User talk:ChildofMidnight/Archive 14

Articles for deletion nomination of Everett Phipps Babcock
I have nominated Everett Phipps Babcock, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/Everett Phipps Babcock. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 00:19, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Yam
I just came across this, and thought perhaps you could use it as an example in a food-related article of some sort. Not sure what the title would be. Aymatth2 (talk) 20:39, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That same thing happened to a friend of mine, except the resulting root vegetable was a rutabaga. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:41, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Many thanks for that perfectly titled heads up
I think  it ended pretty good for a barfight. :-) (Feel free to invent a barnstar for me. lol) ... Hmmm, I smell bacon. Excellent. Proofreader77 (talk) 21:55, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Vegetarian bacon...
Who would eat such a thing? Soxwon (talk) 04:12, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
 * ...Your questions seems to be unanswerable. :) It doesn't look appetizing to me personally, but I suppose it's a case of different strokes for different folks. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:47, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Yo ho ho


 Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  is wishing you Seasons Greetings! Whether you celebrate your hemisphere's Solstice or Xmas, Eid, Diwali, Hogmanay, Hannukah, Lenaia, Festivus or even the Saturnalia, this is a special time of year for almost everyone!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding to your friends' talk pages.
 * Thanks. I'm excited for winter solstice. After that the days get longer. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:23, 13 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Winter solstice + Bacon = Hogswatch Lady  of  Shalott  20:47, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow! I thought you were just being punny. That's a real thing? I find it hard to read that content because there are so many strange words I've never heard of. I will have to try to comprehend what it's all about later when I can give the subject proper attention. Thanks for the note. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:46, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * "Real"? Not exactly, that is in the very, very parodic world known as Discworld, a series of extrememely funny novels by Terry Pratchett. (So it is punny, but I can take no credit for it.) Hogfather is the particularly relevant book in the series. Lady  of  Shalott  23:18, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh I see. It all seemed very unfamiliar to me, which makes sense now that I know it is part of a fanstasy storyline. I thought it was some sort of Wicca enterprise. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I like crafty witches of all sorts, from Martha Stewart, Judd Apatow and Joy Behar to Bobby Brown AND Whitney Houston. She's on Oprah right now. But the conversation is too heavy duty for me. I just want to hear her sing. I'm not saying those people are part of Wicca, but they do seem to me to be crafty witches. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:34, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Play house?
Not really my kind of an article, but you might want to use some of the refs I found, and expand Bhatukali (game)? cheers. - Spaceman  Spiff  20:54, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for resolving that thread
I'm sure it was bad idea for me to go to AN/I but I just felt baited. That said I know I need to keep cool and seek more productive dispute resolution processes than jumping over to AN/I. I appreciate the level headed approach.PelleSmith (talk) 01:00, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. Good luck. It may not stay resolved, but don't get flummoxed by all the warnings and poking. It's nothing personal and we're all human here. Well, most of us anyway. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:22, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Meanwhile outside the saloon, someone's tying a loop
FYI: ANI -- Proofreader77 (talk) 20:23, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the notice. Apparently it was too much to expect those trying to ban me from the ANI board to actually notify me of the discussion. C'est la vie. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:31, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Doesn't look like it'll happen anyway. But you might want to read the comments anyway, even the 'oppose' ones - there's no question that you should try and check your ANI interaction, if only to avoid drama. ALI nom nom 20:38, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Good point. I will do so. At the same time it should be noted that there are serious problems here that are worth pointing out. Mob rule and intolerance are very dangerous. Cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:51, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Oh, god no. Now it's all going to hell. Listen: When you do big, impressive stuff like this, it makes it impossible for everyone who agrees with you to keep being sympathetic.

To put it another way, let me tell you a real story. Back in the '70s or '80s this guy burned an American flag in protest to what the government was doing. So Congress tried to pass a ban on flag-burning. A whole bunch of people were against the ban, because it violated ideas of free speech, expression, etc. But during this whole time, the guy who had burned the flag was telling the press about how America was corrupt and the government was evil, and that made it hard for anyone to support him.

I don't have time to expand now, but do you see a relation? You shouldn't get up and yell at Wikipedia and at the community, it makes you look bad. ALI nom nom 21:01, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The thread seeking to have me banned from ANI was started by RD232 after I disagreed with his indefinite block of another editor. The block was based on complaints from those who disagree with an editor's political perspectives and content interests. It was also made based on an accurate but imperfect edit to the Diane Francis article, and imposed after the ensuing dispute was long over. The ANI thread showed that there was a clear consensus that the issue was resolved.
 * Those who don't like that editor or their opinions frequently dredge up old issues as a justifcation for out of process enforcement actions. I don't believe that sort of admin tool abuse is appropriate, and I am disgusted by the hounding and intimidation attempts that go on here. Collegial discussion should always be the first option.
 * The fact that the very same admin who unilaterally blocked a good faith contributor against consensus then started a new ANI thread trying to ban me from ANI discussions after I disagreed with their behavior only serves to prove how power crazed some admins have become. Unfortunately, they're not the only ones on Wikipedia suffering from a Napolean complex type infirmity.
 * I understand that people get upset when someone has the audacity to disagree with them, but as long as everyone respects consensus and abides by our policies there shouldn't be a problem.
 * As far as flags go, defacing U.S. currency is illegal, so perhaps burning of the flag should also be. But now I'm just playing devil's advocate. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:15, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Okay, so you probably don't know me from a hole in the wall, so take what I'm about to say with a grain of whatever: I wouldn't have banned you from AN/I...but when I saw that !vote go up I must admit I thought about supporting. Here's why I didn't: The points you raise are sometimes very good, and you sometimes provide a needed contrarian opinion. Also, you tend to stand up for the little guy, which is a cause near to my own heart. HOWEVER: here's why I had to think about supporting for even a moment: Your points, even the good ones (sometimes ESPECIALLY the good ones) are couched in hyperbolic, practically purple prose, and too often your defenses come off sounding like rants. It's hugely offputting for the people who WANT to agree with you, and just consolidates the poor opinion your detractors already have. Your words would be so much more valuable (or perhaps, "valued") if you just turned down the adjectives by about 95%. Stop seeing corruption where all there is is bumbling, incomplete knowledge, inexperience; stop seeing malice when all there is is marginal dumbassery. Seriously. I think it would serve you very, very well. (But as I said--grain of whatever.) GJC 23:05, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I think Gladys's words here are very worthy of your attention, CoM. Lady  of  Shalott  23:24, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree. She stated her case very well. I would like to point out that there is wp:drama and then there's drama. If we acknowledge that it's wrong to yell fire in a crowded theater, that doesn't preclude shouting "fire" and pointing it out when someone is trying to start one and burn the place down, does it? I try to maintain a sense of humor in this madhouse. While a softer touch and less sarcasm might be helpful to my cause, I find it difficult not to call out the the aggressive behavior, incivility and lack of courtesy. And I don't know a better way to expose the hypocrisy for what it is than to hold it up to the light. I'm only human. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:34, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * As an ANI lurker that only knows you by seeing your comments there, I also agree with GJC's comment. (Ah, the "someone is trying to start [a fire] and burn the place down" analogy is also one of those hyperboles that you should avoid, FYI, in case you thought that it was an adequate and moderate analogy. Idem for saying that people are fascists that are burning books) --Enric Naval (talk) 00:10, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you should take the time to actually look into the issues being discussed instead of commenting based on your first impressions after "seeing" my comments. I'm sorry that you don't care for metaphors. I find them amusing, interesting and (occasionally) insightful. ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:22, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I myself am a fan of metaphors; unfortunately I was trying to write while wrapping things up at work, and couldn't find an agreeable (or even a relevantly-disagreeable) way to metaphorize your AN/I posts. The closest I could get was something like "a small nugget of caramel wrapped in thirty-seven layers of overcooked cabbage", or something of that ilk. It involved candy, vegetables, and the notion of something good being wrapped in something barely-tolerable, and all things considered I think it's best that I wasn't able to concentrate. :) GJC 01:44, 15 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Jeez, glad to see that daft AN/I block proposal canned. Adults are needed there, whether or not the children agree. --Malleus Fatuorum 00:17, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I assume you are referring to the ban proposed by RD232 and the other problem editors, and not my quite reasonable counterproposal. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:24, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

CoM you are not made out of asbestos, imo a lot of editors want you to be permanently blocked, take care not to give them the opportunity as the wiki would be a colder place without you. Off2riorob (talk) 00:28, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Please don't use inflammatory rhetoric. See above. ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:38, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * heh. funny. :) Rd232 talk 00:42, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I try. Actually, I think "incendiary" might have been a better and less ambiguous word to use instead of inflammatory (too much swelling, not enough heat). But at least I didn't run hot and cold the way Off2rio did. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:51, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * (ec)Precisely why I made the ANI ban proposal. If CoM could tone things down a bit (per GJC), and generally assume good faith, then his contributions at ANI can be helpful. But ANI is a dispute resolution forum and too often his comments have a broader agenda of fighting The Man rather than resolving the dispute at hand. This approach serves no-one, including the editors to whose defence he is notionally coming. In this instance, encouraging Grundle to think he's done nothing wrong substantially diminishes the likelihood of an unblock. Overall, a voluntary break from these fora, for a longer period, would do CoM good. Focus on content for a while, and try not to hold grudges or assume the worst of people. Rd232 talk 00:42, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Your idea of an appropriate resolution to a dispute and mine may differ greatly. I don't see blocking good faith contributors, after those in dispute with them over content issues complain, as helpful to the encyclopedia. Meditiation and collegial collaboration seems a far better approach to me. I frequently have disagreements, sometimes fierce, with all manner of editors. But as long as they're interested in improving the encyclopedia and its article content (as I am), and willing to abide by our policies, the differences can usually be worked through. When individuals seek enforcement action as a means to winning a content dispute, that's a very problematic approach that does enormous damage to our community and to the Neutral Point of View we aspire to attain. ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:51, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You don't seem to appreciate the gravity of the particular incident - there's a reason it's in the BLP log. If it had been merely another synth violation, in a long line of synth violations and misuse of sources, it would have been different. If you want to discuss the actual incident and whether it, in combination with the history, merits an indefinite block, or some other length block, or something else, or nothing - then ANI is the place. The content and manner of your contributions on this issue have hindered rather than helped a substantive discussion on that, which is to Grundle's detriment more than anyone else's. Rd232 talk 01:05, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I made a concerted effort to refocus the discussion on the edit in question and the fact that the dispute was effectively resolved. I was trying to keep it all in perspective, while you were the one who issued an indefinite block unilaterally despite the consensus that the dispute was resolved. You then proceeded to dredge up an editor's history in a way that smeared him and inflamed the situation for effect (in support of your block). So I think you're pointing the finger in the wrong direction. If you try to work with Grundle I think you will find him to be one of the most collegial and friendly editors we have. He does a great deal of first rate content work (unlike many of the other participants in that discussion). He also has a great sense of humor, although his playfulness does get him trouble now and again. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:15, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Since my earlier comment I changed my position to... CoM you are not made out of asbestos, imo you have upset a lot of editors, stop causing trouble.Off2riorob (talk) 02:05, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Have you followed the Arb elections at all? I wonder how those discussions went and if anything interesting came of them? Who do you think will win? I think it's supposed to be announced soon... Hal and I voted, but given the secret process and voting format, I found participating beyond that too taxing. I suspect other editors felt the same way. Segregating discussion from the voting seemed like an awfully bad idea to me, but no worse that secret voting in a community where transparency and openness are valuable commodities. I mostly went by which usernames I liked the best. Have you seen my voting guide? It was pretty helpful. ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:12, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I voted, exciting stuff, the votes are being counted, they are in turmoil. I can't wait for the results. Sorry for messing round with my comment. Off2riorob (talk) 02:25, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I missed your voting guide, I voted for a couple of people I saw doing good work and I looked at the comments and questions and voted, It is an exciting time in an organization when elections are held and power changes hands. Off2riorob (talk) 02:30, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Alt.robot
[Copy from archive]
 * Proof, can you create a barnstar for fanning the flames? Bongo  matic  02:32, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I've been meaning to design one more personalized for CoM. This one surely fits ... but I'll see if full iconic representation of all facets can be achieved. :-) Proofreader77 (talk) 03:00, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Awarding me with a Nobel prize is premature at this point, although you might be able to justify giving me one based on the promise held out by future article contributions that I may make to Wikipedia. What is this Alt. robot thing? First it's automated secret ballots for Arbcons and now this. Hal, you can't control me!!! ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:28, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * By your command. -- 6.5+6.6 (aka Proofreader77 (talk) 19:30, 15 December 2009 (UTC))
 * I think you mean 6? There are many numbered entities, not all of them regenerated clones. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:40, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * (note: both 6's above are separately linked, genetically mixed, implications of .5 and .6? Indeterminate.^^) Proofreader77 (talk) 19:44, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * My apologies for the system malfunction. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:48, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * (Single-letter/numeral links easy to miss - enhanced visual signal processing upgrade available ;-) Proofreader77 (talk) 20:20, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Inna Gilmore
I guess it would depend on whether this person has released any albums. I can't tell whether or not she has. Badagnani (talk) 01:07, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'm not sure either. I don't know if the performance or the awards mentioned signify much. I'm leaning towards weak delete. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:27, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Bacon in popular culture
Hiya, I had created the template Bacon, and a deletion discussion for it was recently closed as Keep. However, before that, the "popular culture" section in it was removed. Do you think such a section might merit inclusion in the template? On a wider note, should the bacon content-drive perhaps suggest a few popular culture related articles to create/expand? Cheers, Cirt (talk) 09:32, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I try to avoid "popular culture", at least in so far as avoiding those words, because there is so much antagonism towards that type of subject and I don't like to waste my time working on content that is likely to be targeted for deletion. Is there alternative wording that can be used? Bacon in culture? I don't know... I think the role bacon has taken on in popular culture and the way it's been featured and used to symbolize certain lifestyle choices and food interests is well worth covering. Of all the articles I've worked on, the bacon mania article is the one that gets noted in the media (a lot). So clearly it's a notable subject of interest. Sorry for the rambling answer. I think there is some ambiguity with what would be included, but I support the concept. Was that section removed to make the template more palatable during the AfD? I have no objection to putting it back. Does it make the template too big? Should there be a separate category or template for those article subjects instead? ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:22, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * "Portrayal in visual media" has a very uppity and selective feel to it. - Spaceman  Spiff  18:37, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I like "bacon culture", but it does have a certain cultic feel to it, and I think Cirt is opposed to alternative worship groupings of that type? Gladys made a comment using cabbage as a metaphor and I can't get the image of the What's Happening where they join a cult that worships something like "the life mother" as embodied in a head of cabbage. Pretty classic. It's sad that there aren't shows like that and Good Times on any more. I did a google search and the first hit I got was . Go figure! It didn't help that I spelled Rerun wrong... Here's someone else discussing it . I'm not mentioning this to comment one way or another on paganism, new religion, or any other controversial subject. It was just interesting to me how these random threads connected. Please don't try and peel this onion cabbage.ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:43, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I did not mean creating a new article Bacon in popular culture, though that might be fun at some point, but I was rather referring to possibly simply improving other side articles within that general sphere. Fictional books, movies, television shows, directly having to do with bacon, etc. Thoughts? Cirt (talk) 22:43, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I was trying to address the idea of a popular culture section in the bacon template. Sorry if I got a bit far afield. I suffer from ADDHD&D ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:51, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I meant that if enough articles were improved, such a section could be warranted, and if not, not. :P Cirt (talk) 23:32, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I meant to tell you that I enjoyed you BC2010 interview. That's a neat feature that "The Legendary" Sky Attacker developed. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:39, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, thank you! Yes, I have got to get going on creating that new Freedom of speech-related article I wanted to start, so I can get back to bacon articles! :P Cirt (talk) 23:42, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

RE:Doughnuts
I'm not an expert in this field, but my ma' always knew how to make those. Here's a pic of Fritule: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Fritule(miske).JPG You basically mix together 2 eggs, 2 cups of flour, some sugar, a cup of youghurt, vanilin sugar, citrus peel and cut apples. YOu can also add some rum. Then just round them and fry in deep oil until they're golden. Sprinkle with sugar afterwards. They're really simple to make and are delicious. Istarski cukarini are basically regular tea biscuits, but are round and you dip them in rakia and after that, sugar. I don't really know what these other things are, sorry. Want me to edit the stubs on these topics? Hope I helped!

