User talk:Chesdovi/Archive 8

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File:Husiatyn Reb Yitzchok.jpg listed for deletion
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January 2014
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 * segment includes Rav David Bar Hayim of the Hardal camp who heads Machon Shilo Institute, ( http://machonshilo.org/PDF/Machon_Shilo_Al-HaNissim_YA_YY.pdf Machon Shilo  Al HaNisim for Yom Ha'

Topic ban
As far as I can tell you are still topic banned from all IP related topic areas. This edit seems to be a clear violation. If you are willing to self revert the edit I would be happy to assume a good faith mistake. Regards Dlv999 (talk) 10:39, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

File:Volozhin yeshiva.jpg
Hello. I'm looking for better (best) quality of File:Volozhin yeshiva.jpg. Is it possible? Very important!!! Thank You for help! shwx (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:20, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Isaac Chelo
Hi, both you and I have at times cited the itinerary of R' Isaac Chelo in different articles. I just stumbled across a footnote on page 227 of Prawer's "The History of Jews in the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem":
 * Students of itineraries always remember the very famous and clever forgery of a mid-19th-cent. scholar of repute, E. Carmoly, who invented the itinerary of one Isaac Chelo. This itinerary is unfortunately still being quoted by unwary scholars, even though the forgery was proved almost 50 years ago.

This is Isaac Hilo, an orphan. Yoel Elitsur in Ancient place names in the Holy Land, p183, gives at least 3 references in support of the forgery theory, all in Hebrew. It seems that mentions of Chelo will need to be qualified or deleted. Zerotalk 06:59, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

1517 pogroms
Hi,

You participated to a discussion on that article. A short mind would be welcome here. Pluto2012 (talk) 17:56, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Demographic Changes in the Safed Jewish Community of the 16th Century.jpg
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Merger of 1517 Hebron pogrom and 1517 Safed pogrom articles
Following your remark at the talk:1834 Safed pogrom, you are welcome to participate in merger procedure of 1517 Hebron pogrom and 1517 Safed pogrom articles into Jewish communities during the 1517 Ottoman-Mamluk war. Discuss it at talk:1517 Safed pogrom.GreyShark (dibra) 21:56, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

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March 2014
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Possibly unfree File:Abraham Friedman of Sadigura.gif
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Clarification motion
A case (Palestine-Israel articles) in which you were involved has been modified by which changed the wording  of the discretionary sanctions section to clarify that the scope applies to pages, not just articles. For the arbitration committee -- S Philbrick (Talk)  15:26, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

New West End Synagogue
Thank you for creating New West End Synagogue. Would you be able to add more in-line references please?Zigzig20s (talk) 00:19, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Tefillin scrolls
Template:Tefillin scrolls has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. NSH002 (talk) 00:27, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Ephraim Padwa
There is a discussion at WP:BLP/N that you might want to participate in. § FreeRangeFrog croak 02:39, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

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ArbCom elections are now open!
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Disambiguation link notification for January 15
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DYK nomination of Jewish boycott of the Western Wall
Hello! Your submission of Jewish boycott of the Western Wall at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Drmies (talk) 18:52, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Please exercise courtesy
and WP:AGF. Your recent comments, "My "pushing of anti-Zionist POV" may be the only antidote to your pushing of Zionist POV. How many Israel orientated pages exist on Wiki? Too many to count." and this, "I recently saw I Met Adolf Eichmann. Testimonial was given by a Dutch Jewish lady who Eichmann saved from certain death "because of her legs". Do you think she was ever grateful the Nazis for saving her life? As a matter of fact, she was not." and this, "some (Zionists) generally preferred, understandably, that all anti-Zionists perish in the gas chambers." All here: are, er, problematic and certainly do not assume good faith on the part of editors you disagree with. Please take a deep breath, and think before your edit.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:44, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Hello!
This is completely irrelevant to Wikipedia, but hello fellow Brit who goes by the name of Ches. May you go far here. Happy editing. Ches (talk) 18:11, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Palestinian wine


