User talk:Correctororthographix

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Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, or you can to ask for help on your talk page, and a volunteer should respond shortly. Again, welcome! Dialectric (talk) 23:57, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

A page you started (Pascal Lecocq) has been reviewed!
Thanks for creating Pascal Lecocq.

I have just reviewed the page, as a part of our page curation process.

A useful article. When you translate from a foreign language Wikipedia, you should add a "translation" template on the talk page. I have done this for this article, but you can add it next time you translate an article.

To reply, leave a comment here and ping me.

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Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:42, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

July 2022
Please do not add or change content, as you did at Moses, without citing a reliable source. Please review the guidelines at Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you. Doug Weller talk 08:50, 9 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Sorry, Doug, but you and the former page are wrong, I am right : please check yourself the original text mentioned in the note for the reference : Droge, page 18 ; it is easily accessible on line by searching "Droge homer moses mneves" (choose on Google Chrome the category "Books" for the response). Hecataeus, cited by Diodorus of Sicily, 1, 94, mentioned Mneves AND Moses, but does not confound them. That error was made by later authors, as it is very well explained par Droge on the same page 18.
 * So please, come back to my correction. Correctororthographix (talk) 13:02, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
 * But I restored Droge, and "This statement by Hecataeus was similar to statements made subsequently by Eupolemus.{{Sfn| Fragment 1 : "Moses was the first wise man, the first who imparted the alphabet to the Jews; the Phoenicians received it from the Jews, and the Greeks from the Phoenicians; also laws were first written by Moses for the Jews."}" has no reliable source. Doug Weller  talk 14:04, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Actual page as of 9th July 2022 10h45 AM East Time USA :
 * In Hecataeus[edit]
 * … Among the many accomplishments described by Hecataeus, Moses had founded cities, established a temple and religious cult, and issued laws:
 * After the establishment of settled life in Egypt in early times, which took place, according to the mythical account, in the period of the gods and heroes, the first... to persuade the multitudes to use written laws was Mneves [Moses], a man not only great of soul but also in his life the most public-spirited of all lawgivers whose names are recorded.
 * Droge also points out that this statement by Hecataeus was similar to statements made subsequently by Eupolemus.
 * MY COMMENT : the error is to add “[Moses]” after “Mneves” in the quote. If you read carefully Droge citing this ancient text page 18, Mneves is mentioned first, AND then Moses is mentioned as a different person. Droge explains, after that quote, that other writers have confounded Mneves and Moses.
 * So one must on that Wikipedia page : 1. remove the added mention of "[Moses]" after the name of Mneves in the middle of the quote ; 2. AND continue the quote until the real mention of Moses : the full text is in Droge, same page 18.
 * Best regards. Correctororthographix (talk) 14:46, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
 * But that isn't clear. As I said, "fragment" is unsourced, for a start. You've treated it as a citation. You can include it in a reference, but we need to know where it's from. Doug Weller  talk 15:05, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, I replaced a wrongly quoted modern reference by the original ancient text, because it is theoretically better to have the primary source than the secondary source, as they are called. Correctororthographix (talk) 15:23, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
 * See Droge: part of that says "founded cities, established a temple and religious cult, and issued laws. In the former passage Moses' name occurs in a list of the most famous lawgivers known to mankind. According to Hecataeus, who advocated a “pan-Egyptian" theory of the history of culture, the first of these lawgivers was the Egyptian king Mneves.
 * After the establishment of settled life in Egypt in early times, which took place, according to the mythical account, in the period of the gods and heroes, the first ... to persuade the multitudes to use written laws was Mneves, a man not only great of soul but also in his life the most public-spirited of all lawgivers whose names are recorded23.
 * Hecataeus' statement that Mneves was “the first to persuade the multitudes to use written laws" (neioai npidrov tyypditTois po/jok XprjoaoOai rd irXridrj) sounds strikingly similar to Eupolemus' claim that Moses was the first to give written laws to the Jews (vopovs re itpurov ypaipai Meoor\i> toic Iov6aioi<;). It is quite possible, as Wacholder suggests, that Eupolemus’ attribution of written laws to Moses was modeled on Hecataeus' account of Mneves, and intended to supercede it24. There is of course a certain
