User talk:Cloveapple/Archive 1

Welcome!
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Happy editing and have a great day! :-) Akamad 19:48, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Adoption offer
Hi there. I saw you're looking for an adopter, and I'd be happy to help out. I've been on Wikipedia for over 3 years, and recently returned to active editing, I've got an adoption program with some basic lessons on key aspects of Wikipedia. Let me know on my talk page if you'd like to take me up on the offer. Cheers. Steven Zhang The clock is ticking... 07:18, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the Barnstar
Thank you very very much, it's my first burnstar in my career on Wikimedia ;-D ... Anyway, it's my style to personalize deletion (and similar) tags when possible, in a funny way. I'm happy you appriceated... I'll repeat soon :-) . Best of regards. --Dэя-Бøяg 18:12, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Help Request: Kevin Stea afd
Dear Cloveapple, I believe I have been posting to the wrong place for you since I have put things on the Talk:Kevin Stea site rather than here. So I will copy what I have done so far below. Your guidance is deeply appreciated as I learn more about working in wikipedia. You wrote:


 * The Talk:Kevin Stea page is fine. :-) It's ok to talk here too, but I have a personal preference for the talk page because then more people will see it. After all you never know who will help out with an edit or a comment or a source. And something posted there might help a future editor who would never look here. I'm not too worried about cluttering up the article's talk page because old talk page comments are archived.


 * I figured out what happened below and I understand why you did it. if you wanted to quote a bunch of stuff you could put it in quotes or link to it. But I wouldn't copy someone's signature again. It makes it look like I posted the stuff below here earlier in the day when I didn't. Probably not a huge deal now but it could easily be a big issue. I'm not going to remove it because I don't think anybody is supposed to change or remove posts on their talk page. (It's sort of a permanent record. You can draw a line through something in your own  post if you later change your mind but you can't remove it altogether.) Cloveapple (talk) 07:24, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

"Since some of his work is in Italy I've started Googling for sites in Italian that mention him. (If you go to the | advanced Google search you can set the language to Italian. Or you can use the | language tools to search.)

So far all I've got is |this picture of what I think is an Italian magazine article posted on his Facebook from a magazine called Casagrande. If you check the actual facebook page you should be able to download it. I'm not on facebook so I can't try that. (Yeah I know, I try to Google Italian sites and I get the guy's facebook page!! Sad.)" My responses:

Italian Sources
If you use Google.it, it is better to use a modifier with the name to get better results: Kevin Stea ballerino (Kevin Stea dancer), Kevin Stea articoli (Kevin Stea articles) or Kevin Stea di moda (Kevin Stea fashion) which will yield much better results. I am very grateful for your offer to brainstorm searching for acceptable sources to fill out the article. I have heard of Kevin Stea because I was the editor of the English language newspaper in Rome and at the time he was a fashion icon for Italian fashion designers, and was a hot Italian pop culture icon as part of the trio with Luca Tommassini and Lorella Cuccarini. Appearing every Sunday in a "sigla" (introductory olio) of the show Buona Domenica. (You couldn't pick up a teen magazine without some picture and gushy story). On TV (Rai2) he sang, danced, and performed comedy skits. I wonder if videos from that time are acceptable references? They can be found on several italian sites too. Also since this was 1994-1995 a lot occurred before the web got underway so it is hard to find things. For example, you can see he is the cover model for Cosmopolitan (european edition) and has features in many fashion magazines (Harper's Bazaar) etc., but these magazines are either out of print or do not have online archives. Would libraries have them? I look forward to brainstorming with you when I get home tonight so I can get a better handle on direction and technique. Thank you. 64.206.227.62 (talk) 23:11, 7 June 2011 (UTC)Greg McCombs Gmccombs (talk) 04:42, 8 June 2011 (UTC)Gmccombs

Italian sources (2)
BTW, The magazine is not called Casagrande, that is the name of the photographer. The magazine was called Beautiful (or Beautiful Magazine). Other magazines I remember are Chi and S4m (Sport for Men). I also can get you links to Tiramo News with an article from this year and an Italian site with an interview with Lorella Cuccarini looking back on her 25 year career and naming Kevin Stea (who worked with her only one year) as the most memorable "soulmate of a choreograpaher" in all of that time, though she did mention that she worked with another choreaographer for the past 16 years. (I worry about putting long posts on this talk page. Is there a better way to discuss things, offline perhaps?  69.181.192.117 (talk) 01:46, 8 June 2011 (UTC)Greg McCombs

International Sources
I want to figure out how to independently source the international impact of Mr. Stea's work. I know he has a devoted following in India, as part of the tour with India's megastar/singer A.R. Rahman. There are several articles in The Times of India, and I have a link to a video that A.R. Rahman made (which features Stea) as a Thank You to London for their tour there. The tour went thoughout southeast Asia and Canada, and I suppose the United States. There seems to be a fan base in Jakharta, Indonesia but navigating the indonesian sites is beyond me, even with google translator. There is a fan base in Australia, from work done there. I believe hx magazine would be the source for that. There is also a huge fan base in Japan for several reasons. One is the 1990 Blond Ambition Tour in Japan with Madonna. The other is the more recent tour with Japan's pop superstar Seiko Matsuda. The Mitsubishi (English site) on YouTube has every single Blond Ambition performance available on YouTube. I can even link to the Seiko Matsuda video with Mr. Stea. But there is a lot more in Japan, because Seiko Matsuda and Mr. Stea became involved in a national scandal... they did a Japanese commercial where they french kissed, she was topless, married with a kid. It aired every 2 minutes. Then the newspapers 'outed' Mr. Stea for being gay. He was her partner on the tour and also sang on that tour. But negotiating Japanese search engines to document this is way beyond me. I can't begin to figure out the alphabet even with translator. I wish there were a bi-lingual wikipedia editor who could help. Let me know if you have any brainstorms on what diirections to take... I will be compiling a list of links in these areas to get your opinion of what is considered the strongest independent source. Gmccombs (talk) 02:06, 8 June 2011 (UTC)Greg McCombs

