User talk:Chris troutman/Archive 8

Request on 08:20:52, 29 August 2014 for assistance on AfC submission by Hamik.m
Dear Chris, I have removed all the wording that may be considered non-neutral. Considering the sources, they are all 3rd party and totally independent. None of the articles was done because it was payed for by the artist. As I mentioned, I even deleted the "daily mail" as considered it not trustworthy enough for wikipedia. But Fjords Magazine and Visual Language are both respected art magazines and totally 3-rd party. The only external links that are connected to the painter are the links to his website and portfolio on the web. All of the other external links are 3rd party. Later the information about the work sold from Phillips Auction will be added to the article also, but for now there is no permanent link for the lot. I cannot agree with the remark of Arthur goes shopping that "One of the artist's works being up for auction is not enough to prove their notability." It depends on the auction first of all. I hope none will doubt Phillips is one of the most respected contemporary art auctions in the world and there is no possibility to get there without being a notable artist. Just have a look on the page about the Phillips Art Auctions on the Wikipedia before giving this kind of remarks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillips_(auctioneers). It is actually totally unprofessional that the highest rank experts working at the auction consider the artist notable, while reviewers of the wikipedia do not. After all the article is just about the existence of a man named Tigran Tsitoghdyan who is a painter. So can I assume that Phillips auction considers him a painter, and wikipedia does not? If there is anything else that wikipedia reviewers may consider advertising-like, i will gladly remove it, but concerning the notability I do not think there should be an issue. Don't you agree? Hamik.m (talk) 08:20, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I do not agree. Wikipedia has a general notability guideline as well as a host of subject-specific notability guidelines like WP:ARTIST. Please read those guidelines.
 * I appreciate that you cut down the draft significantly. I would put the Daily Mail back in as it was your best source. Whoever told you to take it out was wrong, in my opinion. Also, our guideline on external links doesn't just mandate that links are 3rd party but has long lists of what links are permitted, might be permitted, or are not permitted. You should read those, too. Wikipedia can be a complicated place with a lot of rules and although many new editors start by writing a new article, it almost always ends badly.
 * It often happens that both amateurs and professionals in almost any field get upset when someone or something they think is important isn't considered notable on Wikipedia. We get professors that have written dozens of scholarly articles that don't meet WP:PROF and we refuse them. We get musicians that perform regularly at small venues but fail WP:MUSICBIO and we refuse them. We sometimes delete articles about non-notable journalists and those journalists write articles in their periodicals to complain about our notability criteria. Accordingly, we decline to accept an article about Tigran Tsitoghdyan. I think it's impressive that his work was featured on those magazines. The coverage he does have is in niche publications so since I'm not an art student I have no idea if those magazines really lend any credibility. They're not The New York Times. I'm a numismatist and the periodicals I read are The Numismatist and Bank Note Reporter. Both of those are only read by other hobbyists and neither has a Wikipedia article about it, so they won't impress general-interest Wikipedians. You have the same problem with Fjords Magazine and Visual Language Magazine. Also, notability is not inherited so it doesn't matter if Phillips Art Auctions is notable; what they auction doesn't automatically become notable, too.
 * The issue is that Tsitoghdyan doesn't yet meet our criteria; maybe someday he will. Wikipedia is in no rush so it's fine to wait several years for coverage to develop. You, however, are trying to get this article accepted because you have a stake in it. In any case, I'm not reviewing your draft again so I'm happy to left out of it. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 17:06, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

