User talk:ClemRutter/Archive/2012

Talkback
mabdul 01:19, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Just what I was looking for. Thanks.--ClemRutter (talk) 13:26, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I asked for a save&continue editing button: mabdul ::: created the tool that you can find at User:Mabdul/saveandedit.js.You 'install' it by adding following line to your Special:MyPage/skin.js:

importScript('User:Mabdul/saveandedit.js'); //adding a new button next to the


 * Ok, great. If you need any improvements, changes or whatever, simply leave me a talkback. ;) mabdul 13:37, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh... I saw it is not working at the moment with section edits... I will fix it and leaving you a talkback, until then you have to use the full edit button. ;-) ... mabdul 13:42, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 * And the script works now without the 'section - edit - bug'. Don't forget to bypass your browser's cache again. mabdul 14:20, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Presumably an accident
Re: this I presume you didn't mean to blank most of the page? DuncanHill (talk) 13:38, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 * nope, bug found in that script... mabdul 13:42, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Spot on- I think that Mabduls script has a slight bug. I think I will leave it a bit before retrying.--ClemRutter (talk) 13:45, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm developing the bug fix at the moment, as mentioned above: if you use the normal edit link at the top (and not the section links) this shouldn't happen. If everything works, you can use the improved script in a few minutes. mabdul 14:01, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Doffer etc.
I can see a lot of room for confusion. I am up to three different weaving doffers. The person who replaces the bobbins or pirns, a roller that takes the fiber off the card, and in my own house (see picture to the right, taken yesterday) a simple implement my wife uses to take fiber off a hand-carder. I suppose in a way they all are used to remove fiber, spun or unspun, from a machine. Yes - adding British and US usages would be good. I can see the article on the human doffers growing quite large. Would you say the person is the dominant usage of the term? That is, Bobbin doffer should be moved over Doffer? I have no strong opinion. Aymatth2 (talk) 13:27, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Right.The way forward- we make a mental not that this may have to be radically changed when we understand it fully- and with that mind set we continue and add information as we discover it. When we think we can make a definitve statement- we can contact eaxh other and come up with right words. As I have said- life is a bit hectic at the moment and it is hard to do much uninterrupted research- thanks for the response.

To doff- verb: to doff ones hat!

--ClemRutter (talk) 20:53, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

List of mills in Wigan
Hello again. I am gradually working through Atherton, Tyldesley and will try to add to the Leigh townships soon. I've added some of the very early mills and I have references to others for which I can't supply the exact locations. What to you think about an introductory note/paragraph before the table as a place to add the info? I hope what I've done meets with approval, its a rather daunting task. J3Mrs (talk) 15:30, 30 June 2012 (UTC).


 * Impressive. I am still working on Python scripts to make geoitags easier. Speak soon.--ClemRutter (talk) 20:55, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

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Hi Clem
We are having another party - Want to come? Its been a long time since Derby Victuallers (talk) 10:28, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Cirque de Navacelles
Hi!

You indicated: "I remain frustrated by the use of the ambiguous (cirque) term, to refer just to corries and cwms. The problem I have is that I annually pass the Cirque de Navacelles and the Cirque du Bout de Monde, in Herault which are fluvial cirques in Kaarst landscape while I have many times visited the Cirque de Gavarnie which is a classic glacial cwm. ...  The French link leads to a category giving other fluvial cirques, I really haven't the geology references in English needed to do this myself but will give all assistance. --"

Must confess I was unaware of the broader French usage, but looked at the French version of the cirque article and see they've prepared a significantly broader, more detailed article. Some of that material is worth bringing across to the English article. Unfortunately the references are not readily available electronically, but when I get a chance I'll look at the current French literature and see if there is an easily available reference that discusses the broader usage. If I find one, I'll be happy to revise the article.

