User talk:Conversano Isabella

Andreas Hausberger

Consistency
Hello, Andreas. In your recent comments, you made it quite clear that the Lipizzan is not a "Slovenian horse". Fair enough. But why is the Kladruber, a Habsburg breed with a history that parallels that of the Lipizzaner, described as "a Czech breed" on Wikipedia (with its origin in the "Czech Republic")? Now that I've alerted you to this lack of consistency, will you fix that article? Or is the Kladruber not famous enough? --WorldWide Update (talk) 08:57, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The Kladruber horse is so lucky... Just a horse breed from (nowadays) Czech soil, claimed by nobody else than the Czech. No politics involved. But from the historical perspective, here the same story counts as with the Lipizzaner: Kladrub was -just like Lippiza- one of the private studs of the Habsburg. Those horses, which we know now as "Kladruber" were exclusively bred for the court in Vienna. The studfarm just happened to be located on a spot, which we now indicate as Czech....
 * So literally, from this perspective, the Kladruber is not a Czech horsebreed as stated in Wiki, but a Austro-Hungarian Habsburg breed !  But who cares ;-) ? --Andreas Hausberger (talk) 16:52, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't. (grin) Like I noted on the Lipizzan article, the infoboxes are for geographic location.  And if anyone wants to go in and improve the Kladruber article, it needs help!  Very hard to find ANYTHING on them in English language sources.  And decent photos?  Not much luck there, either (wikipedia's requirement of free use photos limits our options sometimes).   Montanabw (talk) 03:48, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Welcome back!
Good to see you around! Do you have any interest in creating an article on the Piber stud farm? We'll help! (You may want to use Marbach stud or Celle State Stud as examples...) Montanabw (talk) 23:22, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I would love to, though I don't have much time at the moment. I did an article about Gottlieb Polak http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottlieb_Polak, it's in German. Can you translate it? --Andreas Hausberger (talk) 19:23, 21 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I can do a Google translation and get the general idea. Beyond that, I last had any German 20 years ago when I was in college, so I may need to tap your skills for assistance to get the nuance correct.  On that note, I did something like this for Carl Raswan and German riding pony.  if you'd like to lend me a hand to compare the German to the English articles and verify that nothing was horribly mistranslated, it would be a kindness -- I had a German speaker help on Raswan, but that person was not a horse expert... On English wiki, we also have recently had our new page patrollers get VERY fussy about new articles, so I may have to work on the article in a "sandbox" before it goes live.  I'll alert you to my progress.  Are you on de.wiki any more often?  Montanabw (talk) 04:40, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Follow up: The new mess is now living at User:Montanabw/Sandbox2  Feel free to dive in and fix stuff!   Montanabw (talk) 05:39, 22 February 2010 (UTC)  There is a German word Google insists on translating as "heater," and heater clearly is NOT the right word?  (Oberbereiter und Reitmeister is translated "upper heaters and riding master" )  Do we have a German homophone here that is the right word?    Montanabw (talk) 06:08, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, I created a section where everyone can just edit away, then made some changes and asked some more questions. This is coming together!  One IMPORTANT Question:  Does your source exist in an English translation?  (If not, I may be making a trip to the library to see if Podhajsky mentions Polak in his English works...I only have one of his training books, not the more biographical ones...)  English wiki is getting very fussy about biographies -- they are fussiest about those of living people (your Georg Wahl article may need more sources if he is still alive today, by the way).
 * The "Deutsche Reiterhefte" just exist in german. Yes, you are right, Wahl needs to be expended and proper sources are needed, though I didn't do it. --Andreas Hausberger (talk) 16:26, 23 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Is this a magazine or a book? Can you provide additional citation information? (or a web link to the book/periodical where I can figure out the citation info?)  When we have sources in other languages, we can finesse the sourcing by adding footnotes with translation of the relevant line sentence or two. See how the footnotes were handled in Finnhorse, where most of the source material was in Finnish, which isn't exactly a widely-spoken language!  (LOL).  So for the source, maybe just copy exactly what was said in German, then how it is said in English, and it can all hide in a footnote for those who care.  I'll put in tags where this can be done.  Example: ( Source XYZ said, "Sprechen sie Deutsch?" (Do you speak German?)).  (grin)   Montanabw (talk) 19:03, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * It's a magazine  http://www.listityourselfauctions.com/detail.asp?id=80942  --Andreas Hausberger (talk) 20:06, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