Other Sources
There are articles in the NY Times, or photos at least, but it looks like you have to pay the Times to look at them. But is there a way to link to them? If we could somehow link to the NY TIMES we'd find his photo for the romeo gigli G.Gigli (fashion) show back for fall/winter 1996 and again on the front of the arts section, and again with Naked Boys singing (this picture was chosen as the poster for the Movie.) Also there must be a way of documenting that Stea won Star Search an unprecedented 10 Times in 1990 (a Dick Clark show with Ed McMahon) with the dance group New World. The $100,000 grand prize was won on a network television national competition with high ratings. Would that be a notable resource to document? Meanwhile, I'd like to rewrite the opening paragraph that an editor has put up for the article to correct a few things with independent sources. I'll try my hand at it and then ask you about those links too. Grazie. 02:29, 8 June 2011 (UTC)Greg McCombs — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gmccombs (talk • contribs)

Kevin Stea ftd: Revision of first paragraph
I wouldlike to rewrite the 1st paragraph to something like this which will establish two important things 1) He was the assistant choreographer and dance captain for Madonna, and 2) the lawsuit was withdrawn. Below this I have listed sources for the information:

'''Kevin Alexander Stea (born 17 October 1969) is an American dancer, choreographer, actor, singer, director and model. At the age of 20, he became widely known as the Assistant Choreographer and Dance Captain for Madonna’s Blond Ambition Tour and in the documentary about it, Madonna: Truth of Dare in 1990/1. On January 21, 1992, two dancers from the tour, Oliver S. Crumes, III and the late Gabriel Trupin, sued Madonna’s production company Boy Toy Inc., Miramax and Propaganda Films in Los Angeles Superior Court for fraud and invasion of privacy. When Stea, as Dance Captain, joined the suit, it became an item of international notoriety, to the extent that Stea appeared on the Maury Povich show to talk about the issue. The suit was withdrawn and settled amicably. [1][2][3][4][5]'''

SOURCES: Information about the lawsuit: http://absolutemadonna.com/?p=7726

Movie bio listing kevin stea as associate choreographer, dance captain and dancer for Blond Ambition tour… http://www.darkbluefilms.com/wildcat_bios.html

Resume AMCK London – listed as assistant choreographer for Blond Ambition http://www.amck.tv/includes/pdf/artist_cv.php?id=380

DancePlug professional site for dancers. Stea bio lists him as associate choreographer, dance captain and dancer for Blond Ambition tour… http://www.danceplug.com/kevin-stea

IMDb database (other works) lists him as assistant choreographer and dance captain for Blond Ambition tour: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0824084/otherworks

Listed as dance captain and dancer for Blond Ambition by this organization: http://sharetv.org/person/kevin_alexander_stea

NOTE: If none of these sources for dance captain is valid, I’ll bet I could get a statement for the tour’s main choreographer to these facts, could he put that on wikipedia in discussion? Would that help?

Source for dismissal of lawsuit – Hartford Curant: http://articles.courant.com/1994-10-02/entertainment/9409300079_1_madonna-gabriel-trupin-oliver-crumes

The lawsuit is also discussed in the Asiance Magazine article which is now part of the references that they took from my first list and added. Interestingly, one of the sources used for the lawsuit is the book by Madonna’s brother. In the Asiance article there is reference to this book and a reference that the brother apologized to Mr. Stea for the lurid coverage by saying… “It was such a long time ago.” Also in this article Stea points out that he wasn’t a part of the original lawsuit filing, but joined it later.

Also, you noted that there was a picture on facebook but you are not on facebook and cannot download it. The same pictures are on his website kevin@kevinstea.com and can be downloaded from there. I have been using the 8 page resume from this site to help me do searches for independent sources. Maybe the resume should be added to the pages too somehow?

Please tell me what you think and what the next steps might be. Gmccombs (talk) 04:38, 8 June 2011 (UTC) Gmccombs