AfD
Hi. Thanks for the educated response in Nick Baird; I appreciate it. Nice to meet you. Regards. --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 22:08, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Creation Museum
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Trolling
It is not necessary or appreciated to troll user talk pages with warnings about citing sources literally within minutes of fresh edits. I was searching for the most authoritative source to cite when you left your note. You are welcome to look for your own sources if you wish to do something constructive for the article. Ketone16 (talk) 22:40, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't troll; ask anyone. Adding good content without also adding a source looks just the same on my watchlist as adding unsourced content, which I summarily revert. If you have a source, feel free to revert me and add your source. In fact, I'm curious why you'd add any content at all if you're not sure which source(s) you're using to substantiate it. You can't just add what you think is right and then go searching for a reliable source to back it up. You find the source first and then add the content. You've been editing Wikipedia intermittently for a long time so I don't see why we're having this conversation. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 22:56, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
 * There is no rule that says you find the source first and then add the content; what matters is that the source gets cited in the end. It is not appropriate to interrupt someone's work process mid-flow.  I added a stub edit and was adding more information when you reverted my edits.  I am not at all unsure about my source.  My source was a book on Armenian history I found online, but since Armenia was not a party to the treaty, I was looking around for a better source, preferably something contemporaneous with the treaty.  I could not access the book's references directly in the online preview I was viewing, so I had to search around.  I stress, however, that the book is a reliable source and I was planning on citing it if I couldn't find a better source.  It is my opinion that immediate summary reverts of uncontroversial material are not productive for Wikipedia, in addition to being rude on a personal level.  Sometimes people are editing in a flow, and even those who do post unsourced material as a matter of habit are not necessarily harming Wikipedia.  I'd rather have someone make an unsourced edit (as long as it is not dubious or non-NPOV) and then find and add a source later myself (as I frequently do) than have information never make it into less-frequently-edited articles at all.  It's more valuable to Wikipedia (and polite) to add a challenge tag or open a discussion on the talk page than simply to revert an uncontroversial unsourced edit, particularly when the revert comes minutes after the original edit (and without considering the editor's previous history).  Immediate summary reverts of uncontroversial information have a destructive effect on Wikipedia because they discourage editing.  There are more constructive ways of ensuring the information on Wikipedia is reliable.  And I do consider leaving warnings about citing sources on people's talk pages to be trolling, unless the person is a habitual abuser.  Ketone16 (talk) 23:18, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Your help on Draft:Underrail
Hey, thanks for your help on Draft:Underrail! You found and fixed exactly the kind of errors I was worried about. However, I'm not sure why you removed the references to credits as original research. The documentation for cite video game uses citing staff credits as an example and many video game articles do that, so I've restored those references using that template. - 91.157.57.222 (talk) 21:05, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I guess you're right. If that's a norm for WikiProject Video Games then I'll defer to them; I tend to remove primary sources like those when I see them. No problem making those edits for you, either. Sometimes it's far easier to just do it yourself than it is to explain step-by-step what the problem is. If you've come to like editing Wikipedia, consider registering your own account so the community can interact with you personally rather than whomever uses the IP you happen to work from. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 21:17, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the invitation, but I've been sparsely editing wikipedia for nearly a decade from whatever ISP/IP I have at the moment and that's not going to change. :) - 91.157.57.222 (talk) 21:25, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

WikiCup 2014 August newsletter
The final of the 2014 WikiCup begins in a few short minutes! Our eight finalists are listed below, along with their placement in Round 4:


 * , a WikiCup newcomer, finished top of Pool A and was the round's highest scorer. Godot is a featured picture specialist, claiming large numbers of points due to high-quality scans of historical documents, especially banknotes.
 * 1) is a WikiCup veteran, having been a finalist every year since 2010. In the semi-final, he was Pool B's highest scorer. Cas's points primarily come from articles on the natural sciences.
 * 2) was Pool A's runner-up. Czar's points come mostly from content related to independent video games, including both articles and topics.
 * 3) was Pool B's runner-up. Another featured picture specialist, many of Adam's points come from the restoration of historical media. He has been a WikiCup finalist twice before.
 * 4) won the WikiCup in 2012 and 2013, and enters this final as the first wildcard. She focuses on biology-related articles, and has worked on several high-importance articles.
 * 5) is the second wildcard. George's points come primarily from meteorology-related articles. This year and last year, George was the first person in the competition to score.
 * , the third wildcard, was the 2010 champion and a finalist last year. His writes mostly on military history, especially naval history.
 * , the fourth and final wildcard, has participated in previous WikiCups, but not reached any finals. Bloom's points are mostly thanks to did you knows, featured lists and good articles related to sport and national symbols.

We say goodbye to this year's semi-finalists. ,, , , , and  have all performed well to reach this stage of the competition, and we hope they will all be joining us again next year.

There are two upcoming competitions unrelated to the WikiCup which may be of interest to those who receive this newsletter. The Stub Contest will run through September, and revolves around expanding stub articles, especially high-importance or old stubs. In addition, a proposal has been made for a new competition, the GA Cup, which the organisers plan to run next year. This competition is based on the WikiCup and aims to reduce the good article review backlog.