(outdent) Thanks I'll see what I can do with that. If you actually have a copy in your possession, can you tell me what page number(s) the article is on, and the title of the article (and if it was authored by someone who interviewed Podhajsky, or if the author was Podhajsky himself?)  Typically for proper magazine citation, we need. Author (first and last name), article title, title of publication, date of issue publication, issue number (if any), and page numbers for the article. Pain in the butt, but I guess there was a lawsuit over here on English wiki and so they are tightening up the requirements for biographies here. And for the statement that Polak was one of the most gifted riders ever, which is a very strong statement (even if accurate) I probably should have the exact, direct quote (in German is fine, and then we also give it a rough translation). In the meantime, I will check to see if Podhajsky mentions Polak in any of his English works. I suspect he may have in My Horses, My Teachers, but I don't have a copy of that one (hmm...may have to check Google books...). Montanabw (talk) 00:16, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Polak article
Just creating a new heading for discussion of the article. I think it can "go live" after you do another review. I still want the exact quote about Polak's giftedness as a rider, but that isn't critical to getting the article up only to keeping that statement in there in case people even more fussy than myself review it. And dude, you are SOOOO busted! (grin):  LOL! (joking) But to comment on images, anything really old may well be considered in the public domain. It all depends on the copyright laws of your nation. In the USA, that means anything published before 1923. The trick with wiki is that an image has to be free for anyone to use. For example, someone can take a photo of the Mona Lisa at the Louvre museum and use their photo on wiki (see article in question), but they can't take a photo of the Mona Lisa from an art book they happen to have. See the rules in Wikimedia commons. (hint, hint...)  Montanabw (talk) 03:00, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Took it live, from now on, it's free rein for everyone! (Crossing fingers) Gottlieb Polak. Montanabw (talk) 21:38, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Good job! --Andreas Hausberger (talk) 22:20, 25 February 2010 (UTC)


 * You too! Pretty soon, you will be making your own sandboxes!   Montanabw (talk) 22:58, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I couldn't find out how, can you help me? --Andreas Hausberger (talk) 05:57, 26 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Click on this link: User:Conversano Isabella/Sandbox. It will give you the blank article template and then away you go!  (There are other ways to do it, but I find making a redlink and then using it to bring up the "start new article" template is the easiest).  Montanabw (talk) 23:15, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Wahl is up in your sandbox (note link above has turned from red to blue). I haven't done the Google piece yet, but it will go in too. Montanabw (talk) 05:24, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Next project?
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Lindenbauer up next. I'll throw the Google disaster into the sandbox and you can grab the weirdest translations, like the "catfish" one! Montanabw (talk) 21:46, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, let's go ;-) --Andreas Hausberger (talk) 22:21, 25 February 2010 (UTC)


 * It's in the sandbox. I picked out the biggest chunks of cat poop, so to speak, but it still needs a lot of work!  Montanabw (talk) 23:59, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'll be there. --Andreas Hausberger (talk) 06:00, 26 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Now that Lindenbauer is done, do you want to pop in the German text of the Wahl piece? When I do these, I copy and paste from the Editing page so that what is wikilinked shows, even though the links will have to also be translated... (I still am cursing the need for reading glasses, I like things that are in different colors, they're easier to see!) You can delete what's in my sandbox, or you can put it into your new one and play there!  I can then pop in the English version and compare it to the Google translation of the German version -- I suspect that mostly we will just be adding a couple paragraphs or correcting some info, it won't be a whole article rewrite... ?  Montanabw (talk) 20:31, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * - I still am cursing the need for reading glasses, I like things that are in different colors, they're easier to see! - ;-)))))) Can you do the Wahl-sandbox? --Andreas Hausberger 21:16, 2 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I probably SHOULD tell you it's time to try this for yourself, but if you don't mind being patient, I can. :-)  If I don't get to it in a couple days, nag me on my talk page.  (Horse joke!  Get it?  nag? LOL!)  Montanabw (talk) 00:23, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll be patient :-) Andreas Hausberger 07:37, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah dude, making me do the work! (LOL)  Real life is dumping things on me right now, so my wiki-work for a bit will be confined to putting out brushfires and reverting vandals.  Best not to ask me to think right at the moment...let alone translate Google's "Engrish" translations!  =:-O    Montanabw (talk) 22:25, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * You should take some time off and come to Vienna ;-) --Andreas Hausberger 18:01, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Made it as far east as Salzburg, quite a while back. But this year, the hubby and I will probably blow our travel budget putting a new roof on the barn.  :-P  And finding someone competent to do so.  And then keeping an eye on them.  Terribly exciting that:  "Hey You!  Roof guy!  Don't drop your bent nails in the paddock where the horses can step on them, and do you realize you're smoking a cigarette over a building full of hay?!"  Ah, it will be a grand adventure.  That and getting my new mare going properly (right now she canters like a pogo stick, lovely trot, though...)   Montanabw (talk) 04:10, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Images
I have moved the de.wiki article on Piber into my sandbox. Was wondering if you could check the copyrights to see if we can move two images either into English wiki, or (preferable) wikimedia commons. They are Datei:Bundesgestüt Piber logo.svg (Piber coat of arms) and Gestuetsbraende oest-ung.png  (the drawings of brands). If doable, I'd appreciate it. Thanks in advance! (Once this one is finished, Babolna in Hungary is probably next on my list...) Montanabw (talk) 23:32, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Hermesvilla
The former summerstables of the Spanish Riding School! We should expand it as well! --Andreas Hausberger 08:40, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

