User talk:Chen Geller

April 2017
Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, your addition of one or more external links to the page Music of Star Wars has been reverted. Your edit here to Music of Star Wars was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to remove links in references which are discouraged per our reliable sources guideline. The reference(s) you added or changed (http://cuebycue.blogspot.co.il/2016/01/star-wars-1977-williams.html, http://cuebycue.blogspot.co.il/2016/01/the-empire-strikes-back-1980-williams.html, http://cuebycue.blogspot.co.il/2016/01/return-of-jedi-1983-williams.html, http://cuebycue.blogspot.co.il/2016/04/star-wars-ep-i-phantom-menace-williams.html, http://cuebycue.blogspot.co.il/2016/04/star-wars-ep-ii-attack-of-clones.html, http://cuebycue.blogspot.co.il/2016/05/star-wars-ep-iii-revenge-of-sith.html, http://cuebycue.blogspot.co.il/2016/04/star-wars-force-awakens-williams-2015.html) is/are on my list of links to remove and probably shouldn't be included in Wikipedia. If the external link you inserted or changed was to a blog, forum, free web hosting service, fansite, or similar site (see 'Links to avoid', #11), then please check the information on the external site thoroughly. Note that such sites should probably not be linked to if they contain information that is in violation of the creator's copyright (see Linking to copyrighted works), or they are not written by a recognised, reliable source. Linking to sites that you are involved with is also strongly discouraged (see conflict of interest). If you were trying to insert an external link that does comply with our policies and guidelines, then please accept my creator's apologies and feel free to undo the bot's revert. However, if the link does not comply with our policies and guidelines, but your edit included other, constructive, changes to the article, feel free to make those changes again without re-adding the link. Please read Wikipedia's external links guideline for more information, and consult my list of frequently-reverted sites. For more information about me, see my FAQ page. Thanks! --XLinkBot (talk) 13:36, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

April 2017
Hello, I'm De728631. Your recent edit to the page Music of The Lord of the Rings film series appears to have added incorrect information, so I have removed it for now. If you believe the information was correct, please cite a reliable source or discuss your change on the article's talk page. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Specifically the section about Fran Walsh, Viggo Mortensen and Billy Boyd being the composers of certain themes needs reliable references before it can be reintroduced. De728631 (talk) 13:57, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

June 2017
Please do not add original research or novel syntheses of published material to articles as you apparently did to Music of The Hobbit film series. Please cite a reliable source for all of your contributions. Thank you. Dl2000 (talk) 17:44, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Film Music pages
Thank you for taking the time to add so much information to the Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, and Hobbit music pages. They look so much better than they did before. Your work is appreciated. Adervae (talk) 22:18, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

October 2017
Please do not add original research or novel syntheses of published material to articles as you apparently did to The Hobbit (film series). Please cite a reliable source for all of your contributions. Thank you. DonIago (talk) 17:18, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

January 2018
Hi Chen, this is Frank Lehman. I appreciate the great amount of work you've put into the Star Wars Music page, though some of your recent contributions strike me as speculative and based on opinion (esp. opinion concerning composer intention and the well-foundedness of leitmotivic analysis) rather than published research. I also fear you may be misrepresenting some of what I've written. For example:
 * I don't concede, as you claim, to having identified "retroactively inserted or tracked themes" as exclusively "incidental motifs" -- for instance, I take Jabba's theme as it appears in Episode 4's Special Edition to be a representative of that proper leitmotif.
 * Regarding Kylo Ren's motifs as discussed in FN 111. All three (not four) are yes related, but detachable -- you hear them on different occasions independently of one another, especially in Episode 8. According to my criteria, this marks them as independent leitmotifs. As for the First Order motif; this is *not* associated closely with Kylo Ren in the Force Awakens; in fact, it's barely heard at all, and when it is, it's in connection with scenes of the First Order generally speaking, not any one particular character.
 * I've since removed the choral writing from Episode 8 from my catalogue because there's no melodic similarity between the themes. I'd appreciate updating FN 121 accordingly.
 * FN 124 contains an crucial misinterpretation of a pair of motifs I (and others) have identified. The Map Motif in Episode 7 is not identical to the Planetary Descending figure. The Map Motif is a melodic alternation of the chordal fifths of two tritonally related minor triads, and is used very consistently and specifically in TFA with reference solely to the Map and Luke's mysterious whereabouts. The planetary descent figure in ANH and elsewhere is based on an alternation of the *root* of tritonally related major chords. They're of a piece stylistically, yes, but aren't the same and needn't be subsumed into one another.
 * FN 126 seems to exist solely to critique my work, when again, if you refer to my criteria, the decisions regarding B-themes and sections is perfectly explicit and consistent. As I noted on JWfan, you're free to disagree with my criteria, but that is a subjective matter and one I'm not sure is appropriate for Wikipedia.

