User talk:Cjauernig

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome!
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * Tutorial
 * How to edit a page
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style

Waldorf education
Hi. The link you added to the article seems a bit like advertising spam. Could you explain on the articles talk page why it would be a good addition? Thanks! --Rocksanddirt 15:45, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Possible additional Waldorf alumni
A list of Waldorf school alumni has been set up and it lists 3 alumni that are not on the International List of Famous Waldorf Alumni. They are Benjamin Agosto, Rachel Podger and Bryan Thao Worra. Perhaps you had already screened these people and found they are not alumni by your definition. Or perhaps they are new to you. I think I can find additional information on each of them if you'd like. For example, Benjamin Agosto attended Chicago Waldorf School through grade 8 but went to high school elsewhere. Merci, EPadmirateur (talk) 16:10, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Here's a fourth alumnus: Jonael Schickler that you might consider. I have just noticed that theWaldorfs list is copyrighted and that you do not want it duplicated on Wikipedia. I apologize that I did not see this notice and used the list to add most of the links that I added. So I will remove those that can't be verified elsewhere, over the next several days. Thanks for your work in maintaining this list of Waldorf alumni. --EPadmirateur (talk) 05:28, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Here is an interesting source, an article by Thomas Poplawski, which lists four more notable alumni, not listed on theWaldorfs, that might be worth checking on:


 * Nastassja Kinski, movie star and supermodel
 * Douglas Brenner, editor of Garden Design, former chief editor of Martha Stewart Living (Kimberton Waldorf School: source alumni newsletter)
 * Charles Rose, internationally known architect (Garden City WS: source alumni news, also see book reference)
 * Shana Blake Hill, internationally active opera singer, Los Angeles Opera (dubious because her being an alumna isn't mentioned in this biography or this one)
 * On the basis of this article, I will add Nastassja Kinski to our list, but I would appreciate hearing from you if you think this information is incorrect. I think you can contact Poplawski via the Renewal magazine, published by the Association of Waldorf Schools of North America, AWSNA, for more details of these alumni. --EPadmirateur (talk) 01:10, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Here is another interesting source which looks suspiciously like an earlier version of your list. It has four names that are not on your list, so I wonder: Nastassja Kinski (again), Harry Rowohlt, Imke Schmidt, and Henry Weidemann. Harry Rowohlt may be an error in that their biographical sketch mentions his attending the Walddörfer-Gymnasium. Perhaps these were names on your list which were subsequently removed? --EPadmirateur (talk) 01:49, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Not counting the 3 from the previous post (Rowohlt, Imke Schmidt, Weidemann), here is number 9 possible notable additional alumnus, Marzuki Stevens, long distance and marathon runner, brother of Sufjan Stevens, who also attended Detroit Waldorf School. The source is a news article by James McNair, Satire with bells on, November 30, 2006. --EPadmirateur (talk) 05:15, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Additional source information: for Benjamin Agosto see his talk page: there was a newsletter (2/22/2006) at the Chicago Waldorf School that highlighted him as a Grade School alumnus. Unfortunately the newsletter is no longer on-line but there was discussion of it elsewhere. For Rachel Podger and Bryan Thao Worra, there is reference in their articles. I didn't do any more work to verify this further on the Internet, but I could. For Jonael Schickler, there is mention on his Wikipedia article. His biography at Queens' College also states he attended Michael Hall RS School. You may not find him notable enough for your list, particularly since he has died. --EPadmirateur (talk) 06:46, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Independent verification of the Wikipedia list
I have concluded an investigation of the Wikipedia list of alumni and verified independent sources (other than theWaldorfs list) that identify nearly all of the people listed there. The 7 people that I could not independently verify have been removed: Christoph Bantzer, Claus Bantzer, Cosma Shiva Hagen, Nastassja Kinski, Barbara Valentin, Veruschka, and Roeland Wiesnekker. It appears that you removed Nastassja Kinski from your list for some reason, but she was listed earlier. --EPadmirateur (talk) 05:21, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

German Wikipedia sources for Waldorf graduates
The German Wikipedia has articles on 21 Waldorf alumni not on your list. In many of the cases, the specific Waldorf school is identified: de:Wolfram Achtnich, de:Peter Stephan Jungk, de:Sebastian Herrmann, de:Heidi Lüdi, de:Peter Podehl, de:Sonja Sutter, de:Akseli Kokkonen, de:Thomas Mauch, de:Jörg Schmidt-Reitwein, de:René Harder, de:Oliver Pocher, de:Jana Becker, de:Vinzenz Lüps, de:Tamina Kallert, de:Björn Pätzoldt, de:Oda Jaune (spent 1 year in Heidelburg), de:Kristian Kiehling, de:Lorenzo Patané, de:Christian Käs, de:Wolfgang Buchleitner, de:Sera Finale. We added two of these alumni who are also in the English Wikipedia. --EPadmirateur (talk) 06:07, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Norwegian and Finnish Wikipedia sources for Waldorf graduates
The Norwegian Wikipedia article on the Oslo Rudolf Steiner School lists quite a number of notable alumni not on your list (I think 11): no:Njål Sparbo, operasanger, no:Johannes Weisser, operasanger, no:Nicolai Cleve Brock, skuespiller, no:Kjersti Holmen, skuespiller, no:Peter Normann Waage, forfatter og idéhistoriker, no:Jon Almaas, programleder og skribent, no:Anneke von der Lippe, skuespiller, no:Eindride Eidsvold, skuespiller, no:Gard Eidsvold, skuespiller, no:Marius Renberg, grafisk designer, no:Nicolaus Widerberg, billedkunstner. Of these, two are notable enough to be on English Wikipedia: Njål Sparbo and Jon Almaas, and de:Anneke von der Lippe on German Wikipedia.

