User talk:Chocolateboy/Archive 4

Orphaned non-free media (File:Boiler room dvd.jpg)
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Notification: changes to "Mark my edits as minor by default" preference
Hello there. This is an automated message to tell you about the gradual phasing out of the preference entitled "Mark all edits minor by default", which you currently have (or very recently had) enabled.

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Disambiguation link notification
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Disambiguation link notification
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Invitation to events in June and July: bot, script, template, and Gadget makers wanted
I invite you to the yearly Berlin hackathon, 1-3 June. Registration is now open. If you need financial assistance or help with visa or hotel, then please register by May 1st and mention it in the registration form.

This is the premier event for the MediaWiki and Wikimedia technical community. We'll be hacking, designing, teaching, and socialising, primarily talking about ResourceLoader and Gadgets (extending functionality with JavaScript), the switch to Lua for templates, Wikidata, and Wikimedia Labs.

We want to bring 100-150 people together, including lots of people who have not attended such events before. User scripts, gadgets, API use, Toolserver, Wikimedia Labs, mobile, structured data, templates -- if you are into any of these things, we want you to come!

I also thought you might want to know about other upcoming events where you can learn more about MediaWiki customization and development, how to best use the web API for bots, and various upcoming features and changes. We'd love to have power users, bot maintainers and writers, and template makers at these events so we can all learn from each other and chat about what needs doing.

Check out the the developers' days preceding Wikimania in July in Washington, DC and our other events.

Best wishes! - Sumana Harihareswara, Wikimedia Foundation's Volunteer Development Coordinator. Please reply on my talk page, here or at mediawiki.org. Sumana Harihareswara, Wikimedia Foundation Volunteer Development Coordinator 02:29, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Re: The Human Stain
Just wanted to drop a note saying thanks for your editorship on The Human Stain. I just walked through the relevant history, and you stood out as a reasonable, responsible editor amongst a whole lot of messiness. --The Human Spellchecker (talk) 04:45, 8 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks! chocolateboy (talk) 04:48, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Noise? Or readability?
Hi Chocolateboy,

The edit you made to remove "wikitext noise" in William Hazlitt resulted in the reintroduction of the problem that the "noise" was meant to fix. This is a quotation within a quotation, with part in Italic typeface and part plain type. It's a very unusual case for Wiki formatting, and I struggled to avoid having the closing single quote disappear. You attempted to fix the problem in a simpler way, with the kind of double curly braces used for kerning. Unfortunately, that did not work. I have now introduced a space where it normally should not be. The missing quote then reappears. I'm writing this because I want you to know that I am no lover of "wikitext noise" myself. But I also believe that the text should be correctly punctuated for the reader. Normally readers don't look at the underlying markup.

If you can come up with a better way to fix this problem, go ahead, I won't object. But I strongly believe that the punctuation should appear as intended.

--Alan W (talk) 20:40, 9 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi.

"Unfortunately, that did not work."


 * What didn't work? According to this, the (wikified) title is:


 * "George Orwell: "As the bones know""


 * Changing those embedded double quotes to single quotes (as is permitted and, in this case, necessary to avoid barbarism) gives (WYSIWYG):


 * "George Orwell: 'As the bones know'"


 * What is the problem with this? If the problem is: the closing single-quote "disappears" into the closing double-quote (I'm assuming you recognize that it is actually displayed?), then I agree that it isn't ideal, but it has the virtue of accuracy. Your version makes the closing single-quote stand out more, but mangles the title by adding a gratuitous and conspicuous extra character, which contravenes the Wikipedia policy of minimal change.


 * chocolateboy (talk) 22:10, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

You are overlooking one thing. The example you give above looks fine (and, yes, I understand how to change text size in my browser's display). But with the Italics, even with ridiculously large magnification, I still can't really see the closing single quote:

"George Orwell: As the bones know"

This, as I see it, loses the virtue of accuracy. The underlying markup might be accurate, but unless you are editing an article, you don't read that markup.

--Alan W (talk) 23:19, 9 September 2012 (UTC)


 * What italics? We don't need quotes and italics. When wikifying titles, it's either (e.g.) "Essay" or Novel, not "Essay" and "Novel".


 * There's no policy that says "mangle titles to work around browser quirks". I've changed it back to the correct version in accordance with Wikipedia policy.


 * chocolateboy (talk) 23:30, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

I will grant that my own favorite browser might be the source of the appearance problem. On the other hand, if there hadn't been a widespread problem with displaying Italics and quotes in a variety of broswers, the method of kerning with double curly braces wouldn't have been created.

I think you're oversimplifying this particular issue. Maybe there isn't much that is really explicit in the rules covering this unusual case. I agree that article titles should be placed in quotation marks. No disagreement there. But this is a rare article that itself uses Italic typeface in part of its title. How do we handle that? There is a rule for Italics within quotations: "Use italics within quotations if they are already in the source material." Unfortunately, I can find nothing explicit that reconciles this with the common rules for treating titles. But I don't see anything that prohibits using Italics in quoted titles if they are in the original. And if we do that, we get the display problem.

I just checked your last edit, and, since without the Italics we can see all quotation marks, I suppose it will do. At any rate I don't intend to lose sleep over this. It's more important to me to contribute substantive content than to argue things like this endlessly. I just wish you wouldn't dismiss this out of hand as if there were no real problem. As I see it, this is a rare case that Wikipedia rules have not explicitly accounted for yet.

--Alan W (talk) 00:13, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

File permission problem with File:Bastard.jpg
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Does this js still work?
I'm checking if the scripts here still work: Tools/Greasemonkey_user_scripts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Chocolateboy/smart_quotes.user.js

Yours was last updated December 2005, I'm to lazy to test it. If it still works, could you put the date you've lasted tested it on the page?

Thanks! 84.106.26.81 (talk) 15:57, 2 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Try this. chocolateboy (talk) 17:35, 2 August 2013 (UTC)