Vitkogames (talk) 17:43, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Personnalité politiques, crimes, and passion
I just realized that this comment I left is apparently in an archived thread on ANI so you might not see it, but it was a direct reply to a question you were asking and not getting an answer to so I just wanted to draw your attention to it. --Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 19:12, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the thoughtful and detailed response. I find it a lot more pleasant to discuss article issues and content than to constantly have to deal with the smears and innuendo. You got into the latter a little bit, but I know it's sometimes hard to exercise restraint on that front.
 * I don't see anything in the Craig scandal article that can't be covered in the main article. He was arrested and charged with soliciting gay sex in a public bathroom. He pleaded guilty. Other allegations were made about similar behaviors. He said he would resign. He changed his mind. He tried to revoke his plea and was unsuccessful.
 * Paragraphs like "At 1216 hours, Craig tapped his right foot. I recognized this as a signal used by persons wishing to engage in lewd conduct. Craig tapped his toes several times and moves his foot closer to my foot. ... The presence of others did not seem to deter Craig as he moved his right foot so that it touched the side of my left foot which was within my stall area. Craig then proceeded to swipe his left hand under the stall divider several times, with the palm of his hand facing upward.[2]" Seem utterly ridiculous to me.
 * To compare Ted Kennedy's manslaughter followed by his fleeing the scene to a conviction for down low action seems absurd. That there are articles on other scandals doesn't answer the issue of how salacious details are included for some subjects, but not for others. Nor does it address how they the content that does exist is written, weighted, how those subjects are linked, and what kind of content is included.
 * I'm no Larry Craig fan, and like Grundle I tend to favor inclusion when in doubt (he supports keeping the Craig article) but the point is that lots of subjects that have been reliably covered and discussed aren't included anywhere, let alone with independent articles going into great detail. So if people want to keep that article it's fine with me, it could still use some clean up, but your failure to recognize the double standards and hypocrisy doesn't impress me much.
 * A politician's connections and involvement with a convicted felon have also been covered extensively. Relations to a preacher of hate have been well documented. How are those issues covered and included? None are so blind as those who refuse to see. And those issues when they occur with politicians are public concerns directly relevant to notability and political influence, not salacious personal impropriety being used to flog someone who isn't popular among the liberal media and leftist radicals like yourself. Stop the censorship, the bullying, the abuse and distortion of policies and let's start improving the encyclopedia together. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:25, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll ignore the stuff at the end and respond just on content. I don't want you to fall afoul your (nearly expired) restrictions so probably you should not reply directly to this first bit that I say, but I would point out in response to your allusions above that we have an entire article on the Jeremiah Wright controversy and that it is mentioned in the Barack Obama article along with a link to the main article on the controversy (I'm really not sure what more would be needed in terms of adding info to the bio&mdash;it mainly came in the context of the Democratic primary and is discussed there, though I would argue it should probably also be talked about briefly in this article, which it currently is not). Likewise Tony Rezko and his connections to Obama are mentioned in Barack Obama, and they are covered extensively here. We could probably have a whole article about those connections and I doubt I would object to it (though I'd say it's of minor importance, the lack of such an article is hardly a major lacuna in Wikipedia), and there might be a way to better word the current mention in the main bio article on Obama. You might not even remember or know this, but I've never objected to discussing these issues in the main Obama article, so you're sort of talking to the wrong person here. Again though, you should probably wait a week before responding directly to this point!


 * Beyond that, you don't offer any examples of "double standards and hypocrisy," so I cannot really respond. I certainly agree that what Teddy Kennedy did in 1972 was vastly worse (and more notable) than what Larry Craig did in the Minneapolis airport (I don't think the police should even waste time going after that kind of behavior), my point was just that a number of scandals involving Democrats/liberals have been covered (also there are not splitoff articles for every GOP Senate scandal&mdash;I see no full article discussing this, for example). Again, I genuinely do not see what the double standard is, and you are not providing any specifics, rather you just mention that there is some kind of censoring going on without offering any evidence at all.


 * There definitely are changes that could be made to the Larry Craig scandal article to improve it (maybe the language from the police report does not need to be there, although it is from the police report and does describe exactly what happened, which is fairly relevant), but the fact that an article needs work obviously does not mean that the topic is not worthy of encyclopedic coverage. Speaking from the perspective of someone who does history, I think the article fails to discuss the most interesting aspects of the scandal, which have basically nothing to do with Craig as an individual. Somewhat like the Mark Foley scandal, the issue with Craig led to a wide-ranging discussion/debate about a host of issues relevant to sexuality and American politics in the early 21st century: the pressure felt by public officials to remain "in the closet" (whether or not Craig actually is in the closet) despite increased acceptance of homosexuality in American society, down low culture and behavior, questions in the gay community about how to deal with/feel about closeted public officials who pursue policies felt to be anti-gay (cf. the so-called "Frank Rule}, and the attitudes of the American electorate (particularly cultural conservatives) toward homosexuality and the impact it has on their voting behavior, among others. Eventually there will probably be decent scholarship on reactions to the Craig incident and what that tells us about American culture and society circa 2007, and that's exactly the kind of stuff we would most want in an encyclopedia article. Obviously the Craig scandal received a lot of coverage because it was titillating, but there were deeper, more interesting currents at work. --Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 22:19, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * How do you know I'm not alluding to John McCain, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and Frank Keating? Or Bill Clinton, Jesse Jackson, and Marc Rich? ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:41, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Please spare me the transparently absurd coyness C of M. You and I both know damn well who and what you are talking about when you say "A politician's connections and involvement with a convicted felon have also been covered extensively. Relations to a preacher of hate have been well documented. How are those issues covered and included?" Months ago you brought the issue up repeatedly with respect to the sitting American president, whereas I'd bet a good amount of money you can't cite one diff in all your time here where you ever complained that this wasn't up to snuff, or that it was not sufficiently mentioned here. I took the time to try to address the issue you were raising with those three sentences, just as I took the time to try to address the concern you mentioned on ANI. You say you just want to talk about content, but when I make an effort to actually do that with you all I get in reply is the howler of a comment you dropped just now and nothing whatsoever of substance. I spent a decent amount of time typing up the above responses in an effort to discuss the issues you claimed to want to discuss (if you're so concerned about the Larry Craig, why are you ignoring the two paragraphs I just wrote regarding that?), but I guess I was a sucker to even bother trying.


 * Now, I beg you, please don't waste either your time or mine by again trying to claim your comment was somehow about our lack of encyclopedic coverage of Bill Clinton's "relations" with Jesse Jackson. If you actually want to reply to the substance of what I wrote above then by all means do so. I take issue with some of the things you do around here, but I'm fairly certain it's beneath you to blatantly misrepresent what you said after the fact, so I'll assume your previous comment was the ill-advised product of a fit of pique or general silliness and something that in hindsight you'd rather retract. --Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 01:33, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The point is that I posted generally about issues that could apply to various politicians. It's called a hypothetical that I made general for good reason. Yes it could certainly be a reference to the current president, just as it could refer to other politicians. If you take offense at my pointing that out that's your problem. But please save me your self righteous bullshit. You've been a party to clear Arbcom violations on your talkpage, you've been one of the most aggressive intimidators and bullies going after editors who don't share your editing interest and far left political perspectives, and you haven't made any effort to edit collegially and cooperatively with me. As you well know I can't discuss certain topics, in part because of your failure to be helpful and unbiased in mediating disputes between myself (a good faith editor seeking accurate well balanced articles) and the POV pushing trolls camped out on various articles. So don't come here with your snide attacks and arrogance. I'm not interested in your dishonest claims, the record speaks for itself. If you're going to come here with a bunch of coy baiting, innuendo and attacks don't waste my time. You've never expressed any interest in dicussing article content and refused to help me with content I tried to have addressed. Don't be a phoney on my talk page like I'm stupid. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:51, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

YouTube celebrity
Didn't it have it's own page at one time? Or was it a generic name?--kelapstick (talk) 21:59, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * YouTube fame? Are you planning something? Does it involve bacon? ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:34, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That's what it was! I knew I remembered something.  No I'm not planning anything, I don't have time to write articles, and yet have created two in the last few days (so little time that I asked Bongo to hook up The Sunless City)....argh, darn you Wikipedia!--kelapstick (talk) 23:34, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I saw you were really digging into some mining articles. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:40, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Not so much lately, but I did create Nanisivik Naval Facility, which is tangently mining related. I've stood where they are going to put it, but the water was frozen...--kelapstick (talk) 23:46, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought Doc was the Russian spy... Hmmmm... ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:55, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Alert.
The Great Wikipedia Dramaout/2nd--Sky Attacker   the legend reborn...  01:53, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I saw that Sky, looks good. I hope they weed out the silly objections this time. No one is compelled to participate. I don't know if you saw, but I mentioned to Cirt that I enjoyed reading the interview you put up. Thanks for doing that. Of course I don't want to be interviewed myself. But I nominate Doc, and SpinningSpark (do I have that right?) who have been doing some great work in that subject area. :) In fact, they're discussing some sort of Iphone bacon cooking application that they found. Seems a little sick to me. :) I'm more into the "Double Down" that is supposedly on offer at some KFC restaurants. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:58, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * We'll wait and see how this week goes and I'll make a decision on who to interview. It will probably be Drmies though, considering that he's currently 4th (I've already interviwed the leading 2, and 3rd is myself, unless you wanted to interview me or something). By Cirt's suggestion I have tried to get the Bacon WikiCup recognized by the Wikipedia Signpost. Haven't had any response so far though.--Sky Attacker   the legend reborn...  02:08, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * If you look further up on that talk page you'll see I posted there also. I got a laugh. So that was satisfying. I think there may be a reluctance to cover something lighthearted like the BC2010, but we'll see. How is the Baconator article coming? Last I checked it needed reliable sources... ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:12, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Since my last edit to it, I've paid probably no attention to it at all. I might go back to it later to make it better. By the way, the Bacon Deluxe is actually different to the baconater.--Sky Attacker   the legend reborn...  02:18, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

The Great Wikipedia Dramaout
Hi! As you have expressed an interest in the initial The Great Wikipedia Dramaout, you're being notified because we are currently planning another one in January! We hope to have an even greater level of participation this time around, and we need your help. If you're still interested please sign up now at The Great Wikipedia Dramaout/2nd. Thanks, and Happy Holidays! JCbot (talk) 04:28, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of Ambrose J. Russell
I have nominated Ambrose J. Russell, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/Ambrose J. Russell. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Groundsquirrel13 (talk) 23:23, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * NOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooo... Really? Why do people keep trying to delete these architects? Every Southpark episode, but no somewhat well known builders? What would Ayn Rand say? ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:36, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * She would have shrugged. But you've got to admit, architects aren't as notable as Pokemon characters. - Spaceman  Spiff  23:46, 14 December 2009 (UTC)


 * They aren't trying to delete the architect, they are trying to delete the article!--kelapstick (talk) 23:49, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Tell it to Vladimír Clementis (see also Book of Laughter and Forgetting and Politics of memory. ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:58, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You like Kundera?? - Spaceman  Spiff  01:31, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The two question marks are throwing me off. Do you not like Kundera??? I like the story where all that's left of a politician is his hat after a photo has been altered. His other work is okay, but a bit romantic and light weight (get it... light weight...?) for me. Have you read his work? It's been a while for me. I also enjoyed some of Tom Robbins. But my favs are Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Salman Rushdie and Joseph Conrad. ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:52, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not a big fan of Kundera, the only reason I read Book of Laughter and Forgetting and The Unbearable Lightness of Being is because the girl was really cute, and I had to speed read before the next date! I figured the Rushdie part, I do enjoy his works. Been putting off reading Marquez though. - Spaceman  Spiff  04:58, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Speaking of banana republics, I think historical fiction can be truer in many ways than historical writings. :) Who do you read Spiff? ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:04, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Of late, I've given Indian authors an undue share of my reading list. I've pretty much completed Rushdie and Narayan, and have been avoiding Nirad C. Chaudhuri, but been low on Mulk Raj Anand and Anita Desai so read a few of theirs. Finally managed to complete Alexander McCall Smith and most of Bill Bryson. Just starting on The Woman Who Walked into Doors now, given my reading history this year, I expect this to be a bit "heavy". But I agree with you on historical fiction, did you read Recalcitrance? ;) I loved The Motorcycle Diaries, although it isn't exactly historical fiction. - Spaceman  Spiff  05:36, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Naipaul has some interesting stuff. Maybe a bit erudite though? Pramoedya Ananta Toer is Indonesia's Rushdie. I'll have to check out the walking into doors thing. I'm not familiar with Chaudhuri. And for some reason I get Narayan and Anand confused. But since helping with your article, I know Narayan is the one who tells parable type fables about a fictional town. What does Anand write about? ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:52, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