The Finnish fi:Steinerkoulu article has the following statement which identifies several notable Finnish Waldorf alumni not on your list: "Tunnettuja suomalaisia steinerkoulun kasvatteja ovat entinen ympäristöministeri fi:Pekka Haavisto, näyttelijä fi:Heidi Herala, kansanedustaja fi:Oras Tynkkynen, kokki fi:Sara La Fountain, näytelmäkirjailija fi:Laura Ruohonen, rumpali fi:Antti Lehtinen, sarjakuvataiteilija fi:Ville Ranta ja säveltäjä fi:Kaija Saariaho". I believe you have only Kaija Saariaho on your list, leaving 7 others, of which two are in the English Wikipedia: Pekka Haavisto and Oras Tynkkynen. --EPadmirateur (talk) 06:56, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Regarding the Finnish sentence that includes a list of people with their apparent notability: it starts "Tunnettuja suomalaisia steinerkoulun kasvatteja" which probably means "Notable Finnish Steiner school alumni", at least "tunnettu" means notable and "kasvattava" means educative (from an on-line Finnish dictionary). The other words appear to be the person's occupation (e.g., ympäristöministeri, Minister of Environment and säveltäjä, composer). --EPadmirateur (talk) 14:33, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Other sources of notable alumni
--EPadmirateur (talk) 07:23, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Nancy Huston writer, High Mowing Waldorf School: source Montreal Rudolf Steiner School page
 * David E. Blackmer audio electronics inventor, High Mowing Waldorf School: source the English Wikipedia article
 * Judson Mills actor, High Mowing Waldorf School: source the English Wikipedia article
 * Anna Paquin Oscar winning actress, Raphael House Rudolf Steiner School: source Raphael House Rudolf Steiner School
 * Andrej Preston computer BitTorrent expert, Waldorf School, Ljubljana, Slovenia: source news article
 * John Polson actor, Glenaeon Rudolf Steiner School: source Glenaeon_Rudolf_Steiner_School
 * Greg Hamerton fantasy novelist, Waldorf school in Cape Town(?) source the English Wikipedia article
 * Amanda Sage artist, Shining Mountain Waldorf School, Boulder, Colorado: source the English Wikipedia article
 * Mark Vos champion poker player, Waldorf High School in Constantia: source the English Wikipedia article
 * Candis Cayne actress and transsexual performer, Waldorf School in Maui, Hawaii: source the English Wikipedia article and news article
 * Scott Boman Libertarian politician, Detroit Waldorf School: source the English Wikipedia article
 * Sanjaya Malakar pop singer, Seattle Waldorf School: source the English Wikipedia article
 * Tim Arnold (musician) songwriter and musician, Rudolf Steiner School in England: source the English Wikipedia article
 * Sean Yates international cyclist, Michael Hall School: source School Search listing, "Former pupils", which also lists (but who may not be necessarily notable): Martyn Boysens (mountaineer); Bella Freud (Young Designer of the Year); Estella Freud (actress, writer); Prof John Pearce (author and professor in child/adolescent psychiatry, Nottingham University).
 * Zoé Miku actress, Rudolf Steiner School of Zurich, Waldorf School of Aberdeen: source movie cast bio
 * Giuliano Hazan well-known Italian cookbook author and chef, Rudolf Steiner School in NYC: source article from Gourmet magazine

A questionable source but with new names
The "promi" page (for Prominent Waldorf students?) which is cached in Google looks like a copy of theWaldorfs list but is in two parts and contains 9 more names not on your current list, that I could not verify as being Waldorf alumni: --EPadmirateur (talk) 07:37, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Jan Amman, Musicalsänger bei "Ludwig II" Deutschland
 * Robert Atzorn, TV-Schauspieler Deutschland
 * Monica Benda, Solobratschistin des Orchestra de la Swizzera Italiana (Lugano, Schweiz) Brasilien
 * Christian Bergkvist, Starviolinist Schweden
 * Katharina Enzensberger, Autorin Deutschland
 * Kai Jepsen, Fernseh- und Radiomoderator Deutschland
 * Jona, Teilnehmerin der 1. "Big Brother" Staffel auf RTL2 Deutschland
 * Lara Körte
 * Roberto Wüsthoff

