) 03:25, 23 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider
 * Yes, that's just a copy of Wikipedia...not affiliated with Wikimedia in any form. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 04:31, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

<- First thanks Huntster for checking this out for me - I had a splitting headache, and just kinda bailed. Yep Tech, just a mirror. I personally don't understand the reasoning (other than a hope to get higher page ranks). Someone taking advantage of our GFDL. Kinda like pointing to someone and saying "They have a bootleg copy of GNU Linux" lulz. and yep, (ec) can be a pain in the but huh? - just backspace and copy what ya had - than do the edit again, and paste. Saves typing it all over. — Ched (talk) 14:28, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I see your point =). TechOutsider (talk) 00:18, 24 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider

Talkback
– xeno  ( talk ) 20:34, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Edit Centric (talk) 21:23, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Talkback
TN X Man 21:32, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Mac vs. Macintosh ... login vs. logon ...
which of the above is preferred in Wikipedia? TechOutsider (talk) 00:17, 24 February 2009 (UTC)techoutsider
 * Hmmm very good questions. On the Mac vs. Macintosh - I would say Macintosh is preferred, at least in the early parts of the article.  Then if you define it that Mac is short for Macintosh along the way, it would fine to use further down the page.  The second one is tougher, and to be honest - I don't know ;( ... It may be related to a difference to whether you're logging on to a physical device like your computer as opposed to logging in to a remote system such as a webpage.  Great question, I'll see what I can find, and if nothing else we can ask at the computer reference desk. — Ched (talk) 00:24, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Annoyances
You know what I hate? Radically changing on the the Norton articles. Because then, I have to update the other one. And I'm honestly not that familiar with earlier version of NIS/NAV, making it difficult to determine which features either one of the suite have, and thus which sentences from one article applies to the other. I almost want to merge the article. To further complicate matters, most, in fact, almost all of the computer software review sites, where I pull a lot of information about features and criticisms from, fail to review NAV. Almost all exclusively review NIS and then make the NIS review apply to NAV. Ugh!!!!!! I mean, I could just pull up a chat session with a tech support agent; however I would have a hard time referencing the information, and they really aren't that fast or efficient! TechOutsider (talk) 00:37, 24 February 2009 (UTC)techoutsider

Argh! I'm trying to find Norton AntiBot's release date, however chatting with a rep from symantec for about half an hour now yeilded an Sept. 2007 release date; and he/she's not sure about the actual day. TechOutsider (talk) 00:41, 24 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider


 * Ok, they then say 13th of sept.; however CNET hosts a download for NAB, and they claim it was added to their database in August. CNET. Then, the rep admits defeat, saying that it was tech support and no info. was available. TechOutsider (talk) 00:45, 24 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider


 * Without a doubt the computer articles can be among the toughest to edit. The technology changes so fast, and most mainstream media sources don't cover a lot of the tech stuff.  If you think merging the NIS and AV articles are the way to go, I could probably be convinced of that.  Post the merge tags, and talk page notes first though.  As far as reviews, I'm surprised about that.  I know computerhope shut down operations - I was bummed about that.  PC Mag has gotten so commercial. c|net is ok, but very general.  As far as tech support - I wouldn't put much stock in those kinds of things, unless it's been published in one of their FAQ's.  A lot of those guys don't have a clue, they're just pulling up keywords from their intranet database. — Ched (talk) 00:52, 24 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Yep, I gotta admit, that PCmag overhypes NIS. Ok, maybe it feels great and fresh during the first couple days of use, however, after that, it feels just like an ordinary security suite. I tried Kaspersky; not bad. Nod32, nice interface. Less ... dark and foreboding. I like its light, airy, green/light blue interface. Anyways, though, PCmag isn't a bad source for information about features; Cnet can be a little general at times.

Anyways ..
I have contacted storm; right now I have shifted my focus to something else. Anyways, can you somehow shorten this article heading:

Windows XP Service Pack 3/Vista Service Pack 1TechOutsider (talk) 01:09, 24 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider


 * I'll take a look ;) — Ched (talk) 01:12, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * do you mean this? — Ched (talk) 03:05, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

How can I wikilink a particular section of another wikipedia article? TechOutsider (talk) 01:29, 24 February 2009 (UTC)techOutsider


 * There's two ways: The right way, and the easy way.