 * nrthnirranhiral re*emhlanre hetween the name* “Mn*es**	nr Mf.m-" sorry, OCR doesn't deal well with that print. Doug Weller  talk 17:01, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Droge says Mneves was the first person, he doesn't call him Moses. Doug Weller  talk 17:03, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Anyway, I've removed the text that Droge didn't write from two articles. Doug Weller  talk 11:44, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry, Doug : we are not there yet.
 * 1. You were right to remove the brackets with Moses' name from the quote, but, now, that quote mentioning only Mneves has nothing to do on the page, because it does not speak of Moses. Or you have to copy more of Droge's text.
 * 2. So, like it is now, the subsequent phrase "Droge also points out that this statement by Hecataeus was similar to statements made subsequently by Eupolemus." is no more understandable.
 * The facts, as very well explained by Droge p. 18 are :
 * 1. Hecataeus, who was Greek, spoke of Mneves and of Moses as lawgivers, but gave precedence to the Egyptian Mneves.
 * 2. Eupolemus, who was Jewish, said that Moses was the first lawgiver, prior to Mneves.
 * 3. Droge says that Eupolemus used for Moses the words that Hecataeus used for Mneves.
 * Please read again carefully Droge's page : I have a copy (image) of it for you if you cannot access it.
 * By the way, the reference for Droge in the note is not even complete, mentioning only the name and the page, and not the title of his book: Arthur J. Droge, "Homer or Moses? Early Christian Interpretations of the History of Culture", Mohr, Siebeck, 1989. Correctororthographix (talk) 13:13, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid I may not get to this today. Age, sweltering heat, Parkinson's and chemotherapy are enervating me. Does this help?
 * 8). The latter passage describes Moses as a wise and courageous leader who left Egypt and colonized Judaea. Among his many accomplishments, he founded cities, established a temple and religious cult, and issued laws. In the former passage Moses’ name occurs in a list of the most famous lawgivers known to mankind. According to Hecataeus, who advocated a “pan-Egyptian” theory of the history of culture, the first of these lawgivers was the Egyptian king Mneves.
 * After the establishment of settled life in Egypt in early times, which took place, according to the mythical account, in the period of the gods and heroes, the first ... to persuade the multitudes to use written laws was Mneves. a man not only great of soul but also in his life the most public-spirited of all lawgivers whose names are recorded23.
 * Hecataeus' statement that Mneves was “the first to persuade the multitudes to use written laws” (rreioai npcorov tyypavroit; vopotc xprjoaadai to. nXrjOrj) sounds strikingly similar to Eupolemus' claim that Moses was the first to give written laws to the Jews (vopovq re itpurov ypaipai Mcjorjf' rote loufiatotc). It is quite possible, as Wacholder suggests, that Eupolemus’ attribution of written laws to Moses was modeled on Hecataeus' account of Mneves, and intended to supercede it24. There is of course a certain orthographical resemblance between the names “Moses” (Muoqc or Mwu-otk) and “Mneves”(Mi/eui7c) so that Eupolemus could have argued that the latter was merely an Egyptian corruption of the former. As we shall see, the Jewish historian Artapanus identified Moses with the legendary poet-prophet Musaeus by using the same technique. Furthermore, in a similar attempt to prove the antiquity of Moses, an anonymous Christian apologist of the third century cited Diodorus 1.94.1 and substituted the name Moses for Mneves. Doug Weller  talk 15:38, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm out of this. For me life is literally too short to work on something I have so little interest in. Don't take this personally. Hopefully I'll beat this damn cancer and be able to cope with Parkinson's, but at almost 80.... Doug Weller  talk 09:21, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Dear Doug, I am very sorry to learn about your health problems and loss of energy ; I can understand it, of course. Thank you for all the good job you did for Wikipedia and for the progress of knowledge in our world. I will have time later today to look at your new text. Get as well as possible ; I hope you have family and friends around to take care of you ! With my best support, F. Correctororthographix (talk) 11:54, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm out of this. For me life is literally too short to work on something I have so little interest in. Don't take this personally. Hopefully I'll beat this damn cancer and be able to cope with Parkinson's, but at almost 80.... Doug Weller  talk 09:21, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Dear Doug, I am very sorry to learn about your health problems and loss of energy ; I can understand it, of course. Thank you for all the good job you did for Wikipedia and for the progress of knowledge in our world. I will have time later today to look at your new text. Get as well as possible ; I hope you have family and friends around to take care of you ! With my best support, F. Correctororthographix (talk) 11:54, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

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