There is now a thread for brainstorming on how next year's WikiCup competition should work. Please come along and share your thoughts- What works? What doesn't work? What needs changing? Signups for next year's competition will be open soon; we will be in touch. If, at this stage of the competition, you are keen to help the with the WikiCup, please do what you can to participate in review processes. Our finalists will find things much easier if the backlogs at good article candidates, featured article candidates, featured picture candidates and the rest are kept at a minimum. As ever, questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. and 22:09, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Joseph Janus Article
Hey Chris, Thank you for taking the time to review my article. It is for my boss (Joseph Janus). I was just hoping to get a little more detail as posting on here is completely new to me. This was given to me by Joseph so I can definitely go back and check his references, but other than that how can I fix things like promotional sounding voice? Once again thank you for all the help. LaurenSullygirl (talk) 20:15, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Here are some examples:


 * 1) "Janus also created the luxury handbag line Bodhi, with distribution in top retailers such as Fred Segal, Nordstrom, Neiman Marcus, Macy’s, Bloomingdales." So who says Bodhi is a luxury line? It's just as well to say he created Bodhi handbags. Why call all those stores "top retailers"? They're stores. There are already articles about them so just link to them and leave it alone.
 * 2) "Using the same market savvy he developed in the fashion industry, Janus created Fearless Management to manage music artists, assemble groups and produce and write music." Who says Janus has market savvy? Why explain about managing, assembling, and writing? Just say he created Fearless Management. This sentences isn't neutral and anything you say really needs to be sourced.
 * 3) "Collecting donations from Fiji Water, Altoids and Café Bustello. Their charitable efforts combined will help fund green initiatives around the globe." I know people in your industry love name-dropping but it's a logical fallacy born of a desire for self-promotion. Janus created a charity; leave it at that.
 * I understand your situation: writing to help your boss's PR effort. I also appreciate your patience in working through the Articles for Creation process. Be advised that the changes needed to get this article acceptable for Wikipedia may make it unacceptable to your boss. Also, you still have to make a case for notablity and you're far from it right now. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 01:27, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Hey Chris, I completely understand, I have been going through and making all the statements neutral and re-writing most of this article. Once again your help is greatly appreciated. I, hopefully, will be able to send you something much more acceptable in the near future.

Hey Chris, Is this any better? Joseph Janus (born March 30, 1969) is the CEO for WeSC - WeAreTheSuperlative Conspiracy(1,2,3,4,5,) - And former advertising and marketing SVP of Calvin Klein and Creative Director of Bodhi ( 6,7,8,9,20). While at Calvin Klein, he was responsible for launching new brand extensions in fragrance, fashion and accessories including Calvin Klein Jeans, underwear, handbags and CK one. Janus also created the handbag line Bodhi, with distribution in many retailers and expanded the Bodhi brand to include both men's and Tech collections(10,11,20).Janus is also a song writer and CEO and President of Fearless Management and Productions home to such Musicians as Ben Jelen(12,13,14,15).

Contents Early career Joseph Janus has over 20 years of experience working in the fashion industry as a creative and design director. He gained early attention in Los Angeles by reviving the JNCO Jean Company. Janus worked with an “in-house group of illustrators, clothing designers, graffiti artists and promotion experts that serve as an ad hoc ad team to ensure the look and feel of advertising will be anything but traditional.”(16) “‘The key to success, he notes, is to make a product that helps kids feel good about themselves.’”(17). In 1997, Advertising Age Magazine named him in “The Marketing 100".(17)

Joseph Janus’ success attracted the attention of Designer Calvin Klein himself, who personally recruited Janus to direct the advertising and marketing department. While at Calvin Klein, Janus launched various brand extensions for the brand.(6, 8,) Music Janus created Fearless Management to manage music artists, assemble groups and produce and write music. His first two records were on Madonna’s Maverick Records(12). Janus went on to sign singer-songwriter and humanitarian Ben Jelen to Linda Perry’s Custard records. Janus and Jelen collaborated to develop a charity titled “The Ben Jelen Foundation” to help create a greener earth. Collecting donations from brands like Altoids and Replay Jeans(22). Their charitable efforts combined will help fund green initiatives around the globe. Fashion Bodhi bags were picked up by retailers: Fred Segal, Nordstrom, and Bloomingdale’s. Bodhi also spread to established retailers abroad. With the success of the women’s line, Janus expanded the Bodhi brand to include both men’s and travel collections(10). Bodhi also produced a limited edition of animal friendly bags, shared at a charity event by the North Shore Animal League America and Beth Ostrosky Stern (18). He currently is the CEO of WeSC America Inc, located in SoHo New York(21). Joseph Janus News

