User talk:Contains Mild Peril

User talk:Contains Mild Peril/Archive 1 (N.B. some stuff I've archived may be more recent than some stuff here: possible continuing relevance is as much a criterion as chronology).

Elusive references
Thanks for your note.

>I still haven't had any luck finding out about the longest vocal note in a pop song record

Yes. Despite expenditure of effort, I'm afraid I haven't made any progress either. (Not very satisfying ... )

>it would be really helpful if someone could tell us the year.

Agreed! Sadly, the lady who wrote it currently doesn't seem to be active on WP.

>''If I find myself in a public library ... ''

That sounds like a reasonable plan. If I can get sufficiently organised, I will try the same approach.

> ... got the information from Wikipedia in the first place!

Yes, it is starting to become bizarre; I'm begining to find chunks of text I wrote (on WP) popping up in all sorts of unexpected places. Talk about déjà vu!

>''As I mentioned on the article discussion page ... ''

So you did! My apologies!! It seems I missed noticing your posting. (That's happened to me a few times in the last week - my watchlist must be getting too big.) Sorry. It seems you posting to my talk page was a good idea! Thanks.

>I really can't see any justification for including the Wikipedia Guinness World Records article as a reference.

I agree. (It seems my posting is ambiguous in ways I hadn't realised. I'll review it.) I'll also respond on the talk page to your posting there.

>However, I have no wish to take an adversarial approach

Of that, I am quite glad. I try not to be adversarial, but I find that a "pugnacious person" can take offence at even the mildest statement if they are in the mood to do so, so I'm not always successful. Its much more pleasant dealing with someone who does not feel the need to be adversarial.

>so I have left your questionable references

I would prefer you categorised one as "ambiguous" and the other as "non-specific" (or even "vague" if you feel the need); my personal pov is that "questionable" can mean any of a number of things, and most of them don't mean the reference should be removed. As I've said elsewhere, the references need to be improved, but not removed.

>I hope to have the opportunity to discuss this further in the future so that we might agree on a permanent solution.

As long as I pay better attention and notice when you post something, (which I usually do), I see no reason why this will not happen.

Note: I am about to post more at Talk:Freddy Curci. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, but being a male, I find that walking and chewing gum at the same time is stretching the limits of my abilities. Having a conversation in three places exceeds them. So I apologise in advance if I've missed something.
 * Recently I've been forced to try to communicate with some narcissists who only want to talk about their view of the universe, so I find it refreshing and enjoyable to communicate with someone who actually wants to communicate.
 * "I'm glad we've been able to come to an agreement about this," - Oh yes. Me too.
 * "and I hope we find some more information at some point in the future." - Ditto. (But sadly, I'm not holding my breath ... )
 * "For the time being I think your current edit is the best we can do" - Well, so far, I havn't been able to think of anything better. But I live in hope ...
 * "Thanks for your helpful information" - That is very polite of you, and is appreciated, but I would feel dishonest if I didn't emphasise that there are a number of related templates, and it is possible that one of the others may be better ...
 * It's a pleasure "talking" to you. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 15:04, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Take on Me
Hi, I see the credits for the album and for the single (the three releases), no one is credited with drums. The references you mention are always about live performances not about the song that was released as a single, maybe they do use drums when the song is performed live, but there is nothing about drums in the credits. I believe it was totally possible to do the sounds with synthesizers, just look for example Duran Duran, The Human League, Depeche Mode or Ultravox, all started way before a-ha and are known for been synthpop. Frcm1988 (talk) 19:08, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Since you cite Duran Duran as an example and I know I've heard drums in their records too, I just took a look at the Wikipedia article on Duran Duran. They had a real drummer long before they became famous, and used drums throughout the '80s: I don't think there are any recordings featuring Nick Rhodes' electronic drum machine which was used in some early perfomances (before Simon Le Bon joined the band). The meeting of drummer Roger Taylor, in 1979, with J. Taylor, Rhodes and Wickett at a party, as well as the departure of Colley, led John Taylor to switch to bass. R. Taylor then became their original (human) drummer. It was this lineup (J. Taylor on bass and guitar, along with Rhodes, Wickett and R. Taylor) that made the first-ever Duran Duran studio demo tapes. After releasing three studio albums and one live album in five years, each accompanied by heavy media promotion and lengthy concert tours, the band lost two of its core members to fatigue and tension in 1986. After Live Aid and Arcadia, drummer Roger Taylor retired to the English countryside, suffering from exhaustion. Without a guitarist or a drummer, the three remaining members, Le Bon, Rhodes, and John Taylor had producer (and former Chic guitarist) Nile Rodgers play a few tracks on guitar, and hired studio musicians to play drums while they searched for replacements. By the end of 1989, after touring for the album finished, the band regained a five-man membership as Cuccurullo and tour drummer Sterling Campbell were made full members of Duran Duran Real drums (and the 2005 photo with the article also shows a drummer with a full acoustic drum kit on stage). Most synthpop acts did and do use drums. Synthpop doesn't necessarily mean acoustic instruments aren't used: the oboe in a-ha's Living A Boy's Adventure Tale is real, too (though not always in live performances).
 * I find it odd that Allmusic (which is considered reliable) don't list drums in the album credits, but if drums were listed anyway, it dosen't mean that it was for "Take on Me". And how is that the oboe is credited in the booklet (Claire Jarvis) but the drums not, I find that very weird, I have seen videos of a-ha performing live, for example the 1986 Grammys, there is someone playing drums but is not Waaktaar maybe someone do play drums but that person is not credited, I have seen the second and third releases (7" and 12") and no credits. Also I wasn't trying to say that because the other bands were synthpop they don't use other instruments beside the synthesizer, i was trying to tell you that recreating those drum sounds was possible in 1984-'85, because other bands alredy did it. Even Madonna used a mix of synthesized and real drumming in her single "Live to Tell". Also unlike a-ha, Roger Taylor is credited for drums in the Duran Duran's albums (Rio, Seven and the Ragged Tiger, etc). So i think that if someone is playing drums is not any of the band members because why wouldn't his name be included in the credits. Frcm1988 (talk) 10:55, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok I changed it, hope I didn't get in trouble for that, it's also weird that you can change it, I tought only IPs weren't able to edit when a page is semi-protected. Frcm1988 (talk) 11:07, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