Santé - Williamborg (Bill) 00:34, 6 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Not a whole lot on the topic that suggests nonglacial usage in the English language. All of the references to cirques found, so far, refer to glacially formed cirques. I did find an interesting quote in Geology letters that sets the tone (doi: 10.1130/0091-7613(1986)​14<1053:L>​2.0.CO;2 v. 14 no. 12 p. 1053-1054 by David A. Rothery; The Open University; Milton Keynes, MK7 6AA, England): "amphitheater is a better term than cirque, corrie, or cwm since, unlike them, it does not imply glacial origin." This suggests that in English the term cirque is closely associated with glacial processes.
 * I'll chat with a professional geologist who has worked on glaciers to see if he has any recommendations.
 * Skål - Williamborg (Bill) 02:26, 6 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Found a couple of references which support your usage and added a new section. Thoughts?
 * Skål - Williamborg (Bill) 01:05, 7 September 2012 (UTC)


 * And more

Noted your changes - and agree that slow movement is warranted.

This use of cirque is - I think - a relatively minor usage in English. But I'm mostly an inclusionist, so am good with adding the discussion since there are refereed technical articles that use the term cirque in the broader fashion.

I view the Wikipedia debate as a light version of what one sees in peer reviewed journal articles. Probably the biggest flaw with Wikipedia is that we have no established mechanism to assure that articles (and changes) get a peer review - however that is often offset for articles that are frequently read, so comments accrete and improvements occur. If we're lucky we'll get further debate here.

Cheers - Williamborg (Bill) 18:29, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

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 * Balm of Gilead (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
 * added a link pointing to Cork, Ireland


 * Cirque (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
 * added a link pointing to Burgundy

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GLAMcamp 15-16 September 2012
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Articles for deletion/Richard Tylman (5th nomination)
Just a minor technical comment: if you oppose deletion in AfD, it is customary to say Keep rather than Oppose. Oppose could also mean "oppose keeping". --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 16:17, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

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Help needed
Hi! I stumbled upon one of your images on Commons. Could you please add some information and maybe a category or two? Here's the problem child: commons:File:2006SweepsSide.JPG. Thanks a bunch! :-)) -- Hedwig in Washington (TALK) 03:25, 18 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Done.--ClemRutter (talk) 18:36, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Richard Tylman
Could you please re-consider your statement that any future AfD would be my sixth. I have only made one previous AfD for this article, the others were by three separate editors. The previous AfDs were however for a different article about a Richard Tylman who is a Canadian artist. My Afd had overwhelming support, and the article was deleted. I would reply on the RfC discussion thread, but prefer not to fill it with distractions. TFD (talk) 16:29, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes- I see what you mean, so I have de-personalised it: though I do resent the time I am spending chasing around from page to page as the discussion is moved. No matter, the article is still in a dire state in spite of your best efforts to improve it. I have little time and a major Wiki backlog to clear but I'll try and step in later next week. I have stuck a Wikiproject Kent tag on it whicjh may attract a few more local editors. --ClemRutter (talk) 23:25, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

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Coordinates
Hi there! I have a quick question. Can I use the coordinates of a town as the coordinates of an institution in that town? For example, can I use the coordinates of Isfana as the coordinates of a high-school there? I enlarged this image and found the building. Is it possible to get the exact coordinates? Nataev (talk) 08:45, 29 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes. I describe how to do it on my user page. I have added a special bookmark to my Firefox browser. I put it on the bookmark tool bar. I call it '+'. Like you, I use Googe maps to find the building. I put it in the centre of the screen then press '+'. Up pops a notification box. Control-C to copy the location, move to the Wikipedia edit page and Control-V to write the location. It is as easy as that.
 * Preparing to Geotag files. On the bookmark tool bar, I have a bookmark called +, this contains javascript to extract WGS84 lat/log from a GoogleMap. The way it is done is to press Ctrl-D to open the bookmark dialogue. Change the name to +, change the location to Bookmarks/Toolbar.OK. Go to + on the Toolbar, Right click. Click Properties. Change the Location, paste in this code  javascript:void(prompt(,%22%22)); ''
 * That gives the reference for Commons. You can edit it to work for en:Wikipedia. You need to edit the region.
 *  javascript:void(prompt(,"")); ''


 * Here you are.