1 http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/wesc-relaunches-us-distribution-terminates-license-agreement-and-names-joseph-janus-ceo-of-wesc-america-inc-234254211.html

2 http://www.wwd.com/menswear-news/sportswear/wesc-bolstering-us-business-7295588

3 http://finance.yahoo.com/photos/wesc-relaunches-us-distribution-terminates-photo-171800811.html

4http://www.sbcbusiness.com/news-detail?news_id=2681

5 http://www.retaildive.com/press-release/20130626-wesc-launches-cymbal-headphone-in-apple-stores/

6 http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/article/SF-GATE-INTERVIEW-Brief-Encounter-Underwear-3240120.php

7 http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20080414006298/en/CELINE-SA-Jen-USA-Reach-Agreement-Jen#.UvLwBXlerIw

8 http://pagesix.com/2010/05/23/birkin-author-back-in-the-handbag-biz/

9 http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2004-04-18-jelen_x.htm

10 http://tabtimes.com/news/ittech-accessories/2012/10/05/apple-tote-bag-will-retail-300

11 http://newsle.com/article/0/39300057/

12 http://www.billboard.com/artist/281209/ben-jelen/biography

13 http://www.allmusic.com/artist/joseph-janus-mn0001858108

14 http://www.artistdirect.com/artist/bio/joseph-janus/2770038

15 https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/ben-jelen/id5133033

16 http://newsle.com/article/0/100889317/

17 http://adage.com/article/news/marketing-100-jnco-joseph-janus/65355/

18 http://www.animalleague.org/events-news/press-center/bodhi-bags-to-benefit-nsala.html

19 http://news.yahoo.com/photos/2nd-annual-amfar-inspiration-gala-20110614-183854-541.html

20 http://www.bloginity.com/2011/06/james-franco-amfar/

21http://globenewswire.com/news-release/2013/11/28/593124/0/sv/WeSC-tar-%C3%B6ver-distributionen-p%C3%A5-USA-marknaden.html

22 http://sideways-media.com/ben-jelen/

As always, thank you for your help and time. ThanksLaurenSullygirl (talk) 13:57, 3 September 2014 (UTC) LaurenSullygirl (talk) 20:19, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * So let's address the sourcing. There are three groups: sources that are reliable, the ones that are not, and the ones that are unclear and sit somewhere in the middle.
 * Advertising Age, Billboard, USA Today, Women's Wear Daily, Yahoo news, San Francisco Chronicle and possibly Pagesix.com are ok.
 * PRNewswire and the like is specifically forbidden. AllMusic can't be used as a source. All the others are questionable at best. I recommend cutting all the unreliable and questionable sources and the content supported by them exclusively.
 * You did a much better job on verbiage; I have no problem with the tone. I'd also recommend you make the changes on the draft and read WP:REFB to convert your endnotes into proper in-line citations. Because I've been involved in coaching you on this draft I won't be reviewing it. You can post at the help desk again when you've made the changes I've described. If I were a smarter man, I'd be charging money for this advice. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 22:52, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Gail Boggs
Hello! Your submission of Gail Boggs at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 23:43, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Macedonia (ancient kingdom)
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Talkback
Writing Enthusiast ☎ 03:33, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Gail Boggs
— HJ Mitchell &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?  00:02, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

16:25:09, 10 September 2014 review of submission by 69.71.193.130
How can I get reliable sources when the information in the article was generated by me as an original source? This information isn't published anywhere, like a book or website. In this case I reworded the synopsis, but the first section I wrote myself.