If you compare live versions with real drums to the studio version you can tell the drums are real there as well: if they weren't why would the band go to the trouble of having a drummer for every live performance of the song? They use a drummer live because they need one, and Paul can't do it while also playing guitar, but of course he can record different instruments separately in the studio. We can hear drums in the record, we can see them in the video and in live performances: the logical conclusion is that the record features drums. It's strange that this is not mentioned on the record sleeve, but the drums are quite obviously there. Contains Mild Peril (talk) 11:29, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So what you suggest we should put: Pål Waaktaar – drums (not credited), guitar, vocals. Frcm1988 (talk) 21:29, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The Allmusic references have keyboards in one, and the other said: However, a-ha's debut album Hunting High and Low was much more diverse than "Take On Me" suggested, and Harket spilled his pain with a high-pitched falsetto over a bed of acoustic guitars and electronics long before Thom Yorke of Radiohead reaped awards and platinum albums for doing it.


 * I don't recall other song in the album where "Harket spilled his pain with a high-pitched falsetto", he is known for the falsetto in that particular song, they mention the acoustic guitar and electronics(synthesizer). Anyway the booklet or the liner notes have this info and could be used as a reference too, which by the way don't mention the drums.


 * I don't know if there are 3 different versions in the intrumentation, but that reference is about the "first video version" not about the single. They said: Although only the instrumentation changed, the remix by Alan Tarney gained heavy rotation on MTV, they don't specify if the video is from the first or the second release of the single. Frcm1988 (talk) 17:52, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't fully understand all of the review or the biography, the music critics tend to write or describe the music very metaphorically and often they write in an ambiguous manner, well at least Allmusic isn't as bad as Robert Christgau's reviews. However I believe that they were talking about "Take on Me", because the guide is American, and a-ha is consider to be a one-hit wonder in the United States and Canada, it wouldn't make sense for they to write about another song in Harket's biography when he is mostly known only for that song. Frcm1988 (talk) 02:41, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Credits
The credits in the album have the following: Frcm1988 (talk) 03:28, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * a-ha - production, remixing
 * Magne Furuholmen - keyboards, vocals
 * Morten Harket - vocals
 * Pal Waaktaar - guitar, vocals (dosen't mention the type of guitar)
 * Neil King - engineer
 * Claire Davis - Oboe
 * Tony Mansfield -producer
 * Alan Tarney - producer
 * John Ratcliff - producer, remixing
 * Just Loomis - photography
 * Bobby Hata - mastering
 * Jeffrey Kent Ayeroff - art direction, design