 * 1) The right way bracket the article as you normally would - then insert the pound sign and section title.
 * 2) what you want the text to read
 * 3) The easy way: (how I cheat): click on the TOC section link - copy the whole url from the address bar. Then put the first bracket, paste the url what you want the text to say, and put the closing bracket.
 * 4) the text
 * Note: the second way will display as an external link, even though it's not — Ched (talk) 01:38, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Eh, should have clarified. The subheading is in NIS's article. Anyways, could you give NIS a quick read-down and tell me how it sounds? Advertisment? neutral? TechOutsider (talk) 03:30, 24 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider

Malware Removal?
Are you working on that article? I see it was deleted once already. Why was it deleted? TechOutsider (talk) 01:48, 24 February 2009 (UTC)techOutsider
 * If you mean the one in my userspace, I archived to HD and decided to take a break for a bit. It was a page I started back before I understood WP:NOTHOWTO. — Ched (talk) 03:01, 24 February 2009 (UTC)


 * If I could see it, that would be nice. Unless it's too much trouble for you.


 * I'll dig it out tomorrow afternoon if that's ok. Right now I have my tech disk in my portable USB bay, and I'm writing some new ISO files to disk (as well as some old ones for my worn out ERD, BartPE, XP, and Ubuntu disks .. lol).  As soon as they're done, I'll slap my b/u disk in an post the malware article somewhere. ;) (will take a look at your NIS article tonight though - promise) — Ched (talk) 23:34, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Heya
Good afternoon. Since you mentioned being bitten by a newbie, this is a random attempt at making you feel better. Here are some links that may be relevant to your interests:


 * Floating dog
 * The Headington Shark
 * Cute Things Falling Asleep
 * High Five Escalator

Whee. --Kiz o r  10:53, 24 February 2009 (UTC)


 * LMAO - what a great way to start the wiki-day. I had seen that guy that does the "great things falling asleep" on a talk show recently, too.  I had to do a double take on the bite, thought for a second I accidentally posted to one of the drama boards (which I'll read, but seldom post to).  <* looks around, nope - it's the Help Desk? *>... LOL.  Definitely getting to be a hot-button topic, no doubt. — Ched (talk) 13:37, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

HDD recovery tools
Hi Ched, I was wondering if I could take you up on the offer of HDD recovery program suggestions? A friend of mine has just had an external HDD fail - it seems to have lost the file system "The file or directory is corrupt and unreadable" and if I run chkdsk it says "Check disk cannot be performed because Windows cannot access the disk". So in this case it is recognised by Windows which is hopefully a good sign :) Thanks for your help, --Fir0002 23:18, 24 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Give me a couple minutes to dig up the exact URL's and I'll post em. - If all else fails, I'll drop an ERD disk in the mail to ya. — Ched (talk) 23:36, 24 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Probably UBCD for Windows is the short single answer for what you're looking for. Download the ISO file and burn it to disk.  Then Boot the problem computer from that CD.  Without going into a long-winded RAMDRIVE explination, you'll want to have the thumb/flash drive you're recovering your data to plugged in before you boot. (or USB drive it that's what you're using).


 * UBCD for Windows - makes a bootable CD that can be used for many problem computers.
 * UBCD - Is for more advanced techs. It's a dos/DSL type of thing.  Command line, *.bat file menu type of thing.  Has a lot more of the low level tools that can let you access disks directly.
 * The background

(cc: primary to Fir0002 talk) — Ched (talk) 00:02, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Bart PE - Is the group that devised a way reverse engineer the Windows OS stuff - (well, not exactly, due to legal issues). If you like building your own boot disks - this is where to start.
 * download - the download


 * addendum: If you're comfortable with torrents and P2P kind of stuff, you could look for the commercial program called ERD Commander 2005. There's also another one called SmartMAU (or something like that), but it's not a powerful (IMO).  — Ched (talk) 00:14, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Yo
Hi, I redid this part. You tole me to try to make it more understandable... and I took it out of a list format; part of the reason the article failed GA. Right now, I'm thinking that part is way better. TechOutsider (talk) 02:09, 25 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider
 * Looks great! I tweaked the "whitelists whitelists", if you were wanting to word a different way - just change to your choice.  Looks very very good Tech, I'm impressed.  Has anyone said anything to you about inline links yet?  I thought I saw something about that a while back, but haven't run across it in a while.  Also, check the NIS talk page, I left my suggestions there too. — Ched (talk) 02:22, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Even better now Ched 68.218.148.160 (talk) 23:58, 25 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider

Kristin Ouellette
Why did you delete me from the Ouellette page? I'm a badass. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.85.228.74 (talk) 03:30, 25 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, there are several reasons I deleted the entry.

