User talk:CindyBo/Archive 2

Barnard's Express
Thanks for your great work on this article, and the stuff I gather must also be on the List of vessels on the Upper Fraser page or whatever it's called; I wrote the two Frank Barnard Sr/Jr articles and meant to get at Tingley, as I've got a bit on him in various books here, though not perhaps as much as you evidently might. Were all steamers on the Upper Fraser BC Expressco's? Just checking, could be monopoly route-licenses, which wouldnt' surprise me given the period. I know there were rafting businesses of some kind, on the Nechako/Stuart as well as the Fraser, and other river traffic, but maybe none motorized; never read up on that much of the gold rush, I'm more the Lillooet-Canyon end of things as you know. Before I sign off (which I'll do before I continue on too much) I'd like to suggest, once you're happy with what you're doing here, to apply the same general layout/style to the other steamer/freight service routes on the Interior lakes; I can stub up the basics of those on the Lakes Route and Arrow Lakes, but for the Savona-Shuswap run, and Okanagan Lake I wouldn't know; I think I can crib together those that served the middle Fraser, i.e. above Hells Gate to Lytton, sometimes up as far as Lillooet depending on draft and size, but I'll have to scratch my head to remember where. Anything you might have on Gustavus Blin-Wright, who must be mentioned in your resources on Barnard, would be great to start an article with; I only have traces, not even enough to start a stub as everything I read was reserves/curriculum I don't have anymore....anyway, keep up the good work, nice to see someone else interested in BC history; there might be something in the JB Kerr source cited on the two Frank Barnard pages that has details about the vessels and the freightage business; matter of fact I'm sure there is....Skookum1 07:29, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

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Article suggestions
As you're already discovering, Wikipedia is timeconsuming and braindraining ;-) But I was thinking last night about our discussions about the northern road/ferry contrast and how Fort George was piss-all until the GTP came rolling through - there wasn't much need of a road, nor much upkeep for it, between Quesnel and FG until then - didn't those boats roll right up on the Nechako/Stuart before that (or "boat" as I recall you said something about only one; sorry I should read it all more closely and have a think before making comments, huh?).  But it also got me thinking about that whole railway-opening era across the Yellowhead-Bulkley, which is really when that part of the province got "opened" up; I also gather it was because of the GTP that Barkerville's colony-old dominance as the main town in the Northern Interior finally got bumped (amazing it kept on going in such an out-of-the-way place, although I gather Quesnel was gathering steam...). Anyway, along the GTP route there's all those ghosttown-shantycamps that sprung up and all need articles; the one that comes to mind is Birmingham, which IIRC was over by Vanderhoof; see Ghost towns of British Columbia books for more. Also a series of articles on the New Caledonia fur forts and some of their histories is sorely needed. No doubt there's all kinds of articles around PG in need of attention, including modern-era stuff of all kinds....I'm just ref'ing historical-related stuff of course.Skookum1 18:33, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Birmingham, British Columbia
Just for fun, since I'm a fast transcribing typist, and it's a brief passage, I'll copy out the Birmingham section and adjoining bits from Bruce Ramsay's Ghost Towns of British Columbia, which is the only place I've seen Birmingham and its sister GTP towns named/talked about.


 * "Before and after Tet Jaune Cache's natal day, the real estate promoters moved in, and along the right of way of the G.T.P. the dreamers great dreams. And, lo! how they could dream!  Some were honest, while others had that touch of larceny in them that made peopl suspect the legitimate real estate man.

"As early as 1910 the Birminham Townsite company Limited, with offices at 519 Granville Street in Vancouver, was touting Birminghma as being "destined to be the SEDCOND-GREATEST CITY in British Columbia"