<--I'm a bit low on Naipaul, only read two so far. Choudhary tends to be more of an apologetic Indian in his writings, sometimes it's a bit difficult to say if he's being sardonic or real; I've read The Autobiography of an Unknown Indian and A Passage to England, good prose, but not really captivating storytelling IMO, but critics generally disagree with me on this. Anand is a rich socialist, was required during his times in India. Coolie (book) and Untouchable (book) are both very powerful. I've added the OCLC to all the book stubs I've created so far, so you should be able to check if they're at your local library. I'd rather start with Narayan, very simple writing, although some of the prose might read a bit odd to an American, start with Malgudi Days (book) which happens to be Jhumpa Lahiri's favorite. cheers. - Spaceman  Spiff  06:40, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Where are the Wikipedia plot summaries (Cliff Notes) versions when I need them??? ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:31, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I generally dislike plot summaries, so you'll never find one on articles I create! - Spaceman  Spiff  18:47, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Working on/ To do
ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:51, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Mention a tidbit from in appropriate article, regarding Rhodes Mansion on J Street. (make sure it's the right one... sicne there is also Rhodesleigh. But that's in a different area I think, so it should be okay...
 * Add a link to these archival photos of Rhodesleigh
 * Redirect all the incarnations of Heath & Gove, and Heath, Gove & Bell etc. to a disambiguation page linking to the architects
 * Add some Lincoln High School (Tacoma) photographs to the relevant articles
 * Add section about Lincoln Bowl to Lincoln High School (Tacoma).
 * Add Frederick Heath (architect)
 * Frederick Heath (architect)
 * University of Washington building s Thomson Hall (144) and Communications Building (153)
 * Add new articles to list (including +article edit summary one...)
 * See also Russell, Lumm & Lance

Next up...
More "endangered" architecture and architectural history.
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:33, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Blue Mouse and John Hamrick, Portland Blue Mouse
 * John Porter Clark, ,

Points COI
Hey CoM. I've just created Template:Bacon-stub. I'm confident that this stub template would be useful for many articles here and is worthy of good points towards the Bacon WikiCup. The one issue though is an obvious COI involved with me being scorekeeper and awarding myself bonus points. It is only reasonable for the sake of ensuring no biases in the points, (as there are no pre-determined amount of points for these sorts of contributions) that I get an opinion from someone else to determine how many points it should be worth instead of self-awarding bonus points to myself. After giving User:Cirt 15 points for Template:Bacon, I feel that at least 8 points would be fitting, however, as I said, to keep the points neutral and unbiased, I request that someone else decide on a sensible point value for this contribution of mine. Cheers.--Sky Attacker   the legend reborn...  09:21, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅, Cheers, Cirt (talk) 12:39, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks Cirt.--Sky Attacker   the legend reborn...  20:45, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No worries, Cirt (talk) 20:45, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Sky, I love it. Drmies (talk) 20:48, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the delayed response. I'm up to my eyeballs in Tacoma architects. I still need to add these to a gallery for Paradise Inn. And Doc hasn't translated the captions for the Claus and Mies architectural firm's photos. I looked at the template page, but I couldn't see the template. Is there a page where it's being used? By all means take some of Drmies points. He's doing a poor job all around. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:32, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It is on all pages listed in, which is also a sub-category of .--Sky Attacker    the legend reborn...  21:36, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Have you run it by the folks at the stub sorting project (too lazy at the moment to hunt down the exact name)? They get a little territorial about the creation of new stub types. Apparently there's a pretty formal process for it (as I found out the hard way once myself). Lady  of  Shalott  22:05, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * There is no reason for it to be an issue. Apart from being an actually beneficial stub sorting category, it should also be a welcome sub-category to the already active meat stubs category. Honestly, if they could come up with a single half-decent agrument against the new stub category, then I'd just love to hear it.--Sky Attacker</b>   the legend reborn...  22:13, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

<--Sure, Sky, but they have to work with it. Make friends with 'em. They do an awful lot of sometimes tedious work, and they do it well, and don't get a lot of credit for it... Drmies (talk) 23:07, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay. I guess I should let them know.--<b style="font-family:Rockwell; color:blue;">Sky Attacker</b>   the legend reborn...  23:10, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * WikiProject Stub sorting/Discoveries looks to be the place to go since you already created it. (I'd explain that you didn't know they were supposed to be propsed first and that a busybody suggested you 'fess up. :) Lady  of  Shalott  02:29, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Should be fine now.--<b style="font-family:Rockwell; color:blue;">Sky Attacker</b>   the legend reborn...  04:21, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Note that in order to be eligible for DYK the article can not be classified as a stub...--kelapstick (talk) 21:25, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Grundle
I hope you realize that they're coming for you next. Expect the baiting to intensify. Please don't succumb. --William S. Saturn (talk) 21:20, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Grundle is a good editor, so hopefully he'll be back soon or is able to hop IPs and stay out of trouble. I noticed that Giano is also blocked, by an arb no less, so obviously it's open season on content contrubtors. But Tarc and Magnificentcleankeeper are free to do their thing. Go figure. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:44, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I see what you mean. Bigtimepeace is campaigning. It's just more of the same. ChildofMidnight (talk) 07:37, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Back to Bacon for just a minute
Child, I'm really new at DYK. Can you tell what this nice remark on my talk page from the DYK reviewer means? Is the hook too short or is the article too short? Cheers. Geoff <sup style="color:blue;">Who, me?  00:05, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Answered at User_talk:Glane23, did I mention I got a free shank ham today?--kelapstick (talk) 00:09, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Do I now write so opaquely that those who don't understand me have to defer to midnight's child for an explanation? More seriously, I'll try to be a bit more clear on this in the future. Ucucha 00:12, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No, No - the density is all mine. And all know that Child is the Font. Geoff  <sup style="color:blue;">Who, me?  00:17, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm less concerned about density than I am about critical mass. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:45, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Autoreviewer rights
Hi, ChildofMidnight. I've nominated you for autoreviewer rights because of the high volume of articles you've created on Wikipedia. An admin will evaluate the request here. Good luck! A Stop at Willoughby (talk) 07:14, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi ChildofMidnight, I understand that you've requested the removal of your autoreviewer rights previously, so I am hesitant to grant them again. You certainly qualify, and I'd be happy to grant them, but I don't want to force you to have rights you don't want.  Let me know,    A rbitrarily 0    ( talk ) 11:43, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestions. I like having people review the articles I write, that way they can share the blame when I mess up. Also, it gives me an opportunity to argue with people over changes I don't like and to be a part of the fun that is article AfDs minutes after a stub is created. If it's a benefit to Wikipedia for my creations not to be reviewed I'm willing to consider having things be autoreviewed. But I think the wonderful articles I create should receive as much attention as possible. If there aren't enough editors to do the job I suggest indefinitely blocking Drmies. His article creations aren't worthwhile. Cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:43, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well ChildofMidnight, I'll respect your judgment and decline the request. Whether or not it would be a benefit to Wikipedia is something that you'd know best I suppose, not me.  If you have a change of heart just let me know (or request here).  Happy holidays and best regards to you!    A rbitrarily 0    ( talk ) 04:24, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks to you Willoughby for the kind consideration. If there is some benefit to the encyclopedia from contributions being autoreviewed I'm willing to reconsider. But I fancy being a commoner. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:02, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Re:Fish soup
Hi, thanks for the improvement. The layout looks dandy, so I like that. As for Kazan and Tartar Russia, hmm...I'm at lost parsing the "did you know?" Is it some relevant to Tartar sauce since our discussion is largely based on food? :-) Caspian blue 14:29, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Silas E. Nelsen
In the article you started about Silas E. Nelsen it mention he was born in Stoten, Wisconsin. I check and there is no Stoten, Wisconsin. There is a Stoughton, Wisconsin in Dane County, Wisconsin. I am relunctant to change this because the artisle that was cited had Nelsen's birthplace as Stoten, Wisconsin. My guess Nelsen was born in Stoughton Wisconsin. Wold you please check this out? Thank you-RFD (talk) 14:52, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Probably it's Stooughton, but I can't find a source for it so I noted that it's likely a misspelling or we can leave out the city. If you're adept at solving mysteries, Ricky Dobbs recently set the single season QB rushing touchdown record with 24. He broke a tie with Tim Tebow and Chance Harridge... but until recently most of the sources on Harridge seem to suggest he had 22, one shy of Tebow's 23. But a source he had 23 and that seems to have been echoed in syndication and copied in later stories. Maybe it's not a big deal, but seems weird. Thanks for your help. Happy Holidays.ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:10, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Comment
CoM, I think it's best if you do not involve yourself in the current discussion about Grundle. Everybody is aware of your opinions, repeating them is unnecessary, and will only poison the well against Grundle, who has made good-faith gestures in hope of returning.  Grsz 11  18:54, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with you but Tarc continues to troll and try to smear me. If people bring me up (and you'll note I was never given any notice) then I certainly need to defend myself. Clearly some of the more abusive individuals on Wikipedia are coming after me because of the restrictions about to be lifted. It's pretty disgusting and outrageous. Cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:16, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * And now Grundle2600 is unblocked.--<b style="font-family:Rockwell; color:blue;">Sky Attacker</b>   the legend reborn...  00:25, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi everyone! Grundle2600 (talk) 01:28, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * By the way, CoM, I don't know how much you are into Chocolate but Ferrero Rocher is definitley worthwhile.--<b style="font-family:Rockwell; color:blue;">Sky Attacker</b>   the legend reborn...  02:58, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Disruption by Bigtimepeace
This admin has been coming after me and other editors who he disagrees with for a long time. He's bragged about his far left political views and made it a point to go after those who are trying to uphold our core neutral point of view policy. He's also been a party to clear Arbcom violations on his talk page. His efforts to go after those he doesn't like shouldn't be encouraged, and he should refrain from any further disruptive activities. His violations of the spirit of the civility policy and his threats are unacceptable. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:47, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Photos
I've been known to take requests for photos. Certainly if I happen to go to the place I'll take the photo, but there's limits to how much I'll go out of my way to fulfill someone else's desires. Drop a message on my talk page if there's something in particular you have in mind. - Jmabel | Talk 03:42, 19 December 2009 (UTC) I live in Seattle. I do a lot of different photography, but, yes, I do a lot of buildings. Probably 80-90% of the present-day architectural photos of Seattle on Commons are mine, as are perhaps half of the other present-day photos of the city. - Jmabel | Talk 05:14, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Urban Grace Church
Is it still Baptist? Is it affiliated with any particular larger organization (such as the Southern Baptist Convention)? Lady of  Shalott  06:18, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * "We honor many Christian traditions and thus our services can be eclectic." I don't think they are Baptist any more. I wonder why the shift? Perhaps the Baptists moved outside to the burbs? I'm not up on religious demographics, but it's an interesting subject regarding which sects are growing, which ones are declining, and the influences (immigration, conversion, birth rate etc.). I hope all is well with you LoS and you're enjoying yourself. ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:58, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Frederick Heath (architect)
Thanks for the copy-edits at Frederick Heath (architect). ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:17, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. BTW, I've nominated this new article for DYK. Pls feel free to post your preferred hook here. Happy editing. Cheers! --PFHLai (talk) 18:59, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * My pleasure! Keep up the good work. Cheers! --PFHLai (talk) 19:21, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Re:Projects
No problem at all; just helping out. ;) Regards. Cs-wolves  (talk)  00:00, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Cheley
Hey, I just created an article on Cheley Camp in Colorado. I talked to User:SpacemanSpiff, and he gave me some advice and told me to talk to you, so do you have any advice?

Thanks a lot, HaiyaTheWin (talk) 01:59, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Naples Grape Festival
I created a stub for the Naples Grape Festival. You may want to expand it. - Eastmain (talk) 05:00, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Cool! I'll have a look when I get a chance. I like those regional traditions and festivals. It's a good tie-in with grape pie. A lot of berries up that way also as I recall. Harvest season, spring and summer are nice, but winter is kind of a bear up there by the lakes... :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:33, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Re:Interview
If you want to, I suppose. I'm going to interview our new leader User:Spinningspark who has picked up 61 points, a lot of them from the last 24 hours alone. I'm currently working on creating new articles/stubs such as Robbers Bridge at the moment, to take a break form Bacon content.--<b style="font-family:Rockwell; color:blue;">Sky Attacker</b>   the legend reborn...  06:03, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Happy Holidays to you and yours CoM. Turqoise127 (talk) 17:55, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Requests for comment/ChildofMidnight
As mentioned to you previously, a request for comment regarding some issues with your editing was drafted and has now been moved into project space. Obviously you are encouraged to comment there and offer your view of the situation described in the RfC. --Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 18:08, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Accounts and assessments of George W. Bush's life and work


The article Accounts and assessments of George W. Bush's life and work has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * <b>Unencyclopedic

Unsourced Original research</b>

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing  will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Eeekster (talk) 23:21, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi CoM, I have to agree that the article as it is is a stub with so little information as to be totally unusable. I would think that the list of books about GWB could be renamed and re-purposed to include journal articles or other accounts / critiques of his life and works.
 * Don't all articles (most articles?) start out that way? I'm okay with it being prodded so we can see how it develops. Happy Holidays. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:31, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Not really&mdash;the title of the article suggests that it will enumerate at least some of the "accounts and assessments", but it includes literally zero of them. On the other hand, if it is intended to be an article recapitulating the various competing opinions, then would appear to be mistitled (and still contains so little content as to obscure its subject). <sup style="color:green;">Bongo  <sub style="margin-left:-4.2ex; color:blue;">matic  02:44, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm counting on you to expand the article with notable and well cited content. Take your time, the prod gives you several days. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:36, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Oriental Theatre? Really?
What interests led you to creating this article? No complaints, just really curious. tedder (talk) 01:10, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Note
I've sent you an email. — Ched : ?  14:36, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Bacon WikiCup 2010
I don't know what will happen to the bacon wikicup but you are free to do with it however you desire.--<b style="font-family:Rockwell; color:blue;">Sky Attacker</b>   the legend reborn...  20:04, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Unless you would like to, Midnight, I am willing to take over score keeping until Sky comes back (if he does, which I assume he will since his account just seems to have been compromised). Thanks, ~<i style="color:#07517C;">Super</i> Hamster  Talk Contribs 00:48, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Notification: Proposed 'Motion to Close' at Wikipedia:Community de-adminship/Draft RfC
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Community de-adminship/Draft RfC re: a 'Motion to close', which would dissolve Cda as a proposal. The motion includes an !vote. You have previously commented at WikiProject Administrator. Jusdafax 20:50, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 21 December 2009
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">Read this Signpost in full &middot; Single-page &middot; Unsubscribe &middot; EdwardsBot (talk) 02:42, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