69.71.193.130 (talk) 16:25, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry but original research doesn't belong on Wikipedia. We're not a webhosting service. You can simply abandon your draft or ask for it to be deleted. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 20:38, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry to jump in here uninvinted, but there are actually sources for A Leading Man such as IMDB. It can be improved. Snood1205 (talk) 20:41, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I welcome talk page stalkers. Remember, Imdb isn't a reliable source. You can use sources like this article from The Hollywood Reporter. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 20:55, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Yet another LA meet-up!
Hi Chris! I just found out that Simone Montemurno (who you saw on Saturday) is organizing a Wikipedia editing session this coming Tuesday. Since I've sent too many messages lately (and soon will be sending another message for October events), I'm not doing a super huge spam effort for the event, but I figured I'd call it to your attention! Info here if you'd like to join! Calliopejen1 (talk) 21:52, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

ANB discussion
There is a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Archive265 that concerns you because you were recently involved with one or more of the related Articles for deletion/History of the Jews in Nepal, Deletion review/Log/2014 June 30 (History of the Jews in Nepal), Talk:History of the Jews in Nepal. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 07:55, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

September 2014
I unlinked a a redlink from "Quranism" to "Gibril Haddad" because the "Gibril Haddad" page was deleted to due a lack of notability. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.162.189.88 (talk) 00:07, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Sure. That red-link doesn't have to remain but as I indicated on your talk page, redlinks help editors assess demand for articles. I'm not familiar with the AfD for Gibril Haddad and you're probably right that he's not notable. However, leaving a red link does no harm to the article and I'd recommend you at least use an appropriate edit summary to indicate to editors like me on the hunt for vandalism. Remove the link if you like; I won't revert it again. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 00:27, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Request on 09:38:33, 11 September 2014 for assistance on AfC submission by Olamikhx
Hi Chris, Thanks for your recent comment on my article for creation (Kenna Partners), I will be working on the article by adding more independent sources to support the notability of the article. my initial thought was that the Newspapers I cited are enough to give credibility and notability to the article.

Government publications mentioning the article are not available online for now hence why I didn't use such.

Thanks for your time and I hope the decline tag will be removed once I make your noted corrections.

Olamikhx (talk) 09:38, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Sources don't have to be online to be used. Also, WikiProject Articles for Creation doesn't remove declination templates; those templates stay on the draft and stack up until the draft has been accepted. This is done so reviewers know which issues with the draft have already been addressed; those templates don't affect if your draft is accepted later on, so don't remove them.
 * As for your existing sources, I'm not familiar with the newspapers you've listed so I can't determine their importance. "CAC Certificate of Incorporation" appears to be an unpublished primary source document, so it can't be used as a source. Again, I have to be able to verify your sources.

Chris Troutman ( talk ) 17:00, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your prompt response. All the newspapers I cited are notable and credible media in Nigeria with both paper copy & e-copy publications, I hope this add credibility to my sources. CAC is the main body for company registration in Nigeria and certificate of registration is issued after a rigorous verification. All registered company can be verify through a written request by quoting the registration number of such company. Hence it is illegal to quote a company as registered under CAC when such registration does not exist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Olamikhx (talk • contribs)
 * How would someone verify a CAC registration? How would I verify the sources you've listed? I can't simply take your word for it. Unfortunately, English-Wikipedia doesn't seem to have discussion of your sources so I don't know where to start investigating it and I'm not that interested in chasing it down only so your draft can be accepted. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 17:35, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Hunt
So who is Richard M. Hunt? I presume not the architect. DuncanHill (talk) 21:33, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
 * He was an historian, specializing in European history. He taught at Harvard for many years and eventually served as the University's Marshal. The sentence is worded that way because it's his concept, not the idea of an amorphous "some people". I guess you think Hunt's statement has to be qualified for the reader; I prefer the reader to go to JSTOR and read the Dr. Hunt's article.  Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 22:09, 30 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I prefer that the reader is able to get at least some context from the article itself - the original wording, to which I appended the "who?" tag was unhelpful to say the least. We should not assume that our readers will have read the references before reading the article to get an idea as to who someone is. Do you have a link to the article that could be added to the reference? Preferably not to JSTOR as most readers will not have access (and I just searched for it on JSTOR and it does not appear to be there). DuncanHill (talk) 22:18, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I'll look into it this weekend and try to find the original text, although I'm not clear what you want explicated, Dr. Hunt's article or who he was? Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 22:26, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Well it was the who he was that attracted me initially, but it would be nice to read the article. Virginia Quarterly Review isn't on JSTOR at all. Thanks for looking into it. DuncanHill (talk) 22:30, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Just as a by-the-by, his time at Harvard overlapped with my uncle's time as Dean of Students - small world! DuncanHill (talk) 22:47, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I have added a URL and a quote at Stab-in-the-back myth for that source. I hope that works for you. I'll be developing an article about Hunt but it may be several weeks before I have that together. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 04:44, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks - unfortunately I don't have ProQuest access, but it's good to have the link anyway for those who do. Looking forward to the Hunt article! DuncanHill (talk) 06:22, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Macedonia (ancient kingdom)
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List of banned users MfD
Hi Chris. Thanks for taking the time to comment on the proposals for change at the list of banned users. It's clear that there's sufficient support that a deletion will not be SNOW closed, so I've listed it at MfD - Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:List of banned users (6th nomination). I thought it appropriate to keep you informed. Worm TT( talk ) 09:53, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Precious again
  cleanup

