User talk:Cowdy001/Archive 3

This is an archive of my discussion page for the year 2016. Please leave new messages on the current talk page. Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 03:48, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

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Port Augusta West
There is a single edit to click "thank" on out of your 27 edits on Port Augusta West, so I'll say "thank you" here instead. I think we've done a credible job between us. I started the article because I objected to this edit that used a piped link to Port Augusta with the edit comment  Augusta Highway intersection is in Port Augusta West, per talk. --Scott Davis Talk 04:24, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi ScottDavis, I forgot to thank you for creating the article. I was a bit surprised that there was no article for this suburb. I had intended to do it myself with a draft that I started in mid November 2015 and which I was going to finish this week. Instead, I think I will finish the two drafts re the Middleback Ranges.  BTW, my draft is the source of the 27 edits mentioned above - I have two more sections to add to the article which I will do in the near future.  I also have some questions and comment re "locality" articles which I will post on your talk page in the near future. Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 10:07, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Jetfins
Hi Cowdy. Would you have a think about, please? The MOS at Manual of Style/Text formatting advises that bold text should be used "for terms ... at the beginning of a section of an article, which are the subjects of redirects to the article or section (e.g. sub-topics of the article's topic, rather than the synonyms as already boldfaced per the above)" Jetfins is indeed a redirect to Swimfin, so ought to be in boldface in the opening sentence of that section per the principle of least astonishment. Cheers --RexxS (talk) 03:09, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Locality lists
Hey, thank you so much for the work you've done on fixing some of the mangled locality lists for South Australian LGAs - I was horrified when I noticed how wrong many of them were, and was quite relieved to find Whyalla, Port Augusta and the Northern Areas Council already done. I was wondering if you might mind though if we were to trim the references back to the MapViewer itself: in the absence of MapViewer providing useful permanent links, manually referencing each individual locality is very cumbersome on the editorial end, looks like serious reference overload in the articles, and doesn't actually reference that the list is complete and that one or two haven't been missed along the way. All the relevant details are pretty easily verifiable in MapViewer with just the link, it would save an epic amount of time on your part, and I feel like it might be a better solution - thoughts? The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk)
 * Hi, can you please give an example of what a reference will look like in an article? By the way, I have also done the councils for Kangaroo Island and Yorke Peninsula.  Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 01:59, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Dowlingville
Thanks for making that article. George Pyke Dowling Whittaker was my wife's great-great-grandfather, so she intends to try and get the family history book from her parents and add a bit more info about him and the town. There is a connection to the SS Admella, as GPD Whittaker came from USA to Australia after a relative died when it sank. We have added a couple of photos from one of our "dead relative search" trips. --Scott Davis Talk 21:49, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Localities
Lovely to see so many new locality articles popping up! However, I'm not sure the development plan information is overly useful: discussing the zoning of the locality in the same language as the development plan doesn't tell you much but sure does make eyes glaze over.

To use the example of Rogues Point, copying the Development Plan means you get "As of 2014, the land use within the locality is divided into the following two zones that are parallel to the coastline - a strip of land zoned as “coastal open space” which is reserved both for community use and as a buffer against sea level rise, and a strip of land zoned as “settlement” which consists of an area of low density residential and associated buildings." What that really just tells you is that there's a small village there and an area of coastal open space, which can be much more clearly said in plain English and cited to any number of things.

It also leads to some overuse of "as of 2014" type language: I have little doubt that this is still exactly the same now, it's hardly something that changes on a regular basis, and any mapping service (including the government ones) could cite the obvious in an up to date way if necessary. We need "as of 2014" language for things like the local mayor that might well have changed by the next time someone edits the article in any depth, but the basic layout of the town isn't going to, nor will rural areas stop being economically based on primary production.