Thanks for hearing me out on this!

Best wishes, Frank — Preceding unsigned comment added by Falstaft (talk • contribs) 01:13, 13 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Very well. I'm nothing if not attentive. Its a crying shame that we don't have a Williams-approved menu of themes. In the absence of such a document, however, I took the various analyses I could find - chief among them are Matessino's, Adams' and yours, and synthesized them as much as possible. Again, in the absence of a definitive list of themes, I had to not only provide a list, but also to refer to and contextualize any list that differed from the one featured in the article, both to avoid confusion and rampant re-editing by the less-informed. I view it as serving a similar purpose to your (very enlightening) section on "incidental" motifs. Unfortuantely, this proved to be very tricky to write clearly, and it certainly needs another pass or two. Now, to refer to your points one at a time:
 * As for your treatment of tracked themes - that's fair.
 * The third Kylo Ren motif strikes me as an introduction figure to his conflicted theme. Generally, all my other sources largely took an exclusive approach, and identified themes, however long-lined and multi-faceted they were, as a single thematic idea, and I chose to side with that approach. Furthermore, that's the approach that Williams own words on the subject seem to imply. Its easy to deduce from his writing regarding the Imperial March in the Empire Strikes Back liner notes. Kylo Ren's material is the exception where Williams clearly spoke of a secondary theme, but not of a tertiary one.
 * Regardless, I think its important to reference for the sake of illustrating how others might see a leitmotif there where in fact there isn't one. I'll make my point a little more clear in the edit. As for the First Order motif - needs another listen, but I think I'll include it in the list.
 * They can be seen as variations of one another, so without the composer's intentions to hand, its still subjective whether this is a stylistic device or a deliberate leitmotif. I'm more than willing to include it in there, if you feel there's a strong case there.
 * I wouldn't say criticize, but rather contextualize. In reconciling the various analyses, I occasionally had to resort to personal judgment. As I said, I simply sided with the majority of the accounts, and with what I was able to deduce of Williams own words on the subject. It, like the entirety of the section, can certainly be expressed differently!


 * As an aside, you'll notice some of my sources identified some of your "incidental" motifs as themes, and gave them a clear designation. E.g. your "ominous arpeggios" are, according to John Takis and Karol Krok, a "Mystery motif", your "Lydian Fanfare" as a motif for victory, etc. Very interesting. I'll be thinking about what to do with those.


 * Thank you for your input! Expect the article to be changed within a day, and feel free to offer further input once it does. -Chen Geller (talk) 18:18, 13 January 2018 (UTC)-

March 2020
Please refrain from making edits on Wikipedia pages such as those you made to Production of The Lord of the Rings film series, without first discussing your changes on the article's talk page, Your edit(s) require discussion to establish consensus as this is considered a type of change that other editors should be allowed to comment on. Your edits do not appear to have been discussed and have been reverted. Thank you. - FlightTime  ( open channel ) 23:09, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

FAR LotR (1978 film)
I have nominated The Lord of the Rings (1978 film) for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Femke Nijsse (talk) 20:19, 20 December 2020 (UTC)