Thank you for quality articles such as Rudy Boesch, for and making the small, - you are an awesome Wikipedian! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:05, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:05, 17 September 2013 (UTC) A year ago, you were the 607th recipient of my  Pumpkin Sky Prize, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:56, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for the reminder of that award. I proudly display the PumpkinSky ribbon on my userpage alongside my other awards. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 21:28, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

10:14:43, 17 September 2014 review of submission by Handbaglover101
Dear Mr Troutman,

I'm confused as to why my submission was rejected under the premise that much of the information does not pertain to the company. All the information relates to a project the company has undertaken and is very much in the style of comparative articles on other designers.

The suggestion that the article on the person Luke Hughes could be expanded is valid but much of the information on that article does not pertain to him as a man as much of the projects are completed by his company under a raft of other designers.

Please could you suggest ways in which I can alter the article to more closely resemble the guidelines of wikipedia.

Many thanks,

Christine

Handbaglover101 (talk) 10:14, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
 * First, in some sources (like this) I find the individual indistinguishable from the company. Second, you use many citations (like this) that say absolutely nothing about the company. Once you strip out all of those sources along with the sources that aren't independent and reliable you have essentially nothing left. I think it would make more sense to build a section about the eponymous company in the existing article about the man. As the content develops, you can use that section to start a new article.
 * I caution you not to use other articles as a guide. Much of the content on Wikipedia is problematic, at best. When looking at Wikipedia articles, look at their grade (found on the article's talk page). If an article is rated "B," "Good," "A," or "FA" then they serve as a fair example. Otherwise, I'd ignore them. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 03:46, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Will Eisner
I didn't make a "test edit." Your reversion introduced a punctuation error: You have double quote marks marks within double quotes.

In a passage in quote marks (double quotes), anything in quote marks within the passage should be in single quotes.

I don't want to get in an edit war, so would you please look this up in a book of grammar if you don't believe me and fix it? The reason you don't see the whole passage's double quotes in edit mode is because the template's quote field generates them automatically: Look at it on the live site, and you'll see the two erroneous sets of double quotes. --209.122.114.237 (talk) 13:27, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for letting me know. Had you used an edit summary when you made your edit I might have discussed it rather than revert it. Regardless. Wikipedia doesn't go by "a book of grammar;" Wikipedia (per MOS:QUOTES) allows quotes within quotes. I italicized that publication title, although the source doesn't, to placate your concerns. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 15:34, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Harry Scott Smith
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:48, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:South African Republic
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WikiProject Military history coordinator election
Greetings from WikiProject Military history! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual project coordinator election, which will determine our coordinators for the next twelve months. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the election page by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September! Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 22:06, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

14:06:57, 24 September 2014 review of submission by 216.8.167.64
216.8.167.64 (talk) 14:06, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Troutman

I have edited my submission with complete references. I made sure to follow your guidelines from our last talk.

Furthermore, I have been awaiting for the approval of my submission for over a month, and I am seeing the amount of articles for verification before me increase on some days, rather than decrease.

I was wondering if there was anyway that you would be so kind as to help me speed up the verification process!

I understand that this may not be possible, however, I figured that you were the right person to ask.

Thanks Mr. Troutman!

Alpha Huynh
 * ✅ Submissions are reviewed randomly; there is no queue for review. The number of backlogged submissions has gone up because most of the drafts are promotional articles like yours and encyclopedists get burned out telling people no.
 * Of course, I'm the right person to ask. I was able to accept your draft, although I had to do some cleanup. Please remember that ideal articles are neutral and boring and we have a manual of style that also has to be followed. Do not re-insert the promotional foolishness that I removed. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 16:57, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Help Please with Article opinion
Hello Chris,

I have left a message at the Village pump on my article here Teahouse/Questions on the Article I have drafted on my page here User:DmitryPopovRU/Alex_Gilbert and currently waiting for review here Draft:Alex Gilbert. The issue is that this page has been made in the past but due to not enough sources at the time it was nominated for deletion. I have found more sources as you can see on the Village Pump question I left and I want to know from someone like you if you agree that this article is notable to be moved to Alex Gilbert or that I should work on it more first, though I do believe the 3 reliable sources that are on there make this article ready. Thanks heaps for your time.