 * ''Because Birmingham is situated
 * ''at the logical and geogrpahical centre of British Columbia - the greatet and wealthiest province of the Dominion
 * ''on the mainlaine of the G.T.P. railway, equi-distant from the three great cities of Vancouver, Edmonton and Prince Rupert;
 * ''at the meeting point of the six projected railways;
 * ''on the conjunction fo the great fraser and Nechacco rivers - 1000 miles of navigable waterways.
 * "Thus went a full-page advertisement in the Vancover Province for March 12, 1910. And then came the clincher:
 * ''Here's your chance to get in on the ground floor. We offer 1000 lots at $50 each - $25 cash - and guarantee absolutely that these lots will in two and a half months be selling at from $150 to $200.  Don't delay."
 * "There was also the Fort Salmon townsite, 20 miles north of Fort (Prince) George:
 * PLANT YOUR DOLLARS IN FORT SALMON
 * THE HOUR OF FRUITAGE IS AT HAND
 * And, there was East New Hazelton:

"Greatest Subscription Premium Ever Offered By A Magazine!" read an advertisement in the Provnce for July 8, 1914. "Nothing to equal it has ever been attempted . . . the Canadian Magazine, Canada's acknowledged leading monthly is making this exceptional offer to you. subscribe to the canaidan Magazine for two yers at the regular price, and received a lot 33 by 230 in East New Hazelton FREE (with the exception of a small fee to cover costs of survey, delivery of deed, etc) . . .  Lots in this very neighbourhood are selling from $150 to $1,500 and prices are increasing rapidly.  Grasp this unique opporutnity now.  there are no strings to this offer, the reputation of The Canadian Magazine is your ample guarantee that every statement made here is genuinely true.'
 * "The advertisement concluded that 'The Canadian Magazine is in the publishing business and not in the real estate business."
 * "There were others: Willow City, cewntral Fort George, Kitamaat, Canyon City, and many more. Most, like Birmingham and Fort Salmon, are still wiating for their first building, and they probably will wait for a long time to come.

The longer sections on Tete Jaune Cache and Freeport which bookend this I don't have time for right now; this book should be in the local public library history section; it's a BC standard.Skookum1 00:37, 17 April 2007 (UTC) More on my talkpage.Skookum1 02:18, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Enterprise (sternwheeler)
Saw your split off of this; just a heads-up about that dab name, though, as there was another Enterprise on the Lower Fraser in the same period; also likely a sternwheeler though I've never seen a picture of it; among the first to run to Yale (the first was IIRC the Umatilla).Skookum1 07:41, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Lucky on the sidewheeler; I suspect this may be a common commercial ship name, and the SS Enterprise page is mostly a military disambig as I recall; wow it's a redlink..... But all those other sidewheelers and sternwheeler articles which may be out there, on all those American rivers with steamer service, are just going to have to deal with how to disambig themselves; IIRC the fraser gold rush-era Enterprise has a history southwards, too, as did the Umatilla (which was a sternwheeler), which had worked the Columbia; some I know had worked the Sacramento and many were those which had come up-coast bringing miners; most returned and not all are logged in the histories, some we know just by name/single reference somewhere.Skookum1 08:03, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Enjoyed your article on the Enterprise. I've written the article Enterprise (1814) This Enterprise was also a sternwheeled steamboat. There were many historically important steamboats named Enterprise (or Enterprize) and since some of them were sternwheelers they are often confused. To avoid confusion perhaps the best title for your article would be "Enterprise (1862)". Robert M. Hunt 15:03, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Overlanders (British Columbia)
Right down your alley, and an important story in need of an article; there's even a category derivable from it because so many of the survivors were notable; our Donner Party only not as gory (though we had some of those, too). Came to mind when I saw mention of the McMicking Party coming via Fort George, and of course the raft accident at the Grand Canyon of the Fraser is part of the story, and the mad, completely mad, effort to cross the Cariboo Mountains in winter by one group (a couple of whom made it). People today don't realize the impossibility of getting from what was then still Rupert's Land to the settled parts of British Columbia; same as with Klondike-bound people who just had no idea of the scale of distance or the nature of rivers and terrain and climate they would face; it was a remarkable, and crazy, accomplishment. I've never understood why the Overlander Party (necessary redirect) had such a hard time, actually, since the fur trade guys had been using the Rockies passes for decades without too much problem; Barkerville's at an odd location, especially for access from the East; but still.....anyway, gripping stuff, northern BC oriented (though some came down the North Thompson), but there ya go; I'll be offline for quite a while starting next week or so, so all I can do is wave and say "hi, here's some more articles for you to think about doing"! '-)Skookum1 08:15, 17 April 2007 (UTC) Also needful redirect: Overlander (British Columbia); I think mostly because the disambig page is Overlander, not the plural, but the usual reference in BC is to them in the plural, or a a group anyway, although you might say "so-and-so had been an Overlander", as you'll see abot this or that historical figure.Skookum1

