User talk:Chief tin cloud

Alternative Contact
You can contact me on German Wikipedia, too.--Chief tin cloud (talk) 09:10, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Joliet Jake
If you've got the Standard Catalog handy, will you check for the '30 Marquette? I deleted the Clymer ref here, because I'm not sure he meant the '30 coy & not the '12 one it was originally attached to, & I hesitate to fix it to the wrong one.  TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 03:25, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

July 2010
Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute to the encyclopedia, but when you add or change content, as you did to the article Talk:Steam car, please cite a reliable source for the content of your edit. This is particularly important when adding or changing any facts or figures and helps maintain our policy of verifiability. Take a look at Citing sources for information about how to cite sources and the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Old Moonraker (talk) 17:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)


 * OK. I will correct that soon. Thank you for reminding me. --Chief tin cloud (talk) 17:54, 5 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Just added detailed source to the "Listing" chapter. As far as the 'Fardier' is concerned: Last time I read about it's accident was yesterday in the German Wikpedia article "Dampfwagen" (equivalent to this article). Now I have looked over Cugnot again and found this article in the English Wikipedia Nicolas-Joseph Cugnot, complete with a sketch of the accident. Is that sufficient for verification? --Chief tin cloud (talk) 18:14, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
 * My edit was wrong and I have reverted myself: I read your contribution as an actual entry, rather than a talk page suggestion. Editor's talk page contributions shouldn't be changed by anyone else. Sorry. --Old Moonraker (talk) 20:13, 5 July 2010 (UTC)


 * If you look at the text in Nicolas-Joseph Cugnot you will see that it is unclear whether the accident actually happened. The current ref (4) links to a French page which is probably the most accurate (online source) on the subject.
 * It is not generally good enough to use another WP page as a reference. The normal practice would be to copy the reference to the new page, so that the article remains referenced on its own.
 * EdJogg (talk) 23:12, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Van Wagoneer

 * Thank you for the great reference on the Century Motor Vehicle Company. Just curious if you have any more info about Van Wagoner (or is it Van Wagoneer?} He has his own page as an auto car entity Van Wagoner but I am not so sure it is a company, but rather, should be indivdual bio instead and that the car he actually built was NOT called Van Wagoner, but Century?
 * Nconwaymicelli (talk) 8:06, 21 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I added informations that I found in the mentioned book The Standard Catalogue of American Cars, 2nd Edition, by Beverly Rae Kimes (editor) and Henry Austin Clark jr., 2nd Edition, Krause Publications, Iola WI 54990 (1985), ISBN 0-87341-111-0 (p. 253-254). Now, I checked Van Wagoner (spelled this way here) and found a small article, too (p. 1446). There are few informations which are not already included in the excellent WP article. Kimes mentions that there was another Barnes producing bicycles in Syracuse (George M. Barnes) who manufactured the Frontenac bicycle - and a Barnes steam car in 1899. The Van Wagoner steam car was result of a team work by Saul (who financed it) and Van Wagoner (who developed it) - much in the same way they later built the Century. --Chief tin cloud (talk) 19:22, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks Chief, well that clears it up. Yes, the Barnes Cycle Co. and Stearns Steam Carriage Company. I have to do some more checking on Frontenac. Barnes also made the popular Barnes "White Flyer" bicycle. Very interesting!--Nconwaymicelli (talk) 17:52, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

File talk:1941 Packard Station Wagon.jpg -- thanks
Thanks for adding the info re this classic old advert.

Assuming you are an old car buff, you may want to spend some time at the source, http://www.flickr.com/photos/autohistorian/ Lots more of this kind of thing, much of it free-licensed and suitable for use at Wikipedia. Note that most post-1923 ads could still be in copyright.

Have fun! Cheers, Pete Tillman (talk) 18:48, 5 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much for this valuable link. In fact, I have inscribed to flickr, too, some time ago. But somehow I can't re-enter. As I did very few over there I probably didn't nothing wrong... --Chief tin cloud (talk) 09:46, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Bentley Continental talk
Hi, sorry about this, I have just found your interesting correspondence and replied. Regards, Eddaido (talk) 02:16, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Stearns (automobile)
Thanks for your major addition to this article. However, a small part is rather mysterious:


 * Stearns built 243
 * a new model appeared already the new model year. It
 * 190

If you can remember what you meant, perhaps you could clean it up. If not, maybe that part should be removed. Happy editing! Chris the speller yack  04:55, 1 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Just removed it from article.--Chief tin cloud (talk) 08:33, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

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Merge discussion: Touring car and Tourer
You are invited to a discussion on the merging of the articles Touring car and Tourer at Talk:Touring car. I look forward to your participation and insight. Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 01:44, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I have acted on your argument that the term "tourer" is broader in scope than the term "touring car" by adding a section to the touring car article about the tourer, including a comparison and contrast with the touring car. I have also amended the lead section to include a summary of the "tourer" section.  Please let us know at the talk page of the article whether the changes made address your concerns adequately. Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 11:26, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Additional info on "Tourer"... any sources?
Regarding the additional meanings for "tourer" that you spoke of in the merge discussion: Do you have any sources that can be cited to back it up? The article has not been changed since your post, and the content still makes a "tourer" look exactly like a "touring car". Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 03:37, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll answer that on the Talk:Touring car page.--Chief tin cloud (talk) 13:07, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Adams-Farwell
Just expanded the Adams-Farwell article, following my work in the German Wikipedia. Much work, especially in a Foreign language...--Chief tin cloud (talk) 14:12, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

