User talk:Colliedog

Welcome
Hello world! I'm a new wikipedian as of January 2017. Colliedog (talk) 15:10, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

11/27 created wikipedia page for singer Moira Smiley. I was surprised she didn't have a page, given her stature and how much she has done during her career. I'm a librarian with a limited amount of wikipedia experience (mainly editing wiki pages, not creating them), so I welcome others to jump in and help with the page. I've known her for about a year (we live in the same town and after I saw her perform I became a fan and thought she was prominent enough for her own page). For starters I asked her for her performance history and basic CV type stuff. She contributed the discography, so I know it is accurate. She did not do any of the writing unless directly taken from her webpage or concert publicity. I have been using reliable web sources and library databases to confirm information and add additional information. I've added more content since the page was flagged for possible deletion. Colliedog (talk) 02:15, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Nomination of Moira Smiley for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Moira Smiley is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Moira Smiley until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Celestina007 (talk) 19:45, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia: check out the Teahouse!
Hi Liz thanks for the invite. When I have editing questions I've been referring to the voluminous documentation on wikipedia - so the basic stuff isn't hard for me to find. I've been reading over the WP:musicians criteria and doing my best to find content from reliable sources that meet that. When I'm uncertain or have interpretation questions I'll reach out to Teahouse. thanks! Colliedog (talk) 02:27, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

November 2021
Hello, I'm Celestina007. I wanted to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions to Moira Smiley have been undone because they appeared to be promotional. Advertising and using Wikipedia as a "soapbox" are against Wikipedia policy and not permitted; Wikipedia articles should be written objectively, using independent sources, and from a neutral perspective. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about Wikipedia. Thank you. Celestina007 (talk) 20:25, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello Celestina007. I appreciate the time you are taking to try to make the Smiley article fit wikipedia's standards and I'm trying to do the same. If having so many references seemed a little inflated, it's because after the article got flagged for deletion for not meeting notability standards, I added as many references as I could find to help show the range and degree of accomplishments (I wasn't sure about all the residencies, although Yale at least seemed pretty prominent, but I understand if this isn't the place for this kind of content). I'm trying my best to provide the citations from reliable sources needed to substantiate the content. I've used Ebsco and ProQuest library databases to id many of the articles, since publications have to meet a certain threshold to be indexed. Web publications are trickier so I'll review those more carefully. I'm not a musician so I don't immediately know the reputation of each source I find. There's many I left off that did look purely promotional. So I understand pairing down the references to the most important. However, I don't understand some of the deletions. I'm not sure why the reference to a substantial interview from the Burlington Free Press was removed, especially since it verified a lot of basic bio info. It is a very reliable source - it's the newspaper of Vermont's largest city, with the largest circulation, and was started in 1827. It's an official newspaper of record for VT. I'm also not sure why the text stating she performs with Tune-yards was removed. She is listed as one of the musicians they tour with right on their wikipedia page, so I thought linking to notable musicians that mention her helped substantiate that. She sang on the TV appearances with them that were noted. I'll look over the page history and see what you considered too promotional and anything I think that's appropriate to be restored I'll note justifications in the talk/edit comments so it's more transparent what I'm doing. I'm just a volunteer wikipedia editor learning the ropes in more depth. Biographies of living persons is obviously something that has to be done carefully. thanks! Colliedog (talk) 02:02, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