Response
Thank you for responding with more information. I apologize for my ignorance, since I am just learning how things work. I am fascinated by the wiki process though, I must say. People are so good at research and know how to write so well. They are also so well versed in policies that what they have done to date to improve the article has truly impressed me. I realize I will not be able, at this time to figure out how to make a reference to underscore the facts in a sentence, but I can see that is what makes the article in wikipedia so good, because you can follow references to each assestion and judge the information for yourself. again, I will remember about copying other people's remarks, and simply reply. Gmccombs (talk) 01:53, 9 June 2011 (UTC)Gmccombs
 * Don't worry. I think I've done something foolish looking a few times now and I'm sure I'll do more. I'm fascinated by the Wikipedia process and culture too. I've only just found a beginner's guide to adding references at WP:REFSTART and added my first halting reference. Cloveapple (talk) 02:03, 11 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the WE|ADOPT lead. I will check it out. I am going to follow a suggestion from someone on the talk page and make my first reference attempts to the article since I found some edited news sources to verify statements. For Italy I have an Italian newspaper (an article from 2008), two Italian Magazines (references the 1995 career), and the Hartford Curant newspaper article about the 1992 lawsuit and its dismissal, and I think they are reliable sources. However, the first 3 are in Italian. Do I translate their titles in the reference? Is there a guideline for using foreign references? Doing research does take a long time. I wonder how much time there is to make this article better?  I have looked at other articles too that are referenced in this one and I think some of the sources I found can make them better as well.  Some of the articles on Madonna's Tours are hardly sourced at all and there are notes on those areas.    Gmccombs (talk) 07:07, 11 June 2011 (UTC) Gmccombs
 * I'm not sure about the non-English references. WP:NOENG & Citing_sources give a partial answer. I'd say to ask about a specific example at the Help Desk at WP:HELPDESK.
 * As for time, an Afd lasts at least 7 days. I've seen one get extended but I've no idea how common that is. Even if the decision isn't to keep the article there's a couple ways of working on it and then re-trying. (I suggested one of those ways at the Afd.) And once the Afd is over you have plenty of time. It's a common joke that Wikipedia has no deadline.
 * The new Italian sources are exciting. They give you a chance to show that he's known for more than suing Madonna (which from my point of view would just make him a bit player in one of her articles). Cloveapple (talk) 07:34, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Japanese Sources
The tour of Japan with Mr. Stea and Matsuda Seiko was called the Glorious Revolution Tour from May-September 1993, I believe. I do note that the CD compilation from the tour was released in 1994 so I may be wrong on the year. The controversial commercial that they made that caused a national stir was for Takano Yuri salon, so these names might help find references. Gmccombs (talk) 19:08, 11 June 2011 (UTC)Gmccombs
 * Other Asian References This Matsuda tour also went to Indonesia and I can find almost indecipherable references on what looks like Indonesian google and wikipedia. But while researching the topic, I discovered why his appearance in the 1990 Disney movie Newsies was so notable.  He is chinese and his appearance in the movie became a milestone in that he was an Asian playing in a non-stereotyped role. As an early role model for Asian actors, I can see that there ia a hollywood social group called "Team Yellow" and they seem to all be friends and have dinners once a year. But beyond discussion on social sites, I fear I cannot find news material on this topic. A further Asian reference, that also involves his modelling career, is that he is the model used in Photographer David LaChappelle's current exposition on Chinese Pop Culture and Bruce Lee which opened in Hong Kong just last month. There is a video on his site of David LaCapelle making these works, and the David LaChapelle site on the Hong Kong Show has the pieces available for online viewing. However, I don't think links to the video and a viewing of the show pieces is enough and would have to find news articles about the show in Hong Kong journals. As I continue researching this article I am truly impressed by the vast variability in this man's career. Gmccombs (talk) 19:35, 11 June 2011 (UTC)Gmccombs
 * Oops. Should have told you. The University library won't be open again till Monday, so I won't have a chance to follow up on the Japanese newspaper indexes till then. Cloveapple (talk) 01:18, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Ago Oba
Thanks - I may take a shot at fixing it. Although not immediately obvious, the article is not about a living person but about a place and a group of people. The named source, Dr. Lateef Adegbite, does appear to be an expert on Egba history, so this very garbled account probably is based on genuine oral history. I don't know if much of this version can be preserved, but there may as well be an article on the subject. A challenge to make it meaningful though. Aymatth2 (talk) 19:50, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm just glad to know you understand some of it. It looked like something real and important. I also left a note at the Nigeria Wikiproject so maybe someone else will chime in. Cloveapple (talk) 23:18, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I added clippings of stuff about the place and then, reluctantly, removed the story. According to the original article, in May 2011 someone called Adegun Sanyaolu was given a minor chiefly title in a village (not in GeoNames but I think I found it) to the south of Ago Oba. Probably true, but I can't find a source. There are literally tens of thousands of titles like this, often for sale to the highest bidder. The story then skips back to Sanyaolu's ancestor Opadipo, whose husband Lademo moved to the village from Ago Oba many years ago, and talks about their family. The family legend part draws on a book or article by Lateef Adegbite, for whom I will start an article, and may well be true. But I can't find any trace of the legend online, and neither the legend nor the new chief seem particularly notable. Aymatth2 (talk) 01:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Too bad about the story, but it's still a nice rescue job. it's good to see more spots on the map get filled in. It boggles my mind that my small American hometown has a growing article with multiple editors while big cities elsewhere have so many gaps in their covereage. Cloveapple (talk) 19:14, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 * There are huge gaps - but that leaves room for random editors like me who see an article as a sort of verbal jigsaw puzzle with different web sources holding the pieces, and prefer puzzles where they have no idea what the picture will turn out to look like. :~) Aymatth2 (talk) 19:49, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Re:
It's okay, everyone makes mistakes. Hurricanefan25 (talk) 22:53, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

PassmoreLab
I just spent a great deal of time correcting all the ref formats in the article, neutralizing its tone, and converting a bullet list to encyclopdedic prose. Perhaps you might look in and double-check my work. Thanks,  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 04:48, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm so glad you tackled that. I'd been eyeing it and trying to figure out how to sort it out, but I hadn't done more than pull out some of the stuff that seemed most out of place. I'll take a look at the current version by tomorrow.Cloveapple (talk) 20:00, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It was a task... as each had to be researched to see if it supported the statement as intended, and then set into proper format. I actualy replces a few with better ones. A bit more grunt work than I would have liked, but it's done. :)  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 21:21, 5 July 2011 (UTC)


 * A thought.... as the article is new, I think one of this company's "firsts" might make a decent DYK.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 21:26, 5 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Good job. Thanks.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 00:33, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. Sorry I was so slow. I only just realized what a tight time line DYKs have. (I'm still learning.) Cloveapple (talk) 00:39, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Your new article Igor Begelman
I see you created the new article Igor Begelman. This article looks very well put together. There is a good number of citations and references. As you know, Wikipedia is not just an "encyclopedia", it's a "community" as well and there will always be resources to help you along your way. Jipinghe (talk) 21:33, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much. :) It's nice to get some feedback. Cloveapple (talk) 16:06, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