More Northern BC work for you ;-)
Hi; I just made Carrier First Nations and am not sure it's got the Tribal Councils lined up properly; I chose "Carrier" because it's inclusive of the Wet'suwet'en and Babine, which apparently Dakelh isn't. As you can see from the template a lot of these articles need creation - they can be raw stubs modelled on others already there like Kluskus First Nation (just copy-paste and change the necessary words), but there's also issues to do with FN stuff that are too long to get into here; start at Talk:Skwxwu7mesh or Talk:Squamish Nation and branch out from there; each group needs a separate people article, a separate language article (if separate), a separate government article, a separate town article, i.e. locality/place, as a geographic article, and in some cases there will also be specific IR articles; the name format "First Nation" alone in a title is, for now, equivalent in what standards have evolved to be synonymous with Indian Band, or as User:OldManRivers puts it, "Indian act government". One example of this is the Moricetown Indian Band "article" which is currently a redirect to Moricetown, British Columbia; even though the band is the only presence in Moricetown (if that's the case), there still should be separate articles; content variations explained later or may be self-evident once you poke around. Treaty groups get separate articles, as also educational and social institutions and programs that are notable enough to qualify. I know, it's a huge amount of work, and I've done most of the southern half of the province, and even at stub level it took a while. Hate to throw ALL of this at you, but just because you're "up there" and may be able to source down,e.g. the tribal council compositions, which seem to change every so many years/months; feel free to fix the template if any band in "Unaffiliated" should be in a tribal council, and you can add a tribal council if there's another one up there to add.Skookum1 23:53, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

John Houston

 * ''John Houston, that is not him, John Houston (newspaperman)? bio for SFG history and add reference in Houston. He was 1st mayor of Nelson too.

Not sure if it's the same guy as the 1st mayor of Nelson, but there was also a John Houston who operated the Granville Hotel in Gastown 1868 onwards, where the Lumberjack's Breakfast was invented; this guy was involved in other things of note, too, so maybe he's the Nelson mayor (?); it's been my impression it was him who the town of Houston was named after, too. BTW people up there don't say "HOW-ston", do they? Just curious; it's how Houston St. in New York is pronounced, where SoHo comes from (South of Houston St.).Skookum1 19:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

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Hello, as per your help desk question, now that you have included a suitable tag and a description, it looks fine to me, but I have stated on the help desk question that if I am wrong (I highly doubt it), they will leave a note there, so keep a watch there; but as I said, it looks fine. Good luck with your editing, Extranet (Talk 07:41, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Northern Interior cats
I've been busy tonight; there's now:
 * Category:Northern Interior of British Columbia, with subcats
 * Category:Omineca Country
 * Category:Bulkley Country
 * Category:Skeena Country
 * Category:Peace Country
 * still neeeded are Category:Nechako Country, Category:Nass Country (? should be in Category:North Coast of British Columbia also; not sure what to do about Stewart, British Columbia), Category:Cassiar Country, Category:Stikine Country, Category:Atlin Country, Category:Liard Country (aka Alaska Highway corridor) an Category:Robson Valley (or Category:Yellowhead Country??); to make 'em just click on 'em and input Category:Northern Interior of British Columbia, then make sure there's at least six or seven items each so the cats won't get deleted.....throwing this to you because it's in your geographic bailiwick and I'd be fuzzy on where the Omineca begins an ends vs the Bulkley or Stikine; in many cases I put three or four "country" cats, esp. on highways or other things that traverse a number of them; but also because, well, I just don't know and also because they can overlap; they're not exclusive of each other; what's Mackenzie, British Columbia in - the Category:Peace Country? - as would be Williston Lake e.g.); even Hazelton was connected to the Omineca Gold Rush - but it's not part of the Omineca Country is it?  BTW I found specs on the submerged Black Canyon (Omineca River) in an old book on hydroelectric potentials....plus flow details on waterfalls and rivers all over the place.......won't get done by me, though disconnecting Monday)Skookum1 09:30, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Vessels of the Lakes Route started
Needs actual ship names now ;-) but I'm tired and need to hit the sack...text improvements welcome and I'm not awake enough to figure out how to fit the title into the opening setnence properly.Skookum1 08:47, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