How to create a "sandbox"?
Can you explain step by step how to creat a "sandbox"? --Andreas Hausberger 19:23, 8 March 2010 (UTC)


 * You start a personal "sandbox" (technically, a sub-page of your user space) the same way you create any other kind of new article. The trick is the title.   Put a slash (/) after your user name, and whatever comes after the slash is a sub-page from your own user space.   The easiest way for me to create a new page is to create the title as a wikilink, which looks like this: User:Somebody's User Name/Name of sandbox.  (here's what I typed: User:Somebody's User Name/Name of sandbox  As you can see, it's a "red link," meaning there is no article yet attached to that title (such as we now have with Gernant (horse). All you then have to do is click on the red link, and the page that opens up in a blank editing window.  At that point, just start typing away.   You can have several sandboxes if you want, all they need is different titles after the slash, like  User:Conversano Isabella/Sandbox2.  If you note the top of my talk page, User talk:Montanabw you will see I have a bunch of sandboxes set up, mostly for storing old talk about various topics, but a couple for playing with future articles -- you don't have to keep them visibly linked from your talk page if you don't want to, but it's a handy way to remember their titles and get to them quickly (I have a couple half-hidden ones). All my "archives" of old talk messages are set up the same way.   FYI, you can do this on de.wiki too.  Does this make sense?   Montanabw (talk) 23:29, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * You are a very good teacher :-) Now it's clear for me :-) Thank you B. :-) Andreas Hausberger 06:11, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Good luck! LOL!   Montanabw (talk) 23:50, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

User:Conversano Isabella/South African Lipizzaners - Sandbox
Hi, you created a page Conversano Isabella/South African Lipizzaners - Sandbox which appears as though it should have been User:Conversano  Isabella/South African Lipizzaners - Sandbox and has been moved. noq (talk) 16:23, 10 March 2010 (UTC)