VANDALISM WARNING: Your REMOVAL of content in an article Cheney Mason
Cloveapple, please be advised that your removal of certain content in the Cheney Mason article is considered vandalism. In this vein, unfortunately, I must issue a warning to you as part of the prerequisite procedures to initiate blocking (should that unfortunate action be necessary as the next step). Specifically, the removal of the unfavorable fact of Mason's having allegedly extended his middle finger in an obscene manner, as photographed by an AP photographer, upon the acquittal of his client, Casey Anthony, in the infamous murder trial is pertinent public information; it's an infamous incident, and it needs to stay public. Other users and I have spent time creating and updating the article, and we can only come to believe your reason for the removal is done for a non-legitimate, ulterior motive, even though you may believe you had good intentions. (There is an established process for the objective removal of certain content, but it cannot be done unilaterally by you.) Please do not take offense to this warning. Diligent007 (talk) 21:36, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I do not believe my edit was vandalism. I gave a reason in my edit summary which quoted a Wikipedia policy on sourcing (WP:USERGENERATED). At the time I removed the statement it was not backed by a reliable source that was in line with Wikipedia's policy for sources, and it was a BLP. I would also like to remind you that a very basic part of Wikipedia is to assume good faith on the part of other editors. So please do not make negative assumptions about my editing motives. I AM one of the editors who "have spent time creating and updating the article". I do appreciate you coming here to discuss the matter if you felt my edit was "off", but I would prefer a less confrontational approach. Cloveapple (talk) 05:13, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * PS. I am going to place the admin help template here to get a neutral opinion just in case I am in the wrong and should have been warned. Did I mess up that badly?? If so I want to know. Cloveapple (talk) 05:28, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * No, your removal was not vandalism. I do not express any opinion as to whether this material should be included in the article, which is a content dispute and a question of the application of WP:UNDUE, and should be settled by discussion on the article talk page or by posting at the WP:BLP/N notice-board. I note that Diligent007 continued to edit-war on the question, was reverted by a number of other editors, and given a final warning for 3RR here. JohnCD (talk) 09:10, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for the feedback. Cloveapple (talk) 14:39, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Adopt-a-typo
I am a member of the typo team, and have only been actively editing for a few months. However, when I joined the typo team there seemed to be a need for a collection of adopted typos. Therefore, I have started the adopt-a-typo project. However, I could still use some help getting it off the ground, and any ideas or corrections are welcome.  Majestic Pyre My Speech Bubble  22:52, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * My feedback right now is on the adopt a typo user box. When I first put it on my user page it had quite different content. Do I really have to get a sex change and create a separate user page with a preassigned name just for my typo collection?! Since I'm not going to do either one, I'll be removing the user box from my page for right now. I'll still keep searching for typos though. :-) Cloveapple (talk) 15:48, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I took a second look and it doesn't look like I ever added the code for this user box. I don't have the code on my user page. The adopt a typo userbox is showing up where my [Wikipedia:Adopt-a-user|Adopt-a-user] user box should be.  It used to display who I was adopted by. Some kind of bug? Cloveapple (talk) 17:08, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I am so sorry about that, minor glitch in the system. I think I fixed the problem.... let me know if you have anymore issues with it.  Majestic Pyre My Speech Bubble  15:04, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem. Thanks for fixing it. Got to admit it confused the heck out of me, since I do have a typo search collection but hadn't placed the user box. Your project interests me and I hope it flourishes.


 * I would suggest two alternate wordings/versions of the userbox to add to the funny male one you've already made: a gender neutral one and a female one. I've seen a few WikiProjects that have more than one user box version to let people choose. Cloveapple (talk) 17:38, 8 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks, That is a great Idea. I am going to take your advice and create two more. :)  Majestic Pyre My Speech Bubble  17:53, 8 August 2011 (UTC)


 * On your first comment, you mentioned that you weren't willing, or at least didn't wat to make another user page. When I created the first box, the userpage feature was more of a quick link to use to get around. I still like it, but do you think I should get rid of it? P.S. I added those userboxes, let me know your thoughts on and.


 * I like the two new userboxes.


 * My issues with the specific user page link were that it forced me to put my typo list on a seperate user page, forced me to dedicate that second user page just to typos, and then chose the name for the page. It sort of felt like somebody rearranging my desk. I wouldn't want a seperate typo search page because I have a few systemic bias searches that I'd want to keep near the typos. Also I tend to be an "Oooh shiny!" editor that zooms in on new ideas as things catch my eye and forgets the project of a moment ago. The more user pages I have the more easilly I can loose track of stuff. A page for each seperate thing I do would be a nightmare. Those are things that might not bother someone else. Cloveapple (talk) 07:58, 9 August 2011 (UTC)


 * That's sort funny, I am the opposite. I like to have a user page for every tiny thing, but then string them together so I don't lose them. I try never to have to type anything to get anywhere. If I can't click on a link to it, its not done.

Talkback
Bgwhite (talk) 21:03, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Cleaning up Wikipedia...
Hiya! I noticed you're running around helping to clean up Wikipedia (between editing all over the place). Nice job! Just don't forget to notify people of speedy deletion tagging and such. I don't know if you've checked out Twinkle but it automates a lot of that (will tag the page and notify the author - as well as a plethora of other functions, including revert-AGF and revert-vandal which will auto open the user's talk page so you can leave a note (also through Twinkle, with the article name already filled in)). Best, Rob R OBERT M FROM LI &#124; TK/CN 03:40, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I've been trying to remember the notifications. Sometimes the history is actually gone before I can get to the creator's page. Do you know if I can do Twinkle on an iPad? I do the majority of my editing on the pad. Cloveapple (talk) 03:46, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Hiya, though I've never tried it, if it fully supports the Javascript and css needed, I would presume so. Though, there are some browser s (which claimed full support) that it did not work on for a long time (until fixes for that particular browser were written). Anyway, can't hurt to try. Another trick is to use multiple tabs - I open the article in a separate tab so if need be, I can go back to the unchanged (as of yet) NewPages list and look for the creator or other information. Best, R OBERT M FROM LI &#124; TK/CN 04:59, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of Drchopras for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Drchopras is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Drchopras until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. The Mark of the Beast (talk) 04:47, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the notice. If you were trying to notify the article creator, that was not me (though I am seeing if I can improve it). Cloveapple (talk) 04:50, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

The Guidance Barnstar

 * Wow, my first barnstar! Thank you. :-) Cloveapple (talk) 19:18, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
Bgwhite (talk) 08:56, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks
for posting that intro at my talk page, Cloveapple. I'm sure it will be quite useful. Cognitio ipsum (talk) 00:11, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. Happy exploring. Cloveapple (talk) 13:53, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

TUSC token ca52d0aac467e707c8eb0767fb91e6d1
I am now proud owner of a TUSC account!

wecome
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wlmmcf (talk • contribs) 08:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Mail
→ Σ  τ  c. 09:07, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

migdia chinea
Hi -- just a quick response. There were some articles about the WGA/CBS case comtemporaneously, in the Los Angeles Times and other publications -- -- but all of those have disappeared from the radar because it's been long and things are often removed, as was the long and extensive Heterodoxy piece written by Lloyd Billingsley -- for one. I've tried to find certain articles for myself, but have been unable to even get other than microfiche. Some people have passed on. That's why the articles cannot be found on line -- but a while ago, when the page was put together by Alarob and various other people, the articles were available. I was recently surveyed on my opinion of the Wikipedia free-lance editors. This was angled on the fact that there are few women involved in this process. I do find this process very daunting and have become frustrated with the twisting of my efforts and the removal of clarification and everything else. This is simply not fair. I guess that's why there aren't more women because this is not a very nice process and some of us do not have the expertise to comply technically, and with families and sick relatives, and personal responsibilities and the like, do not have the time to devote endless hours to respond to numerous requests and deletions.

