User talk:ClarityRandom

Your submission at Articles for creation: Elizabeth Dore (October 25)
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Captain Eek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 06:44, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

Helen Steel and primary sources
I haven't had a chance to look at the additional sources yet, but I did want to comment briefly about the prior ones, specifically as to whether they are primary or secondary. The two sources on the revision that I looked at that actually mention Steel were this Guardian piece and this advocacy piece. In hindsight, the piece in The Guardian is not primary; I was thrown off by the headline which made it seem as if the article was going to be entirely a primary source account. The advocacy piece, however, is a primary source. I'm skeptical that it's appropriate to have a biography for Steel separate from McLibel case, as there doesn't seem to be any coverage of Steel in contexts unrelated to that case, but I'll refrain from taking any further action until I've had a chance to review the additional sources provided. signed,Rosguill talk 17:59, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

Hi, Rosguill talk

Thanks for replying so quickly. Not sure which country you are from, and so know about the spycops scandal and undercover police inquiry in the UK, but it is very big news (we only have public inquiries in the UK very very rarely, if the state is implicated in very serious potentially unlawful action against its citizens. (So the other public inquiries in recent years are into Bloody Sunday, and the Grenfell Tower Fire). That Steel has been central to both that scandal, and McLibel, and that the spycops operation was not due to Mclibel but to other environmental activism with Greenpeace, I think does make her notable. She is very well known figure in the history of UK activism in the last 3 decades. I'm carrying on adding citations. Bear with me? And then lets discuss again if you still have doubts? It is more likely that I'm not giving her enough credit rather than she is not notable! Will repeat this on her talk page
 * The additional sources are a step in the right direction. However, I do want to clarify one thing which you may have been unclear (and I apologize if you're already familiar with this), but notability has a very specific meaning on Wikipedia; it is not a synonym for important or significant, but rather is a measure of the amount of attention that a subject has received from reliable sources. Specifically, the general litmus test is known as the general notability guide aka GNG. Based on your arguments, it is possible that Steel is notable, but that remains to be seen from the sources that can be assembled. signed,Rosguill talk 20:14, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

Yes I was looking at the notability criteria, and was considering that Steel was notable for her central role in 2  particularly notable - 'events': the policing inquiry (spycops) and McLibel - which are both very important in terms of current affairs. There are tonnes of reliable references to her in the McLibel Article, (which I didn't think were necessary to just reproduce on this page - do you think they should be added in to Steel's article?). There's loads about her in the Spycops coverage too - I'll add more references as I go ClarityRandom (talk) 04:33, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

Just to add I seem to be getting conflicting information about the criteria for notability - so I'm guessing the criteria are interpreted differently by different people - but there are just loads of reputable reliable sources for Helen Steel, you could just carry on going for months and there must be appoint where you stop. Shouldn't this conversation be on the talk page of Steels article though so others can see it? I will copy our conversation over to there, and lets discuss it there where other contributers can see it ClarityRandom (talk) 05:21, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

ANI discussion
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Found a suspicious account. Shenme (talk) 05:34, 30 October 2019 (UTC

Shenme Hi I replied to this, and to the complainant, on the wikipedia administrators noticeboards along the following lines: If making a complaint because you dont like the content of peoples edits it doesn't mean they are a suspicious account, ask for citations rather than accusing people of bad faith. Also check you have a basic understanding of the articles subject before complaining about edits made to it.

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Draft:Elizabeth Dore concern
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