 * My bad, forgot to mention that you have to have the whole name of your User page, (arrgh). Looks like its fixed now though Montanabw (talk) 19:28, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * :-)   --Andreas Hausberger 19:57, 10 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I see you figured it out!  Montanabw (talk) 20:33, 11 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, and if you are looking at a horse "biography," A simple one someone else put up that may make a nice basic example is Authentic (horse).  If you want a master's example that is a featured article, see Go Man Go.   Montanabw (talk) 20:46, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
 * B. I really adore your help! It's nice to have friends here on wiki! Andreas Hausberger 21:38, 11 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Glad to help. There's the other side too...disaffected annoying people who like to make things miserable.  Should you encounter snarky people, let me know.  I can call in the cavalry, there's about five of us who do a lot with the horse articles and understand wikipedia politics pretty well.  Go check out WP:EQUINE (aka "WPEQ"), we have a little club over there.  Anyone can join.  Posting a plea for help on the project's talk page will probably get you several useful folks. If I'm not around, Users Ealdgyth, Dana boomer, and Richard New Forest are all good folk who know horses, are usually around daily, and have weathered many a wiki-crisis.  Cgoodwin, Countercanter, and Josette are also a good horse people, but not on wiki as often and prefer to avoid the wiki-dramas.  Wise people, that. but they are GREAT for when you need a fresh set of eyes on an article.  (Countercanter is the goddess of the Warmblood articles, and also very good on coat color genetics, she was lead editor on Dominant white, and Heavy warmblood, among others. Cgoodwin is our Australian specialist.  Josette is also a horse owner and a simply wonderful human being!)   User Lar is an administrator on en.wiki and if you have the kind of crisis that needs a real live grownup, he's a good person to know.  Dropping a plea for help on his page will get you someone responsible on the scene quite quickly, even if it's not him.  KimvdLinde is invaluable on issues related to taxonomy and early domestication.  We all have been having fun on a little side project, the Glossary of equestrian terms -- that might be a useful place for you to check out the English words for certain things, by the way.  (And the differences between US and UK horse terminology! As Mark Twain once said, "Americans and the British are a people separated by a common language!"  =:-O  )  Montanabw (talk) 06:02, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Your recent edits
Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. --SineBot (talk) 14:14, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I will --Andreas Hausberger 14:16, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Even I occasionally forget to do that. By the way, I'm not watchlisting any of your new sandboxes, so if you want me to look over any of them, drop me a line on my talk page.  If you put up any new articles, let me know so I can add the stuff on the talk page bringing them into the WPEQ family, and also check the categories.  (I used to sternly discipline another editor who put up beautiful new articles no one could find because she neglected to include categories and a WPEQ rating!  ;-)  )   Montanabw (talk) 18:41, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you B. for your great help! --Andreas Hausberger 18:45, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Images round two
Getting images from Flickr is best done using the path "Upload"-->From Flickr and following the directions. There is a tool there to check the Flickr copyrights to be sure they are legal for Commons. There is probably an easier way to do it, but I download the highest resolution photo from Flickr to my own computer, then use the Flickr tool to verify the copyright and create the upload template, and then upload the actual photo via my own computer (I think there may be a way to upload directly from Flickr, but I don't know how to do it)

The single most frustrating thing about Flickr (grrrr!) is that a lot of people put up images for free, but restrict their commercial use, (which seems logical to them) and so Commons won't OK them because Commons images have to be free for anyone to use for anything, including for-profit web sites. HOWEVER, those images can still be uploaded into individual wikipedia articles, but you have to do it separately for each wiki, which is a pain in the butt! I think I mentioned on your de.wiki talk page that User:Kersti Nebelsiek, who has a presence on both English and German wiki, is sort of the goddess of Commons. If she will help, she searches Flickr and uploads many images from there, she might even do it for you if you are really nice to her! I think User:Pitke may also be able to help; s/he is active here and on Finnish wiki, also seems to do a lot with images.

There are also a lot of Flickr images that are copyrighted by the owner that we can't use at all. Sometimes, you can email the owner and ask if they are willing to change the copyright so that we can use them on Wikipedia, but sometimes the owner can't be located (or thinks we are some lunatic and won't answer). :-P

To show you examples, here is an image I found on Flickr that I could not upload to Commons but did successfully upload to English Wikipedia: File:Confident Saddleseat rider.jpg (why the standards are different, I don't know... :-P  )  In contrast, here is an image I found on Flickr managed to successfully upload to Commons. File:Lindsey on horse.jpg Both appear in the article Saddle seat. If you view the original images on Flickr, you will see the difference in copyright. (The two photos of tack in the same article I wound up taking myself because I couldn't find anything free for use in wiki...)