Therefore, if you wish to delete my page for lack of any available or more current information, I can't stop you. I was one of maybe two people in the history of entertainment intiating a class action lawsuit against the industry's discrminatory practices --n that I'm a hispanic woman who had a career at the time makes it even more poignant, perhaps. It's much easier to hide behind relative anonymity.

Recently a number of older professional screenwriters sued several entertainment concerns for ageism and won $70 million plus dollars. But as must be the case, time passes by and incidents are erased and/layered with time and forgotten. Not forgotten by me so much because I have had to live with the notion of being blacklisted and I've had to try my luck elsewhere -- sometimes without much luck. I'm very fortunate that I was able to make a short film that has been very well received. I worked very hard on it. But I ask you to, please, don't make me go through any more of this endless back and forth because I simply don't have the energy. It's clear to me why more women are not involved in Wikipedia. Instead of support, we find many roadblocks. This is meant in the best possible way that I can say it -- although much gets lost in good intentions and words. The word "friendly" does not in any manner make something that isn't right, right. Friendly fire comes to mind. The end result is the same. Thank you -- Mig (talk) 22:21, 10 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Microfiche sources are fine. Heck they are better than fine. There is NO requirement that sources need to be online. Library sources get used all the time on Wikipedia. This is the first time you've mentioned the Heterodoxy coverage to me. If you know of any specific dates or article titles for newspaper or magazine coverage I'd be thrilled.


 * I think you may have confused me with somebody else?? Migdia Chinea Varela is the only article connected to you that I've worked on. I've never tried to delete it. I did the opposite. I did my best to make the article delete-proof. I spent time digging through library newspaper databases for newspaper sources and went to my city library to get a copy of your My Turn essay from Newsweek. All my edits have been because I'd like the article to survive.


 * This next part is a bit blunt, but I'm trying very hard to be as clear as possible.


 * I have never asked you to edit any of the articles about you. I couldn't "make" you do that if I wanted to. It would probably be easier for other editors to work on the article if you didn't directly edit the article about yourself. It also might be less stressful for you. Directly editing an article about yourself is discouraged on Wikipedia. It's a very tricky thing to do. Editing an article about yourself is probably the bumpiest, roughest road you could drive on Wikipedia. However, you do have the right to edit Migdia Chinea Varela, and if you choose to edit it of course I will work with you.


 * If you choose not to directly edit the article there are still several officially approved ways you can suggest changes or new content. If you want to learn about them I'd be glad to share them. If you choose to disengage entirely that's a valid choice too.


 * If you want help understanding some of Wikipedia's odder processes I'd be glad to help. Just ask. Other people have helped me and I want to pass that on. I noticed that another editor told you that he thought you were ignoring what more experienced editors were telling you. I don't know if you are ignoring advice and rules or if you are just confused. I'm guessing it's a matter of confusion. Wikipedia does have a steep learning curve. I'm still learning my own way around some parts of it.


 * So if the problem is confusion, I'm willing to explain as long as you're willing to listen. I'm willing to answer questions or give examples. There are also official mentoring programs on Wikipedia. I'm enrolled in one now.


 * If the problem is that you want Wikipedia articles to be fundamentally different than they are, that's harder. I can't change Wikipedia to be something it's not. It's never going to tell your story as authentically as you yourself can tell it. That's your mission. Wikipedia's mission is to mirror what the broader world says about various topics (including you). I continue to reccommend that you get a web page somewhere to tell your story on. It's a story worth sharing. (If you want suggestions for a simple easy to use website I can ask around for reccommendations.)


 * I hope some of that helped. Cloveapple (talk) 08:18, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

GOT YOUR MESSAGE, CLOVEAPPLE
I apologize for sounding stressed. I'm shooting another film and there are a number of logistical decisions. I'm also the producer, so the buck stops here and everything comes from me. I know you're trying hard and your response tells me that you were sensitive to what I was trying to convey. I will try over time to come up with the information that was available back when the page was created, but it's often difficult. There was an article by Lloyd Billingsley on Heterodoxy, a magazine published by David Horowitz in 1999. An article by Roger Hernandez entitled "Invisible Hispanics" in a King Features Syndicate publication in 1999. Articles on Hispanic Business out of Santa Barbara, several of them, in fact, and the Los Angeles Times - ditto. As time passes these things disappear. Roger passed away. It's sad for all of us. There was also lots of information on the Writers Guild page, but I'm afraid all of that is lost. Thanx for your response -- I will be in touch:)Mig (talk) 14:06, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

More on the above
Hi again -- the following page was deleted -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(Street_Meat)-- they came after it big big guns and personal remarks. I wish to go on record that this experience was personal and has had a stifling effect. When the article on the Huffington Post is published, I'll bring it here for your consideration -- I'll send myself a link to your page here because I find it difficult to find all the scattered remnents of "talk." I still think that this way too contentious a forum for calm and logical input. My friend Cloveapple, if you wish or have time to take a look at the last page for "anonymous (street meat)", it would be nice.

In regards to that lawsuit again, I know that there was a lot more coverage than is now available. However, we must remember that CBS and the Guild would have an interest in burying or quieting down all discussion on the issue for obvious reasons. The article on Heterodoxy by Lloyd Bilingsley goes into that insiduous blacklisting by the Guild, which is known for blacklisting writers during the McCarthy era, for example. If there's material on the McCarthy period, and I'm sure there is, you may see similarities in behavior. In any event -- I'm proud of my work on "anonymous (street meat)" and believe that it deserves a page, which is a heck of a lot more than other pages for projects or people who have done nothing socially relevant. Thanks again --Mig (talk) 15:14, 18 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry you got hurt. The film is not Wikipedia's kind of "notable" though it might be some day. Saying that something isn't what Wikipedia calls notable isn't an insult.