John Hamrick & Blue Mouse Theater for DYK
If they meet the criteria a DYK on John Hamrick would be great. If not, no worries. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:54, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean this, ChildofMidnight? Already done. May I suggest expanding Blue Mouse Theater a little more (need a 5-fold increase) to make a double-DYK hook? --PFHLai (talk) 00:53, 21 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Cool. That looks good. I'd prefer something more specific to the theater business than the more general businessman, but I can't think of better terminology. :) Thanks again. I'm struggling a big with the Blue Mouse because the one remaining open is kind of notable, but there were other much larger ones in the past with the same Blue Mouse name but in other places. It's kind of a bit messy and confusing. Let me know if you have any suggestions. And thanks again for your insterest and assistance. I appreciate it. ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:28, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm glad that I could help. May I ask that the spelling of "theatre/theater" be double-checked for the article and the DYK hook, please?  I'm not sure when the British spelling should be used.  I thought this is an American theater.
 * BTW, the Blue Mouse article is only ~200 characters short of being long enough to qualify for DYK. If you want to go for double-DYK hook with the Hamrick article, you might want to add a couple of sentences, plus refs, to mention the fact that the Proctor one is the only one of Hamrick's chain of Blue Mice that is still standing and operating, etc.  Just a thought.  Happy editing.  Cheers! -PFHLai (talk) 05:38, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

They seem to have used the Theatre spelling in those days pretty consistently and it seems to be a tradition that is continuing for the old tyme theatres. I never understood the advantage of double hooks, but I changed the Blue Mouse article to be about all the theatres that went by that name so it should be no problem to make it long enough. What else is cooking? :) Now I'm up to my eyeballs in other obscure American architects. Lee Arden Thomas is getting interesting and he worked in Bend with Hugh Thompson (architect) . But their projects that are on the NRHP don't have articles or photos yet. So the matrix is pretty weak at this point. Thanks again for your help. Much appreciated. Party on. Tedder and Katr were helping on a couple other articles which is nice of them. ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:47, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, ChildofMidnight, I just want to be sure it's correct in the article. Thanks.  Bunching DYKs together means we don't have to come up with so many different hooks.  And there's less waiting.  Please be encouraged to nom the architect biographies. (I might do it if I can come up with a hook.)  Happy typing. :-)  --PFHLai (talk) 06:01, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

How are the hooks for Blue Mouse Theatre and Paul Thiry (architect) coming? :) The second one needs a little expansion I know, but I found a couple pics, and you know what they say... ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:59, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * ChildofMidnight, please see T:TDYK and T:TDYK. I hope you approve of these hooks. --PFHLai (talk) 04:14, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Holiday musical noise
Random question ... Do you know any native German speakers? .. I'm curious what they think of the song (words/rhyme) by Christina Stürmer who had the great idea to mix American Wild West with German yielding perfection (to my German-free ears): Augenblick am Tag. No reply necessary if you don't, but in any case hope your holidays are going beautifully. (Note: My one CoM story &mdash; the one where someone was saved while they slept &mdash; brought a tear of beauty to my eye while I was fixing breakfast today. That's why you got that barnstar from me.) Cheers. Proofreader77 (talk) 05:22, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You have to wonder about a language where "Ich leibe dich" means I love you. I think Doc speaks some German, though if his English is any indication you should take it with a grain of salt. Google translate seems to do pretty well for the general stuff. Sandstein is, I believe, a native German speaker or pretty close. He's Swiss so he probably speaks French also, but I think he speaks German. Maybe not. Hmmm... there's a listing page of translators somewhere you can try also. I'll have to take a closer look at the links in the a.m. Cheerios my friend. Stay warm. ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:50, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Many thanks, 6.7 :-) Proofreader77 (talk)
 * User:SebastianHelm is a native German speaker. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:38, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, again. (Note: Need to find a German speaker who is a connoisseur of German language country western songs. lol) OH ... Did you give the song listen? I love it. Can't understand a word. Sometimes that's a good thing. :-) Proofreader77 (talk) 10:12, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Merry Xmas

 * Happy Xmas CoM, best wishes to you and yours for 2010. Off2riorob (talk) 21:50, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much Offrriorob. Ho Ho Ho, Happy New Year!!! ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:59, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Paul Thiry (architect)
FYI. Happy Holidays. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:45, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks! And you even picked my favorite building of his for the lead photo. - Jmabel | Talk 23:27, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know the Barrett house. Do you know an address?
 * The basic external structure of the KeyArena is left from his Coliseum (for the '62 World's Fair). MOHAI is pretty altered, as is the Frye. I believe the Washington State Library in Olympia is more or less intact.
 * If you can identify anything in particular that needs a photo and is within, say, an hour of Seattle, I'll certainly get to it some time, but possibly not until spring. - Jmabel | Talk 01:47, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Opinion sought
Opinion sought about User:MichaelQSchmidt/sandbox/Kevin Rockett. I believe even at this stage the subject meets Notability (academics). I am ready to turn it loose and let others join in on the fun. What'cha think?  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 00:38, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Merry Christmas
<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:blue; background-color:AliceBlue; border-width:1px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">

A NobodyMy talk is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Don't eat yellow snow!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding to their talk page with a friendly message. To those who make Good Arguments, who are appreciative, or supportive. Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 03:44, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Merry Christmas Tree Worm!!!


Merry Christmas Tree Worm!!! Grundle2600 (talk) 05:10, 24 December 2009 (UTC)


 * First of all: Merry Christmas! Second: That is the coolest-looking thing I have ever seen!! GJC 09:53, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Talkback
-HaiyaTheWin IS The Win! 17:59, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Season's greetings
Merry Christmas, Child! I hope Santa fills up your stocking completely. I almost got you an AL-TX championship game T-shirt, but I'm sure you already have one. Take it easy! Drmies (talk) 18:01, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks
I appreciate your help on Popcorn Sutton. I like that little article (reviving it after deletion is something of which I'm very proud), but I've let non-article stuff distract me. Whatever our differences (and they are many), I appreciate your help. Merry Christmas, U  A  02:10, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!!
<div style="; float: left; margin-top: 3px; background-color: gold; padding: 10px; width: 98%; clear: both;"> <div style="; border: 5px solid mediumblue; background-color: darkred; text-align: center; padding: 18px;" class="plainlinks" valign="top" width: 100%;> <div class="NavHead" style="background: mediumspringgreen; ;">

 Set Sail  For The   Seven Seas    36° 25' 15" NET    02:25, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Oriental Theater, Portland
Can I count on your help with a GA → FA drive? Durova 386 20:16, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No Comprendo


 * (Whatever reason the picture is here ... I'm delighted. It inspired me to find a picture of the Globe theater for my userpage.) Proofreader77 (interact)  05:45, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

User_talk:Durova/Archive_75 Durova  386 16:50, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Merry Christmas from my semi-retired self
Just checking in, and it's good to see that all is well with you. You are still making waves and getting in the face of covert POV pushers, especially mop-wielding covert POV pushers (and I'm one of the few that see that as a good thing). I'm actually glad to see that you have dropped your bids for adminship. As I pointed out before, adminship is one of the worst things I would ever wish on anyone. Keep doing what you're doing :) Trusilver  07:21, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Circular reference
Can you reply at Talk:Circular reference please.  Sp in ni ng  Spark  20:51, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I've offered some well-thought-out and insightful conclusions there per your request. You're welcome! ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:55, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Bacon Apple Tarte
I almost ordered one yesterday at this new green organic foodie place on the edge of the campus in Berkeley Gather. The presence of the "e" on the end of tarte and the lack of bread - in France we move the fork to the right hand and shovel using bread with the left hand - made me reconsider at the last moment. The bacon was of course house-cured. Here it is on the menu with cinnamon ice cream. I think this might be one of the new places sprouting up in the USA where people can practice eating creative food in preparation for crashing culinary events in the White House. But what would they do if offered snails eggs, the latest delicacy in France? They apparently taste of soggy paper. Mathsci (talk) 14:16, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * When it comes to slow food, I prefer pork shoulder sandwiches with a mayo-free slaw. It's an interseting menu. A bit high falutin perhaps, and the burger doesn't seem to come with fries or chips? But at least there was no foam or coulis on the menu. Menus with ingredients from artisanal producers are pretty big now. The coding seemed complex to me, but I guess I'm a spoiled omnivore. Also I'm skeptical of the claims that shipping that stuff all over the place is sustainable. And their idea of affordable is different than mine :), but I'm known to shop at Walmart now and again. High efficiency distribution systems and mass produced wares are very sustainable and environmentally friendly after all. Or are they not?


 * What did you have? How was it? I had some good Italian for Christmas dinner, after not having it for a long time. It was pretty good. Nothing beats warm fresh baked bread and butter I tell you... I also tried a fresh dragon fruit from an Asian store (the white inside kind). I prefer the dried pieces (red meat) they used to sell at Trader Joe's. sadly the persimmon crop out here got frozen so they're in short supply all of a sudden, and the cherimoya are a bit pricey. I indulged in some Louisiana fried chicken, though, that was absolutely fantastic, and I still have their gumbo in the fridge. So life is good. Are you stateside now? I got to go to Wolfgang Puck's restaurant up there in S.F. once, ( Il Pastaio Postrio) and it was pretty great. And I like the Google cafeteria's buffet offerings. It's amazing that their workers get anything done after those lunches.


 * I was just reading about the skyskraper they had been planning up in S.F., but then I think it got downsized? I'm less familiar with the Berkeley area. The hypocrisy of elitist liberalism (Kennedyism) seems preposterous to me. At least Stanford has Condi Rice to keep them on their toes. Have fun. It's good to hear from you again. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:15, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * This was Boxing Day food. Just a wholesome bowl of winter vegetable soup, a bit on the small side, a pizza of the day - with home cured pork (thin slithers, a bit bacony), a very exotic cheese from a local goat, possibly with a sprinkling of nettle leaves - and a locally brewed amber ale. I see that I have become a locavore - so very, very Bay Area. Lucky I brought over from France the foie gras with its confit d'onions and confiture de figue. Oh yes, and the pâte de coing, calissons, biscotins and vin cuit, from the thirteen desserts. Mathsci (talk) 14:24, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * A place in Beverly Hills does a terrific prosciutto and arugula pizza. Cooked ham is a bit hammy for me, especially on good pizza. There's a brick oven NY style place that's been running a special nearby. As far as goat cheese I'm a big fan of humboldt fog. If you find a Trader Joe's they have some good stuff, even French pastry desserts. The thirteen desserts tradition is quite interesting. Are they left out for three days and then eaten? Or refilled? Cut apples would brown, so I assume they leave them whole? ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:14, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * If you get a chance try some raw food meals. Quite interesting. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:21, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * So you didn't try the bacon apple tarte? I'm intrigued by the cooked apple and bacon combo. It seems like they would go well together and theleftorium's Æbleflæsk seems particularly tasty (though rich). This preparation Brændende kærlighed is pretty cool too, but no apples I don't think. I wonder why we haven't seen more apple/bacon combos here, but I think the supermarkets killed our love for apples with the strange glossy giant mutant apples they've been selling in recent decades. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:32, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

If you're a soccer fan
you would love this clip from Harry & Paul. :-) --Caspian blue 00:10, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I was just thinking about you because I wanted to tell you about today's LA Times story about the Cia-Cia of Indonesia adopting the Korean Hangul alphabet. I'm not sure what the significance is, but it seems interesting. ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:54, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I read the news some time ago. That's an interesting news for sure. On the other hand, language barriers can be a comedy subject like the clip. The football manager can survive wherever he goes for the language ability. :-) --Caspian blue 14:14, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That's a good clip. I like that they captured not just the language but the tonal and expressive differences in expression. Happy New Year. Is the Korean New Year also on January 1st? I think so. Chinese New Year is later I believe? ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:20, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Happy New Year to you too! Hm..the January 1st is a public holiday in South Korea, but Korean New Year follows Lunar calendar, so its date is same as Chinese one.--Caspian blue 17:25, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

No hard fellings?
Hey. I noticed that you and I got pretty mad at each other several times during the ANI about you being banned from the page. I just wanted to extend my hand out as a sign that I'm sorry. Thanks!-- Coldplay Expért <sup style="color:#DC143C;">Let's talk  01:03, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't have any hard feelings C.E. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. So don't fret. Are you working on any interesting articles? Other endeavors? It seems like ANI is heating back up now that the holidays are over. I'm trying not to look. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:19, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the ANI is heating back up. (Im only participateing in the non-drama like sections) As for articles, well Yes. I am finishing up my nomination for the World War II article to become a GA. And im still helping out in the DYK.-- Coldplay Expért <sup style="color:#DC143C;">Let's talk  01:31, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That's a great article to fix up. I took a look and have a couple of quibbles. I don't agree with the "their entire economic, industrial, and scientific capabilities at the service of the war effort, erasing the distinction between civilian and military resources" statement or that all capabilities were used. A lot of civilian manufacturing was converted to aid the war effort, but I don't think it's accurate to say the distinction was erased or that all of it was. Also, were 70 million people killed or did they die? Many died from starvation and disease I think, so I think the killed statement may overstate the case, even if there is a causal relationship with the war, since it's not direct. I also think something about national socialism, Nazism, and totalitarian states should be noted in the opening paragraphs. After all it was the war of ideologies was a big part fot he conflict. And I think it was a war for natural resources and political control. Some mention upfront of the causes and conditions leading to war might also be helpful, and a distinction between the Atlantic and Pacific front might be useful (and provide a geographical focus for the content). The context also needs to be given more as the fighting was mostly between alliances of imperial powers and their client or colonial states. I'm not sure about the "global" war statements either. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:43, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Almost all of these concerns have been talked about at the talk page but to no consensus. Thanks for helping out though!-- Coldplay Expért <sup style="color:#DC143C;">Let's talk  17:30, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Weatherly Building

 * Cool. Thank MaterialScientist. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:44, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

inre Hunter Ellis
I performed some cleanup and sourcing to the article, opined at the AFD , and then politely requested the nom consider a withdrawal. Though discussion is always welcome, due to the controversy over the earlier mass nomination, I can see no need for any continued drama on such an obvious keeper.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 21:56, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Whatever pleases you MQS. I think it's a keeper regardless, so I wouldn't sweat it. How have you been? ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:36, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

List of Disney princes
You must be a fan of disney princes to want a list like that on Wikipedia. Just my 2 cents.--NiceHotShower (talk) 22:31, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I suppose it could be broadened out to a list of notable fictional princes, and I prefer generic articles on subjects to list aerticles (although the lists can be useful), but those are content issues for discussion. The article seems sort of okay to me, I'm not really sure on it. I'm more a fan of princesses. Architecture in Star Wars on the other hand, is very notable. Cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:34, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You could be the little prince/princess of midnight.--NiceHotShower (talk) 22:39, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately there are an awful lot of wicked witches running around here trying to ruin my parties. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:41, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Frederick Heath (architect)

 * Thanks very much. I appreciate you and PHLchai's (sp?) assistance with the hook and all. Cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:56, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You're welcome, ChildofMidnight. Keep the nice articles coming, eh! :-)  Happy typing. --PFHLai (talk) 19:21, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Good edits
. Much better, well done.--BozMo talk 16:26, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks BozMo! I try. :) The last section of that article could be fixed up a bit. The quotations need to be attributed. And it's a bit newspapery in the way it recounts events, but I think I'm going to rest on my laurels. Happy New Year. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:44, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Working on/ To do
ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:51, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Mention a tidbit from in appropriate article, regarding Rhodes Mansion on J Street. (make sure it's the right one... sicne there is also Rhodesleigh. But that's in a different area I think, so it should be okay...
 * Add a link to these archival photos of Rhodesleigh
 * Redirect all the incarnations of Heath & Gove, and Heath, Gove & Bell etc. to a disambiguation page linking to the architects
 * Add some Lincoln High School (Tacoma) photographs to the relevant articles
 * Add section about Lincoln Bowl to Lincoln High School (Tacoma).
 * Add Frederick Heath (architect)
 * Frederick Heath (architect)
 * University of Washington building s Thomson Hall (144) and Communications Building (153)
 * Add new articles to list (including +article edit summary one...)
 * See also Russell, Lumm & Lance

More "endangered" architecture and architectural history.
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:33, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Blue Mouse and John Hamrick, Portland Blue Mouse
 * John Porter Clark, ,

McMann House, Bend (1916) says he is architect from Portland.
 * "Perhaps the most notable architects are Lee A. Thomas and Hugh Thompson" Thomas: Lew Franks Building, BAAC, St. Francis Catholic Church. Thompson designed the "demolished" Capitol Theater, New Redmond Hotel, old Bend High School, Butch Stover HOuse, 1927 addition to Pilot Butte Inn (is this copied from the other older source?) etc. already noted about O.C. Henkle Building (now Claypool Furniture), Kenwood School, Central Oregon Bank (now wells fargo) vandavert and whitington garage, now eddie's garage. Lists builders and designers...

ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:23, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Lee Arden Thomas, Thomas and Mercier, Thomas & Mercier (and Mercier?): Egyptian theater, more on Egyptian theater , mentioned , O.C. Henkle Building and restaurant going in , Central Oregon Bank Building (home to Frank Inabnit's People's Store, mentions St. CHarles HOspital and Church, not sure if these are the right ones. The garage opening announcement  Home of Bend Garage Co. corner of Wall and Greenwood , LIsting of historic buildings in Bend including Kenwood school etc.
 * some random copyrighted photos of a house
 * Albert Mercier?

The Wikipedia Signpost: 28 December 2009
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">Read this Signpost in full &middot; Single-page &middot; Unsubscribe &middot; EdwardsBot (talk) 02:02, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Munir Hussain
There is some discussion about deleting this person's entry. As far as his personal biography goes, although he is a successful businessman and a family man this is not unusual in itself. What is noteworthy about him is the armed home invasion he suffered and the toll he took on one of the intruders. Someone looking on Wikipedia for "Munir Hussain" is going to be looking for information about that event and its consequences, not that Munir was awarded some award, member of this or that, etc.

There are biographies on Wikipedia of people who have become important, and in those cases what school they went to may well be of interest (David Cameron went to Eton College I see), but many people only have their 15 minutes of fame - although I bet Munir wishes it hadn't happened to him. These people are sometimes mentioned in passing in other articles, but in this case it would be difficult to locate a suitable article? "UK home invasions" wouldn't really work?

The problem is that Munir Hussain's name has been associated with this particular event. So the article either has to be a biography of Munir Hussain, which would be of little interest to anyone except his family and I would see little point in keeping it in Wikipedia, or about the event - which is important and I think should be in Wikipedia. What do you think the article should be titled? Aarghdvaark (talk) 18:01, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * How about having an article on Home invasion in Britain discussing the case and the legal issues being discussed regarding victims of burglary, vigilantism and whatever other issues are involved? ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:41, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that would be more like a newspaper article about the state of the nation and the rights of citizens v. law-breakers, just bringing in such events as the home invasion to support a POV. But have a look at the recent case of Akmal Shaikh. I think that shows what I was talking about - there is only enough biography about Akmal to show the relevance of the issue of his state of mind to the court case. It doesn't get listed as an article "Barbaric Chinese Court Practices" or "Chinese executions of foreigners".


 * I agree about ages changing :) Aarghdvaark (talk) 09:40, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi CoM -I've moved this thread over to the delete discussion as it seems more open and relevant there. See you there Aarghdvaark (talk) 14:04, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Editing restrictions
I noticed you edited Barack Obama, have your editing restrictions been lifted? --William S. Saturn (talk) 22:15, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Some of them expired, which is why many of the abusive POV pushers are coming after me.
 * That article and the article talk page are a mess. It's very frustrating to see the level of incivility and abusive disruption that is allowed to go on there. Obviously the powers that be here are unwilling to do anything to put a stop to the abuse carried out by individuals like Tarc. Many in fact seem devoted to aiding and abetting the abusers in an effort to slant the encyclopedia's coverage according to their personal preference (in violation of our core policies).
 * I can't comment on a couple of the other worst offenders there because editing restrictions on interactions had to be put in place at my request to stop my being stalked and harassed. Violations of those restrictions continue, and some harassment still goes on unfortunately. For example on admin Bigtimepeace's talk page he's allowed repeated violations, despite my pointing them out to him repeatedly. He's also engaged in baiting and other improper behavior to come after me. He's long been colluding to aid those who share political opinions in using the encyclopedia for propaganda purposes. RD232 has engaged in some similar behaviors unfortunately.
 * Clearly it's not okay to go after editors they don't like in order to push their personal opinions on our political coverage, so it's troubling, but I don't see that I can do much about it.
 * It will be interesting to follow the Climategate arbcom dispute as some of the same abusive personalities are involved there, but I don't hold out much hope for improvement. Cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:25, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It's funny how Unitnode has become the talk page's current right-winger. I wouldn't have seen that coming a few months ago. --William S. Saturn (talk) 22:29, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I would like to see the discussion focused on article improvements and sourcing. The banter is unhelpful and the level of ownership by the most disruptive characters is damaging. But it doesn't seem worth investing much time in trying to fix things given the political environment here on Wikipedia. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:36, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I think some wise editors soon enough realize that these type of articles are just impossible to improve and the stress is not worth trying and it appears to ruin peoples reputation, so let them continue to enjoy the to-ing and fro-ing, the bacon is so much more rewarding and respectful. 22:45, 30 December 2009 (UTC)Off2riorob (talk)
 * That's true. But it's certainly an unfortunate circumstance that such a popular encyclopedia would be distorted by packs of POV pushers and their admin allies. C'est la vie I suppose? I remain optimistic that we can recruit admins who are willing to mediate appropriately and who are willing to uphold our policies fairly. But obviously there is a great deal of work to do towards accomplishing that, including weeding out the most abusive admins and reining in the most abusive editors. That's no easy task given the political structure that exists here. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:55, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well said, CoM. There are problematic admins and problematic editors- the trick is not alienate good editors and admins while dealing with them. WP:AGF can be the best thing and worst thing about being here. tedder (talk) 23:00, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Irrelevant subsection A
<---Sorry, tedder, but I think the trick is not to alienate me. Most of the POVabusepushers unmentioned by CoM above are, in fact, my socks. Bwuhahaha! Drmies (talk) 00:57, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That's true. If it wasn't for you, Tedder wouldn't be what it is today. tedder (talk) 00:59, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you jokers watching what Freddie Barnes is doing to the vaunted Vandal defense? They said Keyshawn was too slow also. C'mon man! Doc are you counting down to the humiliation of 'Bama Roll Tide nation?
 * Whoops, Idaho just tied it up. First catch of the day. OT, here we come. Doc I need you to post something nice about me at my RfC. Preferably with a picture of cute puppies or snuggly children or something. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:05, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow they're going for two. Seems like a mean move. Won't give Barnes a chance to get his fourth TD. And I don't think that Vandal caught that TD pass. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:08, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Eh, I was cooking dinner, bathing kids, and putting them to sleep while them potato boys was playing. Funny: my wife and I met in Boise. Anyway, did you see this? Oh, eh, I'm not really sure what an RfC is...link, please? and please tell me what to say, and where to say it? Tedder: thanks! I'm having a cup of coffee in your honor, and I baked some cookies for Mrs. Tedder--I hope she likes dinosaurs and hearts. Drmies (talk) 01:52, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * RFC: "request for comment". In this context, a "request for comment on user conduct", namely CoM. Here it is: Requests for comment/ChildofMidnight. They tend to be a toothless dramafest. (that comment will come back to bite me, I'm sure). Oh- cookies- mmm. tedder (talk) 01:59, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * (ec) Hang on, I'm calling child protective services. Are you going to be there for a while? They seem very interested in your interest in sexual bacon goat humor and your comments about bathing your kiddos while cooking and being online. And I think they all voted for G Dub and may have family in Idaho. They don't seem to be taking too kindly your being a "foreigner" either. If you see a white cadillac pull up outside your house with steer horns on the front and a short fat balding dude in white, you've got big problems. ...Just a good ole boy... ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:05, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Speaking of abusive trolls, drama mongers, and stalking harassers, it seems we have a lurker. And he didn't even use the corrected diff where I clarified that 'Bama was a reference to the Roll Tide B-squad team that got rolled by Utah about this time last year. Now the "Euros" will think my comments have something to do with a political figure being promoted relentlessly with biased advocacy by disruptive Wikipedia editors. Now look at the mess I'm in. Who can I blame? Someone call the president. Or Shannon Sharpe. This Nebraska game seems really boring. And the lack of overtime in the last one was a real let down. Times are tough. ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:14, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * CoM, I think you need to be more clear. Just write a section for me, "by an uninvolved party," and sign my name--they'll never be able to tell. But...ahem...please punctuate UNLIKE yourself, or the game is up from the get-go. Tedder, please don't tell anyone! Drmies (talk) 03:33, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Me Drmies; speaking Dutchian and somes English; what? Bacon. I sad because Utah beat us last year and now we play the best player in college football and we don't have Dion Lewis on our team; also Mark Barron is known to get beat deep for big scores. Ban Tarc, Bigtimepeace, RD232, PHGUSTAF, Loonymonkey, the weather cabal, Coren, Risker and those who can't be named by CoM (or are too many to list right this moment). We need to uphold the core Neutral Point of View Policy and support good faith editors; because having an accurate encyclopedia is important; even though I'm communist and think the Kennedys are great because taxing other people while I'm living it up is the right thing to do; the vatican doesn't conspire, no sir, perfectly innocent, don't believe the rumors, Calvin (and possibly Hobbes, the cat and the philosopher, are wrong); also I listen to loud music. What? WHAT? Opinion by Drmies; after long consideration; and a few whiskey shots; hang on I'm cooking something; okay I'm back. Now I have to go work on the Clawboy Claw B-side singles featured list article.

-- There you go. Feel free to cut and paste. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:58, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Did I hear you take my name in vain? - Spaceman  Spiff  04:08, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You know what, I have the feeling you're not taking this as seriously as you should. And you REALLY don't sound like me at all! Ha, I'm done cooking (and done putting away tools, and cleaning up the paint mess from when we painted the study, and done with the dishes) and I'm actually watching the Nebraska game with half an eye (Good Eats is more exciting, actually: the topic is espresso). I'm going to get a little sip of Famous Grouse and drink to your impending topic ban/block/whatever. Later! Drmies (talk) 04:12, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Look at you getting all sensitive. See what I get for fulfilling your request. I spent a lot of time making sure that statement was believable, accurate and representative of what you should be bringing to the table in this effort . Yet all I get in return is complaints. Which part didn't you like? I'll revise. I didn't even mention the bay of pigs, socialism, shallots, reformatory school, "social housing", or that pension scheme for idlers article you were working on until Merkel and Sarkozy got rid of it. What was it called again? I'll think of it... ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:29, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Actual discussion continued

 * It's funny, because I'm far more liberal than they could ever imagine. I voted for Pres. Obama, and I'd vote for him again today. I'm just interested in having balanced, well-written political articles. However, as even the wholly innocuous edit I made regarding Pres. Obama's poll numbers was summarily reverted, I was accused of POINT-iness, UNDUE weight, and all manner of other WikiSins, I'm just disengaging. I would encourage those of you that stick around to moderate your tone, and just keep making them demonstrate their complete and total ownership of that article by making SOUND edits, with no real POV problems. Good luck, Unit  Anode  02:17, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah well, thanks for passing the wall I can bang my head against. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:19, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I opened a thread about the situation at the article probation page. You may want to keep an eye on it, but I don't know if you'll want to post there or not. Hopefully the arbitrators will clarify the situation, and let us know where the hell we go from here. Unit  Anode  04:06, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Somewhere there's a diff where I was accused of violating 14 or 15 different acronyms with a single edit. I think that makes me like the Freddie Barnes of Wikipedia political article editing. I think it would be funny to go back and look at what the actual change was too. And then there were the dozens and dozens of warnings and hostile attack on my talk page. Oh well.
 * Article probation page? Is that one of the Obama pages being kept in a particular editor's userspace? Needless to say, it's a good thing I didn't hold my breath waiting for Tarc's edit warring to get added to the violation listing page. Apparently that page is only for offenses by "the others". I'm sorry, but after watching Arbcon's failure to address any of the incivility, camping out, ownership, or other abuses, I have no faith that help is on the way. ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:17, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Someone had a theory that on problematic pages they should just ban anyone who edited it a lot recently, or at least those who are aggressive in discussion and what not, and start fresh. It would be an interesting experiment anyway. ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:17, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * It would be interesting, but probably a disaster. You'd have a complete calvacade of socks, from both sides, and even more fighting. Hopefully the arbcom will address the issue. Unit  Anode  04:23, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. I've worked on lots of articles with lots of good faith editors. I think the fear mongering about the impending hordes is just an excuse to keep the pernicious powers in place and to preserve the status quo. What's needed is some change we can believe in. ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:39, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * There is interesting -- and productive -- discussion happening at the talkpage now. It's surrounding providing a bit of balance to the sub-section on the Nobel. Not a big step, but a step nonetheless. Unit  Anode  22:28, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