November 2021
Please do not add promotional material to Wikipedia, as you did to Moira Smiley. While objective prose about beliefs, organisations, people, products or services is acceptable, Wikipedia is not a vehicle for soapboxing, advertising or promotion. Thank you. Celestina007 (talk) 22:01, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Celestina007 I just read the WP article you've referred me to read regarding soapboxing, advertising, promotion. I would value another opinion on this matter since we're reading the same thing and coming to different conclusions. I'm not sure how to substantiate that this artist is a musician meeting Wikipedias notability standards without referencing the notable musicians they've performed with or articles that discuss the musician's performances, accomplishments, career etc. I was unaware that an interview (by a major newspaper) is not considered an appropriate source. I am not trying to "promote" this or any other musician. I'm a librarian trying to create an encyclopedia article about a musician whose work I've only begun to become familiar with and who is widely known and highly regarded in Vermont and beyond. So I'll give this a rest so other wikipedians can have a chance to look at the article and add relevant, appropriate content. Thanks for your understanding. Colliedog (talk) 23:14, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
 * On your Talk page you mention that you know MS personally. That is considered a conflict-of-interest. To address, this, add to your User page that you know MS and are attempting to have a draft about her accepted as an article. This does not prohibit you from working on the draft. David notMD (talk) 04:33, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * David notMD. Thanks for your clarification. We both live in a small town of ~3,000 people in rural VT (I moved here a year ago) and you see everyone on the town green, grocery store, out hiking the local town trails, etc. If you regularly go see live music, you'll end up meeting local musicians (including another in this town with a Tony-winning Broadway show still going strong - met her on the town green this summer). So I disclosed that to be transparent and honest (professional obligation as a librarian). I also added to talk after this was flagged as promo, that I'm not someone working for her (very common for artists to have their people work on add / edit content on their wikipedia page) to address conflict of interest (which I didn't think it was or I wouldn't have started the article). It would be great if others would jump in and add to the article itself so I'm not the only wikipedia editor working on this. I think that would resolve all the issues that have come up here. If I should move this back to draft, how do I do that but also get others to notice it and add to it? Smiley really does deserve an article IMHO. Thank you in advance for any advice! (adding sig. WP logged me out while writing this) Colliedog (talk) 13:45, 30 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Mentions of whom she has performed with, even if referenced, is informative, but not contributing to notability. David notMD (talk) 04:35, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * It is at AfD now. In a week or so an Administrator will decide to keep, delete or move to draft. Your best path is to try to add neutral content with refs, to make the article stronger. As for COI, Wikipedia is very sensitive about that, so knowing personally, even if only casually, counts. You, declaring on your User page that you know MS but are not being paid or in any way compensated for creating this article, will be sufficient, and in doing so explains how you were able to use your own photo. (eliminating suspicion of copyright infringement). David notMD (talk) 14:54, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * No one at Wikipedia loves a wall of text. Try to keep your Talk comments short. David notMD (talk) 15:28, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * @,, David & Hoary, thanks for your input, this has indeed become very messy so much so that I have decided to un-watch the deletion page, in my experience when dealing with an editor who is possibly here to promote a single individual [SPA's] except one is ready to dedicate an inordinate amount of time to negate or counter them, it is usually a daunting & frustrating work & as you know we Teahouse Hosts have a lot on our table to bother about other things. As is customary I’d let the AFD play out without anymore input. My issue is they seem to not understand what a COI or ADMASQ is & if their most imperative claim to notability is them(she) winning an award then they do not qualify, because from WP:SINGER, those awards do not rise or equate with the sort of prestigious awards that confer notability for singers. Celestina007 (talk) 17:18, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

At Teahouse, the advice for new editors is consistently to put in months learning about Wikipedia by editing existing articles before essaying to create a new article. So true. David notMD (talk) 17:28, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * David notMD great advice, one I tell my students in my library workshops. You've inspired me to just now discover that WP provides amazing analytics on editors I never knew about! WP shows that since 2017 I've made 182 edits (69 of those in the past 30 days, 108 within the last year).  And I've created 12 pages. So even though I consider myself a novice, I thought I was ready to jump into the deep end with a BLP article. Everything you do with Wikipedia is a learning experience and as a librarian/teacher we often say you have to learn to fly while the plane is in the air :). Colliedog (talk) 19:03, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Help with userboxes
Hey, you may find Userboxes helpful. Firestar464 (talk) 02:51, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you Firestar464. Much appreciated! Colliedog (talk) 03:13, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * You're welcome ;) --Firestar464 (talk) 03:23, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * p.s. thanks for explaining thumbs up = thanks. I thought folks were just looking for a free ride ;) (beautiful cat btw). Colliedog (talk) 03:36, 1 December 2021 (UTC)