User talk:ColinFine/Archive 18

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - June 2023
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22:56, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

hi
I do recall you commenting on my "bit discombobulated" page, I would just like to say thanks and the link you sent was the thing I was talking about. Bye! IGotHacked12 (talk) 13:29, 11 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Glad to help! ColinFine (talk) 13:39, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Re Mark Reed (sculptor)
Dear Colin, You may remember I asked for your help with the above page as I was unaware that my additions were contravening COI rules on Wikipedia, I genuinely don't want to use the site as an advertising vehicle and I saw how my relationship with the sculptor could skew the viewpoint. You very kindly offered help and advice for which I am enormously grateful. Since your advice I have been placing edit requests on the Talk page and have had huge amounts of help from your fellow editors. However, since 6th June none of my edit requests have been answered and I don't want to just keep adding edit requests in case they are overwhelming, while I have been extremely fortunate in the past as they have been answered very quickly. Am I doing something wrong or are there just huge amounts of edits that need to be worked through and hence this delay? I would really value your help as the sculptor has just had many more press, magazine and third party articles about him in relation to his new work which I would like to add in the edit requests but, as I say, I don't want to just keep adding more and more edit requests when the former ones remain unanswered. I would relish your help and thank you once again for all your help and advice which has been extraordinarily helpful. I am in awe of people like yourself who give so freely of their time. Kind Regards Hannah Hannahlucy100 (talk) 08:27, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Dear Colin,
 * Thank you so much for your help and the edits you made on Mark Reed (sculptor)
 * You are an absolute hero, thank you so very very much for all your help. I've had help from the editor Richard of Earth,I didn't mean to hassle you and am very grateful for your help, especially as it is giving so freely of your time.
 * I haven't had a chance to edit until today as I've been away visiting University open days with my son and when I went to make the changes today, I found that the whole page has been edited and the entire first paragraph from Sculpture has been removed. When I tried to make the changes that were approved, it has caused an edit conflict so I really don't know what to do and would appreciate your help with this.
 * The previous first paragraph read:
 * Reed's sculptures have nature and his place within it at its roots, with his education in engineering and biology, he is interested in the workings of natural structures and the way they contribute to the artistic view of a plant or animal. With this knowledge, within Mark's work, trees become tables, and natural forms are channelled to become functional items in bronze, aluminium or forged steel. Mark is intrigued by intangible configurations as well, particularly in how an entity exists as an component in a hierarchy of cooperatives. In his bronze Life Leaf(2000) a solitary leaf is the "life giver", it gives energy to the entire tree, whilst being recycled into the organism. The rooks in Secret Garden Door are a group descending on the tree with giant spring nests, and therefore indicating the death of winter and new life for a tree. Meanwhile, there is a looking forward momentum in Reed's work, the door opens into the future or the viewers' imagination, the eroded holes within the leaf allow shards of life to permeate through.
 * I wanted to add:
 * the citation https://www.edp24.co.uk/things-to-do/20645791.see-stunning-wave-sculpture-norwich-cathedral/ Emma Lee, 14th August 2021 Eastern daily Press publisher Archant after line 1, which Richard of Earth very kindly approved.
 * Remove the sentence: With this knowledge, within Mark's work, trees become tables, and natural forms are channelled to become functional items in bronze, aluminium or forged steel. Again, which was again, approved.
 * Change: Mark is intrigued by intangible configurations as well, particularly in how an entity exists as an component in a hierarchy of cooperatives." to: "Reed is intrigued by intangible configurations as well, particularly in how an entity exists as an component in a hierarchy of collectives and this was evidenced in Reed's monumental immersive breaking Wave of 3,000 fish. The sculpture, created for The Natural History Museum's Dippy on Tour at Norwich Cathedral was at first glance an installation of great beauty, but litter was scattered amongst the fish- a striking reminder of the damage currently being done to our planet. The piece was a meditation of life on earth, from its origins in very distant past to our own day, a reminder of the total dependence all life on this planet has on the generative powers of water and an admonition to heed the warnings of nature. Which had been kindly approved.
 * I was also about to ask if I could remove "The rooks in Secret Garden Door are a group descending on the tree with giant spring nests, and therefore indicating the death of winter and new life for a tree. Meanwhile, there is a looking forward momentum in Reed's work, the door opens into the future or the viewers' imagination, the eroded holes within the leaf allow shards of life to permeate through." in an edit request, but since the whole paragraph has been removed I don't know how I do this...
 * Furthermore, I wanted to add https://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/things-to-do/22338798.want-piece-dippy-exhibition-chance/ Sarah Burgess Norwich Evening News 16th October 2021 Publisher Archant as a citation, but again as the paragraph doesn't exist I can't ask for that.
 * The editor Throast has removed all the images save Arbour Metallum, and I completely agree that there were too many images as previously discussed but I really wanted to add the image of the Wave sculpture which is in Wikimedia as Mark Reed during flood at Norwich Cathedral, Natural History Museum's Dippy on Tour.jpg as I feel it is a more updated image of more relevant work and so if you believe that I should also remove the image of the Arbour Metallum and exchange for this that would be brilliant, I will be utterly guided by your knowledge and experience.
 * I'm so sorry to ask (again)for your help but don't know how to proceed with the changes you have approved as it doesn't seem possible to do from my end.
 * Massive massive thanks again for your invaluable help. Mr Reed is about to have a very significant piece announced and displayed at Wimbledon AELTC and has already had interviews with the New York Times in preparation for the works' display from 3rd July and I would be eternally grateful for your help with this.
 * Kind Regards
 * Hannah Hannahlucy100 (talk) 18:11, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, Hannahlucy. I'm sorry you're experiencing difficulty; but while I'm interested in Reed's work, I don't want to get involved in the article. I looked at briefly, and found it so full of unsupported subjective statements on Reed's behalf, that I quailed.
 * You would do better to take it up with - but start from how they have left the article, not from where it was before. If you want to argue for restoring some of their cuts, you are free to do that; but you will need to justify it in terms of Wikipedia's policy. ColinFine (talk) 19:40, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Colin,
 * Many many thanks for getting back to me, I really appreciate your help and advice and want to adhere to Wikipedia rules so please please just tell me where it is horribly wrong, and where there are lots of unsupported statements, just be brutal, I'd rather that than have an advertising article and seen as so but it's so hard to be subjective. Please can you advise how I can change it so that it isn't full of unsupported statements on his behalf. Please tell me what to cut and I will. Again, massively grateful for your help,
 * Hannah Hannahlucy100 (talk) 20:26, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Dear Colin,
 * Many thanks for your advice which I have taken on board and hope that any changes I have made subsequently have reflected this.
 * Many thanks for all your editorial help, I have changed the edit requested on 26/6/23 to reflect the advice of another editor that the edit request was a mess format wise and added further references to support the edit request. As always, I am extremely grateful for any help and advice that you have imparted and am indebted to you for all your time with this article. Kind Regards Hannah Hannahlucy100 (talk) 10:48, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - July 2023
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11:53, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Bio draft for pornstar turned sex coach
You previously provided valuable feedback to my request for assistance in the Tearoom: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive_1193#Biographical_stub_article_for_a_self-improvement_coach

