User talk:Cindamuse/Archive 30

The Signpost: 12 November 2012

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Polaris Project
Cindamuse - Thanks for the kind message. I've actually edited Wikipedia before using my personal account and participated in a "How to Edit Wikipedia" BOF session at the Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing, but for transparency and to make it easier to flag the potential conflict of interest, used my work email to make a new account. So, errors I may have introduced, but they were not from lack of experience. I know there are different opinions on how potential conflict of interest should be managed in the community, and I'm obviously of the opinion that an article's content must be neutral, not necessarily its editors. Given that the reverted version includes several substantive errors now (Polaris Project has 6 national programs, not 3; TTASP has not been the acronym for Polaris Project's training program since 2009; the History section indicates Polaris Project does work in Japan, which it no longer does) and, until yesterday, there had been no edits since 02/12, I would prefer to correct the page. If anything I post is unneutral, I want and expect it to be criticized, edited or removed, and I will happily engage in those discussions. If there's something major I'm missing, please let me know on my talk page or respond here. Jdickinsongoodman (talk) 14:30, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Jessica! Nice to hear from you. Is Jdickinsongoodman not your personal account? I'm not sure I understand. This account appears to be a personal account. I went ahead and made some of the changes you've indicated here. As you may have noticed, I've also reverted the most recent changes you made with the section headings and initial caps. You can see the guidelines here. The majority of the content that I removed yesterday was due to the copyright violation. Please go ahead and feel free to donate the content through official channels as outlined on your talk page. If you are unfamiliar with the process, I would be happy to work with you to do this. From a personal standpoint, the donation of materials from the website would help me in my own work here, since my primary interest is creating and developing articles about organizations and/or individuals working to address human trafficking. From a professional standpoint, I'm sorry to hear that Polaris is no longer in Japan. As far as the programs, it would be great to add the information about them, but we cannot use the website materials until they are donated. And if the tone is deemed promotional, the content needs to be edited. For now, I would recommend that you add any suggestions to the article's talk page at Talk:Polaris Project. I am more than happy to help. Best regards, Cindy  ( talk to me ) 01:50, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Cindamuse! Nope, Jdickinsongoodman is not my personal account. Is there a better way to show, for transparency's sake, that is an account of someone employed by Polaris Project? I'll go through and either donate the relevant text or re-write it as-needed. Next step is fixing Derek Ellerman, Bradley Myles, and Katherine Chon's pages, since they are intensely out of date. I think we share goals of making more accurate the way human trafficking is is discussed here. I'll post to Talk:Polaris Project if there are issues I think bear discussion.
 * Good morning! Happy to see you here! About your account and username, it is actually against Wikipedia's policy to edit from multiple accounts in the manner that you are suggesting. See (WP:SOCK). I have no reason to believe or suspect that you are using multiple accounts for anything nefarious, but it is certainly a slippery slope that others may question. You do not by any means need to indicate through your username that you are editing on behalf of an organization. It can actually result in a suspension or blocking of your account. I recommend choosing one account, preferably the oldest one, then linking the other accordingly. For the sake of transparency, you can simply post a comment on your userpage that states who you are and your interest in editing Wikipedia. And clearly disclose the conflict of interest. It is also important that you are here to edit beyond simply promoting Polaris Project. There is nothing wrong with expressing an interest in a particular area, such as human trafficking... just make sure not to use the project to publicize and promote awareness of a cause, individual, group or organization beyond the mission of the encyclopedia. It is important to remember that Wikipedia is not a means for promotion. It's not an extension or mirror of the Polaris Project website. I'm only telling you this because I don't want to see your editing privileges blocked. I'm actually excited to see you here. If you take a look at my workshop, you'll see that our interests overlap somewhat. I actually arrived at Wikipedia in the same manner that you have. I provide consulting work for organizations that address sexual exploitation and human trafficking. I now head up an organization that provides international and domestic resources for helping women escape from and transition out of trafficking situations, operating much like an underground railroad. The past couple of weeks, we rescued four women that were trafficked from Russia and working in a beauty salon that was a front for a sex trafficking ring. (I am an eighth generation abolitionist. My family has worked to abolish slavery in America in one form or another for over 200 years.) I would love to work with you in developing some of these articles. And I think you can see how donating materials from Polaris Project would be beneficial. Well, I'm working on the Carissa Phelps article, so I will get back to that. Let me know if you have any questions or need help with anything. Best regards, Cindy  ( talk to me ) 17:08, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