If you would like some help getting started, I'd be more than happy to help you set up an account, and show you where to start! ;) — Ched (talk) 03:38, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) It was a redlink entry.
 * 2) Wikipedia does not consider Facebook a Reliable resource
 * 3) Editors don't usually contribute to their own articles, see WP:COI
 * 4) Items like that fall under some strict guidelines at WP:BLP

Gladiator
Hi and thanks for the anti-vandal work. RegardsHaploidavey (talk) 14:57, 25 February 2009 (UTC)


 * WOW - ;) <* Great big smile *>. Made my day! — Ched (talk) 15:00, 25 February 2009 (UTC)


 * It's a pleasure! And thanks for the thanks, Ched.Haploidavey (talk) 15:24, 25 February 2009 (UTC)


 * And thank you for the thank you for ... awwww ... never mind. Happy editing ;) — Ched (talk) 15:26, 25 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I didn't even notice that one... monsters on the page, who'd have thought it?? At Wiki??? No problems at all and thanks for yet another fix and the compliment. All the best Haploidavey (talk) 00:00, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Edits to Leger
Thanks much for providing feedback on my edits to the Leger page. Per your request, I provided citation to $100k reward. See page 2 of the Boston Globe story. I hope that I am now in compliance. Best, Itri4funtimes (talk) 15:18, 25 February 2009 (UTC)itri4funtimesItri4funtimes (talk) 15:18, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem - glad I could help ;) — Ched (talk) 15:21, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

in use template
looking at the MBAM history, I see that you used an "in use" or "under construction" template? Can you provide me the info. necessary to display the template?TechOutsider (talk) 00:53, 26 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider


 * At the top of the page, just type in (without the quote marks:) (or copy paste)


 * 1) "  " to add a tag at the top that says I'm right in the middle of editing.
 * Hopefully others will respect this, and not cause you edit conflicts - or delete text that you haven't posted references for yet.
 * 1) "  " puts a tag that says this page is currently being worked on over the next few days.
 * I use this one to let folks I haven't left it unfinished, and will return to add references, copyedit, spell check etc.. Sometimes folks will see that - check history to see if anyone is currently editing in the last few minutes - and maybe even chip in a little help. If I'm not going to be back for a while, I usually remove it.  — Ched (talk) 01:07, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Spam Blacklist
Hi, just editing the Norton articles, and I tried to reference the Washington Post. It was blacklisted. I checked the local and the global blacklists, however I could not find the root domain on either one. I tried again, and it was blocked yet again. I sure hope this doesn't count against me. Does it? I have posted a dispute at the appropriate place. Can you try referencing the Washington Post, see if you experience the problem? Unless it counts against you in any way. TechOutsider (talk) 01:55, 26 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider
 * WHOA wait a second ... back the firetruck up. Washington Post is blacklisted? ... where do you see that?  I see NY Times used all the time.  Where are these local and global blacklists?  In other words, count me in!! ... I'm looking into this. — Ched (talk) 02:01, 26 February 2009 (UTC)


 * http://voices.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2006/07/screwy_update_confuses_norton.html TechOutsider (talk) 02:10, 26 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider


 * Ok, just tried it out again, and it seems to work. Either it was a temp. glitch, or someone saw my complaint. Anyways, on to another issue, it's like this:

"text. text.".