 * I have two parents whom I both love. They have both done some amazing things and beat some serious obstacles. They both have stories worth telling. Only one of them is "notable". Should I get upset that Wikipedia is insulting one of my parents? No, it's no big deal. All it means is that one of them has lots of reliable coverage and might someday have a Wikipedia article. That's ALL it means. It doesn't say anything about their value as people or the value of their achievements.


 * Just like any other reference book Wikipedia has stuff it covers and stuff that's outside it's mission. If you submitted a short film to a full length film festival they would turn it down. If you submitted a color film to a black and white film project they would turn it down. It just wouldn't fit their mission.


 * I don't think you understand that the film article was breaking some major Wikipedia guidelines? The very first time I looked at it I thought "oh my god it's not going to last." I stayed off that article because there was nothing I could do to help it survive. It was clear it was going to be deleted from the very beginning. In spite of that several people put some work into it.


 * The other article should keep growing. I'm cheering for your film career. (I want to see Street Meat.) I'll keep adding things as sources appear. And sometime if things slow down for you a little and you have time to learn some of the basics about Wikipedia, I'd be glad to show you. Cloveapple (talk) 20:54, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Roger Hernandez "Invisible Hispanics"
Hi Cloveapple -- here's a quote from my wikipedia page "Later she filed a 138.6 million dollar class-action discrimination lawsuit against the WGAw and CBS in response to their implementation of a training program for minority writers that gave these trainees half pay." I think that it's important to note that this wasn't a program for all minorities -- only Hispanics -- and that it was intended to be for proffessional writers members of the Writers Guild in violation of the Minimum Basic Agreement, which is our contract with producers. Under the program, perofessional writers would get half of what was stipulated minimally in our contract. Because I did not wish to participate in this program, and my collaboration was required as Chair of the Writers Guild of America Hispanic Committee, I was blacklisted. I realize that a lot of time has passed. Had it not been for this half-pay, my career would have continued bumping along. It was effectively truncated and I'm now a student with hopes only to teach where I'm not clobbered. The decision NOT to work for half has affected and affects my life daily -- it has had a domino effect, first the career, then my marriage, then my having to take menial jobs to survive. It's been difficult, to say the least. With the word "later," it reads like I filed a frivolous lawsuit or that I'm flaky. It was not and I was not the only person who signed the class action. In a way this is misleading. Hate to rehash stuff -- but that's the truth and it's only too depressing that most articles on this issue -- like "Invisible Hispanics" by the late Roger Hernandez (King Syndication) have disappeared from the web radar because it offers a more complete picture. BTW, some Hispanics were too busy acepting half pay and badmouthed me and those who would not work for half.

Please, let me know -- kind regards, Mig (talk) 17:35, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Did a search and found this: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=861&dat=19990924&id=oJEqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=SFoEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5183,5321810

Mig (talk) 17:49, 24 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Sweeet! A source that specificly mentions the blacklist! I've given it a quick read and for sure it should be used in the article. I'm pretty sure the reason I used the word "minorities" was because that's what at least one (maybe two?) of the sources said. I'll go back and take a look at the references to see if I slipped up.


 * Believe me, I know that the article is choppy and has gaps. These reflect huge gaps in the sources I was able to find. I believe the word "later" papers over one of those yawning gaps. I'm not defending the article as "pretty" or "smooth" because it's not. A little of the choppiness also reflects my own learning curve as I get better with Wikipedia's house style and writing guidelines. If I was allowed to do original reasearch or express personal opinions it would be easy to make the article flow, but as it is I'm still learning how to make the writing flow within the strict Wikipedia guidelines about sourcing and neutrality.Cloveapple (talk) 19:35, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

YOU'RE GREAT
Don't be modest. I truly appreciate your help and trust you understand what is going on and what has been going on. Poor Roger -- he was so trying to convey the problems inherent in this Hispanic dilemma. I now regret not having worked for half. My principles have caused me too many problems and here I am.

MORE!
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/Articles/1994%20April%20Vol%202,%20No%208.pdf

Here's the Billingsley Heterodoxy article, you need to scroll down to "Half Pay Hispanics" to read it in its entirety. It covers a lot of territory and it's not easy to find, so maybe there's a reason for everything. There's a fire at the school's science building. But my TFT dept. is far away from that area. And here I am -- kind regards, always --Mig (talk) 20:09, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

LA TIMES letter refers to founder of WGA Latino Writers Committee
http://articles.latimes.com/1995-03-19/entertainment/ca-44408_1_tv-and-latinos-latino-based-scripts

Greg Braxton's LA Times Article
http://articles.latimes.com/1995-03-05/entertainment/ca-39021_1_latino-community

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-10-20/local/me-52345_1_latino-writers

Chon Noriega's book -- Chon is a Professor of Chicano Studies at UCLA:

http://books.google.com/books?id=NxSL7R5qgkgC&pg=PA246&lpg=PA246&dq=greg+braxton's+latino+brownout+migdia+chinea&source=bl&ots=0zVyinsB2s&sig=KEkJiok5qFfSw7YRCKpyti8wAFA&hl=en&ei=DNSlTs6BM4b8iQKbtvlX&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Julio Vera & Migdia Chinea's LA Times letter
http://articles.latimes.com/1995-03-12/entertainment/ca-41655_1_tv-and-latinos-latino-presence-latino-writers-committee

More trivia about the case:

http://www.allbusiness.com/services/motion-pictures/4847868-1.html

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view.action?id=6006944208 Mig (talk) 00:02, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Congressional testimony -- Mig (talk) 03:39, 25 October 2011 (UTC) http://books.google.com/books/about/Hearing_on_oversight_of_the_Equal_Employ.html?id=kB00AAAAIAAJ

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-28419463.html

Mig (talk) 14:57, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Scroll to Judge boots out discrimination case
http://bankrupt.com/CAR_Public/990520.MBX Mig (talk) 13:17, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Would it be possible to put an "under construction" sign on this page. I'm embarrassed by what it reads on top. Thanx so much! Mig (talk) 20:52, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

More
Perspective from the other side...