 * Thank you! But I'm at a loss honestly. It's rather complicated! I'll try though. Nataev (talk) 09:25, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Figured it out! Thanks a lot! Nataev (talk) 10:16, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes- doing Javascript extensions to the browser is a bit mind blowing- but once it is there you will use it hundreds of times or in my case thousands. Have fun.--ClemRutter (talk) 10:55, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

hello
we seem to be of a similar vintage on the project. i happen to agree with you re the dispute resolution silliness. it makes me sad that we're spending so much time and effort there instead of just being grownups. years ago (i don't remember how many actually) i mostly walked away from the project because i was sick of all the silliness. every time i come back and actually log in, i'm re-confronted with a new set of jihads about someone's private red tape. it's just astonishing. anyways, i suspect people will not take your comment too seriously or even acknowledge it, but i wanted to let you know i appreciate it. ... aa:talk 17:33, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

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Warehouses
An editor has started List of warehouses in Manchester. I have suggested merging it with Manchester cotton warehouses or maybe it should be the other way round. Any thoughts? J3Mrs (talk) 11:01, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * At the moment leave them as separate articles. The problem I have with list based pages is that there is no quality progression, and while Manchester cotton warehouses is short- it is now on focus and open to improvement. Adding to a list will terminate its development. Similarly it is good to see List of warehouses in Manchester but it only really covers the extant 19th/early 20th century warehouses and I suspect that when we bore a little deeper into the subject (from a commercial rather than an architecture perspective) the list will expand considerably- the author quotes 1,819 in 1815. In future, maybe we should revisit the decision, and other factors might seem more relevant. --ClemRutter (talk) 19:16, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

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Cottonopolis
Not all 1000+, just two parameters. Those warehouses that are listed in Manchester and pre-Edwardian. I'm planning to keep it as a list article - similar to the Grade I listed buildings in Greater Manchester and List of castles in Greater Manchester, which are both FL. It's a work in progress, I still need to write a decent introduction and find more photos. Stevo1000 (talk) 12:39, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Riots vs Ethnic Violence
Can you take a look at this article and say whether it should be renamed? Even though it's a very important subject currently there's little interest in it. Thank you. Nataev (talk) 08:43, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Ref
I noticed you started Harry S. Fairhurst :-). This might be useful. J3Mrs (talk) 18:02, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I was just on that page. I am doing this one for a bit of relaxation! --ClemRutter (talk) 18:29, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

30 articles
I agree with that a lot. We should have some system of allowing young authors to record their achievement. Victuallers (talk) 09:40, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

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Little Moreton Hall
May I ask a favour? I'm beginning to lose track of what still needs attention, so could I impose on you to provide a summary of what you think still needs to be addressed on the FAC page? George Ponderevo (talk) 04:37, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Lime-ash floor
Nice work on getting something together on lime-ash floors. I've made a start on timber roof trusses with a view to explaining what an arch-braced truss is, but that article needs mucho work. And I discovered from my reading today that much of what's written elsewhere is virtually incomprehensible without good diagrams, which can take some time to get right. But it's something I'll try and persevere with over the next few weeks, as I think it would be a good addition to our architectural coverage regardless of what happens to Little Moreton Hall's FAC. George Ponderevo (talk) 06:03, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * That was achieved by just buying the Hartley reference sheet! Two pounds well spent. No roof trusses is an incredibly big job. Get that one right and you can set up in business as a consultant.


 * Hartwell (2001) Manchester p350 has some in the Glossary. I have a 1937 book called Specification in Detail-by Macey which provides info to architects-and has lots of diagrams.  They are on pages 173-- 198, mainly. The English Heritage book  isbn 1-902916-03-4 Timber is a case study of dating the roofs at Lincoln Cathedral. Yarwood 1963 has many beautiful line drawings including Eltham Palace with a false hammerbeam truss roof. Serious work.