Is that the proper way to format it? TechOutsider (talk) 02:13, 26 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider


 * (ec) :::hmmm .. well, it is a blog - I don't see any reverts to Norton AV though, did you get an error when you tried to do the save page? I already posted to the whitelist page - heading to WP:RS shortly too. — Ched (talk) 02:15, 26 February 2009 (UTC)


 * have you started using that cite form yet? .. on the edit bar where you fill in the fields? ... I'll look — Ched (talk) 02:16, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

firing up mIRC - be back shortly — Ched (talk) 02:24, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It's being worked on — Ched (talk) 02:58, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Transparent Background to Pictures
How can I remove the background, so that the picture shows up in Wikipeida with a checkerboard background? I really don't want to install some massive and paid-for software, such as Photoshop, though. (User:TechOutsider)
 * Well, first let me admit that I'm more familiar with .jpg and .gif than I am, with the newer .png and .svg formats. I use PSP and Corel, (and sometimes Photoshop), but GIMP would fill your needs.  My procedure is to lasso (capture / select) the part of a graphic I want, copy it, then create an empty .gif (or whatever) - and paste the copy into it and save. — Ched (talk) 01:29, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

It's painful
I have to remove much of the criticisms from NIS. I actually added some of them myself. However, forums are considered primary sources and therefore cannot be used, expect for in special places. As a matter of fact, the article on Returnil, which I expanded, is currently being dismantled because most of my sources were primary. For example, Norton's SONAR does not work with 64 bit versions of Vista. Google that and all the results you get are have a community.norton domain, which means some user posted about it at the Norton forums, ad primary source. Google Norton and SpySweeper. Known issues. However, I just could not find any independent and reliable source. Even try googling Norton Internet Security 2006 performance issues. NIS06, by popular opinion on the net, is described as bloated and slow. Yet, the hits in google are from forums and like sources. No ind. publication really emphasizing this thing, or in depth. However, I'm not willing to let the article fail GA again. TechOutsider (talk) 02:48, 27 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider


 * Painful? .. awww, comeon now - we love this stuff ;). Don't try so hard to take such big steps all at once.  Instead of trying to take an article from stub/start to GA in one big jump, do some work, shoot for C-class, work on something else for a bit, read through policy and guidelines, talk about it on the relevant talk pages so you understand what it means, then come back and go for B-Class, then A ... then worry about getting a GA.  It's a slow tedious process, but not something to stress out over.


 * Myself, I kinda work on new articles first, get em out of the MfD or AfD trash can - or often the NPP stuff where it's just beginning. Then I'll let other editors sort some stuff out for a while, come back if it's an article I enjoy - and try to bump it up a bit.


 * Yeah, I see. Many, in fact most editors, simply make just a couple of changes, such as a spelling correction. I was looking at NIS's article history and even though the article was crap at the beginning, most people that visited simply made a minor edit. TechOutsider (talk) 21:47, 27 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider


 * The NAV article has a lot of personal opinions in the Criticisms section; I'm just going to let that slide .... TechOutsider (talk) 21:57, 27 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider

1.5 spacing?
Check out this section. Why does the text look like it's been double spaced? TechOutsider (talk) 02:55, 27 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider
 * I'm not sure, I wondered about that the other day when I tweaked a couple things. Maybe ask at the help desk, or one of the editor assistance pages. — Ched (talk) 03:06, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * better? — Ched (talk) 03:09, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Kolkata Metro
Next time before reverting any edits and identifying them as 'vandalism' and then undoing yourself saying it was done by an established editor. CHECK WHAT THE PERSON HAS EDITED. I changed Damdam to Dum Dum, as that is the OFFICIAL NAME. I Just now changed Tollyganj to Tollygunge as that is the official name. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 14:50, 27 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Hello Rsrikanth05. Thank you for coming to talk to me about this.  Yes, you are absolutely correct in your statement that I had reverted the "Dum Dum" edit, reviewed the content and editor, and immediately restored the article to the version that you had last edited.


 * As is my practice when I am in doubt about an edit, I review the editor, and the content. I found that you are an extremely valuable editor who contributes quality content to our web-site. - at which point I immediately reverted my edit to the version that you had last made, and in fact made note of that fact in my edit summary (which is much more time consuming than just clicking on an undo button).  I apologize if I have upset you, and I ask you to consider something please: The tools that Wikipedia provides in an attempt to keep vandalism off our web-pages, actually flagged the edit "Dum Dum" as vandalism, and indeed where I live (in the USA) it is considered a derogatory term, and in fact a common way that vandals attempt to discredit an article.  My goal is to simply maintain the integrity of our articles, and as you noted in your post above - I credited you as an "established editor".