The 2010 WikiCup begins tomorrow!
Welcome to the biggest WikiCup Wikipedia has yet seen! Round one will take place over two months, and finish on February 26. There is only one pool, and the top 64 will progress. The competition will be tough, as more than half of the current competitors will not make it to round 2. Details about scoring have been finalized and are explained at WikiCup/Scoring. Please make sure you're familiar with the scoring rules, because any submissions made that violate these rules will be removed. Like always, the judges can be reached through the WikiCup talk pages, on their talk page, or over IRC with any issues concerning anything tied to the Cup. We will keep in contact with you via weekly newsletters; if you do not want to receive them, please remove yourself from the list here. Conversely, if a non-WikiCup participant wishes to receive the newsletters, they may add themselves to that list. Well, enough talk- get writing! Your submission's page is located here. Details on how to submit your content is located here, so be sure to check that out! Once content has been recognized, it can be added to your submissions page, from which our bot will update the main score table. Remember that only articles worked on and nominated during the competition are eligible for points. Have fun, and good luck! Garden, iMatthew, J Milburn, and The ed17 19:17, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much for the trophy. Were I to go ahead and compete, I'm not sure it would be fair to the other competitors. So giving me the trophy ahead of time and letting the many lessor editors duke it out seems like a good idea. Cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:29, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Comedy is a tough business

 * Arbitration/Requests/Amendment

I'm just amazed by this request and assertion because of the track record and. I think you might want to give your input there. Happy New Year!--Caspian blue 01:41, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Where to begin? It's definitely not my kind of humor, but I suppose it does fit in the tomfoolery category? :) Maybe someone will post some diffs exposing the irony of the absurd claims made in that filing. I'd prefer to stay out of it, but I will try to follow along. Party on. WHOOP WHOOP!!! ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:28, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Happy New Year Child of Midnight!!
I left you a message on my talk page, but if you didn't see it (see how much I have to learn about templates?) I wanted to be sure to wish you the best for the coming year. Oberonfitch (talk) 03:17, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Woohoo!
CoM, before I get too toasty: happy new year! Drmies (talk) 04:24, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Happy New Year friends
Be good! :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:14, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Hehe, sorry. Too late! Drmies (talk) 07:39, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

For what it's worth...
...my comment in your RfC wasn't directed at you. It was directed at people who refuse to sanction editors for misbehaving because the target opinion has a minority opinion in a completely different area of Wikipedia. Sceptre (talk) 04:02, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

AE report
Please see this. You're banned from interacting with Scjessey, and soapboxing on the amendment request page falls under this. Sceptre (talk) 00:34, 3 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Drive-by (rhetorical interaction) comment: At first glance, does not sound like "interacting with" to me. (I.e., one may "speak in the same room," without "interacting with" someone.) Proofreader77 (interact) 02:17, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Updates to policy
Is this the new standard ? ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:41, 3 January 2010 (UTC)


 * 98 had it right. :-) Proofreader77 (interact) 06:50, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Happy New Year
Be safe-Dream Big-Write Well-and have a great year in 2010 can you believe it... Still working away at it slowly,couple more weeksTinkermen (talk) 07:43, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm getting closer to being finished and am shooting to "add content to what's there section by section" per your direction next weekend. I'm trying to keep what you've written and add to it. Still have a couple of things to finish up before then. I am looking forward to getting this done so I can move on to some other things, wow long project. Tinkermen (talk) 05:23, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

It's been quite a year.
Hasn't it? Grundle2600 (talk) 20:31, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey Grundle. Happy New Year. I've never been big on poll numbers, but the unemployment and deficit numbers are definitely pretty big. Still, I'm excited for 2010 and I hope it will be a healthy and happy one for you and yours, and a good one for the U.S. and the world. Party on. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:25, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Happy new year to you too! Grundle2600 (talk) 01:48, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Talkback
PCHS-NJROTC (Messages) 21:57, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Karen Feldman


The article Karen Feldman has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Insufficient basis for notability.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing  will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. —Largo Plazo (talk) 03:41, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I deprodded. Feel free to expand the article with the content available in reliable independent sources on Google News. I didn't take a look at Google Books, but there are probably sources there as well. ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:04, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Whoa! Hold on a minute! This isn't Nazi Germany or 1984! We don't just "delete" people! Grundle2600 (talk) 16:02, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * They're going after the artists and intellectuals first Grundle. The political purges will follow. ;) ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:10, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/ChildofMidnight
Hi, Requests for comment/ChildofMidnight has now been open for about two weeks, and it looks like input is tailing off. So now might be a good time to provide some form of considered response to it. Could you please clarify whether you're intending to do so? Rd232 talk 08:30, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * If you think that all of those who want to comment have finished doing so, I'm happy to provide a response. Reading the comments, I thought the consensus was that y'all didn't want to hear from me, and yet now I'm hearing all these calls of "SPEECH!" "SPEECH!". Go figure. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:41, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No, the balance of opinion (IMO) is that you should be more careful about how/when you make comments at ANI etc, especially on issues which you are not directly involved in - not that you should necessarily stop altogether. There are a number of RFC contributions that make this quite clear, which I hope you've had time to read. And obviously on issues which do directly concern you, you should comment, providing the most thoughtful/constructive input that you can. (I know you're capable of it - I've seen it, on occasion.) Rd232 talk 18:36, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

MSG in instant noodles
I obviously misread your "preparation" (I was not drunk :-), because to a non-native speaker like me, the word sounds like you actually were preparing for making some real meal with a recipe. So I assumed "the preparation indicates that you would go for grocery shopping to get the branded instant noodles or intended to create an article about the product. So I said the noodle cabal as a joke. Similarly, when I watched some American drama, I felt very odd that an actress acting as a housewife said to their hungry children, "I'll make you cereal". However all she did was just simply pouring milk into a bowl containing cereals from a commercially manufactured pack. That was a bit of shocking to me like "how does that "make" cereal? Saying like "I will serve you a bowl of cereal" would be much accurate to me. But well, learning a foreign language is learning its culture.

As for MSG, actually there are research that MSG is not that harmful (I wonder the scholar is funded by MSG manufacturers), but healthy food always requires more money and labor. :-) I don't like Paldo ramyeon products except "bibimmyeon (picture)" (that is quite tasty, kind of bibim guksu) If you want to neutralize or reduce the effect of MSG, then you can add some vegetables, or a slice of cheese, or a bit of milk. Then, the taste would be enriched as well.--Caspian blue 03:18, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Next you'll be telling me that "cooking" requires more than a toaster oven and microwave. I'm eating sardines out of a can right now! Not as good as the Moroccan ones I usually get, unfortunately. I wasn't impressed with the Paldo (what is ramyeon?) soup either. But I had some great Vietnamese fruit chips earlier. As far as fresh things are concerned, aside from my sense of humor, I like persimmons, but this year's crop seems to have been frozen out. :( There's also a ceviche and albondigas guy who started coming to my farmer's market. Let me know if you want me to pick you up some cactus salsa. When I was in Germany they wanted to put kethcup (Heinz of course) on my roast chicken, so truly it's a crazy world, and if it weren't for Wonder Bread, Eggo waffles, and Totino's pizza we'd all be lost. And for home cooked meals and special occasions there's Shake n' Bake or Hamburger Helper. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:29, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Heh, I don't cook even though most of my contribution here is about "food"! Just anticipating or reading some nice food on TV or in book is fun, but cooking is not actually what I enjoy. Sometimes I cook but that is for very special occasions. There are many good restaurants in the world instead. :-) Hmm..ready-made products are not all bad, but picking up something "okay" from a bunch of crappy foods also requires "experiences". :-) Ramyeon (or ramyun) is the Korean reading of ramen, both of which share the same Chinese character. In South Korea, ramyeon only refers to "instant noodles" while Japanese and Chinese think otherwise. I recommend you to try this one, Shin Ramyun. --Caspian blue 03:49, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I get what you actually ate; this instant noodles mimicking seolleongtang (beef soup), but that is a bad choice. |0 This would have been a better choice. ] If you want to try "Paldo products", only this spicy and sour and sweat cold noodles or this hot and spicy king bowl. They are no.1 hits in South Korea. (I feel like I become a sale man).--Caspian blue 04:09, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Article Incubator Invitation
Hi. As a last attempt to establish notability, I have put the article on Bocconi School of Law Student-Edited Papers in the article incubator, here: Article Incubator/Bocconi School of Law Student-Edited Papers. Feel free to cooperate if you have any practical ideas to help establish notability (note: the version therein posted is different - and shorter - from that posted on my talk page last night).Thanks for your help, --Grasshopper6 (talk) 10:13, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Huh?
I swear, some people go well out of their ways to make sure I don't have any fun at all. :)  Trusilver  22:48, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Troubling indeed. That kind of unwelcome refactoring really fires me up! Totally unacceptable. Freaking ne'er-do-wells popping up to interfere. By the way, you seem to have gotten several editors all riled up with your comments on the "bureaucracy". Naughty, naughty. I suggest doing article work or just retiring back to the joys of time spent away from the 'Pedia. Too much stress and craziness here dealing with the MMPORG and its politicians. :O ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:36, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I know. I got the emails that were practically begging me to go read what they have to say, but I didn't take the bait. One of them was from an editor that has been the source of so much drama, that the gall of them to criticize ANYONE comes across sounding a lot like Liberace telling Rock Hudson to please stop being such a flamboyant homosexual. But really, I've found that no longer caring about ANYTHING except the encyclopedia and the preservation thereof has become oddly liberating. Good luck on that RfC. I'm probably not the best person to consult on how to deal with angry people, because my way of dealing with it would be to offer them all vouchers for free boxes of kleenex. Trusilver  02:44, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Tissues? I was thinking sedatives or maybe ipecac. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:06, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Finding things to induce my vomit reflex has NEVER been an issue around here. Quite the opposite...does anyone have a spare bottle of Thalidomide? Trusilver  03:33, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Apparently there are several admins you could ask if they're willing to share their dope. It's supposed to help with nausea, although it doesn't do much for judgment. ;) I suppose it's not going to be a perfect encyclopedia building project (or world) any time soon. But it is interesting and sometimes entertaining. We do what we can. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:48, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't lose heart! The project will come together into harmony eventually. Trusilver  23:30, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Ready to go
I have checked your edit. The Institute of Comparative Law was active for the better part of the last century, whereas the degree in law was offered only starting from 2000. I have therefore corrected your tweak, and I believe we are now ready to go live. Thanks!--Grasshopper6 (talk) 18:09, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Bocconi School of Law Student-Edited Papers
Dear ChildofMidnight. First of all, thank you for your interest in the article which I have recently written, and subsequently delted out of frustration for what I thought was largely unwarranted criticism for lack of notability. As per your request, I have posted the latest version of the article here User_talk:Grasshopper6. A reworked version, which might fare better in the face of lack-of-notability objections, is this one: User:Grasshopper6/BocconiLegalPapers. Please let me know if I can be of any help.--Grasshopper6 (talk) 01:07, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! --Grasshopper6 (talk) 18:41, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I did correct your spelling mistake. Could you please post it live? I believe articles created in the Incubator need have some special tag or so, and I wouldn't know where to put it. As for watchlists, I have learned how to use them.

Sorry to bother you again!--Grasshopper6 (talk) 20:57, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The page has been moved to "Bocconi University School of Law School of Law". I think there's one "School of Law" too much. Would it be possible to move it just to "Bocconi University School of Law". Once that is done, I will begin creating links on the main Bocconi University page.


 * As an Italian myself, I can tell you it can be very hard to tell all of the different varieties apart, as they vary depending on the region. What I do know, having lived in diferent regions, is that Chiacchiere and Bugie are different names for the same kind of pastry, which consists of fried dough with chocolate or jam on the inside, and powdered sugar on top. Please point me to the Incubator, if you ever set up a stub.--Grasshopper6 (talk) 21:32, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Articles for creation

 * Lucie Clayton's Finishing School
 * http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/3359952/Lucie-Clayton-House-A-model-lesson-in-home-making.html
 * http://www.questcollege.co.uk/history.html
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=jA7nPQAACAAJ&dq=The+world+of+modelling+and+how+to+get+the+London+model-girl+look&cd=1
 * Google book and newspaper archive searches show numerous references to the school with descriptions such as "world-famous", etc. (see this snippet of a pay-per-view article). Jean Shrimpton attended. Eventually covered charm, modelling, secretarial, etc.

I'm kinda busy in RL&mdash;you up to it? <sup style="color:green;">Bongo  <sub style="margin-left:-4.2ex; color:blue;">matic  02:34, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You're asking me to get to work on finishing school articles? What does that have to do with bacon, architecture or politics? Plus, I'm a big supporter of Women's Lib. Burn those bras! Free love man. It's time to break through the glass ceiling. Women aren't just secretaries, nurses and teachers Bongo. PEACE!!! As far as my own work, I just added a picture to the sixlets article. ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:37, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You should also work on getting me zome ZOURS. <sup style="color:green;">Bongo  <sub style="margin-left:-4.2ex; color:blue;">matic  02:53, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Never heard of it. Sour straws are pretty good. At least you're talking about important things now! Where are the pictures??? ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:16, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Here <sup style="color:green;">Bongo  <sub style="margin-left:-4.2ex; color:blue;">matic  05:40, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

A note
There will be a midnight screening this coming Friday of a very strange film I am in called Fever Nights. Genre is a kind of acid / horror. Got some decent reviews. Fun to be part of. If you're in the area of Beverly and La Brea on the 8th and want some cheap entertainment, you might stop by the New Beverly Cinema. Gonna be a Q&A and some surprises. But sorry... no bacon.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 02:45, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow. Sounds cool. Thank you very much for the invitation. I'm not sure what my plans are yet. Can I think about it and get back to you. Where would we eat afterwards ;) ? ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:17, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * To perhaps help you make up your mind... it is a midnight show, after all... here's the Official website, a trailer (great soundtrack), and a few reviews..., , , , and ... chuckle... almost Wikipedia worthy.  In that part of town there is always someplace to eat.  And to extend the invitation... anyone reading this note is welcome as well.  A good time is guaranteed for all, but again... no bacon.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 04:16, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Too long a drive for me, but thanks for the invite though :) CoM, would you like to help MQS and me out by creating Mallika Badrinath? It might provide an answer to your problem of "where to eat" afterwards! cheers. - Spaceman  Spiff  05:25, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You know I'm way behind in this year's bacon challenge right??? Not to mention that you guys rolled me with the circular reasoning B.S. ;) ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:30, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You know you love the kind attention.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 05:49, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Would like your opinion
Have tried reorganization of chapter, not sure how it reads. My email is open to you, if you had a moment to look it over.Oberonfitch (talk) 06:49, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I think my e-mail is activated. Send away. I don't check it all the time though, so you can always leave a reminder. I'm a New York style critic I warn you, so don't expect much sugar. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:59, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Heh. Dear CoM:  My work has been renounced by Lee Sandlin.  You could bounce up and down on it as if it were a (trampoline, waterbed, car hood) and it would not make a dent!  (Of course, appreciate in advance just the opening of the aforementioned, consistently-disliked document.)  Will send shortly.  Oberonfitch (talk) 07:24, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * P.S. Awesome sonnet! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oberonfitch (talk • contribs) 07:29, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Proofreader77 is a talented bard. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:03, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 1 January 2010
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">Read this Signpost in full &middot; Single-page &middot; Unsubscribe &middot; EdwardsBot (talk) 22:57, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Harold Ford Jr.
Yeah, I hear that, too, he will run again Kirsten Gillibrand. Fat chance of winning though. COI disclosure: I am friends with one of her staffers, and, as a Democratic committee person, would carry petitions for her. Bearian (talk) 06:39, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Hastalaská (La Degustation)
Hello ChildofMidnight. Thanks for contribution to the Czech area here on Wikipedia, Broučci by Jan Karafiát was one of my childhood nightmares, as it is a really depressive story, everybody died at the end. I also enjoy delicious Kulajda in my favourite pubs. I'm not sure with Hastalaská. Is it the name of one of the restaurants located at the Haštalská Street in Prague? It looks like a typo in English tourist guides. --Vejvančický (talk) 15:16, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your courteous note! Much appreciated. You are absolutely right about the title being wrong. I transcribed the street name as the restaurant name! How embarassing. In the same magazine article I was using, there is a note on V Za'tisi' noting that they also serve some upgraded Czech specialties (it seems to be quite nouvelle), but I don't know how notable it is.


