User talk:Cliveandrew

Welcome!
Hello, Cliveandrew, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created, such as Norman Toynton, may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines, and may not be retained.

There's a page about creating articles you may want to read called Your first article. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the New contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type helpme on this page, followed by your question, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few other good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Questions or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome!  Whispe ring  16:37, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Starting an article
 * Your first article
 * Biographies of living persons
 * How to write a great article
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * Help pages
 * Tutorial

Proposed deletion of Norman Toynton


The article Norman Toynton has been proposed for deletion because it appears to have no references. Under Wikipedia policy, this newly created biography of a living person will be deleted unless it has at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article.

If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Referencing for beginners, or ask at the help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the prod blp tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within ten days, the article may be deleted, but you can when you are ready to add one.  Whispe ring  16:37, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Sourcing is needed for this article
Thank you for helping to build Wikipedia. Articles on Wikipedia need to do the following:
 * They must show that the subject meets the relevant notability guideline. Please see the guideline Notability.
 * The content of articles must be supported with significant verifiable information from reliable, 3rd party sources not connected with the subject. If you could just list the sources for what we have, it would be a good start. You can use the links below to find sources.

Dloh cierekim  21:27, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * If Norman Toynton is deleted, you may want to use the Article Wizard to recreate the article once you have gathered enough content and sourcing.
 * Starting an article can help you.

Status and Advice
As reviewing administrator, I removed the deletion tag; the material here is referenced, though not with sufficient explicitness.

The special notability requirement for painters is WP:CREATIVE, and is met in this case by having works in major museums--but this has to be sourced, and the best sourcing is the museum's publications. There seem also to have been published discussions of his work, and they prove notability according to the basic criterion that applies to everything here, WP:GNG--again, the specific sources have to be fully & exactly indicated in every single case. They cannot just be listed at the end, but must be indicated by footnotes in the corresponding places in the text--for the usual technique, see our page, Referencing for Beginners

Even with exact quotations, the article should be about the person, as information, not as praise of his work. Thesort of critical writing common in this subject uses too many adjectives of praise for us, and needs to be toned down to a more sober and encyclopedic style, using selected quotes for emphasis. It helps to use plain English, not jargon such as "formative experience"  This is especially true about influences--if, for example,  he was particularly influenced by  the Jackson Pollock show at the Whitechapel in 1958, this needs a third party reference not based on what he said about himself. .

There is however one serious potential problem: none of it can be  copied from any pre-existing publication,web site, exhibition notice, or other source. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously; and does not accept material copied from other sources unless it is in the public domain, or released to us under a free license   (It is, by the way, not necessary for pages to have a notice to be copyright:  everything published on the internet or elsewhere is copyright to the owner of that content unless specified otherwise.) If it was copied, it might be possible to get permission according to WP:DCM,  but there is no point in doing so-- is sort almost always is unsuitable for WP, because it is usually written as a press release, praising rather than describing the subject and containing material we would not include. It is therefore always better to rewrite. Please be absolutely certain that in everything you have written, there is not just no copying, but no Close paraphrase. If there is, rewrite that part from scratch, changing not just the words, but the arrangement into sentences and the sequence of ideas.

I would advise you to take care of these things very quickly, because it is quite possible that the article will be nominated for deletion; it will probably not be deleted, but it is much better for it to be strong enough that it is not even questioned.