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=3691 Mig (talk) 17:08, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

AMAZING ARTICLES
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-24989765.html

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-24989768.html Mig (talk) 18:15, 26 October 2011 (UTC) Mig (talk) 18:19, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thank you. It was good to get home after a rough day at work and find this waiting for me. :-) Cloveapple (talk) 20:26, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Usertalk:Shannagrier
A tag has been placed on Usertalk:Shannagrier, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a redirect to an article talk page, file description page, file talk page, MediaWiki page, MediaWiki talk page, category talk page, portal talk page, template talk page, help talk, user page, user talk or special page from the main/article space.

If you can fix the redirect to point to a mainspace page, please do so and remove the speedy deletion tag. However, please do not remove the speedy deletion tag unless you are fixing the redirect. If you think the redirect should be retained as is for some reason, contest the deletion by clicking on the button that looks like this: which appears inside of the speedy deletion  tag (if no such tag exists, the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate). Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the article's talk page directly to give your reasons. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. DASHBot (talk) 06:02, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

We love you!

 * Aawww, thank you.


 * I'll check it out.


 * Forgive me for some unsolicited advice, but I'm concerned that you might get blocked from editing so I'm going to tell you what I'd do if I was in your shoes. Don't edit any articles at all for now. Wait until your life has slowed down at least a tiny bit. When you have time for it I'll help you find somebody to mentor you. After you have done a little work with a mentor and understand the rules you should be able to edit articles just fine.


 * Best of luck in Film Land Cloveapple (talk) 05:00, 21 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm starting a new shoot in a few days and thinking logistically. I'm not editing anything at all -- I'm adding to the list of articles here because I'm finding all these things for some reason that I had not seen in a long time.  I wish I hadn't -- it's soooooooooooo bummerish.  Kind regards -- Mig (talk) 00:20, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for finding all these. It might be a little while till I give all the new sources the serious attention they deserve, but I will. To get a feel for the overall shape of what the article needs to cover I need to read them all over together and then re-read the older ones.


 * I understand how it could be a bit of a downer to dig them up. I have periods of my own life that I don't enjoy going back to. I should give you a heads up that at some time the article might have a comment from the viewpoint of your legal adversaries just because they are part of the story. This doesn't mean I'll ever try to tilt the article "against" you. I hope every editor who works on it will try to keep it fair and reflecting the sources as well as possible, but it might have some uncomfortable stuff in it.


 * Thanks again, Cloveapple (talk) 05:24, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

please read
All of this is uncomfortable stuff for me. But it bears remembering that I made scant contemporaneous comments precisely because I did not wish to be quoted making remarks that were personal or angry. But the other side could not do much but resort to personal and vindictive. To be fair, the editor here would have to put the good with the bad. Convicted swindler Bernie Madeoff probably also has a good side and did what he did for altruistic reasons, correct? To help people out? But for those who were taken in and lost everything, bad and abusive was/is bad and abusive.Mig (talk) 13:37, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes. There's not much -- couldn't find the in chanbers record in which Letts makes his comment about "if you can get something for half, why would you pay full price?" in his and the network's defense of a program that was created to pay half of what the union stipulated in the MBA contract with the union's approval and in violation of said contract. So his position made little sense, since that was the point "if you can get something for half, why would you pay full price?" The argument was precisely about how half-pay undermined anyone getting full pay and -- apparently -- the judge didn't read the brief sufficiently, or understood the basics, or thought that the case was too unimportant to consider the implications to the "real" non-Hispanic writers (a point made by Vera in his letter to the Times) -- especially, in the face of the real serious big guns behind the program's defense which had been cloaked under the banner of "affirmative action." This, at a time when the stats on the empoyment of Hispanic professional writers were so low and embarrassing, they were being inflated artificially by the "altruism" of those who believed half-pay was all Hispanics could aspire to get, and would get, if at all. And they did want to force me into the program because I was the Founder and Chair of the Guild's Latino Writers Committee. In sum, the Hispanics' collective intellectual "inferiority" was rather hammered in by this judge who talked greatly in chambers about his golf game -- a conversation in which he engaged in numerous other cases, as the recpord shows Mig (talk) 17:02, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Mig, I have read all your notes. I read the emails too. I am not saying I am going to seek out out tabloid-style nastiness about you. I was just trying to make sure that you understood that a Wikipedia article is supposed to aim for neutrality and reflect the sources. In some ways that protects you. In other ways it might annoy you. For example, in the past the need to follow sources kept out some unsourced personal information that you said you didn't want in, but it also didn't allow some family history that you would have preferred to have in the article.
 * To me all of this is obvious, but I don't know how much of Wikipedia's basics you understand so I was trying to state the obvious. Cloveapple (talk) 07:21, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Huffington Post Article
Mig (talk) 15:43, 10 November 2011 (UTC)Hi Clove -- here's the Huffington Post article -- I don't care about publicizing my family history -- although I'm proud of my family and it is contextual. I am stressed that some comments made about me in a wikipedia-related email (I thought it was email) called gendergap are googleable and the stubs quite damaging. I also made some comments, but never mentioned anyone's name or moniker and never said anything damaging -- but on both sides, everything is completely out of context. You know, Clove, I was trying to be informative about "anonymous (street meat)" mainly because of its implications about the banks. When I opened the page, I did it with my best intentions. This has turned into a nightmare for me. I'm glad the page is available to me as a user's page. But I'm afraid to touch it.