 * I left the Broučci and Jan Karafiát articles very short because there are already extensive articles on them at the Czech Wikipedia (a translated version). I was hoping someone would help me put up the appropriate templates to request a translation. :) The google one seems quite usable, but the last time I translated an article (giving attribution in the edit summary) Sandstein deleted it. So I'm obviously not up to speed on the process. Thanks again for the note! ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:00, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Working through my watchlist I see that you add the templates I couldn't remember how to do. Thanks! ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:49, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Hello again, and thanks for thanks. I've expanded the article Broučci. Still a poor start, but this version is better, in my opinion. Would you mind to check my creaky English style, please? Ask me if you find out something unclear. I would like to nominate the article for DYK. If you have any suggestions for the hook, please let me know. Have a good day, and - no problem - I make embarrassing mistakes both in real life and here on Wikipedia. :) --Vejvančický (talk) 22:44, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I've looked at the Czech article, but I used foreword of the recent edition of the book and other sources for my translation. Unfortunately, the problem of Czech Wiki is poor referencing and original research, it's better to check everything carefully with independent sources. Fireflies are both "adults" and "children", it is quite similar to the human world. The DYK nom is here, thanks for tips. --Vejvančický (talk) 07:37, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Deletion_review/Log/2010_January_6
You had to bring this to DRV didn't you!! I've expended far too much text on that now. Perhaps if you followup there you can see if I am making any sense. The honorable WP:WINErs seem to think I'm daft, whereas I can't, for the life of me, figure out the line they are drawing between notable and non-notable. I realize your raising the DRV was tied into the odd merging of content, but I suspect the closing admin acted that way to preserve useful encyclopedia content despite a squirrelly close.--Milowent (talk) 22:45, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Roll Tide!
And I accept your apologies, cause they ought to be many. Ha! Drmies (talk) 05:27, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

To work on

 * outdoorsman/outdoor enthusiast Is there an article on this subject under a different name? ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:17, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

je== Please stay off WP:AN ==

You're just spouting unhelpful nonsense. If this is how you behave, please just stay away from WP:AN and WP:AN/I. Friday (talk) 19:49, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Here's a link to the discussion wp:an. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:51, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, that is the discussion in which you're spouting unhelpful nonsense. Please stop.  Friday (talk) 19:53, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with Friday
 * CoM, you're not helping the blocked editor properly get his block review by fanning the flame. I strongly urge you immediately to redact all inappropriate comments that you made against the mentioned people. You are not the subject of the topic, and should not be. You should response to the RFC/U instead.
 * I think the block is Jehochman's mistake because this is a content issue, and I don't see any evidence of Damiens.rf's wikistalking or severe personal attacks. I'm inclined to agree that the whole quotebox indeed looks like "epitaph" or "memorial plate" decorating or glorifying the BLP articles. So I'm supporting for unblock the block.--Caspian blue 19:54, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I see. So you you agree that the block is no good and deserves a fair review, something the blocked editor was denied by Jehochman and Rlevse despite repeated requests, but you don't think I should defend myself against unrelated smears in disruptive comments from Moreschi and others? Well, it's a nasty business standing up to abusive behavior on Wikipedia, so I apologize if I'm not perfect at it. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:59, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I think you'll find that a great many people have no objection to editors standing up to abusive behavior. However you're going around inventing abusive behavior, which isn't actually the same thing.  You may want to look at Don't be a fanatic. Friday (talk) 20:02, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Come up with a diff where I've invented abusive behavior. If you can't back it up and won't apologize once you're proved wrong then that's all the more reason you should respect my request that you avoid posting further smears and personal attacks on my talk page. Cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:03, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Innocent mistakes can happen, and the blocked editor has a "certain reputation" for disrupting Wikipedia (I just saw his name mentioned in some ArbCom cases, and many AE files piled up). So please don't project your feeling and experience to the indef.block's situation. From what I've seen Jehochman's contribution to Wikipedia, I don't believe Jehochman did it from "bad faith" as you accused. Moreover, Jehocham and Rlevse did not attack nor condone you being attacked by your "fans" at all. As I've said to you thousand time, they would not know until you present damn good evidences and diffs. Repeatedly using rhetoric and making accusations is not "evidence". That rather paints your image very badly. Moreover, your first AN report contains a biased view and personal attacks against Jehochman. That's why you received Moreschi's knee-jerk cynical response. I think his comment is not good, however, it is true that you should refrain from getting involved in drama in which you're not an original party. --Caspian blue 20:10, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Wait a minute, where did I accuse Jehochman of bad faith? Please refactor. That's simply not true. Secondly, Rlevse AND Jehochman have stood by repeatedly and allowed trolling, online harassment, and stalking to go on despite their responsibilities as admins (and Rlevse's as an arbitrator).
 * The fact is that Jehochman hasn't been around to address the concerns of editors regarding his block on his own talk page or on Damiens' page, and Jehochman refused to put the block up for review despite numerous requests by the blocked editor.
 * If you don't consider that abusive blocking and running then so be it, but if you're ever indefinitely blocked and the admin disappears after refusing your polite requests for a review you may well feel differently. Jehochman has a history of acting unilaterally and refusing to answer concerns. And in my opinion Rlevse seems to be a very abusive arbcom. You're welcome to agree or disagree, but based on what I've seen that's my opinion. If diffs are needed I try to provide them, but generally it's a waste of time because things are decided here based on politics not evidence. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:19, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Jehochman apparently thinks it's appropriate to unilaterally level indefinite blocks, launch unsupported allegations of racism against an editor who shows every sign of acting in good faith, refuses requests for review, and then heads off "for a tennis lesson and a quick bite." His actions speak for themselves as far as I'm concerned. But other editors are welcome to disagree. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:27, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * ""Jehochman appears to have pulled the classic controversial block and run maneuver", "It has occured to me that we have many abusive admins who make inappropriate blocks and then disappear." "Jehochman and Rlevse continue to abusively use their positions of authority to impose their will" "Rlevse and Jehochman come and bully someone they disagree with on content issues, blocking them indefinitely without attempting any dispute resolution. And Jehochman goes so far as to make unsupported accusations of racism. The thugs who engage in this kind of behavior should be banned post haste. I'm disgusted.""


 * CoM, I don't think I wrote something to redact by your request. Look at your own words, those are "horrendous" and "appalling". If you think that Jehochman is a horrible admin, please "recall for revoking his adminship". He is open to recall, and WP:ArbCom is a right venue for the purpose. Or there has been ongoing discussion on desysopping, but I have not seen your name there. So complaining without any trials to improve the system is less of value. As for the blocked editor, he behaved very calm, while you were out of line and delayed his wish for the matter being taken to ANI. Jehochman is of course responsible for his action, but your way of protesting is wrong and makes people who sympathaize the mistreatment that you've received just back far away from helping you. As for Rlevse, I disagree with your assessment. If you're not willing to response to your RFA/U but to engage in more drama, many people would get you very soon. So please calm down.--Caspian blue 20:41, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Wait a minute. I attempted to give Rlevse and Jehochman an opportunity to answer concerns. They had already been given an opportunity to put the block up for review. When admins abuse their tools it should be corrected. In this case they refused to make any course correction (and Jehochman is now bossing other admins around to "follow consensus" after he disregarded the need for any). I don't think Jehochman is a bad person and I know he edits in good faith, but when he refuses to abide by our policies and abuses his tools he needs to take responsibility and make the appropriate corrections and apologies. I stand by my statements that the behavior of Jehochman and Rlevse is horrendous and appalling. I hope they will take a good long look in the mirror and shape up. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:46, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

re GA BLT
Thank you for the kind words about Everything Tastes Better with Bacon getting to GA. :) Much appreciated, Cirt (talk) 04:18, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

10:27 PM, PST
Heading out now for the screening. Hope to see many friends there. Best,  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 06:28, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Outdoor enthusiast


The article Outdoor enthusiast has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * WP:NOT (dictionary)

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing  will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.  O liver  T wisted (Talk) (Stuff) 06:50, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I removed the PROD from this article; but I'm not convinced it is ready for mainspace. My alarms went off when it appeared to be an excuse for a link to the publication Outdoor Life. As an experienced editor, I'm sure you were just getting started. Best regards. --  O liver  T wisted (Talk) (Stuff) 07:04, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Cool. No worries. Thanks for the note. I did a search for outdoorsman and that was one of the things that came back. The article definitely needs sourcing and expansion. But I think it's a very worthy and interesting subject. The history of "outdoorsmen" and such is also interesting. Anyway, cheers. Thanks for patrolling new articles. I haven't been doing that in a while after I got chewed out once for doing a wikilink to the word that was there (which wasn't the right article link). It's a dangerous assignment! :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 07:08, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

RfC suggestion
Hey CoM, it might be a good idea for you to go ahead and post some sort of response at the RfC about you... at least saying you are aware of it and what's been said. Lady of  Shalott  19:33, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think so too. There were some still a few comments trickling in, but I'll go ahead and post something. Thanks for the note. Enjoy the Jets game. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:35, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll enjoy not watching any sort of game, but you enjoy watching it yourself. :) Lady  of  Shalott  19:48, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Re: Change for the better
Dear ChildofMidnight, thank you for the message. I hope that an outcome of the discussion will be a change of policy for the better. I will check and see how things are going on, but I doubt that I will continue to make any more contributions. Wikipedia has been good to me and I have been told via e-mails that I have done good with my work and made a difference in some people's life's which is really satisfiing. You have been a good person and I hope that this year brings you a lot of blessings. Tony the Marine (talk) 06:16, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

500?
Wow. Congratulations and thanks again for your help. Much appreciated. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:55, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you, ChildofMidnight. A number of the 500+ DYKs were your articles, and you did a lot more work than I did.  Thank  you ! --PFHLai (talk) 18:33, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 11 January 2010
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">Read this Signpost in full &middot; Single-page &middot; Unsubscribe &middot; EdwardsBot (talk) 08:17, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Autoreviewer?
I keep seeing your articles while I'm doing NPP, so I've nominated you for autorev status here. Best, -- B figura (talk) 21:32, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see you declined this in the past. If you've changed your mind, do let me know, as I'd be happy to nominate you. -- B figura (talk) 21:52, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi Bfigura, I like to have people review and help out with my articles, but if it's a burden or there's a benefit to the project in not having my creations reviewed then I'm willing to consider autoreviewer status. Many of the articles I create get nominated for deletion, so some people seem to think many of them deserve scrutiny or aren't worthwhile. I have no objection to open and honest debate. I do like to think that many of them are interesting and that the new page patrollers might actually get a kick out of checking them out (as opposed to a lot of the gunk that comes through the front door). But I suppose one person's gunk is another's treasure. And one person's treasure is anothers gunk. And so it goes! ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:59, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi COM, Autoreviewer is like any user right entirely optional, especially for writers like you whose work is distinctly bespoke. But I would request that if you ever feel the urge to try out your cut and paste skills on a project such as creating stubs for all redlinked African rivers, please let us make you an an Autoreviewer first.  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  13:26, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Timeline of fictional future events
I'd like to have this article moved to my userspace if anyone is willing to do that for me. I think it might be worth including if it can be reworked some. I'm not sure. But it's interesting anyway, so I'd like to keep it and see what can be done with it. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:47, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ Leaving it to you to strip categories, AFD, etc. tedder (talk) 18:50, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you sir. The Northwest is safe for a while, I'm up to my eyeballs in Cincinnati architecture at the moment! ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:00, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You're welcome in Oregon territory anytime. tedder (talk) 19:07, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Licensing:

 * I just added the US distributor (La Venezolana Corp) as the owner. If the box otherwise identifies the manufacturer, substitute their name. I can attempt it if you want, but you should be able to do it. And then let the nonfree page know you've fixed it... Geoff <sup style="color:blue;">Who, me?  01:03, 12 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Alternatively, you could use this photo I found on Flickr and uploaded to Commons. It has a bite out of it, but it's otherwise a nice photo. Geoff  <sup style="color:blue;">Who, me?  01:17, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * That photo looks great. I just saw it had no phtoo so I uploaded what I have. There are lots of product photos, so I think it's kind of bogus to delete it, but admitteldly I'm not an expert on licensing and such. I'll have to look into your suggestions when I get a chance. I've been digging my way out of Frederick W. Garber references and I still need to expand a couple other articles so they qualify for DYK. I wonder why some are ring shaped and some are ball shaped? Gracias para ayudarme Señor. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:31, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * De nada. On the shape question, I saw both shapes on the 'net, so I suppose a trip to Cartagena for a first hand look and sampling study is the only way to resolve the issue. Geoff  <sup style="color:blue;">Who, me?  02:01, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Cartagena is pleasant, though a little hot for me. Great fruit juice stands and scenery. Also note it's "Colombiana", not "Columbiana". Make sure to look for the "Crepes y Waffles" chain. Mmm. tedder (talk) 20:08, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The only remaining question, then, is "do they have bacon, too?" Geoff  <sup style="color:blue;">Who, me?  17:27, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Creo que they are more into salted hams (prosciutto). As wall as small fish and little chili peppers. But I haven't been. :( ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:29, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Antti Nurmesniemi
Do you have any references for this guy? I looked on Google and found mostly people trying to sell me (expensive) dishes. Regards, PDCook (talk) 20:24, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi PDC. There's quite a lot on Google Books, much of it not available online, but some sources are and note his work, marriage to another designer it looks like, etc. Project Finland probably can help. According to a snippet from the Danish Design Center he is "one of the designers who made Finnish design world famous.
 * He is married to the Finnish textile designer Vuokko Nurmesniemi" and another source calls him the grand old man of finnish design. So there should be a lot out there somewhere. :) I would help, but I'm busy working on Minnesota dessert salads and Midwestern architects of some renown. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:37, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I added a sentence and reference about a design award he won, so at least it's not unreferenced now and shows some degree of notability. I'll keep looking. Thanks, PDCook (talk) 20:47, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I found a quote where he said "This house is about spaces within space, sometimes overlapping, other times separate" which is pretty awesome even without knowing the context. He seems to have done some avant garde furniture design as well as door designs. When will the U.S. achieve this passion for design??? And that junk that Ikea sells is not the real thing people! Seriously. Stop buying that kitsch! ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:58, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * In 1998 Newsweek (Volume 131, Issues 9-17‎ - Art - ) said that "Our own favorite thing, however, is an unpretentious red enameled steel coffeepot (1957) by Antti Nurmesniemi. Why? Because the object's very practical form..." Which says a lot. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:01, 13 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh and actually the easiest out would probably be to just add tags (I forget the proper formatting). There are a bunch of articles I threw up that need them actually... see my user page for more). The Scandahooligan Wikis probably have good articles on these paragons of the good looks and taste. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:04, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Nice chair (I like it a lot and long wondered who would that be the creator). --Caspian blue 06:19, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Dutch oven (practical joke)
An editor has nominated Dutch oven (practical joke), an article which you have created or worked on, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to address the nominator's concerns but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate. Thank you. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 09:00, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the notice. I know you weren't the nominator. Cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:38, 11 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I was quite surprised it has lasted so long without this discussion. What will be will be. I think it should remain, others will differ. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 17:07, 11 January 2010 (UTC)