B-Sides
I want to thank you for your very well reasoned and articulated argument in favor of B-sides on the Wikipedia:WikiProject Discographies/style discussion page. I completely agree with everything you said. I just can't understand the exclusionary point of view of some to banish relevant material that would clearly make for a more complete and informative article. Many thanks.99.50.127.173 (talk) 20:45, 31 October 2009 (UTC) Yes, again I agree. What more reliable a source can there be than the physical media itself?! As you said, it is not original research. Also, everything is not already on-line and so  there can therefore not always be an on-line reference. But, most importantly, B-side information is of great interest to many and is completely relevant to the subject, so why on earth should it be arbitrarily excluded? 99.50.127.173 (talk) 05:29, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, it's happening again. User:Caldorwards4 trashed the B-Side information on the Wayne Massey page and then identified the edit to put it back on as vandalism! I read the page on Vandalism and it in no way fits this situation. Vandalism is destruction in many ways. Not the insistence of retaining valuable and pertinent information intended to improve Wikipedia for all, not just those that prefer a cookie-cutter format whether it makes for a better article or not.DawnSM (talk) 00:57, 30 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by DawnSM (talk • contribs)

DYK nomination of Mary de Morgan
Hello! Your submission of Mary de Morgan at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! PM800 (talk) 07:28, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Mary de Morgan
The DYK project (nominate) 06:02, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

WP:V
I looked closely at your change, but could see very little difference. I think my language is slightly more clear, but it does use the word 'must' rather than 'can'. Is that the problem? (note, I'm asking here, since it's minor and that talk page is a constant mess of pointless circle-going; but I can move this to the talk page if you like). Ocaasic 02:18, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with discussing this relatively minor point here. Yes, it is a fairly small difference, but my problem was with the change from "can" to "must be able to": the latter seems more concrete, and as I mentioned in my edit summary, could be interpreted as implying that if any given source is not realistically accessible to any given reader (for example, an out-of-print book which may be available in a public library but not necessarily in the same country as the reader who wishes to verify a citation) then it is not "verifiable".
 * I also feel that "not whether editors think it is true" is somewhat clearer than "not that it is actually "true" ". On reflection though, I probably ought to have reverted only these parts, and left "material in Wikipedia" (as opposed to the previous "content in the encyclopedia") alone. Contains Mild Peril (talk) 03:06, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, agree that must sounds very strong, even with 'be able to' still allowing leeway, and 'readers' not suggesting every individual. I might add back the uncontroversial parts, and then try a rewrite in a later edit. Thanks, and let me know if you have any ideas along the lines of making the policy sound simpler without changing its meaning.  Ocaasic 03:47, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks
Re: April Fools (policy). I was concerned that I had been reported to an admin or something when I first saw the notification I had a message! :) Glad someone appreciated it. The next laugh for both of us will be when someone either deletes it or responds to it (quite seriously, of course) "No. This would not a very good idea!"   :) Student7 (talk) 23:41, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Alexander Gradsky
The DYK project (nominate) 16:04, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Nigger and pink cardigan in UK magazine advert circa 1948.jpg
 Thanks for uploading File:Nigger and pink cardigan in UK magazine advert circa 1948.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Lenny Gault
I love how you completely ignored the "but there are no reliable sources" part. WP:GNG trumps WP:BAND, not the other way around. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 03:26, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, as I said, the only source I have is the Joel Whitburn country book. Which gives nothing more than date of birth, place of birth and "male singer". Tell me how that's "non-trivial". Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 18:27, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm glad you mentioned that: I was about to query this myself since you said above, "no reliable sources" despite having already mentioned one yourself. As you may have noticed, the article now has multiple sources. Admittedly the information itself is still minimal, but it is verifiable and in quantity somewhat proportional to the notability of the subject. There is nothing wrong with having many stub articles containing relevant and cited information about minor subjects: one expects to find such articles in an encyclopaedia which aims to be fairly comprehensive. "Triviality" of coverage is arguable: triviality or significance is not determined solely by quantity, but also by the quality and relevance of the source and content. For example, a short entry listed in a specialist book is generally more signficant than a 300-word magazine article gossiping about some minor celebrity's drunken behaviour at a party.
 * You may also note that while WP:GNG states "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article" it does not say that the converse is true, because it is not intended to "trump" WP:BAND or any other specific notability guidelines. Contains Mild Peril (talk) 22:12, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

'Perfect pitch'
Spike Milligan, for one, said it about himself! Whether tongue-in-cheek, as with so much he said, is open to question. Here's the link, for what it's worth. Haven't looked beyond for corroboration by an 'uninvolved' party. {He may have been eating his breakfast in D-sharp all along and never knew it!). Best. RashersTierney (talk) 01:34, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Ha ha! Thanks, I'd forgotten about that bit: it's many years since I read that book. Like a lot of the stuff in his memoirs, I suspect it's essentially true but perhaps slightly embellished. I'll probably add a citation to the article later. All the best, Contains Mild Peril (talk) 06:10, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

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cysto
I hope your urologist is using a flexible tube. It shouldnt be super-painful, if so. Get TWO doses of Benzocaine injected 5 minutes before. Good luck. Bellagio99 (talk) 00:42, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

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