American Society for Metabolic & Bariatric Surgery 2
Cindamuse - I am concerned with the issues related to this article; the content removal is subjective and not founded. Simply referring to policy violations abstractly does not justify the removal of the content. You need to be specific with your determinations and explanation. The copyright issues have been resolved; do you feel otherwise? Moving on, specifically, can you comment on the content you determined may have been inappropriate due to a conflict of interest. At this point, I cannot find any objective reason for the removal of this content without specific understanding of your judgement. Please elaborate on your thoughts. Jrosterhout (talk) 06:14, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I found your comment in the middle of my talk page. When you start a new discussion, please make sure to start a new section. To what article are you referring? Best regards, Cindy  ( talk to me ) 06:25, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey there, after reviewing your contributions, I'm assuming that you are referring to the American Society for Metabolic & Bariatric Surgery. Your username also reflects the name of an employee of the organization. (Please see WP:COI) When editors provide links to policies and guidelines on Wikipedia, it is important for others to actually read them. It becomes a bit difficult for others to simply restate or rephrase information that has already been presented. Note that Wikipedia is not an extension of the organization's website. There are specific criteria that determines what remains and what is removed from the encyclopedia. For example, copyright violations. They were removed in accordance with policy. The removal was not subjective, but based... on policy. This is a legal issue that Wikipedia takes very seriously. The promotional content and leadership/employee roster was removed, as well. Honestly, this information is of no interest to anybody, outside of those closely associated with the organization. The content belongs on the organization's website and not in an encyclopedia. (See WP:NOT) If you are truly concerned with the issues related to this article, I would recommend addressing them accurately. The article is currently placed for deletion discussion. The proper response would be to work on establishing notability for the organization. This is done by providing a significant number of citations that are reliable and independent of the source. At this point, the article only offers two citations and those fail the criteria for (establishing) notability. Doesn't even come close. Cindy  ( talk to me ) 02:58, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

This Month in Education: November 2012
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Please comment on Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Ticker symbols in article leads
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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Infoboxes
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Career Development rewrite draft advice
Thanks for your helpful advice Cindamuse. Despite having a good look around for guidance on how to create a temp page I ended up erroneously as it turns out following the methodology for redrafting WP policy and guidance pages. Seems with the ever-increasing expansion of guidance on how to use WP it gets harder and harder, as one gets more and more experienced on using WP to find the precise nugget of info one is after. There must be a Law of WP increasing complexity and deminishing understanding coming into play here.Tmol42 (talk) 21:57, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Your editor review
Hi, Cindamuse. I've noticed a bit of a kerfuffel going on over at your editor review. Although it may seem a bit silly, and possibly counterproductive, let me know if you think the review needs semi-protection. See ya 'round  Tide  rolls  01:47, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I saw that! I asked for temporary semi-protection, before noticing that you blocked the IPs. I doubt at this point that it needs protecting. I'll let you know what happens after 31 hours. Thanks again! Cindy  ( talk to me ) 01:57, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I think the tempest has calmed. If things change, just ping my user talk; I'll be watching.  Tide  rolls  03:19, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Help out with Rape and pregnancy controversies in the 2012 United States elections?
Danger recommended you as an editor she respects, Here. I was wondering if you would help in continuing to develop. Rape and pregnancy controversies in the 2012 United States elections. My goal is to get it to good article status.Casprings (talk) 03:58, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * While I wish you well in developing the article, due to my professional and political background, others may question neutrality if the article were to be submitted to GAN. I actually came to Wikipedia several years ago, thinking that my background would be beneficial in bringing neutrality to articles about sexual assault, rape, pornography, human trafficking, and the sex industry. Some editors are aware of my real life identity and have sadly used it as a red flag to discredit my work on Wikipedia. In order to retain my enjoyment working with others here, I have chosen to focus on editing in different areas. While I work with law enforcement and state and federal politicians in addressing these concerns, I also have many very close friends that work in the sex and adult film industry. While I am confident that I can offer and present a healthy balance to these issues, it just becomes tedious when individuals advocating for liberal legislation clash with others advocating for conservative legislation. And when this happens, I have oftentimes been caught in the middle. It's not a pleasant place to be when advocates on both sides of the aisle are personal friends. Sorry that I am not able to offer much help here. Best regards, Cindy  ( talk to me ) 16:17, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks you anyway. Casprings (talk) 00:41, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Danielle Nierenberg
Hi there. I notice you have tagged the article on Danielle Nierenberg, and am I confused as to why this is. The sources used are from reputable publications and are not from her website.associated websites etc - could you advise on how to improve the sources? Your help would be very welcome, as I see you have quite a history on Wikipedia! JamieCW777 (talk) 17:16, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Jamie! Welcome to Wikipedia. I am more than happy to help. Getting started can be somewhat daunting at times, but know that your work is appreciated! The sources may be from reputable publications, but they are citations using the subject's own articles and employer's website. None of the articles offer significant coverage about the subject herself, but merely serve to show that she is employed as a journalist. While the profile on HuffPost and the Guardian offer some background about the subject, this content is merely promotional, self-published, and lacks independence. We need to find significant coverage (about the subject) that is reliable and independent of Nierenberg herself, her work, her employer, or affiliates. Our notability guideline for journalists can be found here. I'll keep an eye out for any additional content that can be added to the article to establish notability. Take a look at the notability guideline and let me know if you have questions or if something has been missed. Hope this helps. Cindy  ( talk to me ) 17:26, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Cindy -- thank you for you prompt reply! I will attempt to sort the sources out ASAP! Would it be possible for me to message you when I've done so and for you to see if they are okay? Many thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by JamieCW777 (talk • contribs) 17:28, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure! No problem. Best regards, Cindy  ( talk to me ) 17:31, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I've added/changed some references, trying to make them more neutral. Would you be ble to have a look when you have the time please? JamieCW777 (talk) 19:04, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, I looked at the changes. Unfortunately, they didn't really help. The Lavidalocavore.org and Monmouth sources are not independent since one is an interview and the other is her alumni report. The agri-pulse.com source is a press release, which we cannot use in any regard as a self-published source. What we need are citations using books, magazines, newspapers, journals, etc. in which the subject is not associated. Does this make sense? Cindy  ( talk to me ) 19:33, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I think I've sorted it! I've replaced the problems citations with independent articles from reputable publications! Would you be able to take a look again please? JamieCW777 (talk) 14:32, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 19 November 2012