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 * Don't know which is the correct Asnières.--Chief tin cloud (talk) 16:31, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

March 2014
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 * None does really fit: Has a saddle, but is no All-terrain vehicle or "quad", and no steamer. In fact, it's a Motorised quadricycle, but this article handles only the European classifications for modern light four-wheeled motorized vehicles.--Chief tin cloud (talk) 19:23, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

September 2014
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 * carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=211882 carfolio.com: Specifications: 1921 Ace H 

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ArbCom elections are now open!
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Identification
Good morning CTC. What kind of car is this? Best regards, Eddaido (talk) 23:08, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Hello Eddaido, my guess is a Panhard. Best regards, --Chief tin cloud (talk) 23:33, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Do you think it would be OK if I asked for the file to be renamed 1899 Panhard & Levassor? I am concerned that many may believe it is an early Rolls. Eddaido (talk) 23:46, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Rolls in a Panhard
 * I tried to find out more about this car. The vehicle in the b/w photograph in the linked article appears to be not the same, although another P&L. It looks shorter, with a shorter bonnet, and without louvres. The "Panhard bible" tells that P&L built 457 467 cars in 1899, of which only 6 were exported. And we got a third 1899 P&L connected with CS Rolls. Capture reads that he got it early in 1899. While it in fact looks older than the other two, I was able to find the both bonnet designs of the other two on 1900 M4F 12 CV cars. M4F production started in 1897, with the earlier style front carried into 1899. So, my conclusion is that Rolls already got 1900 models in 1899.
 * While I'm not sure if this is sufficient to add the model name M4F, renaming this picture seems a good idea to me, too.
 * Than you for sharing this interesting piece with me.--Chief tin cloud (talk) 08:52, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I notice that about this time, ah, well maybe ten years later, US manufacturers released their next year models as early as July and in the UK they seemed to speak of "seasons" rather than calendar years yet still described the car as a (e.g. 1900) model. Maybe they both took their lead from Paris and perhaps there in Paris the 1900 models were available from summer 1899 as well? It has crossed my mind that an organisation like the VCC might know all about the particular car in the Hendre photograph. I might give that a try. Many thanks for your thoughts and investigations. I'll ask for the file to be renamed: File:Panhard & Levassor autocar, C S Rolls driver and George V.jpg. I'd better leave out a date for the moment. Thanks, Eddaido (talk) 09:22, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me. I think, too, that "model seasons" are not a modern invention. Probably, it was quite simple: The manufacturer built a badge of cars, and when they were finished, immediately started a new, improved series. Further, most car shows were late in the year back then, and they needed something new to exhibit.--Chief tin cloud (talk) 09:33, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
 * This is interesting: https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20932/lot/208/ but I don't think its "our" car. Eddaido (talk) 11:28, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh yes, it is. While it indeed is not the same car as above, the link answers another question. AX57 was registered as a 16 HP in the London Brighton Run, but in fact, it is a 12 CV. At least this is similar to the Rolls car. Both have 12 CV 3396 3296 cc Phénix (Daimler licenced) engines. For AX57, the difference lies in the applicable British and French taxation, with British RAC horsepower gives no problem, the old French does. Why were in 1902 3,3 litre Panhards in France taxed both as 12 CV as well as 15 CV?--Chief tin cloud (talk) 17:10, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
 * That's puzzling. Might the French government have changed the method of calculation at that time? I've looked at the tax horsepower article but that doesn't record a change around that time. Could it be the difference between a fr:cheval fiscal and a fr:cheval vapeur? Eddaido (talk) 23:34, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
 * de:cheval fiscal is less technical. There was a change in France, but much later, in 1913. I have still no information how the tax was calculated before 1913. I have to correct myself: This car is indeed a B1 (M4F) with the Phénix engine. B1/B2 were replaced in June, 1902 by the 15 CV Légère Type C and 15 CV Type H (O4F both). While the engine volume is exactly the same, the engine is a replacement called Centaure. A possible explanation is that bore and stroke differed between the old and new engines. Légère relates to a lighter chassis.--Chief tin cloud (talk) 07:34, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I think, as you suggest, a change in engine proportions is very likely to provide the explanation. Checking - are you saying the car in the picture with George V as a passenger is a B1 (M4F)? Eddaido (talk) 08:55, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I have no proof for that, but I'm quite sure. There is a very similar looking B1 with Driquet coachwork in Vermeulen's Panhard book, but as mentioned, as a 1900 model. Designations B1 and B2 were added in 1899, and both covered the 8 CV M4E (few built) and the 12 CV M4F. So, difference between B1 and B2 appears not in the engine, but perhaps either in wheelbase or engine location (M4F commercial vehicles also came with the engine mounted under the floor). Vermeulens book is very accurate, I just wish I had a similar source for my work on De Dion-Bouton...--Chief tin cloud (talk) 09:20, 27 July 2018 (UTC)