I am kinda dubious about using development plans as sources generally unless they say something interesting - I think the one place I've used them was in Andrews, South Australia, because it simultaneously laid out the primary significance of the locality and succinctly explained the planning priorities around the locality's historical centre; sticking anything it said about the exact zoning of the farmland all around it would just have made readers nod off. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 02:58, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

List of Cities and Towns in South Australia
Hi Cowdy, apologies if this is not the right way to get in touch...since you've regularly edited the above page, just thought you'd like to be aware of its nomination for deletion. Cheers Hiraffe (talk) 11:37, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, I am aware of this. Thanks for taking the time to make contact. Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 19:04, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

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Dudley
Great work at District Council of Dudley! It's so nice to see fully fleshed-out articles coming along on these LGAs, and that was a particularly good one. Especially pleased to see one that doesn't have to stop at 1936!

How did you manage to get your hands on a copy of the 1986 Civic Record? It's the one missing source I can't get access to and I'd love to some more up-to-date info get included on the councils that were still around then. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 10:23, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The 1986 Civic Record is available as a reference book (i.e. not for borrowing) at one of the branches of my local council library. Unfortunately, I have not been able to borrow a copy via the One card network. The content for the DC of Kingscote in the 1986 Civic Record is more comprehensive than the content for the DC of Dudley - I will attempt to finish the article for Kingscote in the near future.  Also, I see if I can copy the TOC from 1986 Civic Record, scan it and paste it here for you to read.  Regards  Cowdy001 (talk) 11:36, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Much appreciated - I really wish it was digitised. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 12:43, 20 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Hey, no worries if you don't have the time, but is there any chance you could see what the 1986 Record has to say for District Council of Kanyaka-Quorn and District Council of Light (1977-1996)? Of all the ones I've done, they were the two that could most benefit from that because they did exist in 1986 but didn't exist in 1936 and I could find absolutely bugger all on either of them besides dates of creation and abolition. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 04:19, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I will have a look next week and report back. Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 10:08, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Could I be a huge pain and please ask for one more? I intend working back on the Copper Coast municipalities soon, but District Council of Northern Yorke Peninsula falls into that dead zone between 1954 and the 1980s where I can't find when it was created or exactly what merged into it. Even just a creation date and the amalgamating councils would be terrific there. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 06:58, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi Drovers Wife, I was able to visit the library branch yesterday and made the following notes for the LGAs that you requested:

District Council of Light (based in Freeling)

Page 288 - founded 1 March 1977 from Freeling and Mudla Wirra (operated as a combined council until 1 July 1977)

Page 289 - chairmen - Clarence Kenneth Tremlett (1977), Brian Eric Anders OAM (1977-83), Doanld William Barkla (1983-)

Page 290
 * Area - 662 km2
 * Population - about 5500 (1986)
 * Primary industry - cereal production, piggeries & poultry farms in the West & North, market gardens & stud sheep in the South, and vineyards & orchards in the East.

District Council of Kanyaka-Quorn (based in Quorn)

Page 235 - declared on 1 April 1969

Page 236-237 - chairmen: John Denton French (1969-75), Frank Jesse Flowers OAM (1975-1979), Roy James Deakin (1979 - )

Page 237
 * Area - 2198 km2
 * Population - 1500 (1300 living in Quorn)
 * Primary industry - cereal production followed by wool, pigs and cattle
 * Secondary industry - residential area for workers commuting to/from Port Augusta to work at Australian National (AN) and Electricity Trust of South Australia (ETSA)

District Council of Northern Yorke Peninsula (this appears to have been based in Kadina)

Page 407 - formed from the Corporate Town of Moonta and the District Council of Kadina on 1 July 1984. Consisted of five wards - Kadina, Moonta Rural, Moonta Township, Paskeville and Wallaroo.

Page 408 - chairman - Graham Dale Morphett (1984- )

Page 409- Area - 748 km2
 * Key towns - Kadina, Moonta (inc. Moonta Bay & Port Hughes), North Beach and Paskeville
 * Population - 6060 (1981 census)
 * Primary industry - cereal grain production (i.e. barley, wheat), wool, fishing (i.e. whiting, garfish, snapper, shark, salmon, ruff, squid, abalone).