 * It's probably best to keep this under wraps for a while. tedder (talk) 17:15, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You don't think it should be aired out? ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:52, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The AfD rationale really stinks.--kelapstick (talk) 21:08, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't be an ass. tedder (talk) 22:07, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Are you gentlement finished butting in here? How long before the "whoever smelt it dealt it (sic) jokes start? Speaking of which, if there's no article on that subject... ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:33, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

←You may find this a helpful addition, taken from the lady's point of view.--kelapstick (talk) 18:46, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * If you're gonna go there, there's a TV show that mocks a TV show about dutch ovens. Yeah, pretty meta. tedder (talk) 18:56, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Is this what goes on at Kelapstick's house ? ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:04, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * If only we could get that freely licenced....--kelapstick (talk) 19:09, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Cleveland Athletic Club


The article Cleveland Athletic Club has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * not clear how this might meet notability guidelines. Lacks significant coverage in 3rd party sources

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing  will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. RadioFan (talk) 02:02, 14 January 2010 (UTC)


 * And just as quickly unprodded; quite aside from the obnoxiousness of tagging an article for deletion 1 minute after creation, this was a ridiculous tagging. CAC was inter alia the venue for Johnny Weissmuller's world swimming record, and the building is a major landmark. Did you do even the most basic searching before you tagged this building - the subject of huge amounts of press coverage, both as a sports venue and the subject of a hugely controversial closure - as "Lacks significant coverage in 3rd party sources"? – iride  scent  02:20, 14 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Indeed, this is what WP:NEWT was all about. Googling is good. Though, admittedly, COM should have put up a bigger stub that shows the importance of it. tedder (talk) 03:21, 14 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I used the word "historic" TWICE, and I even included a citation for the article! I can go back to saying "very very notable" but that wording usually seems to get trimmed. ;) I'm counting on Lar to expand it. He's even further behind than the Oregon project! ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:44, 14 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Hey now! We're not far behind compared to nearly any other subject area/project. It's a good think the "modern" history of our subject is only 150 years old. But yeah, I should start putting "this is very very notable" in articles too. tedder (talk) 03:58, 14 January 2010 (UTC)


 * All this trouble would've been saved if CoM just agrees to get WP:Autoreviewer status. It's only pages that show up as "needing" to be patrolled that get prodded in a couple of minutes. - Spaceman  Spiff  05:36, 14 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not a fan of autoreviewer either, FWIW. I think 40% of it is due to the short article length, 10% to not being autoreviewer, and 50% is to NewPages patrollers who are tired of the endless crap coming through. tedder (talk) 05:41, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I mostly refuse autoreview status to spite Spaceman Spiff. Until he agrees to my version of circular reference there will be no respite or reprieve. ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:55, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * (re Tedder) My issue isn't with the tagging - anyone who's ever done NPP will have made a similar bad call at some point, which is why prod candidates have to be double-checked by an admin (theoretically anyway - not mentioning names, but at least one admin has been known to run a "delete all" script on all expired prods). My beef is with the NPPer's blatant lie of "Lacks significant coverage in 3rd party sources", implying they've carried out checks when they've clearly done nothing of the sort; CAC is from the pre-internet age so most coverage of it is in paper sources, but even for someone unable to check paper sources then 10 seconds on Google would verify that CAC is one of J. Milton Dyer's most significant works, and a major (albeit boot-ugly) Ohio landmark. – iride  scent  12:19, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Assuming good faith I suspect the tag and bagger meant the article didn't have significant coverage in third party sources. But that isn't really true either with the source that was there. Anyway, it was a bad tagging one minute after article creation, but these things happen.
 * The main thing is that tedder is now responsible for expanding the article with properly formatted references. Oh and I don't think the building looks bad. It has nice detailing. That photo just has bad lighting.
 * It's tough that most of our architecture photos are just exteriors. But c'est la vie. The facades are of course only a small part of the architectural planning and don't give a lot of insight on the strength of the overall design. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:00, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Cleveland pictures
Confused, what do you want me to do? If you want pictures in the Cleveland area, you're probably going to have to find someone else — I live on the other side of Ohio; except for occasionally seeing a doctor in Cleveland, I'm almost never in the area; and as I can't drive, I can't get up there just because I want to. Perhaps you could talk with JonRidinger, who lives one county south and is active with a camera; or EurekaLott, who lives in Cleveland but isn't so active with a camera. Of course, if I'm misunderstanding and you want me to do something else, tell me and I'll try to help :-) Nyttend (talk) 02:37, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You can't out someone else by asking them personal information — outing is telling someone else's information, not asking for them to tell :-) I live northwest of Columbus in Logan County.  As far as your communities — I was last in Dayton on Christmas (riding on I-75 on the way to Warren County); Cincinnati visiting a relative's grave in November; Cleveland at the doctor's on whatever day I took the Tavern Club picture; Columbus last week, making a stop on a trip by Greyhound; and I've never been to Oberlin.  What's the architect's name?  Nyttend (talk) 02:49, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, I was in Springfield earlier this week, but I didn't get a chance to go downtown — I'm an assistant scoutmaster with my old Boy Scout troop, and I was going with the Scoutmaster to our council offices on the west side; since it was his car, I couldn't choose where we were going. Believe me, I'm going to go to downtown Springfield when I can; there are several NRHP sites downtown for which I don't have pictures.  I don't know when I'd get a chance to get the other sites (except for a few times on I-75 on the way to Detroit, I've literally never been to Toledo), but I'll try to remember if/when I get a chance.  I'm hoping that I can get a driver's license before too long; if so, my range will be much greater than it is now, when all I have is a bicycle :-)  Nyttend (talk) 03:47, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * By the way, what's the address for the Cleveland Athletic Club? Nyttend (talk) 03:49, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 1118 Euclid Avenue Cleveland, OH 44115-1603 There seems to be a major historic street because I think there's a bunch of other stuff there too... Canton McKinley High School needs a photo also. :) A lot of ground to cover! ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:02, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, this means that it's a contributing property to the Euclid Avenue Historic District, which is on the National Register. Wait while I get you an infobox for the article.  Nyttend (talk) 04:11, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Infobox added; can you put in information such as architect, style of architecture, and coordinates? Nyttend (talk) 04:15, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * See Commons:Category:Files by User:Nyttend and its "Building-centered pictures" subcategory. And yes, the Columbus area is underrepresented; on the NRHP level alone, Franklin County has fewer pictures than any of the state's other major metro area counties except Lucas, and that's partially because I've contributed some for Franklin County.  Lately, I've been working on something significantly different — NRHP-listed archaeological sites in Pennsylvania.  See Deffenbaugh Site for something that I wrote today.  Nyttend (talk) 04:01, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Is "old boy scout troop" the same as "man scout troop"? tedder (talk) 04:13, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

How do I get photos fixed? Like the Whiskey Island coast guard photo I added to J. Milton Dyer doesn't appear to be by him or to be in Cleveland? Is it possible to edit other people's photos? Not from Wikipedia right, but over on Commons? I guess taking something uploaded by Eureka Lot should be taken with a grain of salt? ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:26, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Oops, my mistake. It appear to be right! Apologies to all concerned. Too many windows open and trying to keep track of too many things and confused by the OTHER Whiskey Island (the only one with a Wikipedia article until moments ago). ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:06, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

(EDIT CONFLICT)
 * EurekaLott is generally reliable, and s/he knows what s/he is doing. Perhaps the Dyer bit is a mislabelled caption on the source page?  Unfortunately, the source page is now rotten, so you can't check it.  The site is definitely in Cleveland; it's Coast Guard station on the western side of the mouth of the Cuyahoga River, at 41.50306°N, -81.71278°W .  Thanks for the compliment on the Deffenbaugh Site; but what do you mean about superscripts?  If you mean the little numbers after the references (e.g. the ":5" after the citation that follows the phrase "approximately 1,200 feet (370 m).") — that's rp, used to cite individual page numbers of documents that are repeatedly cited without using a page number.  This template allows me to cite a single multipage document repeatedly without having to produce a separate new citation each time I'm using a different page from the document.  While the Deffenbaugh Site would "only" require four or five different citations for the same document, see reference #2 at Mummy Cave — the document is used twenty-three times, so using rp reduces the total number of different citations by more than twenty without sacrificing precision.  Nyttend (talk) 05:04, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yup. She or he was right and I was wrong. ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:06, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I've wanted to know how to do that somehow, but that seems a problematic way. It should show up in the refs not in the text, especially since I don't think a casual reader would have any idea those are page numbers Isn't ummm.. kind of late out there in W.O.? ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:44, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It's an acceptable reference style, and far easier in my mind than having a separate complete citation for each different page number. I don't remember the last time that I saw a page that used MLA parenthetical referencing (my preferred style when writing), and I really don't like Chicago Style (I find the Chicago Manual itself rather confusing, and I had to use it in college way more than I wanted), so I don't feel bound to either one when I'm writing.  I add large amounts of new content rarely enough (this spate of new articles is quite unusual for me) that the only time I've ever used it significantly in an article I didn't write by myself was Mummy Cave, where (I believe) Acroterion, the main writer, was thankful for the simplicity that it gave.  And yes, it was somewhat late in western Ohio last night :-)  Sorry for the needed cropping; I admit that I'm not the best photographer (although someone would disagree), and the day I took that, I was running all over downtown Zanesville trying to get pictures of all the NRHP locations in the downtown as quickly as I could; my driver was getting somewhat impatient by the time that I found the post-office-and-courthouse.  I'll take it to the graphics lab.  Nyttend (talk) 21:21, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Mummy Cave was the first time I'd used that style. The article leaned heavily on one 150-page document, so page numbers were essential. I liked it once I grasped the concept, but I agree that it's a little opaque for the casual reader.   Acroterion  (talk)  21:32, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah the page number issue is a problem. I like the Notes and then separate references section for that reason, but am far too lazy to actually implement it. But I support its use by others. :) The photo is GREAT and I'm very glad to have it. Writing about architects and architecture (although there's actually very little discussion of the architecture itself in the sources I've seen so far) if a lot more fun when there's something to look at. Thanks very much for taking and uploading the image!!! There's always a trade-off between a big camera that takes great photos and the handiness of the point nad shoot than fits in a pocket. Your photos look quite good and are plenty sufficient for Wikipedia use where they can always be cropped, since many of them could be a bit tighter for our little image boxes. I actually like the borders though as they often give interseting context, but for small images a tight shot is probably best. Anyway, thanks again! Enjoy yourself. Biking is very good exercise!!! If you include the architect as a category for you buildings I find its a nice way to catalog them. But that's my area of interest. :) It does group sets of buildings in a logical way though. Cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:45, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't generally pay much attention to the architects, so you'll almost never find an architect category on an article I've written unless someone else has added it. Granted, my last several new articles have included categories for the people who designed them, but the category is not a normal architect category :-)  And you're quite welcome for the photos; I "collect" NRHP locations (even if there's a better picture online, I'll get one or more of a site; for example, I have eight of the Muskingum County Courthouse in Zanesville), so I'd keep photographing them even if the Wikimedia Foundation vanished tomorrow.  Nyttend (talk) 22:43, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * And yes, bicycling is good exercise (I went from Indianapolis to Grand Rapids once with a church group and had a great time), but it quite literally gets rather tiresome after a while, especially if you want to go a long distance. And it's not easy to cross highways; a few minutes before I got this picture, I got a flat, and ended up being stranded for the evening on the wrong side of the Ohio River during a rainstorm, since I couldn't walk back across the vehicles-only Jennings Randolph Bridge.  I'm looking forward to being able to go more than about 20 miles from home soon :-)  Nyttend (talk) 22:58, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Nothing is everything (except maybe everything?). I find a motorcycle is a great way to do wikiphotos- nobody really minds if you pop onto a sidewalk for a minute, or park in a no-parking area, etc. ObCleveland, I stayed in that arcade because a hurricane was blowing a storm up that way two summers ago. Great Magnet at work. tedder (talk) 23:04, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Great Magnet? For lightning? The architect (John Eisenmann) turns out to be pretty notable. I thought the name looked familiar, but then there were only two buildings listed on the page I was using (which didn't include the arcade...). But the arcade helps establish his notability pretty well. ;)
 * There seems to be a sizable Jewish population in these Ohio cities as well. I wonder if he was a member?
 * Oh I just found out he seems to have been the one to design the state flag and some other stuff. He was pretty notable after all. Iw as going to but very very notable, but with just two buildings to begin with I wasn't sure. But as he is now accomplishing more and more, he's getting to be impressive! ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:28, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You've probably heard of Peter Eisenman (one n at the end, no relation).  Acroterion  (talk)  03:46, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Great Magnet is too made-up-in-a-day for a wiki entry, but it's The Great Magnet is the idea that random events tend to cluster together. In other words, the god of statistics makes everything seem related. Sort of an atheist version of deja vu or "it was meant to be". Wow- it has an entry! Sweet. 23:31, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Please offer an opinion at Graphic Lab/Photography workshop, section "Crop out pavement" — a cropped image is available for the Zanesville post office/courthouse, and the cropper wants to know if it's satisfactory. Nyttend (talk) 03:17, 15 January 2010 (UTC)