 * I am not familiar with the Tollygan vs. Tollygunge edit, as I do not edit the article in question (Kolkata Metro), so I completely trust your judgment on that issue. Again, I appreciate you coming to me with your concerns, and allow me to reassure you that your integrity has not been questioned, and your reputation as an editor has in no way been damaged. I hope that you can accept my reply as truthful, and that you will harbor no ill feelings.  I wish you a pleasant day/night,  and happy editing. — Ched (talk) 15:55, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree, it may be deragatory, but NEXT TIME, do a quick search for whatever it is, before just undoing it and then undoing your own actions. It makes me feel like someone else is taking credit for what I did. Also, next time, please POST on the other persons talk page as a sign of courtsey, instead of posting on YOUR OWN page and leaving a callback message on my page. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 17:59, 27 February 2009 (UTC)


 * And one more thing: What may be derogatory to you may not be for us, and vice versa. Fakht or Fuckt means only in Marathi.--Rsrikanth05 (talk) 18:06, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

New Reply!
Edit Centric (talk) 21:33, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Good heavens - I could not have dreamed of a better post, at a better time, from a better person. N ote the above thread (now a dropped stick) ;) — Ched (talk) 22:02, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Sup tag?
What is a "sup" tag? TechOutsider (talk) 21:49, 27 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider


 * "sup" is a tag that tells the embedded text to display as superscript. When it was used in conjunction with the ref tag - it caused a funkey alignment for the sentence, and was the likely culprit for the spacing issues in that paragraph.  There is sup, and sub - sub is a subscript (footnote kind of thing)  example.

The sub I mentioned puts it at the bottom. Hope that helps — Ched (talk) 22:01, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * If I have this text - and I put the sup tags around it like this
 * If I have this text ... it will look like
 * If I have this text

GA review .. how bout it?
Are you willing to do the GA review? You qualify; you obviously aren't a die-hard Symantec supporter; you just used their products a little in the 90s because you had too, right? And you didn't make that many changes to the article. TechOutsider (talk) 01:36, 28 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider
 * I'm not a member of any official assessment team or anything, but sure - drop me a link, and I'll be happy to contribute. As far as my knowledge of Norton, when I was an network admin in the 90's, we ran Norton for a while, and now, as a self-employed "tech",  I see it a couple times a week or so doing house-calls for computer related services.  I've run into v2009 a couple times in the last month or so, and I'm impressed - great improvements - but no, I haven't installed it on any of my personal computers.  You doing a peer review, or going to one of those assessment boards?  Either way, drop me a link and I'd be happy to help. ;) — Ched (talk) 01:46, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a GA nomination. The talk page is here. []
 * About v2009. As with all security suites, it's boring after the hype wears out. Right now, it just sits in my tray staring back at me. Before, I would click and provoke the tray icon at least 120 times a minute. So I started using Kaspersky on my Windows 7 side ... got boring, now switched to Nod32 v4 beta. Both Kaspersky and Nod are actually nice; however I don't feel like replacing NAV09 on my productivity side (Windows XP); it's such an integral part of my computer and switching would mean a big learning curve for the other users of my computer. Have you heard about Norton 360 v3 yet? Don't buy it; it feels like a mess, honestly. Just NIS's features and menus pasted all over the place. Psh. With a highlighter yello interface. Horrible. I'm open to other security suites. TechOutsider (talk) 02:32, 28 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider

Cigarettes
Only cigarettes are mild ... right Ched? TechOutsider (talk) 02:43, 28 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider
 * I'm not sure I understand? Something I'm doing with the trojan merge? ... thinking here - I'm just don't know what you're referring to, LOL, sorry ... clue me in. — Ched (talk) 02:47, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
 * You mentioned that once when editing the Norton articles and I thought that was quite humorous. Just wanted to bring it up for no reason. See RandomnessTechOutsider (talk) 02:51, 28 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider.
 * ahhhh .... ok ... gottcha. lulz ;) — Ched (talk) 02:52, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Norton Internet Security MAC ed.
The only reason this article could fail GA is because of the MAC section. Can you help expand that particular section; I'm deaf to the article's shortcomings after my hundreds of edits. TechOutsider (talk) 02:51, 28 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider
 * (ec) I'll take a look late Sunday - I'll be busy all day tomorrow with Red Cross (First Aid, CPR) training classes and such. Then I have a few jobs to do in the evening - one quite elderly lady requires taking a bit of time explaining why POP and HTML mail is different. But I will look at it.  Also have that Trojan merge I need to get done, and new article Shutdown Day that I'm working on.  Then there's the Malwarebytes article that I found some good info on, want to get that updated too.  I'm not sure how one gets behind in volunteer work, but somehow I seem to have managed ... LOL. — Ched (talk) 02:59, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Ha nice article. TechOutsider (talk) 05:25, 28 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider

Just filling up your talk page
I remember when we clashed over the Norton articles .... back when I was slightly biased. I remember the first time you ventured to communicate with me. And look at us now :) TechOutsider (talk) 02:56, 28 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider
 * <* smiles *> .. yep, sometimes it's a little harder with text than it is sitting at the bar havin a beer, cause you can't tell the tone of voice in what someone is writing. You're a good editor, and you've learned a ton since starting, I'm proud to know you.  Just curious, are you in the USA?  ... none of my business - just wondered. — Ched (talk) 03:02, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep; I've learned a lot. I didn't know how to make a line like his before (|), and recently I found out. I didn't know how to reference; i just used external links. Now I know. I didn't know how to make a wikitable. Now I do! Yay! TechOutsider (talk) 05:26, 28 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider

Fail
Talk:Norton_Internet_Security/GA2. Everything was good except for fact NAV was to be merged into the NIS article! Argh! I'm really going to have trouble diff. between the two since their feature set changes each year. TechOutsider (talk) 05:35, 28 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider
 * More specific. How do I merge the system requirements; both have different requirements? Could I do like a ...

256/512 MB RAM needed; where the first # applies to NAV and the second # goes for NIS?

Alternatively, could I just make NAV a little subsection on the bottom, removing all of the version history except for the 2009 version information? TechOutsider (talk) 05:40, 28 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider

And of course, what to name the new article? Norton Internet Security/Norton AntiVirus. Or could I just make redirect pages? TechOutsider (talk) 05:41, 28 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider


 * Hmmm ... not sure - I was just looking at the review. Something about the closer.  Only been here a couple weeks?... I don't think so!  Someone that knows their way around pretty well.  Not that it's important, but yea - a merge at this point could be tough.  Not sure I'd put AV at the bottom, but yea would need to create a section, and several subsections.  The tough part's going to be cleaning out the dup stuff. — Ched (talk) 05:45, 28 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Norton security products? ... don't know, but that can be done after the merge. — Ched (talk) 05:45, 28 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Don't forget about Norton 360. I may have to merge that as well. I see that you have rollback capabilities; you may have to use them. How bout under Version History, at the bottom, I just say taht NAV has everything mentioned above cept' for .... Or should I make NAV come first and then at the bottom say NIS has all of the above + ... ?TechOutsider (talk) 15:41, 28 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider
 * Ok, everything's going somewhat smoothly now :) Thanks for all your help! I am receiving a lot of support. TechOutsider (talk) 15:58, 28 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider


 * Hey Tech, I don't use rollback for that kind of thing - rollback is only for very clear cases of vandalism. Don't worry too much about the merges yet (other than the one of Trojans -- and I'm about 1/2 through that one.  Just because 1 editor says one article should be merged - doesn't make it so.  I'm still a little in doubt about that last article assessment thing - not sure that holds water.  Wish I could do a checkuser on that editor - it's someone that's been around - but has created a new account.  I'll take a closer look at NIS, NAV, and 360 later tonight.  Yep, there's a lot of great folks here that can and will help - no doubt! — Ched (talk) 20:50, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Graphs
I love doing graphs, and statistics in general. Just tell me what you need done and I'll get right on it. :) &mdash; neuro  (talk)  09:33, 28 February 2009 (UTC).