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Please comment on Template talk:History of Hungary
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Speedy deletion nomination of Beacon Elementary School


A tag has been placed on Beacon Elementary School, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:

R2: Misplaced AfC submission

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If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. -- Patchy1 00:07, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Thanks, Cindy! Abhidevananda (talk) 08:00, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)
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Mail art – Deletion of References to 'Hairmail' and Astroturf
Hello Cindamuse, there is a full explanation on the Mail art talk page of why the reference to 'marketing Hairmail and Astroturf' was removed; marketing stuff has nothing to do with Mail Art, and the reference that was entered was a dead link too. I may be a bit dim, but how do you add a description of changes when making an edit? Keithbates51 (talk) 14:28, 25 November 2012 (UTC) Well, thank you for your kind comment anyway and I hope the cheferie is going well. Is it possible to refer this page to an Art specialist because Mail Art is not about money, and the line stating that 'Hairmail and Astroturf postcards were marketed in the late 1990s' not only incongruously mentions two specific and little (if ever) used collage materials within a paragraph about the general mixing of media, but it also suggests that these postcards were sold - something that is very much against the ethos of Mail Art. You're right the link [9] isn't actually dead, but again it's commercial in nature – it leads to a Washington Post link that invites you to pay to read an article. Keithbates51 (talk) 14:45, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi! Unfortunately, the consensus on the article discussion page goes against the changes that you are attempting to make on the article. Additionally, the repeated attempts to make these changes, when consensus has been determined and others keep reverting your edits to ensure compliance with the community policies and guidelines is known as edit warring. This can actually come back to bite you, resulting in a block or suspension of your editing privileges. Something I don't think anyone would like to see. We actually don't remove dead links, since we have tools to research the citation. In this particular case though, the citation was not a dead link. Sufficient information was provided to identify the source, along with a link to the archived content. This actually comes in very handy for editors and readers that have access to the specific archives. As far as adding a description of your edit or changes, simply write out a brief edit summary (or description) of you edit in the box located just above the link that you click on to save the edit. If I'm not making much sense, visit this page: Help:Edit summary, which should offer some guidance. Feel free to contact me again if you have questions. Best regards, Cindy  ( talk to me ) 14:49, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The concensus you refer to concerns my attempt to restore longstanding External links, not the stuff about 'marketing Hairmail and Astroturf' which both Hu12 (6 November) and Mr Ollie agreed was not relevant to the article – http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:MrOllie&diff=522884037&oldid=522808367 Thanks for the info about adding descriptions. Keithbates51 (talk) 15:40, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, the article history shows that consensus has not been shown for the removal of content per your edits. Both User:Hu12 and User:MrOllie have reverted your edits a couple of times. We have a process outlined for controversial edits, such as those you want to make. Essentially, you have shown yourself to be bold in your editing. That is good! However, if another editor comes back and reverts (or deletes) your changes, it is important to discuss the edits, working toward an agreement, before making the same changes again. You can find more about this process at WP:BRD. Hope this helps. (Sorry that I wasn't here earlier. I'm a "wannabe chef" and I'm working up a storm in the kitchen. LOL) Cindy  ( talk to me ) 16:36, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Hue & Cry
Hi. I created pages for the Hue & Cry albums 'Truth And Love' and 'Labours Of Love - The Best Of Hue And Cry'. However, I think you added a redirect to the band's website? These albums did chart: http://hueandcry.bandcamp.com/album/truth-and-love http://hueandcry.bandcamp.com/album/labours-of-love-the-best-of Could you please reintroduce them on Wikipedia? Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chen lung (talk • contribs) 17:02, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Can you provide links to the redirects? If you can show significant coverage in reliable sources that are reliable and independent of the band, we shouldn't have a problem. Just let me know the location of the redirects and I'll take a look. In essence, we won't be able to use the band's profile on bandcamp, since it doesn't meet the threshold for reliable and independent. Hope this helps. Cindy  ( talk to me ) 18:39, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