And the page on me in which you have worked over time lost some of the citations that I have provided here. There was never any tabloid information because since there was a pending class action, the other side was being careful, I presume. So I got just about all there was at the time -- the pros and the cons, so to speak. This is so that when you put the page together, you will be able to draw contemporaneous information. There are certain assumptions or comments made here that will make it difficult for me to get work if people continue to make them and repeat them and they become "truth." I am concerned about getting employed because I don't have anyone on whom to depend for a living. I work very hard and I'm an easy target for some in many ways, physical, as well as emotional. Self-promotion goes hand in hand with entertainment, but I'm hardly one of the Kardashians. I went back to school and it's been truly hard physically -- long commute -- having to put my "former" entertainment career aside so that teachers don't feel threatened by someone who has worked as a pratical matter more than some of them have. All that while battling the bank coming after me due to their own abusive nature (with laws in their favor and no oversight) and a series of unfortunate incidents completely outside of my control and completely ignored by the powers-that-be no matter how hard I tried. I thank you and, pleadse, feel free to get in contact with me regarding any matter contained herein in which I might be helpful or anything you feel like asking me.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-cubias/are-the-banks-still-comin_b_1076388.html Regards, Mig (talk) 15:50, 8 November 2011 (UTC) Mig (talk) 15:43, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Autobiography tag
BTW, Clove, would it be possible to remove the following (below) announcement from the page, since what is there I did not "extensively edited" The page is not even one full edit long to qualify for extensive. I have not done that even to correct erroneous or misleading information -- I know of no "institution" editing this. And you and I certainly do not know each other -- "This article is an autobiography, or has been extensively edited by the subject or an institution related to the subject. Please help edit it to conform to Wikipedia's neutral point of view, in line with the discussion on the talk page. (October 2011)" Thank you and kind regards, Mig (talk) 15:32, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I actually removed the tag once in favor of a lower-key talk page note. My reasoning for removing the tag was that others had re-edited the article to fit guidelines, that you seemed to have quit editing the article, and that I hoped that you had begun to follow the Conflict of Interest guidelines. Also big tags on articles are for things that are current problems in an article. Since you seemed to no longer be editing the article I figured it could be treated as a solved problem with a quieter article talk-page note.


 * However another editor put the autobio tag back on the article. I didn't agree with him at first but I spent time thinking about it. The other editor's comment in his edit summary that you had edited the article just two weeks before showed me a different possible interpretation. That interpretation was that it was unclear if you had quit editing the article page and that a glance at the article history would show that you had done a large number of edits to it.


 * At least three editors have shown though actions or comments that they think the tag should be there. I'm not going to edit war against a consensus. I am planning to ask (probably at the Conflict of Interest Noticeboard) whether there is any consensus as to how much time needs to elapse before removing the autobiography tag. Cloveapple (talk) 03:57, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi -- the edit I did was to clarify or improve someone else's edit. I think I added a word or removed a word. But that was removed by someone else. Since I always request that someone see it, so it doesn't appears that I'm lurking, perhaps my intentions are misunderstood. Anyway -- the person who had edited that page a long time ago was Alarob and I did contact him in this instance to see if could edit it again properly, as references had disappeared. But I never heard back. Thanx for your response. I added a personalized "award" for cute and adorable diligence with a picture of my pups and don't know if the powers-that-be understood clearly that I own the photo and give Wikipedia the right to use. It's under Dogs called Cicero Schnauzer, Tullia-Zoe Schnauzer and Cato the Younger Schnauzer. Found it: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cicero,_Tullia-Zoe_and_Cato_the_Younger.jpg

Gosh, the edits here and the contributions are getting progressively more difficult. Note: I'm almost finished shooting "Ninth Floor" and cut a one-minute edit for class. The whole edit will take a while --- a long while. Thank you so much, Cloveapple, for your efforts and kind regards, the pups await. Mig (talk) 14:46, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * If I remember right the conflict of interest guidelines say that one is "strongly discouraged" from editing an article page for an article about oneself or somebody close to oneself. My informal translation of "strongly discouraged" is "it's a really really bad idea and you're probably going to eventually regret it." COI editing is strongly discouraged even for Wikipedia experts who understand all the rules. Most of the edits that I've seen you do (on both the article about you and the article on your film) have showed a deep misunderstanding of Wikipedia's editing rules.


 * The conflict of interest guideline applies to any edit to the actual article page. It's best to avoid touching the actual article page. Little edits can be against guidelines just as much as big ones. If the editing on the article seems harder to you now that may be because more people are probably watching it now after the multiple notice board posts, the article deletion discussion, and the discussion on Jimbo's page. That's a very public place. (Thousands of people watch his page.)


 * That reminds me, would you like your personal talk page to no longer show up on search engines? I can't help you with the Google-ableness of your comments elsewhere, but if you just give me the word I can put up code asking search engines not to index your personal talk page.


 * I took a look at the puppy picture you uploaded to Wikimedia Commons. The problem is that whenever you upload a picture to commons you have to tell them two things. One is who owns the picture and you told them that. But the second thing they need to know is what license you are releasing the picture under. The license is what tells people how they are allowed to use the picture. You've got three choices. You can pick one these three licenses: 1) public domain means anybody can use the image any way they want and they don't have to credit you. 2) Creative Commons 3 Attribution means people can use the image any which way but they have to give you credit 3) Creative Commons 3 Attribution Share Alike is also an option but I can't explain that one as well. Go to Wikimedia's Help Desk and tell them the name of your picture and the license you have chosen to release it under.


 * I am slowly going over the article sources on a notes page of my own. I've found a couple new newspaper sources but I don't know if they're any good yet. (I'm going to have to pay to see them.) Of course the article on you is just one of my Wikipedia projects but I am chipping away at it. I don't want you to think I'm ignoring it.


 * The film short was really powerful stuff. Thanks so much for sharing it! Have you ever read Woman on the Edge of Time? Something about your short reminded me of that. Cloveapple (talk) 22:16, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi Clove -- this is what I'm working on now http://vimeo.com/32418338 -- "Ninth Floor." I put this together for class in about 3 hours. Much work to be done, but most of the scenes are here and a thread of story -- I shot some footage at the rairoad tracks and also homeless bins and just ambience here and there in Highland Park, CA. Get a glimpse of the UCLA discarded purple paper on the floor at the very beginning. An editorial. Hahahahahahahahah!

I will also shoot ambiance with a Super 8. BTW, the deer just showed up. A nice visitor :)

I have not seen "Women on the Edge of Time" (Almodovar's "Women on the Edge of a Nervous Breakdown?" I have seen that one), but I will check it out. Update: I did check it out. Gosh, I think it looks very interesting! Amazing coincidence! Kind regards, Mig (talk) 21:39, 22 November 2011 (UTC)Mig (talk) 19:20, 22 November 2011 (UTC)