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Did you know?
--Aquarius &#149; talk 21:19, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Prince George User Box
Hi, I tried to put the Prince George user box on your page, but it did not come out well as I am not all that good at inserting user boxes into pages well. You probably have better computer skills than me, so maybe you can figure out some way to get the user box to look good on your page.--MWaller

Charles Vance Millar
Are you sure that the stork derby Millar and the BX Millar are the same person? I have only read a bit about the stork derby fellow, but in what I have read, I did not think he had any connection to BC. I could be completely wrong, but I am wondering if this may just be a mix up? -- KenWalker | Talk 06:27, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm sure, odd at it seems. Millar is mentioned, along with the Derby in several good sources other than the Willis West one I used in the article. The best source would be: A Thousand Blunders: The History of the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway in Northern British Columbia by Frank Leonard. I have it lent out right now, but I'll cite it in the article once I get it back and can put in the page numbers. And another source is Prince George, Rivers, Railways and Timber by Bev Christensen. I'm sure he's also mentioned in History of Prince George by Runnalls as well. Millar was a big part of our history and a large subdivision here carries his name. He was somewhat of a land speculator, and he very nearly owned Prince George. He tried to buy the land right out from under the GTP's nose, as they were footdragging, as they often did. Anyway, the GTP and Millar quarreled for years over the townsite and bridges and their rival sternwheelers. But the histories are clear that it's the same man, a Toronto lawyer and all that.CindyBo 06:55, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and there's this little blurb online too.CindyBo 06:59, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, imagine that. I knew of him for the stork derby but had no idea that he had a BC connection.  Remarkable.  Thanks! -- KenWalker | Talk 07:07, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

DYK

 * Glad to see yet another recognition for the great work you are doing CindyBo! DYK is a useful feature for drawing attention to new content. -- KenWalker | Talk 15:20, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

SS City of Ainsworth
CBC this morning is reporting that there will be a dive to the deepest wreck in Canada, the SS City of Ainsworth. Nothining on wikipedia about her, but I see the odd link on the web that refers to her. It make me wonder how many of these steamers there were in BC. I had no idea there were so many. -- KenWalker | Talk 15:41, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Art Downs says in Paddlewheels on the Frontier that there were "well over 300" in BC, more than anywhere else in North America. I'm quite sure that a vast majority of these worked on the coast and in the Okanagan and the Kootenays. There's another book Sternwheelers, Sandbars and Switchbacks (or something like that) that lists about 100 of them that worked on and around Okanagan Lake and Kootenay Lake, Thompson River and so on. We didn't have quite so many in the North, 12 on the upper Fraser and maybe 20 on the Skeena, another 6 or so on the Peace etc. Here's another picture of the Ainsworth on Kaslo Bay. That one should be easy to do an article for, there seems to be a lot of information online and Downs probably mentions her too. I'll see what I can dig up, being that it's in the news. Ci ndy Bo  talk  01:31, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I see we're also missing Ainsworth, British Columbia and George Ainsworth. Ci ndy Bo talk  01:49, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I did the article City of Ainsworth today, for a nice change it doesn't have to be (sternwheeler) or (ship) or (whatever year), as surely there was only one boat called that. I couldn't find any recent news on her online though. But I made a section about the dives in the late 90's, so newer information can easily be added, if you or I come across anything else. Ci ndy Bo talk  07:03, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Nicely done. I can't find anything on the CBC web site about the planned dive but I did hear it a couple of times.  They plan some practice dives and then the real thing later in the summer, August I think they said.  Sorry I don't have the name of the dive team but if I come across it I will let you know.  Thanks for doing this, it would be interesting to be able to follow the effect the media attention over the summer has on the hits this article will have. -- KenWalker | Talk 15:40, 27 June 2007 (UTC)