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WikiProject Wikify: November Newsletter and December Drive

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Administrators
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List of most watched YouTube videos move request
Hi Cindy. Per common name, can you please have the title of List of most watched YouTube videos changed to List of most viewed YouTube videos? The overwhelming common term for videos is of course viewed, not watched, and almost all reliable sourcing and the relevant chart itself uses it for the category ("Most Viewed Videos"). FYI, this article just completed the AfD process. Thanks! --76.189.126.40 (talk) 08:10, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for contacting me. I went ahead and made some edits, along with the move per WP:BOLD. While I don't expect the move to be reverted, it is feasible, outside of prior consensus. Essentially, while "viewed" is the official name or term used by YT, it may not be the one most commonly used by Wikipedia readers or the general public, which is what is meant by "common name". (It might be the most commonly used term, I just honestly have no idea.) Oftentimes, we use different article titles, rather than the official one used by the website. If someone reverts the move and I don't see it before you do, let me know and we'll just add a requested move template on the discussion page, which will allow other editors to weigh in with their concerns or support for a move. After seven days, the move will either be made or not, based on consensus. Hope this helps... and hope you are having a good weekend! (Now, back to my YouTube videos. You got me hooked!) Cindy  ( talk to me ) 14:00, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Cindy! I'm glad I got you hooked. :P I did read the "common name" guidelines before I wrote you. And I can assure you that it is the common name; not just the official name. When someone watches a video of any type on any website (not just YouTube), it's referred to universally as a "view" - not only by the media and other reliable sources, but also by the general public. If someone said, "Hey, did you see how many watches that Lady Gaga video has?", they would be looked at like they're weird. Well, maybe out of touch. It's something someone's elderly grandmother would say. No offense to my elderly grandmother haha. Therefore, I doubt anyone will challenge the move. But thanks a lot for explaining how the move discussion process would work, just in case. --76.189.126.40 (talk) 14:59, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