The article Palestinian wine has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Article reads like an essay and full of WP:SYNTH. Author of article has extreme COI against the State of Israel and wishes to de-legitimize it at all costs. This article is a POVFORK and should be promptly deleted.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on |the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Sir Joseph (talk) 21:55, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Palestinian wine
Hello. I was going to review this DYK, but why don't you think this should be merged with Israeli wine? This is what it's called.Zigzig20s (talk) 01:05, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I nominated it for AFD, not sure why the system didn't tag you. Just letting you know. Sir Joseph (talk) 01:27, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Placing notes in the Western Wall
Hi, thanks for your work on this article. Why is the ref to the cherem of Rabbeinu Gershom in connection with reading notes stuck in the Kotel "bizarre"? Yoninah (talk) 17:19, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi. First and foremost: WP:COATRACK. Which source links the cherem to the wall notes? Chesdovi (talk) 17:33, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
 * The source that you deleted. Yoninah (talk) 17:34, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I see. Secondly. The extent of the mail ban is very much debated. I for one cannot fathom why anonymous notes are to be included in this very specific ban which was based on knowing the writers personal identity. This p'sak ("it is halakhically forbidden") has been issued by a singular non-notable rabbi (who is Shammai Kehas Gross?) and remains his own POV, yet the article states it as if the decision has been universally accepted. (Remember, we must adhere to WP:UNDUE within the article.) Chesdovi (talk) 18:15, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for February 2
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 * Thank you my dear bot. Chesdovi (talk) 18:56, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Nomination of Jewish boycott of the Western Wall for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Jewish boycott of the Western Wall is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Jewish boycott of the Western Wall until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Yoninah (talk) 00:29, 22 January 2016 (UTC)


 * record of that deletion, here: .E.M.Gregory (talk) 23:28, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

POV Pushing
You really need to stop with your anti-Zionist POV pushing. While Liebowitz might have been a great professor, he's certainly not notable enough to warrant a huge paragraph to push your POV. Same with Meah Shearim. It's part of Israel proper, if the PLO claims it as their own, goodie for them, but that doesn't go in the lead. You need to tame it or find another area to edit. If you want to right that some random professor doesn't like prayer at the wall, then do so but a sentence or two, not a whole paragraph. And also, know that Wikipedia is not some beis medrash, it's open to all. Sir Joseph (talk) 18:16, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
 * You removed the whole thing. Kindly trim it yourself if you are the expert. You outright removal seems rather disruptive. Chesdovi (talk) 19:10, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Disco fever?
"He denounced the Western Wall as a disco..." Is this a typo? I am visualizing a mirror ball and a bunch of disco dancers dancing to a Bee Gees song... :) --Guy Macon (talk) 15:55, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * The Wailing Wall Discothèque:
 * The abundance of articles, speeches, sermons, and letters to the press, by religious, political and rabbinical authorities, on the religious and national significance of the liberation of the Western Wall as the religious revival and national unity displayed by the mass 'pilgrimage' to the wall during Pentecost, which occurred ten days after liberation day, etc, etc; all this demands a clear response. Ever since the wicked King Menashe Ben Hizkiyahu placed statues and idols in the temple, and made his son pass through fire in the valley below the temple, and ever since the day a 'detestable abomination' was placed in the Temple by the Syrian-Greek King Antioch Epiphanes and his hellenized Jewish servants, there has been no desecration to compare with the pilgrimage to the Western Wall by 200,000 Jews in 20,000 car this Pentecost, and the fact that the Israeli police assigned special car-parks near the temple for those who visit it on the Sabbath; and there has been no disgrace to the Bible and Judaism to compare with the sight of thousands of Jews going every Sabbath to the Old City to buy "bargains" in the Arab Bazaar. As for national unity in the shadow of the wall, here is my proposal: let the space in front of the wall be fitted out as the largest discotheque in Israel, and let it be named the "Divine Discothèque". This will satisfy all circles and sections of the nation: the secular by being a discotheque; the religious by being called "divine". This will serve as a sublime symbol of the national unity represented by the coalition stretching from the National Religious Party to Mapam, and from Mapai to Agudat Israel in the Jerusalem municipality - a symbol of the atheist-clerical regime of the secular state known in public as religious. (Letter to Ha'aretz, 21 July 1967)
 * It seems he suggested that it be fitted out as one. Chesdovi (talk) 19:16, 10 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Wow! Thanks for that weird and wonderful piece of information. --Guy Macon (talk) 09:29, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

February 2016
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Insults
While I don't think your editing is beyond reproach (i.e., not perfect like mine), you don't need to put up with continual personal attacks. You should file a complaint at WP:AE that lists all the insults that you have received. Zerotalk 13:25, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:FEPetersWestern Wall.jpg
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Orphaned non-free image File:F.E.PetersWailingWall.jpg
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Possibly unfree File:MispedChodosh'67.jpg
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February 2016
You are presently edit warring on Western Wall. Your edits are being contested by multiple editors on the talkpage of that article. Please obtain clear consensus before you make further edits to this article, or risk being reported. Debresser (talk) 21:38, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Notification of clarification request
You are involved in a recently-filed request for clarification from the Arbitration Committee. Please review the request at Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment.

