User talk:ChristophD81/Suminter India Organics

My take on Suminter India Organics
Here's what I've changed, just so I can see if there's an article under all this:


 * Removed the link to http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS133105+08-May-2009+BW20090508, as it doesn't mention the company.
 * Merged the multiple references to dare.co.in into one.
 * Deleted any see-also article that was already referenced in the article.
 * Removed the company from External links, as it's already in the infobox.
 * Removed the reference to http://www.organicconsumers.org/organic/070603_organic.cfm, as it doesn't mention the company.
 * Removed several instances of over-wikilinking.
 * Changed references from "Sameer" to "Mehra" per WP:MOS
 * The links http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News_By_Industry/Banking_Finance_/Nexus_India_invests_in_organic_farming_company_Suminter/articleshow/2866017.cms and http://www.financialexpress.com/news/Nexus-India-invests-in-Suminter/284424/ are to the same article, so it makes no sense to use both as a reference
 * The page at http://www.fairtradenap.net/suminter-gujarat-sustainable-and-organic-farmers-association/ is just a database, and so is not a reliable source
 * Changed categories to be non-linking, per WP:MOS while they're in user space
 * The link at http://www.financialexpress.com/news/suminters-sameer-mehra-is-welcomed-as-endeavor-indias-first-highimpact-entrepreneur/326906/ appears to solely be a reprint of a press release
 * The link at http://www.sankalpforum.com/Sankalp_awardees.pdf is just to a PDF on a company site and doesn't tell us anything new

Overall:
 * The article at dare.co.in (1) is the basis for 90% of the article, and (2) doesn't appear to be much more than a blog post—and as such, it doesn't count as a reliable source. I've highlighted the parts of the article that are unsourced in yellow.
 * Not all the awards are notable by WP's standards; I've highlighted the ones that could be cut in blue.

End result: there's just not an article here once you take out everything that's highlighted—which is what I've been saying all along. Dori ❦ (Talk ❖ Contribs ❖ Review) ❦ 04:46, 25 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Dori:
 * I disagree with your evaluation of Dare as a blog post. Dare is a real magazine, and I'd be more than happy to send you a photo of the actual article in the magazine. Arranging for that right now.
 * There is a new article about Suminter coming up in the Indian magazine Outlook Business, to be published in paper Sep 5. This adds to the points made in the Dare article and substantiates the following claims:
 * Suminter is a supplier of organic food and cotton
 * Suminter was founded in 2004 (my company sources say 2003, but all articles say 2004; I'm fine with whatever the majority of the sources say)
 * Updated numbers: 50,000 acres, 10,000 farmers (this is the newest article, thus the numbers are higher than in Dare)
 * Fully integrated business model: Suminter works with the farmers and then processes and sells products to supplier to grocery chains.
 * More on the funding story: how S. Mehra raised the first funds, who is was working with to set things up
 * More on the social part: the Gujarat Sustainable Organic Farmer's Association (GSOFA) as the distributing NGO of the Fair Trade premiums.
 * The other claims are substantiated through external sources:
 * Suminter is privately held. This is substantiated by the Nexus press release that is reprinted x times.
 * Organic food market sizes: these can obviously only be substantiated by external sources that will not mention Suminter.
 * ChristophD81 (talk) 06:53, 25 August 2009 (UTC)


 * My perception of what's going on here:
 * You are friends with people at Suminter, or they're a client of yours, or you're a client of theirs. Whichever it is, you have a relationship with them that probably violates WP:COI, which is why you've never edited anything else on WP (see also WP:SPA).
 * I'm not particularly interested in this topic in general.
 * You've asked me to look at your proposed version of the article. However, most likely due to point #1, you aren't actually listening to the advice I'm giving on how to improve it; instead, you want to defend putting things in that I think aren't encyclopedic.
 * From the beginning, I said that I didn't think that the company qualified under WP:CORP. I haven't seen anything yet that's changed my mind.
 * Given points 2, 3, & 4, I'm now thoroughly disinterested in helping any further with this—why bother, when I don't even think it should be an article? Consequently, please don't bother sending me a picture or photo or whatever. At this point, it's clear to me that neither of us is particularly interested in what the other has to say.
 * If at some later point you decide you want to join us in building an encyclopedia, and there's anything non-Suminter related that I can help with, please don't hesitate to ask. Dori ❦ (Talk ❖ Contribs ❖ Review) ❦ 02:57, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The first assertion under your point one is correct. I am involved with Suminter, and in general I have an interest in organic food. I believe the company does a really good job helping farmers in India, and that's why I believed they are notable. I have never edited anything on WP before, but would like to do so now. I am completely new, and given my interest in organic food, the only thing I can add right now is about how the organic market works in the US. I started with a single number and are planning to expand on that. However, I am frustrated with the amount of pushback I am getting on the Suminter article. I am really trying hard to show that the company is notable despite my COI. I truly believe it is, and I am looking for sources every day to convince you and other WP contributors that it is not just me who thinks that Suminter is noteworthy. I still believe there has been significant news media coverage, and that's why I believe there should be a WP article about it.


 * Your conclusion under point 1 is not correct. I am entering the WP landscape and this article is my first motivation to do so.


 * Point 2 doesn't have anything to do with whether Suminter is noteworthy or not.


 * Point 3: I believe that the things mentioned in the article are facts, and I am trying to find reliable sources to substantiate these factual claims. I do not see how a COI with the subject would impact the mentioning of facts. Opinions would obviously be tainted, but I am not seeing too many opinions in that article anyways.


 * I would greatly appreciate to continue the debate whether the article meets the notability guidelines. As I said earlier, having and declaring a COI doesn't have anything to do with whether the subject of the article is noteworthy if there are reliable sources covering the subject in depth. I understand that you may not be familiar with the newspaper and magazine landscape in India. This is fine. Wikipedia is not a US-only website where anything foreign must pass a higher bar.

ChristophD81 (talk) 09:00, 28 August 2009 (UTC)