non-free photo on Negro pencil lead page
Hello, thanks for the welcome! I'm VERY new at this, so please bear with me. I have an image that I would like to add to the Negro (pencil lead) page, but I'm not auto-confirmed yet. I'm not sure if it's a free image, but I'm certain that it would qualify as a non-free image and really improve that page. If you would be interested in posting it for me-- I could send you the photo and the background information. Just let me know! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lowellisaac (talk • contribs) 18:12, 2 December 2012 (UTC) Forgot to sign this: Lowellisaac (talk) 18:15, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey there! Welcome to Wikipedia! Is this an image that you took yourself? Or an image from a manufacturer? Do you have an online link to the image that I could take a look at? Cindy  ( talk to me ) 18:25, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It's a drawing that I found on this site for a gallery: http://www.bawag-foundation.at/files/BCF/Ausstellungen/2010/Marcel-van-Eeden/Presse/Fotos/Big/9.jpg They have all the background information and exhibited the artist's work themselves. It's the best example I've been able to find of the visual qualities of Negro lead (value range, texture, dark blacks, etc.) Here is the piece I want to show (although I have a better quality version on my computer-- you can't really see the blacks in this one): http://www.bawag-foundation.at/files/BCF/Ausstellungen/2010/Marcel-van-Eeden/Presse/Fotos/Big/9.jpg Thanks for the help, I'm an artist and I've been wanting to make this page for a while. Lowellisaac (talk) 18:40, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Whoops-- that was the same link obviously, here is the gallery site: http://www.bawag-foundation.at/index.php?id=73&events=230 Lowellisaac (talk) 18:42, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * That is a nice drawing, but unfortunately, we wouldn't be able to use that photo, due to copyright protections. An example of a non-free (or fair-use) photo would be a copy of a company logo in an article specifically about that company. If you were to take a photo yourself of some pencils for the page that does not show the logo or manufacturer, we could add those to the article. But unfortunately, with this particular article subject, non-free are really non-existent. You can read more at this link: Non-free content. Let me know if you have questions. Cindy  ( talk to me ) 18:56, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I see-- in that case I think it would be worth using a Negro pencil drawing of my own. Here is a link to one blog post illustration: http://lowellisaac.blogspot.com/2012/12/moonchild-example-of-negro-pencil.html This is my standard website, I'm not sure how much information about me would be needed for this: www.lowellisaac.com Lowellisaac (talk) 19:25, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film/Indian cinema task force
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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style
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What was this?
Was this a mistake? Because, otherwise, it was so inappropriate that I don't even know where to begin. Silver seren C 10:48, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
 * You are certainly entitled to your opinion. The edit was made as intended and recorded in the edit summary. The content removed included a roster of employees and clients supported by press releases masquerading as reliable sources. Including the content is inappropriate in this case. Best regards, Cindy  ( talk to me ) 11:16, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Problems with article: David Tyler (businessman)
Hi Cindy, As you know I have edited a page regarding my father a couple of times now. I'm not writing anything biased, simply facts. I'm not trying to be difficult, but rather than just telling me that it needs to comply with the Manual of Style, please can you tell me what actually needs to be corrected? Also, I'm not clear on why you removed the citations I added which prove the facts from what is surely a reputable website, namely Business Week. Thanks, Adtyler (talk) 14:08, 9 December 2012 (UTC)AndyAdtyler (talk) 14:08, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Andy, thanks for contacting me! The businessweek citation was inadvertently removed and has now been re-added to the article. Sorry about that. As far as telling you what needs to be corrected, I have actually provided information and links to the guidelines both in the edit summary and detailed data on your talk page. I've gone ahead and made the necessary revisions myself. It is oftentimes difficult for editors to participate in articles in which they have a conflict of interest with the subject. What some people consider to be "correct" may not necessarily be appropriate for an encyclopedia. Applicable guidelines that you may want to review include WP:MOS, WP:MOSBIO, and Help:Link. Note also that we use common names, rather than legal names or attaching legal addenda to corporate names. Hope this helps answer your questions. Please feel free to contact me anytime you need help. Best regards, Cindy  ( talk to me ) 14:32, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: November 2012
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The Phantom Pain (video game)
That AfD is in regards to the Joakim Mogren article as you can see here. It links directly to it, not the Phantom Pain article. --Anddo (talk) 23:42, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
 * You need to take a look at the article and discussion again. The two articles are bundled. Understand that it is never appropriate to remove an AFD template for an article currently undergoing a deletion discussion. If you are confused, please visit the discussion and feel free to ask questions. Further removal of the AFD template may result in a blocking or suspension of your editing privileges. You can learn more about the AFD process here. Cindy  ( talk to me ) 00:24, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Bundled in what twisted reality? They are seperate just like this talk page and the Moron (psychology) article. --Anddo (talk) 01:26, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Check out WP:BUNDLE. Then, check yourself and the personal attacks. Cindy  ( talk to me ) 02:12, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:The7stars.jpg)
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Mary Weston Fordham
Hello, thank you very much on your comment regarding my inconsistency with some guidelines using Page Curation. I appreciate it very much as I still needs to learn from expert editors like you. All your points are noted and I take it as a lesson to rather enhance myself in wikipedia. Thank you and Best Regards. --Wakowako (talk) 11:17, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Categories, lists, and navigation templates
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