Thanks,Debresser (talk) 20:46, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Arbitration clarification request archived
The clarification request regarding the '' Palestine-Israel articles" arbitration case, which you were listed as a party to, has been closed and archived. For the Arbitration Committee, Kevin ( aka L235 ·&#32; t ·&#32; c) 07:31, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Palestinian wine
Hello! Your submission of Palestinian wine at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! BlueMoonset (talk) 19:19, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I see you edited yesterday, but didn't respond to this request. I'll let you have another 24 hours, to the standard seven days, but no more, since the issues raised are significant, and would require a good deal of work. I hope we hear from you before then. Thank you. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:33, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
 * It looks like I miscalculated: it's been seven days, not six, since I notified you above (or will be in an hour and a half). Someone has already marked the nomination for closure; I won't do it myself until those 24 hours have elapsed, but someone else might do so before then and be perfectly valid in doing so. You can still intervene so long as it hasn't closed; be aware that it could be closed at any minute, as it is one of the oldest unconcluded nominations. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:51, 5 March 2016 (UTC)


 * I have closed the nomination. I've also noticed that you have experience in writing good articles, so if you chose to take that route with it, please note that it can be renominated within seven days of a successful good article review.  Jolly  Ω   Janner  03:55, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

AE Action
Please see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Chesdovi_violating_ARBPIA_TBAN Sir Joseph (talk) 21:12, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

March 2016


A page you created has been nominated for deletion as an attack page, according to section G10 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

Do not create pages that attack, threaten, or disparage their subject. Attack pages and files are not tolerated by Wikipedia, and users who create or add such material may be blocked from editing.  Scr ★ pIron IV 20:52, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Question
The sentence "A committed anti-Zionist, Rav Kotler also helped establish Chinuch Atzmai, the independent religious school system in Israel" sounds like a non sequitur or even a contradiction. Perhaps it would be better to write that he was anti-Zionist somewhere else in the article? Debresser (talk) 06:43, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Israel Meir Kagan
I removed rabbi Israel Meir Kagan from Category:Anti-Zionist rabbis as this claim is unsourced. DGtal (talk) 10:38, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I must say it is not as easy as I thought finding RS about this issue. Chesdovi (talk) 23:27, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * In the future please find reliable sources before categorizing. Specifically in this case I doubt the word anti and Hofetz Chaim can fit into on sentence in any context, certainly not in the case of a founding member of the Agudah who almost made Aliyah. There is a book called בין שני כהנים גדולים that talks about Rav Kook and the H.H., though there are also books that claim the relationship was less positive. DGtal (talk) 06:42, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

It was only then that Rabbi Kagan acted upon his judgement by forbidding his students to join the Zionist movement. When the followers of secular Zionism defined Jewish nationalism as “a nation composed of the language and the land”, Rabbi Kagan disagreed. He held that the essence of Judaism is observance of the Torah and not sharing a common land or language. Jewish nationalism should consist of both religion and the land as one cannot exist without the other.

The change in his attitude can be ascribed to the fact that some of his contemporaries, such as Rabbis Abraham Kook, Samuel Mohilever, Isaac Reines, Nathan Zvi Finkel, Isaac Blazer, and others showed that it was possible to work side by side with the secular Zionists and that religion could nourish in the Holy Land

Regarding your ARE
I would like to refer you to Edjohnston's comments, "In my opinion, this request could be closed with no action if Chesdovi will agree to stop this behavior. Another possibility is to modify his topic ban." It's actually fairly reasonable for them to let you pass. I like you to consider going back and reading the comments there. Slowly, carefully. While you are compelled certainly to defend yourself, I do you might consider the legitimacy of some of the comments. Find if there's a common thread among any legitimate comments. If there are it might be worth acknowledging and perhaps what you intend to do to address this behavior.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 08:43, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
 * , I would like to know what ANA and Malik found so "appalling" and "deplorable" about the AFD at Palestinian wine. While I can understand some comments were uncalled for, they were made in frustration in direct response to similar comments by other editors. I do not at all get why my poem has been deemed so offensive. I am at a loss to explain why editors have deemed it unacceptable use the word Palestine/Palestinian from pages on Talmud rabbis. Referring to them as Palestinian is valid and I feel that by changing "Palestinian" to "Jewish", one needlessly removes the geo-political location marker. A few pages were created by using that term but it has been systematically removed:


 * 1) Rabbi Ammi: The most distinguished of these is a Palestinian amora of the third generation, with "Palestinian" removed by an IP.
 * 2) Rabbi Assi:, rm by IZAK
 * 3) Abbahu:, rm by Uriber
 * 4) Abba bar Zabdai: - intact
 * 5) Rav Zeira:, rm by IZAK
 * 6) Abba of Acre:, rm by IZAK
 * 7) Levi ben Sisi:, rm by IP
 * 8) Hoshaiah:, rm by IP
 * 9) Tanhuma bar Abba:, rm by IP.

