User talk:ChillyWaters

Welcome!
Welcome to Wikipedia, ChillyWaters! Here are some links to help you along:
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If you need help, then feel free to. Have a great Wiki-Day. Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ Talk 19:33, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Making available a PDF for reference
Hi. I'm new and learning. I referenced a webpage that doesn't seem to archive with waybackmachine. That website is basically a text-recognized version of a much older PDF document of which I have a copy. I got that PDF from an online source once, but I can no longer find that PDF online. How can I make my copy live --- and permanently live --- so that I can reference it in wikipedia? I understand that references need not be live to be acceptable to wikipedia; nevertheless, it's nice when this is the case.

Thanks for your help!

ChillyWaters (talk) 14:45, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Wikisource is a great place for material like this if it meets their scope (im not an editor there so im not sure if it does) but ask there and im sure they can help you upload that pdf. --Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ Talk 19:29, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for your information and taking the time to respond to my query. Forgive me, I'm totally new here and the talk structures seem, to this newbie, VERY convoluted. Did I just do ANYTHING right here? So, back to my question: What happens if the document is copyrighted? Therein could lie a rub, right? ChillyWaters (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:39, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not familar with how wikisource works exactly so you will have to ask there. Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ Talk 19:57, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * OK; thank you again! ChillyWaters (talk) 20:03, 5 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Wikisource will only take the document if it's out of copyright or freely licensed. If it's non-free, publishing it there - anywhere - is a copyright violation. Huon (talk) 20:17, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I can't say that isn't the answer I expected. Thank you. ChillyWaters (talk) 20:19, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry mate i wasnt aware. However we can use the source even if no online versions readily at hand. Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ Talk 21:43, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Before I make myself out to be a complete dummy, it was clear to me that republishing copyrighted material would be a problem. What made it less clear is what happens if one version (in HTML) is available from the source (a government) and I wanted to make available scans of the originals (in PDF) which were used to generate the HTML - scans that were made by, and received from, the source! That isn't quite so clear - or maybe it is. The content of the two is identical. ChillyWaters (talk) 22:23, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Can you point us to the HTML version that's available, please? "Available" doesn't necessarily mean "free of copyright" or "freely licensed". The US federal government's works are in the public domain; few other governments (not even most US state governmets) are as permissive. It would be easier to give specific advice if we knew what exactly we're discussing. Huon (talk) 22:39, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Absolutely! https://www.ontario.ca/page/michipicoten-island-provincial-park-management-statement Incidentally, I'm putting these "Ping" things before my responses here. Is this necessary/correct/advised/a problem? Thanks again. ChillyWaters (talk) 23:15, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

That text says: "© 1986 Government of Ontario". So it's not in the public domain, and there's no mention of a free license; thus we have to assume it's non-free (the Ontario version of Crown copyright, apparently). A PDF copy of that content would still be subject to the same copyright. Publishing a copy is exactly what copyright limits and restricts, independent of the format and independent of whether it's published elsewhere. Ontario's copyright policies apparently allow people "to reproduce the text and images contained in the statutes, regulations and judicial decisions without seeking permission and without charge" under some restrictions; I'm not sure whether the text in question is considered a statute or regulation. Wikisource likely still won't want it because, unless I'm mistaken, they require a license compatible to the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 license, which Ontario' Crown copyright isn't. There may be other filesharing websites that are less discriminating. That text, however, comes with an ISBN, and I assume in 1986 it wasn't published in electronic form but on paper. It may be easiest to cite that paper, with a link to the Government of Ontario's website provided for our readers' convenience. The paper is likely available in well-stocked libraries in Ontario, so it won't be lost should the website go offline. Huon (talk) 23:33, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * That's a fantastic answer. I can confirm the document is not a statue or a regulation. Thanks for your thorough analysis. ChillyWaters (talk) 23:44, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

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