Dmitry, --DmitryPopovRU (talk) 06:36, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't think anything has changed since the last deletion. Your draft relies on the subject's website, IMDB, and other non-reliable sources. The two articles from The New Zealand Herald aren't enough to establish notability. There isn't a "magic number" of sources which are enough, it's up to the reviewer. If you cut the entire article down to only include content from reliable sources you might stand a better chance. As it is, this draft looks like a promotional attempt with a mere fig leaf of sourcing. Furthermore, those reliable sources really only speak to the single adoption story. Like the deletion of Belle Knox, even dozens of articles about one event is still just one event. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 17:54, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your help Chris, but I think you also missed the link here - http://tvnz.co.nz/sunday/s2014-ep1-video-5821764 that shows clear notability. This being the biggest TV Network in NZ and also on the most watched TV Channel in NZ. TV One (New Zealand) Thank You, Dmitry --DmitryPopovRU (talk) 18:18, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Again, I made that point about one event. The video is entitled "Alex Gilbert goes to Russia looking to find his birth parents". It's the same story of a Russian child adopted in New Zealand. There's nothing new there, though it was on a news magazine program. (I can't view the video as I live in the US.) Since Gilbert doesn't pass our criteria specific for people in TV/movie production, he would have to pass general notability on more than one aspect. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 18:57, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Blast message re UC Irvine WLL event
Hi Chris, it's looking like there will be another Wik-Ed women event on 10/7 so I'll be sending out a talkpage blast message probably this weekend for that. Can I tack on a message about your event, and if so, is there anything in particular you'd like me to say about it? Also, re the fish class project I told you about-- see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Fishes/Archive_3, Education_noticeboard/Incidents/Archive 2, User:Calliopejen1/to do/Fish article cleanup. Probably would make sense to look at the pre-editing versions of a handful of fish articles to get the general issues. On a totally unrelated note, I stumbled across Education_noticeboard/Incidents while I was digging up those links, which might also be of interest to you! Calliopejen1 (talk) 21:20, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
 * In regards to the links, I'll start chasing down those responsible. For my UCR edit-a-thon you could post something to the effect of: "There's also an upcoming edit-a-thon at UC Riverside. Join students and faculty learning how to edit!" Thanks Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 01:40, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 25
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DYK for John W. Olmsted
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:03, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Alfred M. Boyce
Thank you from the DYK project and the wiki Victuallers (talk) 12:04, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

WikiCup 2014 September newsletter
In one month's time, we will know our WikiCup 2014 champion. Newcomer has taken a strong lead with a featured list (historical coats of arms of the U.S. states from 1876) and a raft of featured pictures. Reigning champion is in second place with a number of high-importance biology articles, including new FA Isopoda and new GA least weasel. , who is in his fifth WikiCup final, is in third, with featured articles Pictor and Epacris impressa.