I have researched as much as I could about reliability of sources and how to establish notability. I would appreciate your comments on the draft of my article, here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Venzen — Preceding unsigned comment added by Venzen (talk • contribs) 05:08, 24 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello, Venzen. I don't see much that supports notability. None of the awards listings help, nor does anything by Cooper. The Village Voice at first seems possible, until you notice the byline "Brand partner agency" (which is why things like the author and date should appear in the citation, to save the reviewer's time in evaluating it). I can't see the OK Magazine link in my country, so I don't know about that one. CEO Weekly might be useful, but it is quoting him, so my immediate assumption is that all the information in it has come from him, and so is not independent.
 * I'm baffled why you should bother to cite an article about somebody else, where Cooper is quoted once, especially to support routine information about him but ignoring the more controversial claim about his association with Tate. (I'm not necessarily saying you should put the latter in - that would need a stronger source).
 * I fear that, like many people, you have written this draft BACKWARDS. This is like putting up a house without surveying the ground: if the ground is unstable, all the work will have been wasted.
 * Finally, your user talk page is not an appropriate place to create a draft: it is for people to communicate with you, as you are talking to me here. Please move it, to either Draft:Stirling Cooper or to a user sandbox User:Venzen/Stirling Cooper. ColinFine (talk) 10:44, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Incidentally, I see there is already an article Stirling Cooper on a different subject. This is not a problem if you use the articles for creation mechanism, as the accepting reviewer will sort out the disambiguation. --ColinFine (talk) 10:47, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I will use that mechanism when i submit the draft for review. venzen (talk) 02:50, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your extensive feedback. I have moved the draft to my sandbox as you recommended. I have also removed the Village Voice and Rolling Stone citations since CEO Weekly and OK Magazine already confirm the same facts.
 * Notability in the case of Stirling Cooper is being established on his XRCO Award, several nominations and his accolades as a sex coach. Perhaps it would be worth adding his filmography of 400 films together with a reliable source?
 * You say that the award and nominations do not establish notability. I was led to believe that they do because most porn actors' wiki articles cite these same awards and nominations (by the same organisations). The XRCO Awards article lists such actors with links to their biographies, if you would be so kind as to refer and comment again. venzen (talk) 03:04, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * No, this is often misunderstood. If somebody has received awards, then it is likely that they will satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for notability, because it is likely that indepedent people writing about them. But this doesn't remove the requirement to find those independent published sources: it is on them that notability hinges not on the awards themselves.
 * As for the articles on other people: Wikipedia has tens of thousands of seriously substandard articles, which are there only because nobody has yet improved or deleted them. We are more picky about standards that we used to be. Please see WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. ColinFine (talk) 09:52, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * That is an excellent explanation of how notability is established and properly sourced. Thank you, Colin. --venzen (talk) 01:53, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - August 2023
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10:38, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Is reference from Baidu Baike accepted as Wikipedia citation?
Good day ColinFine,