I also have the following comments about the 1986 Civic Record Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 12:12, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
 * it is a large book, i.e. has almost 700 pages
 * there are maps on pages 20-22 showing the layout of the LGAs
 * there is a chapter on the predeccessor to the OCA
 * It has an appendix containing a 'genealogy' of the 125 councils in existence in 1986 (starting on page 674) which has a list of expired LGA names which were not passed on and a number of pages of 'bar' charts showing the evolution of a LGA from a DC to Town etc and when it merged etc. The major source for this appendix was the following paper - Robbins, John & Jane, A Glossary of Local Government Areas in South Australia 1840-1985, Occasional Paper No. 1, Historical Association of South Australia, 1986.  I had a quick look online and could not find anything about the authors, the paper or the HASA


 * Thank you so much. This is fantastically helpful! The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 11:08, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

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Vivonne Bay
Feel free to undo my revert if the article is moved from Vivonne Bay, South Australia to Vivonne Bay - Evad37 &#91;talk] 07:57, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

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Land use
Hey, if you get a chance, is there any chance you could add some information on land use from the development plans to some of the articles on rural areas around Moonta that I've been breaking out? There's a few articles that could use a bit about what the locality is currently used for, and I looked at the plans myself but unfortunately am not blessed with the ability to make any sense of them at all... The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 11:26, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi, I can do this but can you list which articles you like me to do? Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 00:30, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I trawled through your contributions and found the following - Moonta Mines, Kooroona, Cross Roads, East Moonta, North Yelta and Boors Plains. I have added to North Yelta and Boors Plains and will do Moonta Mines next.  Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 23:13, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Terrific - North Yelta and Boor Plains are great. It's really useful to have that source for its modern farming usage as opposed to its mining past, so thank you! Might not be worth doing Moonta Mines since the majority of the locality is one gigantic heritage site but the others would be great. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 02:10, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Drover's Wife, I have just done Yelta, East Moonta and Cross Roads. I have include a red link for Moonta Mines State Heritage Area in the previous edits which would probably be a useful article as it would tie together information spread over six localities as well as information missing from the articles for the six localities.  Also, the article about the South Australian Heritage Register needs expansion to include the subject of 'State Heritage Areas' amongst other things.  I will have a look at both Moonta and Kooroona next.  Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 22:19, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Drover's Wife, (if you still watching this page), I have added content to the redirects for Hamley and Paramatta. I also upgraded both District Council of the Copper Coast and Moonta to include content re the 'urban areas' located within the District Council and to specifically describe the one associated with Moonta.   Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 05:17, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much for doing Hamley and Paramatta - as those localities were basically entirely about their respective mines (and so not really my thing), they were at the bottom of my list and I'd putting them off for a while. I undid the urban area edit in the Moonta article because the "description" section was unnecessary (that's what the lead section is for!) and the urban areas section paragraph was strangely worded - it wasn't really clear as to whether the Moonta suburbs were part of that urban area or all the urban areas and the cited source doesn't contain anything relevant about the urban area. It also lost the bit about the suburbs as being distinct historic localities or hamlets (which I think was important because it goes to why all these tiny places still separately exist). (I also forgot - talking about urban centres to cover all of the 12 localities gets a bit confusing alongside the paragraph above it about the ABS population data - which defines the "urban centre" completely differently.) The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 15:42, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

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Dab pages
Hallo Cowdy001, I noticed your edit to the Haines dab page while checking my watch list, and nearly deleted it as a hoax (I was editing on mobile, which makes exploration difficult), when I found no mention of "Haines" in the article on Kangaroo Island. Exploring further I found a mention of it in Kangaroo Island Council, which I've now linked. Please don't add items to disambiguation pages without adding a blue link to a page which mentions the topic, per MOS:DAB. I see from your contributions that you've added red links to a couple more dab pages, so please check that you've got a blue link on each of those. Thanks. Pam D  07:32, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