Possible additional notable alumni from Rudolf Steiner School NY
Here is a page from the RS School in NY that lists 9 distinguished alumni. Many of them you may not think are notable but two are, one you have (Victor Navasky) and the other is notable as a screenwriter (Raven Metzner), and you might consider one or two others. --EPadmirateur (talk) 22:47, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Who qualifies as an alumnus, who qualifies as notable?
I have two questions about the criteria for inclusion in the International List of Famous Waldorf Alumni:
 * who would be considered an alumnus? Attending a Waldorf school for only one year (or even less)? Attending only kindergarten but not grade school? What if the person does not consider herself to be an alumnus, even though she attended a Waldorf school?


 * how does an alumnus qualify as notable? The web site says, "...who are recognized in their home countries or internationally for positive contributions to the arts, science, politics, commerce, industry, and other fields... We reserve the right to decide for or against including names on the list on a case-by-case basis." When does an actor or rock singer become "recognized for positive contributions"? If they do not qualify in one year, do you check back later? (For the Wikipedia category, this is very simple: if there is an article about the person, the person is notable).

Thanks! --EPadmirateur (talk) 14:16, 4 January 2008 (UTC)


 * So far, the only criteria has been that he/she attended a Waldorf school at any point in time. There is no criteria as to attending such school for at least x months or years.


 * Attending only Waldorf kindergarten does generally not qualify for the list. However, we have so far made one exception from this rule when we added the grandchildren of Nobel Prize holder Saul Bellow to the parents' section, when they were actually suggested by his daughter-in-law. Still, since this is an exception we reserve the right to remove that entry.


 * If the person does not consider herself to be an alumnus and does for this reason object to be listed, we will remove the name upon being informed, as stated in the list's guidelines.


 * Particularly because there is no universal way to measure "positive contributions", we "reserve the right to decide for or against including names on the list on a case-by-case basis." This decision we make is based on the impression publicly available reports or articles reflect of this person. There have been cases, for example, where children of a famous Waldorf parent were first added as "children of..." in the parents' section, but later moved to the alumni section when they had become famous themselves in the meantime.


 * So far, we have not relied on the existence of a Wikipedia article as criteria for inclusion in the list. Firstly, this is because there are sometimes articles on people where we are not sure whether they are more than self-marketing entered into Wiki by the individuals themselves. Secondly, this is because of the word "positive" in "positive contributions". While there may be an Wikipedia article on an alumnus, it may at the same time very well questionable whether he is famous in the positive sense of the word. Mainly because we do not want to start political, ethical etc. discussions on the nature of a specific person's fame, there is no other way to keep the decision power regarding publication of names within our editorial discretion. However, if it proves useful to rely on Wikipedia criteria to decide on notability, we might change our strategy in future.


 * Best regards, Cjauernig (talk) 18:29, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

January 27 additions to list
Congratulations on the updates to the list! Some corrections I would suggest: Regards, EPadmirateur (talk) 23:51, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * the entry for Nancy Huston has her name misspelled (as Houston) in two places
 * the entry for Marzuki Stevens has "Trials" repeated three times

Thank you for letting me know. Mistakes are corrected.

Cheers, Cjauernig (talk) 19:47, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Other possible Waldorf alumnae
The article on Frances Bean Cobain, daughter of Kurt Cobain and Courtney Love, states that she attended kindergarten at Highland Hall Waldorf School. However, I can't find any independent verification of this fact. Her notability now might be sufficient to include her among Waldorf alumni, and if not at least include her parents.

There is also an "Ever Carradine" listed among the "lost alumni" of Highland Hall, class of 1992. There is an actress Ever Carradine, daughter of Robert Carradine and granddaughter of John Carradine, who was 18 in 1992. This is such an unusual name that they must be the same person, but it would also need corroboration from Highland Hall. --EPadmirateur (talk) 18:30, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * And another one: Jessica Hart (model) who evidently went to Sophia Mundi Rudolf Steiner School in Australia. --EPadmirateur (talk) 00:22, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * And two other possibles: Camilla Stoltenberg and Nini Stoltenberg, sisters of Jens Stoltenberg probably also went to the Steinerskolen in Oslo. They are notable enough to be in both English and Norwegian Wikipedia. I could find no evidence of their attending the school their brother attended but I expect the school itself would confirm this. --EPadmirateur (talk) 16:33, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

And another one: Mackenzie Phillips went to Highland Hall, per her recent memoir. Also, Frances Bean Cobain is now a reasonably notable musician. --EPadmirateur (talk) 01:48, 23 February 2010 (UTC)


 * And another one: Tom Stone (photographer) went to Highland Hall. --EPadmirateur (talk) 01:56, 10 March 2010 (UTC)