Is reference from Baidu Baike accepted as Wikipedia citation?

What if a historical place exists but there isn't enough reference available? Is it possible to publish an article about that place?

Thanks. Sultanularefeen (talk) 07:23, 3 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello, Sultanularefeen. I'm afraid not: see WP:BAIDUBAIKE.
 * As for the second question, again probably not. See WP:NPLACE. ColinFine (talk) 15:46, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - September 2023
Delivered September 2023 by MediaWiki message delivery.

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12:13, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Follow up
Hi ColinFine, I am following up our conversation on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive_1198 with these sources. Please check and revert; Siagoddess (talk) 09:53, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * https://businessday.ng/life-arts/article/bmy-africa-sets-new-path-for-excellence-in-award-shows/
 * https://myjoyonline.com/emy-africa-awards-holds-soiree-in-lagos
 * https://www.graphic.com.gh/news/general-news/ghana-news-emy-africa-celebrates-best-in-men-s-achievements-tonight.html
 * https://www.peacefmonline.com/pages/showbiz/news/202208/473268.php


 * Maybe. I'd say they're borderline. If you remove the sections where they are quoting Soboh (not indepednent), they don't say very much more than "the awards took place, and aren't they wonderful". No in-depth discussion of why, how, who, what it took to create them.
 * This is my opinion - others might have a different perspective. ColinFine (talk) 10:34, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Adding "Dollface" in the pages.
Last night, I added "Dollface" in the [The Tom and Jerry Show (2014 TV series)] and also in [List of Tom and Jerry characters], but Waxworker removed "Dollface" from these pages. Probably doesn't believe Dollface was in the series or even exists, she most certainly does exists and was in this TV series. She was voiced by Julie Wittner. I gave Waxworker a link to the Tom and Jerry Wiki page of "Dollface" to proves Dollface's existence and he told me that Fandom Wikis are unreliable sources. Tom and Jerry Wiki is not a fanon Wiki, it tells facts about the characters, shorts, TV series and companies in the Tom and Jerry franchise, not fan fiction. (talk) 22:21, 8 September 2023 (UTC)


 * I don't know why you have left this message on my talk page. I advised how to take this forward, which I see you are doing. I have no knowledge or interest in Tom and Jerry characters. If you can't achieve consensus with, then dispute resolution tells you how to pursue this. (My personal advice would be to drop the stick, but that's up to you). ColinFine (talk) 22:05, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I thought I should tell you on this. My bad. I did told Mike Turnball about this yesterday and also on Waxworker's unruly behavior. So, he haven't even replied to me yet, if he's ever going replied to me about this. I might try again. ElectricStormFire86 (talk) 23:00, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Stating that reliable sources are necessary for verification and fandom wikis are unreliable isn't "unruly behavior". Waxworker (talk) 23:14, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
 * You're forbidding me of undoing your removal of "Dollface" on any of the pages I added "Dollface"? I don't think Mike Turnbull would likes it. ElectricStormFire86 (talk) 23:19, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I have exactly the same view and advice as Colin does. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:23, 10 September 2023 (UTC)