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SAHR duplicates
Hi Cowdy, a couple of days ago you wrote an article on some locality (which I can't for the life of me remember which) which purportedly had two very vaguely described heritage-listed eucalyptus distillery ruins. I was a bit suspicious at the time that the SAHR was duplicates because they sounded exactly the same and had no identifying details that would confirm that they weren't the same place, and only one had an address, but since they showed up in different places on MapViewer assumed they must be different places. I've just discovered a definite duplicate listing in the register for the main former National Trust Museum at Mundulla in Tatiara DC and now I'm thinking that it maybe was a duplicate the other day and the separate MapViewer listing might have been an approximate location based on the locality they had in the system. Thoughts? The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 10:21, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
 * The article that you are thinking about is Cygnet River, South Australia. I had the same thoughts but the online register has two separate entries.  This contrasts with single entries that I have looked at where there is more than one red polygon on MapViewer.  This seems to occur when an entry is for a place that consists of more than one part, i.e. a complex of buildings spread over a large area, where protection has only been given to particular items of human origin rather the whole area possibly due to the principles in use for arguing significance.   With respect to the building(s) in Tatiara, the register has two entries created on two separate dates.  I had a look on GoogleMaps using Streetview.  There appears to one building consisting of one part being of masonry construction and the other part being of lightweight construction finished with either metal or timber.  One listing seems to be associated with the masonry part while the other seems to be associated with the ‘lightweight’ part.  It is possible that the two parts were separate and have been joined together sometime during the past.  I would suggest that there have been two museums that have operated at different times.  I also would seriously doubt that there is an error in the register for a range of reasons.  The only source of clarity will be the Tatiara Heritage Survey (2004) which is only available as hardcopy - please refer Heritage Surveys held in the State Heritage Unit and the legal deposit of the State Library of South Australia.  Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 23:00, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

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Canunda
Thanks for all the work you've been doing lately with unentangling localities from overlapping reserves/etc. Any chance you could maybe do Canunda, South Australia? It currently redirects to the National Park, but half of it (including the heritage site I wanted to add) isn't in the national park, and you're better at these sorts of topics than me. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 03:32, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi The Drover&#39;s Wife, Yes, I am working on that, but I need to fix up both Lake Bonney articles (i.e. the naming of the two lakes) in the first instance as the article about the lake in Canunda has been given an 'incorrect' name. Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 04:57, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I had a quick look at the Lake Bonney problem and decided that this can be fixed later. So, Canunda, South Australia is ready for your attention.  Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 07:13, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
 * You are brilliant. Ta! The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 09:25, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

What did you mean by residents being "excavated" at Vivonne Bay? The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 10:17, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Can you not with the redirecting of past LGAs to present ones? I've put a ton of work in to try and flesh out those articles, and it's completely disheartening when I have to disentangle the legitimate redirects from the ones that should be redlinks - it's a totally unnecessary cleanup job that puts me off creating them. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 08:47, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

Copying within Wikipedia requires proper attribution
Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from Coobowie into Coobowie Aquatic Reserve. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g.,. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted copied template on the talk pages of the source and destination. The attribution has been provided for this situation, but if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, please provide attribution for that duplication. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. If you are the sole author of the prose that was moved, attribution is not required. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 13:39, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Looks like Cowdy100 was sole author of the moved prose, so no attribution needed. No problem. &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 15:57, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Diannaa,

Thanks for your message and the included advice. I advise that I am the author of the prose moved between the two articles - this was originally added on 5 October 2014. I am also the author for the prose moved to the following articles - American River Aquatic Reserve, Bales Beach Aquatic Reserve, Goose Island Aquatic Reserve, Point Labatt Aquatic Reserve, Seal Bay Aquatic Reserve and Troubridge Hill Aquatic Reserve. I have added a ‘copied’ template to both Talk: Goose Island (South Australia) and Talk: Goose Island Conservation Park in respect to moved content. Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 11:08, 11 October 2016 (UTC)