To be honest, I find that the easiest way to get images into Commons is to take them myself. (Except for photographs from books, paintings and photographs, which once again fall under copyright laws because I am deriving my work from that of another... Dealing with images has got to be my number one frustration in doing wikipedia stuff. (Well, maybe my #2 frustration after dealing with tenditious editors who create conflict for its own sake)  :-P     Montanabw (talk) 19:12, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Your recent edits
Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. --SineBot (talk) 10:17, 17 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I allways click that [[Image:Signature_icon.png]], though it doesn't work --Andreas Hausberger 15:10, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Did you see where I answered you on my talk page? I think I figured out what happened.   Go check my reply there...   Montanabw (talk) 17:55, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Your recent edits
Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. --SineBot (talk) 15:30, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Piber is up!
Hey, out from my sandbox (finally) is Piber. Can you review it and let me know what mistakes are in there? I pulled a lot of material from the Piber web site, swiped some material from the Lipizzan article, but some bits are just what was in German wiki. Then I took my best guess! The English translations on the official site were a little sketchy, though much better than Google's version and I did the best I could. Let me know if there is anything that needs to be fixed, or you can also just fix it if you want. If you want to see what the German text was that I started from, see User:Montanabw/Sandbox2 Thanks! Montanabw (talk) 07:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, it's annoying and I sympathize, but... ;-)
Hey, had to hide that link to the folks in the Netherlands. They may be leading experts, but the weird rules of wikipedia are very firm on sourcing directly to written materials, and I couldn't find the page within that site that discusses the SA Lipizzans -- but then, I don't read Dutch. To get past the "frames" on their web site that puts the same URL in every page, you can right click on a link to open it in a new window and get the actual direct URL.. for example, their one page in English is at this link: http://www.baroque-consult.nl/english.html. If they have a page with info, link it directly as a source. If there isn't a page with info, then we can't link it at all. Your friend indicated on his talk page that the info you used came from a dissertation. If so, it was published somewhere, and we can cite it that way even if it only exists in hard copy at some library... for example, here is a citation to a dissertation that someone could view, copy or check out from a University library: Naidoo, Priyadarshini, M.A. "Yogic transmission in Sahaj Marg of the Shri Ram Chandra mission: A religio-historical study". University of South Africa (South Africa), 1995; AAT 0666936

Wikipedia has two policies that govern this: No original research and Verifiability. Oh yes, and for your friend, there also is the "no commercial advertising" thing. All of which is a big pain in the butt when you KNOW something from direct experience. Because of the On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog problem, (remember, for a while I thought you were a fake!--sorry 'bout that, by the way!) wikipedia wants references to written sources that can be verified by third parties. I've been editing wikipedia for four years and spent the first three ripping my hair out about this. Case in point, I was trying to explain to someone that you do NOT post to the Pace. They wanted a 'verifiable source" Try proving a negative =:-O  I finally found something on a site about Icelandics...sigh.  Anyway, I can help walk you through this, but there are some bottom line rules that wikipedia insists upon.   Montanabw (talk) 23:18, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Local stock?
Hey Andreas-- you cut the bit on "local" horses out of the Lipizzan article, but left the line in the text: "Kladrub and Lipizza stock were bred to the native Karst (Kras) horses, and succeeding generations were crossed with the now-extinct Neapolitan breed from Italy and other Baroque horses of Spanish descent obtained from Spain, Germany, Denmark. " This is cited to http://www.lipizzan.org/aboutlipizzans.html   Which mentions the "Karst" horses, which I presume were the local horses in the area? Can you clarify this? (I presumed that the Lipizzan Association of North America was an authoritative site...) Thanks! Montanabw (talk) 16:57, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I forgot that, will do it now.--Andreas Hausberger 05:13, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Throw us a source for your change, as it contradicts the US source. (Not arguing, just saying we need a footnote...)  Montanabw (talk) 18:50, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Arabic?
By the way, how good is your Arabic? We're having a minor translation discussion at Vaquero and Talk:Vaquero over the etymology of the word and how to translate and spell (in the Roman alphabet) the Arabic words related to cattle. I don't read Arabic, so I'm rather useless to know if the other editor is correct or not. If you want to see if you can help there, I'd be grateful. Thanks Montanabw (talk) 17:02, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll look it up.--Andreas Hausberger 05:14, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Have one more question there, about how to write it in the Roman alphabet. (Seeing as how the news outlets can't seem to decide on Ghadafi, Khadafy, Khadaffi or Daffy Duck, I figure the same debate applies to how we spell out the words for cows... ?) Montanabw (talk) 18:37, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Welcome back!
Hi, you're back. On summer break? Good to see you around wikipedia. Let me know if you are working on any articles or projects and I'll lend a hand if I can. Over the fall and winter, I did an article that got me my first Four award, an interesting Arabian horse breeder named William Robinson Brown. Fascinating person. By the way, we'd still love to improve the Lipizzan article... Montanabw (talk) 18:18, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

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