Constants
Right now I am trying to get the point across that NIS includes NAV + Firewall. Because that doesn't change. Only the little features change year to year. Do I make the article clear enough? TechOutsider (talk) 17:07, 28 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider

Software Info Box
How many software info boxes should/can I have? TechOutsider (talk) 21:50, 28 February 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider
 * Well, I'm not sure I agree with merging the two pages, but I would have one box for NIS and one for NAV. — Ched ~ (yes?) 00:27, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well that's the reason why GA status is on hold. Can I challenge? However, I agree; the two articles should be merged. TechOutsider (talk) 03:03, 1 March 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider
 * OH ... You think the two articles should be merged? ... hmmm I'm surprised, given the amount of work you've put into both of them. It doesn't really matter to me one way or the other.  The GA review doesn't need to be "challenged" as such.  All editors are encouraged to state their viewpoints, I've just made a comment myself.  In the end, it will depend upon consensus.  Now if you can figure that one out - you're better than most folks here ... LOL. — Ched ~  (yes?) 03:16, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No. The ga review specifically mentioned to merge the two articles. Ok, I read the ga talk page, and you got it right. I agree with merging and I've already done so much. I think that they both share a common thread and merging is actually best. Anyways, I need help developing the opening statement for the newly merged article ...

Norton AntiVirus and Norton Internet Security, developed by Symantec Corporation, provide malware, exploit, and in the case of Norton Internet Security, online identity protection. Both products are compatible with the Microsoft Windows and Macintosh OS X operating systems.TechOutsider (talk) 03:19, 1 March 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider


 * umm .. ok? That means you want to merge them? — Ched ~ (yes?) 03:22, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes. I actually do. It has always been a pain to "sync" the two articles. TechOutsider (talk) 03:24, 1 March 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider
 * OK... then go ahead and start copying the stuff from NAV over to NIS - when you're done, PROD NAV. From what I can see in a brief skim through, I'll admit that the bulk of NIS is actually NAV, with the firewall and spam filter thrown in.  I understand why you think the merge makes sense. — Ched ~  (yes?) 03:33, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * About the software infobox ... do I just put them on top of one another? The only thing that varies is the picture ... Can I have two pics? Or should I just illustrate NAV later in the article? TechOutsider (talk) 03:35, 1 March 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider
 * I'd just use one info box, if the pic is that much different - use it further along in the article. I wouldn't put a second info box for NAV, I just note the differences in the section covering NAV. — Ched ~  (yes?) 03:39, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Naming the article
What should I name the new article? I'm just going to move it so the wikilinks that link to the article aren't suddenly outdated. TechOutsider (talk) 03:51, 1 March 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider


 * I'm thinking about Norton from Symantec; that's their logo.TechOutsider (talk) 03:56, 1 March 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider


 * Do a RfC first - see what others think. Let me know the link when you do.  If you want me to do it, let me know. — Ched ~  (yes?) 04:01, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes please; I am not familiar with the process. TechOutsider (talk) 04:06, 1 March 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider

Heidelberg Raceway
I replied on my talk page. I notice that you're planning this article on Heidelberg Raceway. I'd love to help! It was one of the original NASCAR tracks for Strictly Stock's (now Sprint Cup) first season! Of course I have lots of sources for a track that important. I'd expect it to be an easy WP:DYK.  Royal broil  05:11, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure, glad to help on Heidelberg. Is it okay for me to work on it in your sandbox? When I'm done, should I move it to mainspace to preserve the edit history? I've put significant effort into Tim Richmond lately. It was in sad shape. I'm closing in on nominating it for WP:GA.  Royal broil  05:33, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The track held 4 Sprint Cup events (as Strictly Stock and Grand National) plus 1 NASCAR Convertible race . That makes it inherently notable. It was an original NASCAR track. I've found enough independent reliable sources that it won't matter anyhow. Yes, I know OrangeMike - even before he was an admin. We worked together at WikiProject Wisconsin.  Royal broil  05:49, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I've done a lot of the work on the older drivers! About the deleting of userpages - I noticed a least a week ago that something was going on in the deletion log. I'm like you - I don't worry about what other people are doing here in situations like this. I hate political things like that. I think that why so many other people come and go - they get caught up and worried about situations like this.  Royal broil  06:09, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Cool, and very good advice too. Huntster told me the same thing, (and I pretty much have blind faith in him), so I moved the AN stuff off my watchlist.  I have to plead guilty to peeking in every once in a while, just to see what's going on though.  Making a note to myself to stop doing that! ;) I'll dig out my NASCAR books next week, and start getting involved there shortly.  I do want to get a one sentence stub Shutdown Day propped up a bit too.  I live about 7 miles from where Heidelberg used to be, and grew up at the track, so I look forward to working on the article with you. ;) reply— Ched ~  (yes?) 06:20, 1 March 2009 (UTC)