I also created some similar pages, but "Palestinian/Palestine" has been removed from some of them, here by an IP. Debresser removed a few:, , , , and also nominated Palestinian rabbis at AFD. Chesdovi (talk) 14:50, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
 * While I agreed in the AFD that Palestinian Wine could stand on it's own notability, your conduct was conflict driven. Edjohnston's comments are very suggestive, we can either let this go or we can modify the ban if you do not agree to stop this behavior. Spartaz has asked you to trim your previous 1200, all of which are in comparison to the 750 that remian and most of which barely or doesn't address your behavior. If you really don't see anything wrong with your behavior, fine, but honestly I feel like you do or should. If you realize of any issue behavior that Ed seems to be hinting at, I'd use some of those 750 words to address that.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 19:18, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
 * It seems I was provoked and responded in kind. If the nominator had not attacked me personally in the actual nomination and had rather nominated the article on its merits alone, no conflict would have been initiated. Sir Joseph accused me of having a "serious beef with Israel," that my main goal is to "use Wikipedia to delegitimize Israel at every opportunity" and the article was made "to bash Israel." (Why was that not viewed as an "inflammatory AGF failure" by ?) Sir Joseph then went on to call the article (myself included?) "obscene" and further insinuated I was a self-hating Jew. This after he had pestered me earlier in regard to the Western Wall persistently calling me a "POV pusher" and alleging I was on the PLO payroll. I think my conduct over at the Western Wall was very reserved, taking into consideration how annoyed I was getting with SJ, . He even had the gall to warn me the G-d Himself would disapprove of my editing, . So much so, I refrained from filing a complaint as advised here. (Debresser had also joined the attack by carrying out a character assessment concluding I was a "really disgusting" person). After all that, I turned the tables on him at AFD, making remarks only in response to Sir Joseph having accused me of created the article as a weapon against Israel. The nomination should really have focused on whether the page was necessary in addition to the Israeli wine page, not to accuse me aiming to "delegitimize Israel."  The fact is, I retrospectively recognise remarks I made were unhelpful. It's difficult to keep calm and collected when ferocious accusations and personal attacks are lopped directly at you right left and centre. Chesdovi (talk) 21:48, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
 * It is not your remarks, it is your POV. Debresser (talk) 13:42, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I get it: I am not entitled to one, but you are. Chesdovi (talk) 14:12, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The problem is the combination of POV and editing. I try to keep my edits neutral. You yourself saw that I can add the word "Palestinian" when needed. You, however, try to push your POV with your editing, and that is detrimental. Debresser (talk) 15:34, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
 * "when needed..." And when, may I ask, isn't the word Palestinian "needed"? When the word "Jewish" can be use instead? "Jewish" delineates religion while "Palestinian" refers to the geographical area a person was active. You are neutral enough to add "Palestine" to Levant, so why remove it from Israel ben Meir di Curiel? Why indeed is it "controversial" to appear at Israel ben Meir di Curiel but not at Levant? Chesdovi (talk) 15:46, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I did not mean that "G-d" Himself" would disapprove of your editing, though I am sure He does. I meant it in a different way. Sir Joseph (talk) 20:38, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm sure He does, and of course you meant in another way, which was.....? I'm also sure He would like you to seek my forgiveness for the numerous disgraceful personal attacks you've made against me and, le'h, the saintly Satmar Rebbe, may the memory of the holy and righteous ones be for a blessing. Chesdovi (talk) 19:41, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Regarding that AfD
Regarding that AfD, I felt composing a poem to mock the AfD was extremely flippant, especially when combined with an abrasive editing attitude. Not that the conduct of Sir Joseph there was particularly brilliant, either. I also agreed the AfD was baseless (which is why I advocated keeping it, remember?) despite needing some work; the bulk of the material within was decent and well researched. AnotherNewAccount (talk) 17:05, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi
Hi Chesdovi, I was curious about something - you of course do not have to answer. I remember you and Debresser had disagreements over the word "Palestine", but I didn't recall you being overtly anti-Zionist. Did something change or did I just miss it? No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 20:17, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Something else
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is 79.78.168.63. Thank you. Debresser (talk) 21:16, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Your requested clarification
In regards to, You are banned from ARBPIA broadly construed. This is both in and out of article space. You can't touch the subject on wikipedia to put it simple. If you had for example brought a discussion of anything related to arbpia to my talk page you would be in violation of your topic ban.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 18:25, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
 * But I did not? Are you referring to Regarding your ARE? Chesdovi (talk) 18:28, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I was highlighting that would be a violation of your topic ban and mentioning that since this behavior seems to be a carry over from what lead to the topic ban then the page move should be considered a violation of your topic ban. Specifically the diff I provided where you discuss past moves being anti-Palestinian nature, by anti-Palestinian editors, or anti-Palestinian bias (however you put it). You can not go to war here as a Pro-Palestinian partisan, not on ARBPIA related subject, and you can't shop this issue out to other articles. You have a Strong bias in this area that has lead you to disrupt wikipedia. This has lead to your currently active topic ban and it stands to lead you to other topic bans as you may notice at ARE. Please read WP:DR. Discuss the content not the contributor.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 18:57, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

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