Signups for the 2015 WikiCup are open. All Wikipedians, new and experienced, are warmly invited to sign up for the competition. Wikipedians interested in friendly competition may also like to sign up for the GA Cup, a new WikiCup-inspired competition which revolves around completing good article reviews. As ever, questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. and 22:11, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Hungarian conquest of the Carpathian Basin
Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Hungarian conquest of the Carpathian Basin. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:00, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Misuse of template warnings
You recently templated me and accused me of not assuming good faith. That is an inappropriate use of the templating system. First of all, refrain from templating regulars. Second of all, there is no need for me to assume good faith when it comes to sock and meat puppets. Third of all, a coordinated canvassing campaign was occurring on AfD, which is indicative of bad faith. Since you obviously don't understand what "assume good faith" means, given the fact that you gave me a template warning in a situation that did not demand good faith, I suggest you review the guideline to correct your error. Viriditas (talk) 02:36, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
 * First, I template regulars. Boilerplate doesn't run the risk of being offensive when upbraiding users. Second, you do need to assume good faith. Yes, I recognize there are several new accounts and probably some socks participating in that discussion. I've been mulling over requesting an investigation to stop this misuse. However, I'm one of those keep voters and I'm neither a sockpuppet nor a meatpuppet. (For the record, I live in Los Angeles; far from the Heartland.)
 * You deserve a reprimand for spouting . While I'm familiar with this sentiment, I'm disappointed that you bring this sort of attitude to Wikipedia. I would assume after 10 years you would know better. I was generous in only pointing out your AGF problem; if you're connoting this statement to me then it's a personal attack. The best thing for you to do is to strike out those comments and stop contributing on pages where your personal beliefs cloud your objectivity. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 03:06, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Chris, I'm getting the sense from your comments that you really didn't understand anything I wrote. For example, "Heartland" does not refer to a place in context, it refers to a thing.  From the Signpost:
 * "In September, Sean Davis, co-founder of The Federalist, a year-old collective of conservative political opinion bloggers, launched a series of attacks on Tyson, later adding Wikipedia to his targets. Physics Today discusses the background of The Federalist, noting that the website's other co-founder and publisher was Ben Domenech, a senior fellow at the Heartland Institute, a conservative think tank at the forefront of promoting climate change denial."
 * There's a lot of little things like that you missed in my comments. As a result, you came away with an interpretation that has nothing to do with what I wrote. I could go down the line, correcting your comments, but I'm afraid I'm pressed for time in the real world right now. Viriditas (talk) 03:51, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I misread one thing you wrote and no amount of explanation could possibly cover the rest of your diatribe. If you make another personal attack it's going to be another template on your user page and a visit to a discussion board. Maybe you should take a break from Wikipedia. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 04:15, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Chris, it's much more than you misreading one thing. For example, I corrected you on your AGF allegation above, and now I'll correct you on your allegation that I've made a personal attack.  I didn't and I haven't, and I suggest you go back and read NPA.  The fact of the matter is that you are projecting your own personal beliefs into what I wrote and attacking your own misconception.  Wikipedia is being used by external groups to wage a culture war.  I don't have to lie down and accept it like you are, and I won't. Viriditas (talk) 05:29, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Save your rhetorical flourish for the weak-minded; you've haven't corrected me on anything. You say you meant Heartland Institute instead of the Heartland. Fine, I'll assume good faith. There's no way you can excuse saying "I should also like to point out that the discussion up above and its associated attack on Tyson, as well as on reason (the real reason, not the fake Koch variety) is a great example of yet-another Heartland-sponsored manufactured controversy that the Koch-funded, conservative noise machine engages in on a daily basis. These warriors for ignorance are the equivalent of intellectual terrorists, whose values and moral system of beliefs is indistinguishable from the anti-science and anti-human values of al-Qaeda and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant". Either you mean that to apply all keep voters like me or you are specifically targeting the apparent meat puppets. Either way, that's a personal attack and it's definitely not "assuming good faith." You're already getting heat from other editors who are questioning if you actually believe that or are trying to indirectly malign the motivations of delete voters. There's no way you can explain that. I mean, "intellectual terrorists?" Really? That's boldface ad hominem.
 * Keep talking so Wikipedia has enough rope for your going-away party. You seem to think you can provoke and get away with it and I'm here to tell you that's a bad idea. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 15:04, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Chris, the only problem here is your own. Your own misinterpretations and misunderstandings have been pointed out to you again and again, and you've failed to take responsibility or to correct them, instead blaming them on other people.  For example, the Heartland Institute was already under discussion in the AfD several days before I commented, and at the same time, on the Signpost.  So the context of my usage of "Heartland" can only refer to the Institute, not to a geographical location.  Instead of admitting your error, you attempted to shift the burden, claiming that you would AGF that I "meant" a different Heartland.  Meanwhile, the entire context of the discussion shows otherwise, so you've failed once again to take responsibility for your own mistakes.  If you were the least interested in understanding your error, you would notice that the term "Heartland-sponsored manufactured controversy that the Koch-funded" can only refer to the Institute, as our own Wikipedia article on the subject, discusses how the Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation funds Heartland.  Chris, there is no excuse for your response, so I must conclude that the problem here is your own reading comprehension difficulties, not my comments. Viriditas (talk) 01:23, 2 October 2014 (UTC)