 * I know svgs don't render but could you upload them anyway- as it would give me opportunity to extend them and use the elements in other diagrams. This will be particlarly important for articles on roof trusses. Just a few thoughts. --ClemRutter (talk) 10:28, 29 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm already uploading the roof truss diagrams in svg format. There are some strange little quirks popping up when they're rendered on Wikipedia, such as arrow heads not always aligning correctly, but I think I've now got something that works.I need to amend the King post truss image slightly as I see I've made a small error in it, and I've started on the Queen post truss, after which I'll have a bash at the arch-braced truss that started this off. Once the basic trusses are in place it should be easier to create others by modifying them, hopefully. I need to find some historical info on the development and use of each type of truss as well, as the text is very thin at present, so thanks for the pointers above. George Ponderevo (talk) 13:50, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I am looking at he did the queen post diagram on the page- and had some conversation about uploading a modified version- so may be willing to assist. --ClemRutter (talk) 14:39, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * They're all raster graphics though, and what I want is a consistently styled set of SVGs. I also think his diagrams are more geared towards builders (not unreasonably), and so contain too much extraneous detail for our purposes. George Ponderevo (talk) 15:45, 29 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I've now added a graphic for the Queen post truss, which is the kind of thing I was talking about, a consistently styled graphic. Arch-braced truss soon to follow hopefully, but please feel free to improve on my amateur efforts; George Ponderevo (talk) 07:21, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

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Edit summaries
Could you please avoid personal attacks, when making edit summaries as you did here, when you reversed an edit I had made restoring another editor's removal of invalid external links. TFD (talk) 13:42, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I have copied this over to the Richard Tylman talk page where I had already posted some comments. --ClemRutter (talk) 14:46, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Faversham
Thanks for the invite. I lived for a time in Folkestone, and have been to Canterbury, Whitstable and Chatham, but unfortunately not Faversham, and am now far away and unlikely to visit in the near future. I keep meaning to visit on holidays but get overruled and go to Barbados instead.

Regarding paywalls, WP:Questia says, "Editors should not provide bare links to non-free Questia pages."

My opinion on this article has always been that there is too little information available. It would make more sense to start with an article about the mayors of Faversham, and a list of the mayors, then create individual articles where possible. In this case an editor wrote an article about himself, which was deleted then recreated the article about a person with the same name.

I also created an article about a mayor, Gilbert Cooper, a person I knew personally, who meets notability standards by several criteria. But I was surprised how little information I could find about him, although he had been one of the leading politicians and businessmen in Bermuda for a long time.

TFD (talk) 20:44, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

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Rochester sports
Clem, following your clean up of the external links there are a number of red links in Rochester, Kent. should they I start from the POV that rugby is a group of 20yo savages beating each other up and soccer is an opiate for the masses, so I really don't think I'm qualified to judge! Regards, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 14:22, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Have articles written about them (no, I'm not offering)
 * Be removed
 * Have the external links reinstated?
 * I don't think my views are quite so balanced. But the links are zapped, and an encouraging message left for future editors .. Sigh.--ClemRutter (talk) 16:48, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

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Hall house
Hi, ClemRutter, and many thanks for your note. I realized we were lacking this page nearly two years ago when I started Template:Architecture of England and have been meaning to get around to starting it since then, so I am afraid progress may be equally slow! Any help gratefully received. Moonraker (talk) 16:03, 15 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I see this is much improved, well done! Your plans are very good. Moonraker (talk) 02:10, 1 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The aim is now to take some of the given examples, C&P some details and use them to illustrate the points already made. Then the lede will need to be rewritten to reflect the changes. A section on the sociology of those in the vernacular zone in Brunskill's sixteen vernacular areas may then be appropriate. And this was a light distraction over the holiday period! Happy New Year. --ClemRutter (talk) 02:24, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

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